DPD Dispatcher Alterations and Tippit Murder

[Jim Hargrove]

A new article by John Armstrong shows how the FBI altered DPD dispatch records to change the time of the shooting of J.D. Tippit from 1:10 PM to 1:16 PM, giving Oswald just enough time to walk nearly a mile from his rooming house to 10th & Patton.

https://harveyandlee.net/DPD/Transcripts.html

 

[Sean Coleman]

Great article, makes total sense.

Am on the fence regarding the whole two Oswalds thing, not read the book, should do before passing judgement. Certainly JA should be saluted for his research.

…beginulate the commencication of the debunkation of this theory DVP etc., seems pretty solid to me.

ps. new years res is to use bigger words so as to appear hirsute. Or erudite. Not sure which.

 

[Joe Bauer]

Speaking of Dallas Police Dispatchers:

Retired Dallas officer Billy Grammer remembers the call …

 

WebGerry May Nov 18, 2018 Billy Grammer talks about his visit from Jack Ruby from his home near his native Longview, Texas. The nation marks 55 …

 

[David Von Pein]

We can argue forever about the exact time that Officer Tippit was shot. There will always be disagreement amongst LNers and CTers concerning that point. But it doesn't really make a whole lot of difference precisely when Tippit was shot, because regardless of what the exact time was, we KNOW (or at least I do) that Tippit's murderer was positively (and beyond all possible doubt) Lee Harvey Oswald.

And we can know this for a fact not only due to the many witnesses who positively identified Oswald as either Tippit's one and only killer or as the one and only gunman who fled the scene of the crime....but also due to the even-more-definitive ballistics evidence that Oswald was kind enough to leave behind at the scene of the murder---which consisted of those four bullet shell casings that positively came from the same gun that was used to kill Officer Tippit, which was also the same gun that Oswald still had in his very own hands just 35 minutes after Tippit was slain.

Yes, virtually all CTers will argue that those bullet shells were faked or planted or switched to incriminate the resident "patsy", but when asked what proof the conspiracy theorists possess to support such an extraordinary and vile allegation, the silence becomes overwhelming. In short, no such evidence exists and every reasonable person knows it.

And therefore....

 

Edited January 2 by David Von Pein

[Donald Willis]

58 minutes ago, Sean Coleman said:

Great article, makes total sense.

Am on the fence regarding the whole two Oswalds thing, not read the book, should do before passing judgement. Certainly JA should be saluted for his research.

…beginulate the commencication of the debunkation of this theory DVP etc., seems pretty solid to me.

ps. new years res is to use bigger words so as to appear hirsute. Or erudite. Not sure which.

 

I was excited by this article, at first.  Because I saw on my copy of page 19 of CE 705, two handwritten corrections:  After "10-4, 603 and 602", "1:19" is the first correction--the "0" becomes a "9".   The second correction is on the last line of page19:  "10-4, 605, 1:19" is how it is again corrected, by hand--the "9" over the apparent "0".  Big trouble in Trinity River City...

Fortunately or unfortunately, I have a tape of the radio logs.  And in both instances, the dispatcher clearly says "1:19".  As Rankin guessed, they were, then, apparently just typographical errors.  If David Von Pein had done a little research, then, he could have eschewed his usual All Arrows Point to Oswald at 10th & Patton pontificating and cut to the chase.  I still firmly believe--based mainly on the treatment of witnesses WW Scoggins and Cecil McWatters and, lesserly, Mrs M & the Davises--that Oswald did not shoot Tippit.    (JFK is another matter.)

I'm afraid the only way out (or in) on this particular (radio log) evidence would be to show that the logs themselves were doctored, and I'm afraid, again, that the actual logs (not the transcriptions) are, I believe, about the only trustworthy pieces of evidence re 11/22/63...

 

[Jim Hargrove]

1 hour ago, Donald Willis said:

I was excited by this article, at first.  Because I saw on my copy of page 19 of CE 705, two handwritten corrections:  After "10-4, 603 and 602", "1:19" is the first correction--the "0" becomes a "9".   The second correction is on the last line of page19:  "10-4, 605, 1:19" is how it is again corrected, by hand--the "9" over the apparent "0".  Big trouble in Trinity River City...

Fortunately or unfortunately, I have a tape of the radio logs.  And in both instances, the dispatcher clearly says "1:19".  As Rankin guessed, they were, then, apparently just typographical errors.  If David Von Pein had done a little research, then, he could have eschewed his usual All Arrows Point to Oswald at 10th & Patton pontificating and cut to the chase.  I still firmly believe--based mainly on the treatment of witnesses WW Scoggins and Cecil McWatters and, lesserly, Mrs M & the Davises--that Oswald did not shoot Tippit.    (JFK is another matter.)

I'm afraid the only way out (or in) on this particular (radio log) evidence would be to show that the logs themselves were doctored, and I'm afraid, again, that the actual logs (not the transcriptions) are, I believe, about the only trustworthy pieces of evidence re 11/22/63...

 

Thanks for the specific reply, Mr. Willis.  You raise an interesting point, so let's look at a few brief excerpts from John's article: 

In early December the Secret Service, Dallas Police and FBI agents began listening to the original vinyl dictabelt and vinyl disc recordings, but their attention was focused events and situations related to the assassination of President Kennedy, and was not focused on the murder of Officer Tippit.

...

In early 1964 James Bowles made a tape recorded copiy of channel 1 and channel 2. Bowles kept one copy for himself and gave one copy to the FBI. FBI personnel listened to the DPD recordings and likely made transcripts of conversations from both channel 1 and channel 2. It seems that little attention, if any, was given to the Tippit murder.

...

After the Secret Service gave the vinyl dictabelts and vinyl disks to the FBI we know they were copied onto a tape recorder. A tape recording could be played over and over without degradation, whereas the vinyl dictabelts and vinyl disks were degraded when played over and over. Changes cannot be made to the vinyl dictabelts or disks. However, if conversations from the vinyl belts and vinyl disks are recorded onto a tape recorder, changes to the new tape can be easily deleted and added. The new tape, with alterations, can the be played back onto new vinyl belts and new vinyl disks. 

If it seems a stretch that the FBI would go to such lengths to alter the original dictabelts/disks, consider how much evidence there is that Tippit was shot right around 1:10 pm. More from John's article:

Two minutes later, at 1:10 PM, Mr. Temple Bowley arrived on site and grabbed the microphone from Benavides. Bowley was able to report the shooting of a police officer to the police dispatcher, which was recorded by the vinyl dictabelts from channel 1.

Later that afternoon Bowley gave a statement to the Dallas Police and said that when he arrived at the scene he, "looked at my watch and it said 1:10 PM." Bowley's watch and the recording made by the police Dictabelt machine reported the time of Bowley's contact with the police dispatcher as 1:10 PM.

Are all the following 1:10 entries supposed to be typographical errors?  Notice how all the original Dallas police transcripts (CE 705) indicate 1:10 pm, while the revised FBI transcripts report a 1:18 time.  Again from John's article:

1) The original Dallas police transcript (CE 705) shows the dispatcher's contact with Dudley Hughes ambulance 602-code 5 at 1:10 PM.  The revised FBI report (CE 1974) changed the dispatcher's contact with Dudley Hughes at 1:18 P.M.

2) The original Dallas police transcript  (CE 705) shows the dispatcher's contact with Baylor ambulance, 603-code 5, at 1:10 PM. The revised FBI report (CE 1974)  changed the dispatcher’s contact with Baylor to 1:18 PM.

3) The original Dallas police transcript (CE 705) shows the dispatcher's contact with Dudley Hughes' ambulance code 602-code 6 arrival time at 10th & Patton at 1:10 PM. The revised FBI report (CE 1974)  changed the dispatchers contact with Dudley Hughes to 1:18 PM.

4) The original Dallas police transcript (CE 705) shows the dispatcher's contact with the Dudley Hughes and with the Baylor ambulance at 1:10 PM. The revised FBI transcript report (CE 1974) changed the dispatchers contact to 1:18 PM.

5) The original Dallas police transcript shows the dispatcher's contact with the Dudley Hughes ambulance 602-code 6 (out at destination) at 1:10 P.M. The revised FBI transcript report changed the dispatchers contact with Dudley Hughes to 1:18 PM.

6) The original Dallas police transcript shows the dispatcher's contact with ambulance 605-code 5 (en route) at 1:10 PM. The revised FBI transcript report changed the dispatchers contact with ambulance 605 from 1:10 PM to 1:18 PM.

7) The original Dallas police transcript (CE 705) shows the dispatcher's contact with ambulance 605-code 5 (en route) at 1:10 PM. The revised FBI transcript report (CE 1974) changed the dispatcher’s contact with ambulance 605-code 5 from 1:10 PM to 1:19 PM.

😎 The original Dallas police transcript (CE 705) shows the dispatcher's contact with Dudley Hughes ambulance 602 at 1:10 PM. Ambulance driver Jason Butler tells the dispatcher, “from out here on 10th St., 500 block. This police officer’s just shot. I think he’s dead.” The revised FBI transcript report (CE1974) changed the dispatchers contact with Dudley Hughes from 1:10 PM to 1:19 P.M.

Thanks again for the reply.  I would love to listen to the audio of the DPD conversations.  Do you know a way that I could do that?
 

[Donald Willis]

1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Thanks for the specific reply, Mr. Willis.  You raise an interesting point, so let's look at a few brief excerpts from John's article: 

In early December the Secret Service, Dallas Police and FBI agents began listening to the original vinyl dictabelt and vinyl disc recordings, but their attention was focused events and situations related to the assassination of President Kennedy, and was not focused on the murder of Officer Tippit.

...

In early 1964 James Bowles made a tape recorded copiy of channel 1 and channel 2. Bowles kept one copy for himself and gave one copy to the FBI. FBI personnel listened to the DPD recordings and likely made transcripts of conversations from both channel 1 and channel 2. It seems that little attention, if any, was given to the Tippit murder.

...

After the Secret Service gave the vinyl dictabelts and vinyl disks to the FBI we know they were copied onto a tape recorder. A tape recording could be played over and over without degradation, whereas the vinyl dictabelts and vinyl disks were degraded when played over and over. Changes cannot be made to the vinyl dictabelts or disks. However, if conversations from the vinyl belts and vinyl disks are recorded onto a tape recorder, changes to the new tape can be easily deleted and added. The new tape, with alterations, can the be played back onto new vinyl belts and new vinyl disks. 

If it seems a stretch that the FBI would go to such lengths to alter the original dictabelts/disks, consider how much evidence there is that Tippit was shot right around 1:10 pm. More from John's article:

Two minutes later, at 1:10 PM, Mr. Temple Bowley arrived on site and grabbed the microphone from Benavides. Bowley was able to report the shooting of a police officer to the police dispatcher, which was recorded by the vinyl dictabelts from channel 1.

Later that afternoon Bowley gave a statement to the Dallas Police and said that when he arrived at the scene he, "looked at my watch and it said 1:10 PM." Bowley's watch and the recording made by the police Dictabelt machine reported the time of Bowley's contact with the police dispatcher as 1:10 PM.

Are all the following 1:10 entries supposed to be typographical errors?  Notice how all the original Dallas police transcripts (CE 705) indicate 1:10 pm, while the revised FBI transcripts report a 1:18 time.  Again from John's article:

1) The original Dallas police transcript (CE 705) shows the dispatcher's contact with Dudley Hughes ambulance 602-code 5 at 1:10 PM.  The revised FBI report (CE 1974) changed the dispatcher's contact with Dudley Hughes at 1:18 P.M.

2) The original Dallas police transcript  (CE 705) shows the dispatcher's contact with Baylor ambulance, 603-code 5, at 1:10 PM. The revised FBI report (CE 1974)  changed the dispatcher’s contact with Baylor to 1:18 PM.

3) The original Dallas police transcript (CE 705) shows the dispatcher's contact with Dudley Hughes' ambulance code 602-code 6 arrival time at 10th & Patton at 1:10 PM. The revised FBI report (CE 1974)  changed the dispatchers contact with Dudley Hughes to 1:18 PM.

4) The original Dallas police transcript (CE 705) shows the dispatcher's contact with the Dudley Hughes and with the Baylor ambulance at 1:10 PM. The revised FBI transcript report (CE 1974) changed the dispatchers contact to 1:18 PM.

5) The original Dallas police transcript shows the dispatcher's contact with the Dudley Hughes ambulance 602-code 6 (out at destination) at 1:10 P.M. The revised FBI transcript report changed the dispatchers contact with Dudley Hughes to 1:18 PM.

6) The original Dallas police transcript shows the dispatcher's contact with ambulance 605-code 5 (en route) at 1:10 PM. The revised FBI transcript report changed the dispatchers contact with ambulance 605 from 1:10 PM to 1:18 PM.

7) The original Dallas police transcript (CE 705) shows the dispatcher's contact with ambulance 605-code 5 (en route) at 1:10 PM. The revised FBI transcript report (CE 1974) changed the dispatcher’s contact with ambulance 605-code 5 from 1:10 PM to 1:19 PM.

😎 The original Dallas police transcript (CE 705) shows the dispatcher's contact with Dudley Hughes ambulance 602 at 1:10 PM. Ambulance driver Jason Butler tells the dispatcher, “from out here on 10th St., 500 block. This police officer’s just shot. I think he’s dead.” The revised FBI transcript report (CE1974) changed the dispatchers contact with Dudley Hughes from 1:10 PM to 1:19 P.M.

Thanks again for the reply.  I would love to listen to the audio of the DPD conversations.  Do you know a way that I could do that?
 

i might have been able to help you out there.  I had two copies of the tapes, but the one I started using again today started coming out of its cassette.  So now I have only one.  And my recorder is breaking down too--it won't fast forward or rewind... I was lucky my 2nd tape worked, but for how long?  I got both of them from Dave Dix, in Minneapolis, about 25 years ago.  I see that he died in 2007.  He got them from a public library.  All bad news.

Minor:  Bowley's "1:10" County affidavit (not a DPD report) was made out on Dec. 2nd, not that same afternoon.  

All those "1:10" to "1:18" "changes were really just the two dispatcher-noted time changes on the page.  That is, every transmission on page 19 is, yes, in effect, "changed" by those two time changes, including innocuous ones like "What's that address on Jefferson?"  That is, the time of each transmission was not changed, individually--just the dispatcher's time notifications, the two of them.  And if you accept that the two changes on page 19 were not just typos, then Bowley's call to the dispatcher ends at about 1:10 and begins--on page 18, about 1:16.  That is, if actual changes were made on page 19, changes would also have to have been made on page 18, and there's still a "1:16" there.  

Finally, if disk-to-tape-back-to-disk alterations had been made here, why didn't the DPD/SS make alterations in transmissions like the 12:37 "second window from the end" one?  They could have changed "second window" to "end window" and the call number of the cop who sent it ("22") to the number of the cop who falsely claimed to have sent it ("127" I think).  And Sgt. Hill's call from Oak Cliff re an automatic is still there for all to hear...

 

 

[Donald Willis]

10 minutes ago, Donald Willis said:

i might have been able to help you out there.  I had two copies of the tapes, but the one I started using again today started coming out of its cassette.  So now I have only one.  And my recorder is breaking down too--it won't fast forward or rewind... I was lucky my 2nd tape worked, but for how long?  I got both of them from Dave Dix, in Minneapolis, about 25 years ago.  I see that he died in 2007.  He got them from a public library.  All bad news.

Minor:  Bowley's "1:10" County affidavit (not a DPD report) was made out on Dec. 2nd, not that same afternoon.  

All those "1:10" to "1:18" "changes were really just the two dispatcher-noted time changes on the page.  That is, every transmission on page 19 is, yes, in effect, "changed" by those two time changes, including innocuous ones like "What's that address on Jefferson?"  That is, the time of each transmission was not changed, individually--just the dispatcher's time notifications, the two of them.  And if you accept that the two changes on page 19 were not just typos, then Bowley's call to the dispatcher ends at about 1:10 and begins--on page 18, about 1:16.  That is, if actual changes were made on page 19, changes would also have to have been made on page 18, and there's still a "1:16" there.  

Finally, if disk-to-tape-back-to-disk alterations had been made here, why didn't the DPD/SS make alterations in transmissions like the 12:37 "second window from the end" one?  They could have changed "second window" to "end window" and the call number of the cop who sent it ("22") to the number of the cop who falsely claimed to have sent it ("127" I think).  And Sgt. Hill's call from Oak Cliff re an automatic is still there for all to hear...

 

 

I should add that Armstrong's article is beautifully reasoned, as far as it goes, which wasn't quite far enough...

[Jonathan Cohen]

1 hour ago, Donald Willis said:

I should add that Armstrong's article is beautifully reasoned, as far as it goes, which wasn't quite far enough...

And thank you for debunking it!

[Jim Hargrove]

12 hours ago, Donald Willis said:

i might have been able to help you out there.  I had two copies of the tapes, but the one I started using again today started coming out of its cassette.  So now I have only one.  And my recorder is breaking down too--it won't fast forward or rewind... I was lucky my 2nd tape worked, but for how long?  I got both of them from Dave Dix, in Minneapolis, about 25 years ago.  I see that he died in 2007.  He got them from a public library.  All bad news.

Minor:  Bowley's "1:10" County affidavit (not a DPD report) was made out on Dec. 2nd, not that same afternoon.  

All those "1:10" to "1:18" "changes were really just the two dispatcher-noted time changes on the page.  That is, every transmission on page 19 is, yes, in effect, "changed" by those two time changes, including innocuous ones like "What's that address on Jefferson?"  That is, the time of each transmission was not changed, individually--just the dispatcher's time notifications, the two of them.  And if you accept that the two changes on page 19 were not just typos, then Bowley's call to the dispatcher ends at about 1:10 and begins--on page 18, about 1:16.  That is, if actual changes were made on page 19, changes would also have to have been made on page 18, and there's still a "1:16" there.  

Finally, if disk-to-tape-back-to-disk alterations had been made here, why didn't the DPD/SS make alterations in transmissions like the 12:37 "second window from the end" one?  They could have changed "second window" to "end window" and the call number of the cop who sent it ("22") to the number of the cop who falsely claimed to have sent it ("127" I think).  And Sgt. Hill's call from Oak Cliff re an automatic is still there for all to hear...

Thanks for continuing this discussion….

According to the following two documents, Tippit was declared dead at Method Hospital by Dr. Richard Liguori at 1:15 pm (not 1:22). 

How was Tippit declared dead before he was shot?  

Note that R A Davenport reported, “In route met the ambulance carrying the wounded officer to Methodist Hospital.  We assisted in getting the officer to the Emergency Room.” And observed the doctors and nurses trying to bring the Officer back to life.  At 1:15 pm Dr. Richard Liquori pronounced him dead.”

All this happened a minute BEFORE Tippit was shot?  

What makes MUCH more sense is the 1:10 pm time frame noted on those original DPD transcripts (CE 705) and confirmed by  T.F. Bowley, who said he looked at his watch, which read 1:10 pm.

Your info about the sorry state of the audio recordings is appreciated. The voice clips need to be carefully analyzed, and I know of no way to do it.  A shame.
 

[Michael Kalin]

15 hours ago, Donald Willis said:

i might have been able to help you out there.  I had two copies of the tapes, but the one I started using again today started coming out of its cassette.  So now I have only one.  And my recorder is breaking down too--it won't fast forward or rewind... I was lucky my 2nd tape worked, but for how long?  I got both of them from Dave Dix, in Minneapolis, about 25 years ago.  I see that he died in 2007.  He got them from a public library.  All bad news.

Donald, some good news -- my cassette dubbing deck still works! At your service anytime.

In the meantime perhaps your tape can clarify a point raised in the article, which attributes two unacknowledged "78" transmissions around 1:08 to Benavides. This is based on CE705, but CE1974 attributes the first to "58" and the second to "488," indicating both are "garbled" [855]. Kimbrough/Shearer also attributes the first to "58" [#768] but omits the second altogether.

Can you help clear this up?

Edited January 3 by Michael Kalin

[Donald Willis]

10 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Thanks for continuing this discussion….

According to the following two documents, Tippit was declared dead at Method Hospital by Dr. Richard Liguori at 1:15 pm (not 1:22). 

How was Tippit declared dead before he was shot?  

Note that R A Davenport reported, “In route met the ambulance carrying the wounded officer to Methodist Hospital.  We assisted in getting the officer to the Emergency Room.” And observed the doctors and nurses trying to bring the Officer back to life.  At 1:15 pm Dr. Richard Liquori pronounced him dead.”

All this happened a minute BEFORE Tippit was shot?  

What makes MUCH more sense is the 1:10 pm time frame noted on those original DPD transcripts (CE 705) and confirmed by  T.F. Bowley, who said he looked at his watch, which read 1:10 pm.

Your info about the sorry state of the audio recordings is appreciated. The voice clips need to be carefully analyzed, and I know of no way to do it.  A shame.
 

I'm open to the prospect of Tippit having been shot earlier than 1:15.  It would help my own timeline for Oswald's  arrival in Oak Cliff.  Heaven and earth (or at least earth, or parts of Dallas) were moved to discredit McWatters' original affidavit, in which McW has O on the bus all the way to Marsalis, in Oak Cliff.  Why would DPD discredit McW unless that meant that O got to Oak C too late to have shot Tippit?  Yes, this eliminates Whaley from the picture, and puts O's return to the boarding house forward maybe 20 minutes.  

[James DiEugenio]

Donald, what do you men by the last 8 words specifically in time?

[Donald Willis]

14 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Donald, what do you men by the last 8 words specifically in time?

1:20.  If Oswald took the bus all the way to Oak Cliff, he would have arrived about 1:20, according to Joseph Backes, in his article "Oswald and McWatters' Bus".  I forget if he explained how he got that time.  At any rate, the principal evidence for Oswald's too-late arrival in Oak Cliff are the measures which were taken to discredit pretty much every word in McW's affidavit.  One of his statements in his 11/22 affidavit, however, still stands, to this day:  "I picked up a man on the lower end of town on Elm around Houston."  In his testimony he couldn't explain that, he could only deny it:  "I didn't pick up no man... I must not have read that very good when I signed that." (p282)  He couldn't explain, that is, why he said "Elm around Houston" or, for that matter, "man", not "boy".

[James DiEugenio]

Ok, thanks for that explanation.