Jeanne (Fomenko-La Gon) De Mohrenschildt One Of My Top Favorite WC Testimony Characters.

[Joe Bauer]

Her testimony was easily one of the most interesting and even fun ones to read.

The woman was a fascinating person and led a quite fascinating life.

Born in China in 1914, her father was the head of the Eastern Chinese ( later Trans-Siberian ) railroad.

The Russian Revolution was just beginning to take place.

Her father's contrary feelings about that event and his actually distancing himself and his family from it to protect their wealth and his wife and children from it's violent repercussions was uniquely interesting in and of itself. The father and mother were later murdered in China by unknown assailants.

Eugenia Fomenko struck out on her own at quite a young age. Married at 18. Danced professionally in China with her husband?

Her eventual emigration to the US and how she made instant progress in lifting herself into the retail world of high finance fashion and design was remarkable.

Her life here in the states besides her fashion career is just one interesting adventure after another. She was obviously a supremely confident and highly motivated person who was going to succeed no matter what.

Her later life with George De Mohrenschildt was just as remarkable and adventurous. They traveled the world. Got into situations that were sometimes life and death? They were shot at in Yugoslavia as potential spies when someone noticed George sketching the coastline of a top secret island on the coast.

They struggled in the rough waters in a rickety canoe and had to swim to shore and hitched a ride back to the hotel on the mainland?

Another mind boggling adventure was a machete chopping, mule accompanied "walking" trip through the wilds of Mexico and the lower Central America countries. Walking almost the entire time!

At one point on that "George In The Jungle" rugged wilds of Mexico trek, they just happened to find themselves in modern Mexico City just when a high ranking Russian government official ("Miyokan?" ) flew in for important doings with Mexican officials.

Jeanne stated she was actually able to meet this official at his plane upon departure and how he almost "fainted" upon seeing not just her upper-class "fashion plate" elegance but also hearing her speak not just English, but flawless Russian!

And by the way. Jeanne De Mohrenschildt was a very physically attractive woman. She got a job as a top model in New York at a young age.

Jeanne's recollections about her interactions with Marina Oswald are more revealing than any other persons. Marina liked Jeanne more than any other in the White Russian Community of Dallas/Fort Worth...by far.

Jeanne De M was truly like a mother figure to Marina. Marina could be her true relaxed self around Jeanne De M. Jeanne spoke Russian. She was world traveled and of a liberal morals and political mind set.

Jeanne De M's WC testimony gave us "the real" Marina Oswald.

Ruth Paine's observations and takes on Marina were nothing close to Jeanne De M's.

Jeanne De M had a very intelligent and yet practical mindedness to her. 

I was attracted to her sharings on life. I even found her to be physically attractive. And she was funny as well!

Her takes on her husband George's eccentricities were a hoot.

The following is an edited version of just some of the WC testimony Of Jeanne De M.

Her testimony about Marina really brought the "real' Marina to life imo.

Mr. JENNER. Now, Mrs. De Mohrenschildt, you had discussions with both Marina and Lee about their difficulties?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; we had them at the same time, in the same room.
Mr. JENNER. Now, what were the reasons that she advanced as to any--as dissatisfaction?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. What was the reasons what?
Mr. JENNER. What were the reasons she said why she was dissatisfied with him?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Oh, there was quite a few reasons. And I tell you---it was strange for me to hear from a young girl like that to speak so, how you say it--so boldy, about sex, for instance. I was shocked by it, you know--because in my times, even I was twice as old as she.
Mr. JENNER. Will you please tell me what she said?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, she said her husband doesn't satisfy her. She just--and he is just too busy with his things, he doesn't pay enough attention to her.
Mr. JENNER. That was one reason?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. That is one of the main reasons, yes.
And the second reason, he was cruel with her--for instance, she likes to smoke, and he would forbid her to smoke. Any little argument or something--like once something--she didn't fill his bathtub, he beat her for it. And, also, he didn't like for her to have a drink of wine. She liked wine very much. She wasn't a drunk or anything, but she likes to drink wine. And he would object to that, too. And that was their main disagreements.

Mr. JENNER. What were Marina's personal habits? Was she clean and neat? Did she keep her home clean and neat? Or did her laziness spill over into those areas?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, it was halfway, because it seems to be neat, and still not very--she was not a woman to arrange the home or make a home. I don't think so. And I don't know enough about it, because they had so few things, and they were so poor. So what can you make a home out of, nothing. You cannot really judge. You cannot. I am sure if she has things to do it with, I am sure she will.
At that particular time, she could not. She didn't have enough things to make a home. The apartments they were living in in Dallas were miserable, very, very poor.

Mr. JENNER. Tell me of her personality.
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I think I told you as much as I can. At the same time, in spite she is lazy--well, it is her upbringing, that is the way she was brought up. But she was a very, very pleasant girl. And she loved life, and she loved the United States, absolutely. We would drive on the streets, she would just--oh, that is the United States.
That is maybe why I like her, because she give me the impression she felt like I felt when I came in. She said she was always dreaming to come to the United States. She looked at those pictures with big, big houses and everything.
Did I tell you how she met Oswald, according to her?
Mr. JENNER. What did she say?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. It was in the town of Minsk. There was some kind of apartment houses, supposed to be very, very good. And she saw that house and thought, "How wonderful if I just go there to visit in that apartment house."

And Lee happened to be living there. And I think Lee was sick. And she sort of nursed him out, or something like that. That is how they met.
And I don't know--but it is very possible that she was very much influential in making them come back.
Mr. JENNER. Come to the United States?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Come to the United States.
Mr. JENNER. That was the impression you obtained from her?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes, yes.
On the other hand, he was also disappointed. He wasn't as excited as he was when he went over there, from the impressions we get from him.
Mr. JENNER. From your contacts with him, you had the impression he had been disappointed in Russia?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I asked him, "Why did you come back, if you were such a brave big hero and you threw the passport?"
And as she told me, "In the American Ambassador's face in Moscow."
He said, "Here is your passport, now I am going to be a Soviet citizen."
And I said, "How come you are back?"
He said, "I didn't find what I was looking for."
Mr. JENNER. Oswald said that?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. That was Oswald's answer. "I didn't find what I was looking for."
So, to me, the answer was the stupid kid decided to be obnoxious, and thinking he was a big hero went over there, and learned the hard way, burned himself, and decided to come back, and our Government was wonderful to help him at the time. And he was very conscientious about paying the debt, very conscientious. He paid it back, I think, the first thing, out of the first salary, in spite how hard it was for them to live. Those are the things.
And I don't know of anybody saying anything good about him. And that made me a little mad. Nobody said anything good about him. He had a lot of good qualities. He had a lot of terrible qualities, but certainly to compare him with that horrible Ruby--Oswald had a lot of good qualities. And if people would be kinder to him, maybe, you know--maybe he wouldn't be driven to be so, and wouldn't do anything like that. I don't know whether he did or not, anyway. But he would not be involved in it.

But I have the impression that he was just pushed, pushed, pushed, and she was probably nagging, nagging, nagging.

Mr. JENNER. You found her to be a nagger?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; oh, yes; she ribbed him even in front of us.
Mr. JENNER. She did?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. She did. She ribbed him so, that if I would ever speak to my husband that way we would not last long. I would not do it. Because I could see----
Mr. JENNER. What did she say? You see----
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Oh, big hero, or look at that big shot, something like that.
Mr. JENNER. When you say she ribbed him in front of us, that doesn't mean anything to us. That is a conclusion.
What did she say to him?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Let me try to remember exactly. Don't forget, I am telling right now impressions. It is very difficult to remember exact words. But certain things led to leave that impression in my mind.
Mr. JENNER. Mrs. De Mohrenschildt, it happens that you and George, having the time, having the inclination, being the kind of people you are, you saw more of the Oswalds than anybody else.
And what I am trying to do is to obtain from you, not only your impressions, but how you came by them.
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. But what I want to tell you--I don't think it is correct. We didn't see them more than anybody else. In fact, we saw them maybe less, because she never lived with us--she stayed once overnight. And they have been very, very seldom at our house, very, very seldom. I cannot exactly tell how many times. But you can count it on your fingers how many times. And usually it was when finally I find the time and I said come over and I will make dinner for you, or something like that, because I knew they were not eating very well.
He didn't care for it at all, but she did. She liked to eat well, and good things. So that was the only occasion we saw them.
So I think other people saw them even more. For instance, the people that she lived with, absolutely, because he used to come and visit her.
Mr. JENNER. Well, you were more direct with her and with him, you and your husband, because primarily his disposition is to speak his mind, and Oswald respected your husband.
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. He did. He respected him, and he respected me. And maybe that is what makes the difference with the rest of the crowd. He never was respectful. Once, as I said, he was a little--showed a little violence, and he said he will break all the baby's toys and tear her dresses if we take her away from him.
I said, "Lee, where will that get you? If you really love Marina that is the last thing you should do, then you lose her forever." And he sort of boiled and boiled. He sat quietly, you know. And he said, all right, he would not do it.
Mr. JENNER. Now, I asked you as to the sources of difficulty, and you related them. Did she twit him about his inability to make enough money so that she could live better?

Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. "Yes. That was one complaint. Another complaint, sexwise."

"he wasn't satisfactory for her. In fact, she was almost sick that she wasn't getting enough sex,

which I never heard of before."

Mr. JENNER. Now, you were going to tell me the basis on which you formed your opinion as to her, you say, nagging. You used the term "ribbing." This was not jocular, was it--not joking? It was irritating?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. It was irritating. That he was a big shot, reading, reading, reading.
Mr. JENNER. Would say that in your presence?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. She would ridicule him, in other words?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes, in a way, yes. She said things that will hurt men's pride. That definitely was.

 

 

Edited January 14 by Joe Bauer

[Steve Thomas]

Joe,

Marina's and Lee's astrological signs were squared. He was a Libra and she's a Cancer. They would have had difficulties getting along.

I liked the part where Jeanne was complaining about the Oswalds moving way out to Oak Cliff. "Why can't they move closer to Fort Worth? Why do I have to drive way out to the boondocks"?

 

Steve Thomas

 

[Joe Bauer]

6 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Joe,

Marina's and Lee's astrological signs were squared. He was a Libra and she's a Cancer. They would have had difficulties getting along.

I liked the part where Jeanne was complaining about the Oswalds moving way out to Oak Cliff. "Why can't they move closer to Fort Worth? Why do I have to drive way out to the boondocks"?

 

Steve Thomas

 

Hmmm.

Didn't know that.

And Marina loved and craved sex as much as Lee liked to be alone reading his books.

Now there's a mismatch.

[Steve Thomas]

15 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Joe,

Marina's and Lee's astrological signs were squared. He was a Libra and she's a Cancer. They would have had difficulties getting along.

Steve Thomas

 

Joe,

That's why I have such a hard time swallowing the whole whirlwind romance and marriage story of them in Russia in 1961. They met and were married within three weeks was it?

I don't think so.

Remember the story of them taking seperate vacations over in Russia back in October of 1961?  What newlywed couple does that six months after they get married?

Then, when the get to the U.S. in May or June of 1962, they are already separated by November and Marina is living with other people.

No, things were not rosy in Hooterville.

Steve Thomas

[Joe Bauer]

4 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Joe,

That's why I have such a hard time swallowing the whole whirlwind romance and marriage story of them in Russia in 1961. They met and were married within three weeks was it?

I don't think so.

Remember the story of them taking seperate vacations over in Russia back in October of 1961?  What newlywed couple does that six months after they get married?

Then, when the get to the U.S. in May or June of 1962, they are already separated by November and Marina is living with other people.

No, things were not rosy in Hooterville.

Steve Thomas

They were having major relationship problems from the get go. Just months after arriving here to the states.

Their marriage was doomed from the start. Their incompatibility was so obvious.

From Jeanne De M's testimony you can tell Marina felt comfortable and relaxed enough around J De M she revealed who she really was. Her true feelings about Lee and her life with him.

No other testimony in the WC showed us the real Marina like J De M's.

And to top off Marina's growing loss of feeling, attraction and even aversion to Lee was her worry about his extreme political activities and plans for more.

Talking of hijacking a plane to Cuba ( with her help?) Going to see Nixon in downtown Dallas and wanting to take his handgun with him ( prompting a worried Marina to lock him in the bathroom to cut that off.) His attempt to blow General Walker away. His trip to Mexico City ( not free ) ? Oswald's public fight agitating, local news reported political activity in downtown New Orleans? Spending time doing this ( for no pay?) when his family needed help with just the basics?

Oswald kept Marina in the dark about so many things he did.

I don't know if Judyth Vary Baker was who she said she was...but Lee Oswald's several secretive actions starting in New Orleans clearly prove that he "could have" had a secret female friendship outside his marriage imo.

And based on what we know about Marina's long term deep unsatisfied cravings for physical intimacy ( to the point of making her sick according to Jeanne De Mohrenschildt ) I could see why she was writing longing love letters to a former boyfriend back in Russia ( Lee found out when one was returned to their home due to insufficient postage. )

I could see Marina jumping into an outside romantic relationship if it presented itself and she wasn't so dependent upon others including Ruth Paine for basic food, shelter etc.

Just a really sad and crumbling relationship situation for Lee and Marina, crushed even more by their poverty and total dependance on others.

 

[W. Niederhut]

Joe,

    This stuff is fascinating.  Where did you find this interesting biographical material about Jeane De Mohrenschildt?

[Gene Kelly]

There’s an EF thread “Abraham Zapruder and Jeanne LeGon” started in November 2009 (that went on for several years) about some interesting parallels and connections with Jeanne.  The thread speculates that Jeanne Le Gon and Abraham Zapruder were not simply seamstress and tailor. Research by Greg Burnham and others found that , in 1953 and 1954, Jeanne LeGon worked with Abraham Zapruder at the clothing design firm Nardis in Dallas. Jeanne designed the clothing and Abraham Zapruder cut the patterns and the material for her. Tom Scully added that "Jeanne was the talent ... its seems she was a favorite of the Nardis owners, the Golds”. 

Abraham Zapruder originally found work in the Garment District of Manhattan as a clothing pattern maker, and in 1941 moved to Dallas to work for Nardis, a local sportswear company. Jeanne moved to Dallas (with her first husband) and designed clothes. In 1956 she worked for Leeds Coats and the following year she was employed by Judy Bond, Nancy Greer and Jack Rothenberg in Dallas. She was also a designer with Nardis Sportswear, owned by Bernard “Benny” Gold, who initially put her up in his mansion.  In 1957 George de Mohrenschildt became involved with Jeanne, who would become his fourth wife. Zapruder left Nardis in 1959 (the same year that Jeanne married George) and started his own business. 

The Warren Commission took two and a half days of testimony from George de Mohrenschildt and his wife Jeanne. Quite a lot of extraneous detail in comparison with other more imprtant witnesses. The conclusion from all of it was that George was "essentially an eccentric (if well-connected) figure whose life encompassed a series of strange coincidences". (Ref: “Bush and the JFK Hit, Part 6: The Cold War Comes to Dallas” by Russ Baker 10/24/13). 

Gene
 

[Joe Bauer]

On 1/6/2024 at 11:11 AM, Gene Kelly said:

There’s an EF thread “Abraham Zapruder and Jeanne LeGon” started in November 2009 (that went on for several years) about some interesting parallels and connections with Jeanne.  The thread speculates that Jeanne Le Gon and Abraham Zapruder were not simply seamstress and tailor. Research by Greg Burnham and others found that , in 1953 and 1954, Jeanne LeGon worked with Abraham Zapruder at the clothing design firm Nardis in Dallas. Jeanne designed the clothing and Abraham Zapruder cut the patterns and the material for her. Tom Scully added that "Jeanne was the talent ... its seems she was a favorite of the Nardis owners, the Golds”. 

Abraham Zapruder originally found work in the Garment District of Manhattan as a clothing pattern maker, and in 1941 moved to Dallas to work for Nardis, a local sportswear company. Jeanne moved to Dallas (with her first husband) and designed clothes. In 1956 she worked for Leeds Coats and the following year she was employed by Judy Bond, Nancy Greer and Jack Rothenberg in Dallas. She was also a designer with Nardis Sportswear, owned by Bernard “Benny” Gold, who initially put her up in his mansion.  In 1957 George de Mohrenschildt became involved with Jeanne, who would become his fourth wife. Zapruder left Nardis in 1959 (the same year that Jeanne married George) and started his own business. 

The Warren Commission took two and a half days of testimony from George de Mohrenschildt and his wife Jeanne. Quite a lot of extraneous detail in comparison with other more imprtant witnesses. The conclusion from all of it was that George was "essentially an eccentric (if well-connected) figure whose life encompassed a series of strange coincidences". (Ref: “Bush and the JFK Hit, Part 6: The Cold War Comes to Dallas” by Russ Baker 10/24/13). 

Gene
 

Like I posited.  Jeanne Fomenko - Legon - De Mohrenschildt was a very interesting person. Her whole life was interesting.

Edited January 9 by Joe Bauer

[Gene Kelly]

Joe

Do you see anything curious about the Zapruder-LeGon connection?  Greg Burnham's research goes on to point out that Zapruder was a member of the Dalls White Russian community, the Council on World Affairs and The Crusade For a Free Europe, both of which were CIA-backed organizations and Domestic Operations in Dallas whose membership included: Abraham Zapruder, Clint Murchison, D. Harold Byrd, (owner of the Book Depository), Sarah Hughes (who swore LBJ onAir Force One), and George DeMohrenschildt.  Lots of interesting dots to connect there.

Gene  

[Sean Coleman]

On 1/5/2024 at 6:39 PM, Joe Bauer said:

Her testimony was easily one of the most interesting and even fun ones to read.

The woman was a fascinating person and led a quite fascinating life.

Born in China in 1914, her father was the head of the Eastern Chinese ( later Trans-Siberian ) railroad.

The Russian Revolution was just beginning to take place.

Her father's contrary feelings about that event and his actually distancing himself and his family from it to protect their wealth and his wife and children from it's violent repercussions was uniquely interesting in and of itself. The father and mother were later murdered in China by unknown assailants.

Jeanne Fomenko stuck out on her own at quite a young age. Married at 18. Danced professionally in China with her husband?

Her eventual emigration to the US and how she made instant progress in lifting herself into the retail world of high finance fashion and design was remarkable.

Her life here in the states besides her fashion career is just one interesting adventure after another. She was obviously a supremely confident and highly motivated person who was going to succeed no matter what.

Her later life with George De Mohrenschildt was just as remarkable and adventurous. They traveled the world. Got into situations that were sometimes life and death? They were shot at In Yugoslavia as potential spies when someone noticed George sketching the coastline of a top secret island on the coast.

They struggled in the rough waters in a rickety canoe and had to swim to shore and hitched a ride back to the hotel on the mainland?

Another mind boggling adventure was a machete chopping, donkey accompanied "walking" trip through the wilds of Mexico and the lower Central America countries. Walking almost the entire time!

At one point on that "George In The Jungle" trek, they just happened to find themselves in some outback area of Mexico just when a high ranking Russian government official flew in for important doings with Mexican officials. Jeanne stated she was actually able to meet this official at the plane and how he almost "fainted" upon seeing not just her upper-class elegance but also hearing her speak not just English, but flawless Russian!

And by the way. Jeanne De Mohrenschildt was a very physically attractive woman. She got a job as a top model in New York at a young age.

Jeanne's recollections about her interactions with Marina Oswald are more revealing than any other persons. Marina liked Jeanne more than any other in the White Russian Community of Dallas/Fort Worth...by far.

Jeanne De M was truly like a mother figure to Marina. Marina could be her true self around Jeanne De M. Jeanne spoke Russian. She was world traveled and of a liberal morals and political mind set.

Jeanne De M's WC testimony gave us "the real" Marina Oswald.

Ruth Paine's observations and takes on Marina were not close to Jeanne De M's.

Jeanne De M had a very intelligent and yet practical mindedness to her. 

I was attracted to her sharings on life. I even found her to be physically attractive. And she was funny as well!

Her takes on her husband George eccentricities were a hoot.

The following is an edited version of just some of the WC testimony Of J De M.

Her testimony about Marina really brought the "real' Marina to life imo.

Mr. JENNER. Now, Mrs. De Mohrenschildt, you had discussions with both Marina and Lee about their difficulties?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; we had them at the same time, in the same room.
Mr. JENNER. Now, what were the reasons that she advanced as to any--as dissatisfaction?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. What was the reasons what?
Mr. JENNER. What were the reasons she said why she was dissatisfied with him?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Oh, there was quite a few reasons. And I tell you---it was strange for me to hear from a young girl like that to speak so, how you say it--so boldy, about sex, for instance. I was shocked by it, you know--because in my times, even I was twice as old as she.
Mr. JENNER. Will you please tell me what she said?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, she said her husband doesn't satisfy her. She just--and he is just too busy with his things, he doesn't pay enough attention to her.
Mr. JENNER. That was one reason?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. That is one of the main reasons, yes.
And the second reason, he was cruel with her--for instance, she likes to smoke, and he would forbid her to smoke. Any little argument or something--like once something--she didn't fill his bathtub, he beat her for it. And, also, he didn't like for her to have a drink of wine. She liked wine very much. She wasn't a drunk or anything, but she likes to drink wine. And he would object to that, too. And that was their main disagreements.

Mr. JENNER. What were Marina's personal habits? Was she clean and neat? Did she keep her home clean and neat? Or did her laziness spill over into those areas?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, it was halfway, because it seems to be neat, and still not very--she was not a woman to arrange the home or make a home. I don't think so. And I don't know enough about it, because they had so few things, and they were so poor. So what can you make a home out of, nothing. You cannot really judge. You cannot. I am sure if she has things to do it with, I am sure she will.
At that particular time, she could not. She didn't have enough things to make a home. The apartments they were living in in Dallas were miserable, very, very poor.

Mr. JENNER. Tell me of her personality.
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I think I told you as much as I can. At the same time, in spite she is lazy--well, it is her upbringing, that is the way she was brought up. But she was a very, very pleasant girl. And she loved life, and she loved the United States, absolutely. We would drive on the streets, she would just--oh, that is the United States.
That is maybe why I like her, because she give me the impression she felt like I felt when I came in. She said she was always dreaming to come to the United States. She looked at those pictures with big, big houses and everything.
Did I tell you how she met Oswald, according to her?
Mr. JENNER. What did she say?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. It was in the town of Minsk. There was some kind of apartment houses, supposed to be very, very good. And she saw that house and thought, "How wonderful if I just go there to visit in that apartment house."

And Lee happened to be living there. And I think Lee was sick. And she sort of nursed him out, or something like that. That is how they met.
And I don't know--but it is very possible that she was very much influential in making them come back.
Mr. JENNER. Come to the United States?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Come to the United States.
Mr. JENNER. That was the impression you obtained from her?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes, yes.
On the other hand, he was also disappointed. He wasn't as excited as he was when he went over there, from the impressions we get from him.
Mr. JENNER. From your contacts with him, you had the impression he had been disappointed in Russia?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I asked him, "Why did you come back, if you were such a brave big hero and you threw the passport?"
And as she told me, "In the American Ambassador's face in Moscow."
He said, "Here is your passport, now I am going to be a Soviet citizen."
And I said, "How come you are back?"
He said, "I didn't find what I was looking for."
Mr. JENNER. Oswald said that?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. That was Oswald's answer. "I didn't find what I was looking for."
So, to me, the answer was the stupid kid decided to be obnoxious, and thinking he was a big hero went over there, and learned the hard way, burned himself, and decided to come back, and our Government was wonderful to help him at the time. And he was very conscientious about paying the debt, very conscientious. He paid it back, I think, the first thing, out of the first salary, in spite how hard it was for them to live. Those are the things.
And I don't know of anybody saying anything good about him. And that made me a little mad. Nobody said anything good about him. He had a lot of good qualities. He had a lot of terrible qualities, but certainly to compare him with that horrible Ruby--Oswald had a lot of good qualities. And if people would be kinder to him, maybe, you know--maybe he wouldn't be driven to be so, and wouldn't do anything like that. I don't know whether he did or not, anyway. But he would not be involved in it.

But I have the impression that he was just pushed, pushed, pushed, and she was probably nagging, nagging, nagging.

Mr. JENNER. You found her to be a nagger?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; oh, yes; she ribbed him even in front of us.
Mr. JENNER. She did?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. She did. She ribbed him so, that if I would ever speak to my husband that way we would not last long. I would not do it. Because I could see----
Mr. JENNER. What did she say? You see----
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Oh, big hero, or look at that big shot, something like that.
Mr. JENNER. When you say she ribbed him in front of us, that doesn't mean anything to us. That is a conclusion.
What did she say to him?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Let me try to remember exactly. Don't forget, I am telling right now impressions. It is very difficult to remember exact words. But certain things led to leave that impression in my mind.
Mr. JENNER. Mrs. De Mohrenschildt, it happens that you and George, having the time, having the inclination, being the kind of people you are, you saw more of the Oswalds than anybody else.
And what I am trying to do is to obtain from you, not only your impressions, but how you came by them.
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. But what I want to tell you--I don't think it is correct. We didn't see them more than anybody else. In fact, we saw them maybe less, because she never lived with us--she stayed once overnight. And they have been very, very seldom at our house, very, very seldom. I cannot exactly tell how many times. But you can count it on your fingers how many times. And usually it was when finally I find the time and I said come over and I will make dinner for you, or something like that, because I knew they were not eating very well.
He didn't care for it at all, but she did. She liked to eat well, and good things. So that was the only occasion we saw them.
So I think other people saw them even more. For instance, the people that she lived with, absolutely, because he used to come and visit her.
Mr. JENNER. Well, you were more direct with her and with him, you and your husband, because primarily his disposition is to speak his mind, and Oswald respected your husband.
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. He did. He respected him, and he respected me. And maybe that is what makes the difference with the rest of the crowd. He never was respectful. Once, as I said, he was a little--showed a little violence, and he said he will break all the baby's toys and tear her dresses if we take her away from him.
I said, "Lee, where will that get you? If you really love Marina that is the last thing you should do, then you lose her forever." And he sort of boiled and boiled. He sat quietly, you know. And he said, all right, he would not do it.
Mr. JENNER. Now, I asked you as to the sources of difficulty, and you related them. Did she twit him about his inability to make enough money so that she could live better?

Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. That was one complaint. Another complaint, sexwise.

"he wasn't satisfactory for her. In fact, she was almost sick that she wasn't getting enough sex,

which I never heard of before.

Mr. JENNER. Now, you were going to tell me the basis on which you formed your opinion as to her, you say, nagging. You used the term "ribbing." This was not jocular, was it--not joking? It was irritating?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. It was irritating. That he was a big shot, reading, reading, reading.
Mr. JENNER. Would say that in your presence?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. She would ridicule him, in other words?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes, in a way, yes. She said things that will hurt men's pride. That definitely was.

 

 

This is interesting…

 

This seems a specific belittling jab at LHO, what heroic or big shot claims had been made, that M has used as an emasculation?

Did he appear to M to be a wannabe or even a gonnabe to the point where she laughed behind his back at his rants?

like I say, quite a specific barbed comment related to ‘big man’ claims by LHO? 

Edited March 19 by Sean Coleman

[Joe Bauer]

On 1/7/2024 at 5:19 AM, Gene Kelly said:

Joe

Do you see anything curious about the Zapruder-LeGon connection?  Greg Burnham's research goes on to point out that Zapruder was a member of the Dallas White Russian community, the Council on World Affairs and The Crusade For a Free Europe, both of which were CIA-backed organizations and Domestic Operations in Dallas whose membership included: Abraham Zapruder, Clint Murchison, D. Harold Byrd, (owner of the Book Depository), Sarah Hughes (who swore LBJ on Air Force One), and George DeMohrenschildt.  Lots of interesting dots to connect there.

Gene  

Gene, like so many other strange connections between major players in the JFKA affair the one between Jeanne LeGon and Zapruder is too coincidental NOT to be worthy of at least some curious and even suspicious consideration.

And I can't totally shake some suspicion of both Jeanne LeGon and George De Mohrenschildt maybe having some double agent roles at some point in their remarkably intrepid world travel lives.

Jeanne De M's Warren Commission testimony about this supposed unplanned happen stance meet up with that Russian diplomat "Mikoyan" in Mexico City just sounds too incongruous to me...relative to their main goal travel plans of machete hacking their way through the Mexican and Central American jungle...for the purpose of getting in shape as well as a distraction for George in his grief over his son's death?

George De Mohrenschildt's WC testimony is also a fascinating read imo.

Also, George De Mohrenschildt was employed at a clothing design business in New York City at the same time his future wife Jeanne Le Gon was employed there in the same type of business? They actually lived close to each other at that time?

Another weird coincidence?

Edited January 12 by Joe Bauer

[Joe Bauer]

   

*******

 

 

Edited January 7 by Joe Bauer

[Gene Kelly]

21 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Gene, like so many other strange connections between major players in the JFKA affair the one between Jeanne LeGon and Zapruder is too coincidental NOT to be worthy of at least some curious and even suspicious consideration.

And I can't totally shake some suspicion of both Jeanne LeGon and George De Mohrenschildt maybe having some double agent roles at some point in their remarkably intrepid world travel lives.

Jeanne De M's Warren Commission testimony about this supposed unplanned happen stance meet up with that Russian diplomat "Mikoyan" in the Mexican outback just sounds too incongruous to me...relative to their main goal travel plans of machete hacking their way through the Central American jungle...for the purpose of getting in shape as well as a distraction for George in his grief over his son's death?

George De Mohrenschildt's WC testimony is also a fascinating read imo.

Also, George De Mohrenschildt was employed at a clothing design business in New York City at the same time his future wife Jeanne Le Gon was employed there in the same type of business? They actually lived close to each other at that time?

Another weird coincidence?

Joe

Its certainly a tantalizing set of connections. Jeanne and George led a colorful life, with intrigue and controversy.  Unfortunately, all that we can do is speculate at this late date.  I do find it notable that the Warren Commission took so much detailed testimony (2+ days worth) from this couple, while really getting nothing out of it, other than a veritable character assassination of the Oswalds. There were other witnesses more deserving of such scrutiny.  Also, that Npvember 2009 EF thread went on for some length, with lots of 'interventions' and challenges by certain members who seemed intent on derailing the dialogue (a sign that it might've been important).   

I would end by saying that Zapruder has always been an enigma to me, and his film is a contentious topic to this day (its handling, provenance, and ultimate ownership).  I don't want to wade into alteration theories, but why such an important piece of evidence ends up with Time magazine (and later the 6th Floor Museum) is troubling.  And in 1997, when the AARB formally voted to designate the film as an “assassination record”-  and implement a legal “taking” to preserve it in perpetuity, as part of the JFK Records Collection - a Justice Department arbitration panel decided in 1999 that Zapruder’s heirs should be given sixteen million dollars in “just compensation” for the taking of the film by the U.S. government, allowing the heirs to keep the copyright, and all of the legal control over use of the film’s images that comes with the copyright.

As Dough Horne commented, there's something fishy about that. 

Gene 

[Joe Bauer]

On 1/7/2024 at 9:30 AM, Gene Kelly said:

Joe

Its certainly a tantalizing set of connections. Jeanne and George led a colorful life, with intrigue and controversy.  Unfortunately, all that we can do is speculate at this late date.  I do find it notable that the Warren Commission took so much detailed testimony (2+ days worth) from this couple, while really getting nothing out of it, other than a veritable character assassination of the Oswalds. There were other witnesses more deserving of such scrutiny.  Also, that Npvember 2009 EF thread went on for some length, with lots of 'interventions' and challenges by certain members who seemed intent on derailing the dialogue (a sign that it might've been important).   

I would end by saying that Zapruder has always been an enigma to me, and his film is a contentious topic to this day (its handling, provenance, and ultimate ownership).  I don't want to wade into alteration theories, but why such an important piece of evidence ends up with Time magazine (and later the 6th Floor Museum) is troubling.  And in 1997, when the AARB formally voted to designate the film as an “assassination record”-  and implement a legal “taking” to preserve it in perpetuity, as part of the JFK Records Collection - a Justice Department arbitration panel decided in 1999 that Zapruder’s heirs should be given sixteen million dollars in “just compensation” for the taking of the film by the U.S. government, allowing the heirs to keep the copyright, and all of the legal control over use of the film’s images that comes with the copyright.

As Dough Horne commented, there's something fishy about that. 

Gene 

So many others who came forward as Dealey Plaza eyewitness photo takers and film makers who partook in subsequent interviews and appearances were always trashed by LNers as nothing more than money grubbing hawkers.

But not a peep out of those critics regards Zapruder making a fortune in "leasing" his film to Life Magazine. And doing so just days after the bloody killing.

If Zapruder was really that morally inclined to not wanting America to see the brutal bloodshed, he sure quickly compromised that self-righteous tenet to pocket what today would be a million dollars.

He had his price.

And why and how did our government police agencies exempt Zapruder's film from their immediate possession, as they forced upon so many others who filmed or took still pictures of the Dealey Plaza scene that day?

And we taxpayers had to give Zapruder's family another 16 MILLION more dollars to take "Cultural Preservation " possession of their father's film?

16 million!

Wow...that's a fortune!

How much did photographers Orville Nix and James Altgens or even Mary Moorman make off of their immediate time of shots JFK in Dealey Plaza film and still photo pics?

Zapruder and his family made a fortune off his film. So why have they been spared in the grifter charges realm affixed to other witnesses who made peanut appearance monies for sharing what they saw or photographed that day?

Edited January 14 by Joe Bauer

[Joe Bauer]

Excerpt from George De Mohrenschildt's book " I am Just A Patsy."

 

"You and your wife were the only ones who remained his friends? Continued Jenner his line of inquiry.

Their question was asked of both of us. And we answered both in about the same terms: "to us they were warm, open, young people, responsive to our hospitality."

Albert Jenner then brought to my attention part of a letter I wrote to Mrs. Auchincloss from Haiti. He used this as my admission of Lee's guilt, and I had explained already under what circumstances this letter was written. "Since we lived in Dallas we had the misfortune to have met Lee Harvey Oswald and his wife Marina. I do hope that Marina and her children (now he has two by Lee) will not suffer too badly through life and that the stigma of the assassination will not affect her and the innocent children."

This was my foolish letter and my speculation, not Jeanne's.

And again, after the impact of this letter read to me, Jenner very cleverly bamboozled me into a possible motive of Lee's guilt. "The only reason for Lee's criminal act," I continued, "would be that he might have been jealous of a young, rich, attractive president who had a beautiful wife and was a world figure. Lee was just the opposite; his wife was bitchy and he was a failure."

Now, away from the pressure of the Committee, I consider this statement of mine most unfair. It would not have made him a here to have shot a liberal and beloved president, especially beloved by the minorities, and Marina was not such a bitch, while Jacqueline was not so beautiful. Especially she was not beautiful inside when she married that gangster of international shipping Aristotle Onassis...

Isn't better to think, maybe subconsciously, that the assassin was a crazy, semi-literate, ex-Marine, screwed-up, Marxist lunatic, with an undesirable discharge and a poverty-stricken childhood, unsuccessful in his pursuits both in USSR and in USA - and with a record of marriage verging on disastrous. It's better to hold to this belief for them and for the rest of the country rather than to find out that the assassination was a devilishly clever act of revenge caused by the Bay of Pigs disaster.