Why do some conspiracy theorists accept the X-rays and autopsy photos as genuine?

[Pat Speer]

46 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

The alleged hairy fragment is pretty interesting - but Humes’ ARRB deposition is not really inconsistent with the autopsy report in that he said there were 3-5cm of missing scalp. He also said it was difficult to estimate the actual amount missing: 

Q. Without stretching the scalp, just, you know, basically how much scalp was actually missing at the time that the body arrived at Bethesda? 
A. You know, I couldn't--it would be a rough guess. Maybe four or five centi--three or four centimeters, something like that. Probably, because it was all torn, you see, with serrated-- and there were--it wasn't like a punch that was punched out. It was torn apart, you know. So I have a hard time estimating that. 

I might be off base here, but it also seems like it would’ve been easy to mistake torn and displaced scalp for scalp that was actually missing, especially if some of the flaps were open at Parkland - and per your analysis Clark, Perry et al. weren’t exactly immune to making errors. 

I’ve said this before, but for the record I totally agree that the probability of an EOP entrance with 6.5mm ammo causing JFK’s (official) head wounds and the effects we see in the Z-film is exceedingly low, if not impossible. It’s just the impossible part that I’m curious about. The possibility of impossibility, or something like that. 

For example, I’d love to see someone attempt to reconcile the large chunks of skull literally launching through the air at high speed with an EOP entrance/temp-cavity exit scenario. That’s one that seems like a blatant hallmark of an impact in the supposed exit location, especially combined with JFK’s back and leftward motion. 

Thanks for positing that quote from Humes. He specified that it wasn't punched out. Interesting. 

I was thinking of you the other day, Tom. I think you questioned whether the back wound was really a dead end, and thought maybe the wound track had collapsed or something like that. I was reading the autopsy report of the goat killed for the WC, in an effort to reproduce Connally's wound. The goat was fired upon by the rifle found in the depository, from a distance greater than that proposed for the assassination. And yet it left measurable holes through four different layers of muscle. 

[Tom Gram]

59 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Thanks for positing that quote from Humes. He specified that it wasn't punched out. Interesting. 

I was thinking of you the other day, Tom. I think you questioned whether the back wound was really a dead end, and thought maybe the wound track had collapsed or something like that. I was reading the autopsy report of the goat killed for the WC, in an effort to reproduce Connally's wound. The goat was fired upon by the rifle found in the depository, from a distance greater than that proposed for the assassination. And yet it left measurable holes through four different layers of muscle. 

I don’t recall commenting on the back wound like that. I think Ben has mentioned something along those lines but I could be wrong. I’ve mostly been curious about the head wound. 

I did mention Martin Fackler’s gelatin tests at one point, which demonstrated - assuming they were legit - that the MC bullet was extremely stable and didn’t tumble until after ~60cm of tissue penetration. That’s the only thing I remember saying that could potentially be construed as defending the SBT, though that was not my intention, at all.

I just meant that ignoring the wound locations, the 6.5mm MC bullet was one of the more likely rifle bullets to pass through one person and hit another person without tumbling, according to Fackler’s tests: 

http://thinlineweapons.com/IWBA/2001-Vol5No2.pdf (p. 40 of pdf) 

Edited January 30 by Tom Gram

[Pat Speer]

14 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

I don’t recall commenting on the back wound like that. I think Ben has mentioned something along those lines but I could be wrong. I’ve mostly been curious about the head wound. 

I did mention Martin Fackler’s gelatin tests at one point, which demonstrated - assuming they were legit - that the MC bullet was extremely stable and didn’t tumble until after ~60cm of tissue penetration. That’s the only thing I remember saying that could potentially be construed as defending the SBT, though that was not my intention, at all.

I just meant that ignoring the wound locations, the 6.5mm MC bullet was one of the more likely rifle bullets to pass through one person and hit another person without tumbling, according to Fackler’s tests: 

http://thinlineweapons.com/IWBA/2001-Vol5No2.pdf (p. 40 of pdf) 

Sorry, you're right. I was thinking of Ben. Those pesky three letter first names!

[Keven Hofeling]

On 1/26/2024 at 8:38 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Michael,

Do you know if Dr. Chesser agrees with Dr. Mantik's occipital placement of the Harper fragment?

 

Michael has provided you with an answer to this, but I thought you might appreciate this more concise statement of Dr. Chesser's position on the Harper Fragment being occipital bone which he provided as an addendum to an article entitled "The (JFK) Windmills of Pat Speer."  https://assassinationofjfk.net/jfk-windmills-pat-speer/

 

ADDENDUM: Michael Chesser, MD

March 8, 2016

My review of the x-rays and the scalp retraction photograph leads me to the following conclusions:

1. There is a dark area on the AP x-ray, inferior to the left lambdoid suture, with sharp demarcation, which can only be explained by missing occipital bone. This skull defect extends to the left of midline in the upper portion of the occipital bone, and has an outline which is consistent with the Harper fragment.

2. I could not see the right lambdoid suture on the AP x-ray, and this indicates bone loss at least involving the right occipital-parietal junction.

3. The AP x-ray also reveals a dark area inferior and lateral to the orbit on the right side, compared with the left, indicating loss of bone/brain substance in the temporal and occipital region.

4. On the lateral x-ray the lower occipital skull appears disrupted, with jagged fragments. Dr. Mantik’s OD data confirm missing bone in various regions of the occipital bone.

5. I agree with Dr. Mantik’s placement of the Harper fragment. If the three Dallas pathologists were living I would ask them about the features which were visible on the bone fragment which led them to this conclusion. They were looking at a portion of the skull of the President, and I don’t believe that they came to a hasty conclusion, and they must have seen clear features which localized to the occipital bone. The central occipital skull defect seen on the scalp retraction photograph, and the outline of the dark area on the AP x-ray both point toward the Harper fragment’s localization to this area.

6. I believe that the central (extending to the left) occipital skull defect is separate from the exit wound identified by the Parkland and Bethesda personnel. The right occipital wound was described as missing overlying scalp and meninges. I think that the area of the Harper fragment was most likely an area in which there was an overlying flap of scalp. It is also possible that these defects were partially contiguous, with the region of the Harper fragment covered by the scalp.

https://assassinationofjfk.net/jfk-windmills-pat-speer/

 

[Sandy Larsen]

4 hours ago, Keven Hofeling said:

Michael has provided you with an answer to this, but I thought you might appreciate this more concise statement of Dr. Chesser's position on the Harper Fragment being occipital bone which he provided as an addendum to an article entitled "The (JFK) Windmills of Pat Speer."  https://assassinationofjfk.net/jfk-windmills-pat-speer/

 

ADDENDUM: Michael Chesser, MD

March 8, 2016

My review of the x-rays and the scalp retraction photograph leads me to the following conclusions:

1. There is a dark area on the AP x-ray, inferior to the left lambdoid suture, with sharp demarcation, which can only be explained by missing occipital bone. This skull defect extends to the left of midline in the upper portion of the occipital bone, and has an outline which is consistent with the Harper fragment.

2. I could not see the right lambdoid suture on the AP x-ray, and this indicates bone loss at least involving the right occipital-parietal junction.

3. The AP x-ray also reveals a dark area inferior and lateral to the orbit on the right side, compared with the left, indicating loss of bone/brain substance in the temporal and occipital region.

4. On the lateral x-ray the lower occipital skull appears disrupted, with jagged fragments. Dr. Mantik’s OD data confirm missing bone in various regions of the occipital bone.

5. I agree with Dr. Mantik’s placement of the Harper fragment. If the three Dallas pathologists were living I would ask them about the features which were visible on the bone fragment which led them to this conclusion. They were looking at a portion of the skull of the President, and I don’t believe that they came to a hasty conclusion, and they must have seen clear features which localized to the occipital bone. The central occipital skull defect seen on the scalp retraction photograph, and the outline of the dark area on the AP x-ray both point toward the Harper fragment’s localization to this area.

6. I believe that the central (extending to the left) occipital skull defect is separate from the exit wound identified by the Parkland and Bethesda personnel. The right occipital wound was described as missing overlying scalp and meninges. I think that the area of the Harper fragment was most likely an area in which there was an overlying flap of scalp. It is also possible that these defects were partially contiguous, with the region of the Harper fragment covered by the scalp.

https://assassinationofjfk.net/jfk-windmills-pat-speer/

 

 

Thanks Keven. That is very helpful to my understanding of the Harper fragment.

 

 

[Chris Davidson]

On 1/21/2024 at 9:30 AM, Chris Davidson said:

The "Shell" game created by the WC and carried on by the HSCA. (Liaison- Gerald Ford) imo

Speaking of a 10" vertical, I believe you could describe one of the head shots as a 3ft "short of the mark" shot.

That would allow the same relationship of a "lower back to lower head" and "higher back to higher head" shot.

A great reason for Gerald Ford to move the lower back location as he did.

And, since CE884 uses a back height wound (3.27ft above the street) instead of a true z313 head shot elevation, one might get confused as to the actual true ballistics and where that shot actually occurred on Elm Street.

But, leave it to the powers that be to convince you a 10" vertical drop on Elm Street equated to a .9ft distance traveled(z161-166) instead of 15.25ft (10"/12 =.8333 x 18.3)

 

 

 

[Keven Hofeling]

On 1/23/2024 at 10:09 AM, Pat Speer said:

Stalker. 

Mr. Speer:

I've familiarized myself with the rules of the forum, and consistent therewith, I demand that you delete the allegation you made that I am a "stalker." If you do not do so within 24 hours of this post, I will report your allegation to the forum administrators as being defamatory and libelous, and consistent with the rules, you will be sanctioned more severely.

[Sandy Larsen]

4 hours ago, Keven Hofeling said:

On 1/23/2024 at 10:09 AM, Pat Speer said:

Stalker. 

4 hours ago, Keven Hofeling said:

Mr. Speer:

I've familiarized myself with the rules of the forum, and consistent therewith, I demand that you delete the allegation you made that I am a "stalker." If you do not do so within 24 hours of this post, I will report your allegation to the forum administrators as being defamatory and libelous, and consistent with the rules, you will be sanctioned more severely.

 

@Pat Speer