Richard Bertolino Posted May 4 Author Share Posted May 4 (edited) On 5/3/2024 at 4:59 PM, Donald Willis said: To continue my reply to Richard Bertolino... If you can enlarge the page I just posted, about 10 minutes ago, you'll see that I have Oswald coming in to N. Beckley about 12:51 and alighting at the 1000 block. So, rooming house, about 12:52. Leaving it, about 12:55. Now to switch to Hill/Valentine: Hill radios dispatcher about 12:48: "Hill & Valentine en route to Elm & Houston". Arrival time there: circa 12:51. And they did arrive there, as shown in a photo on jfkinvestigators.wordpress.com. Hill interacts at the TSBD with Insp. Sawyer and a third-floor suspect, going up to & back down from the 3rd floor, with the suspect. No way, then, that he can be on Beckley before, say, 1:05, after Oswald has left. Even if a third officer borrowed their car, it's doubtful he could have been there between 12:51 & 12:55... Edited Thursday at 01:22 AM by Richard Bertolino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Bertolino Posted May 4 Author Share Posted May 4 (edited) On 5/3/2024 at 4:59 PM, Donald Willis said: To continue my reply to Richard Bertolino... If you can enlarge the page I just posted, about 10 minutes ago, you'll see that I have Oswald coming in to N. Beckley about 12:51 and alighting at the 1000 block. So, rooming house, about 12:52. Leaving it, about 12:55. Now to switch to Hill/Valentine: Hill radios dispatcher about 12:48: "Hill & Valentine en route to Elm & Houston". Arrival time there: circa 12:51. And they did arrive there, as shown in a photo on jfkinvestigators.wordpress.com. Hill interacts at the TSBD with Insp. Sawyer and a third-floor suspect, going up to & back down from the 3rd floor, with the suspect. No way, then, that he can be on Beckley before, say, 1:05, after Oswald has left. Even if a third officer borrowed their car, it's doubtful he could have been there between 12:51 & 12:55... Edited Thursday at 01:22 AM by Richard Bertolino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Willis Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 6 hours ago, Richard Bertolino said: You seem to be the serious respondent here, or maybe it is "responder." You probably know which. So, I should be more specific. First, as I have already said, I think my interpretation is better because it explains the car 207 matters. But I also suspect that Oswald never was in Whaley's cab, so I am not swayed by your post here, even though it does have it's own internal logic. You have worked out a scenario. As for Hill on the radio, how do we know where he really was when he was on the radio? We have the example of him on the radio pretending to be with Sgt. Owens just a little later, and apparently he was not. Hill is a very suspicious character, and he shows us that he knows how to use the radio in order to lie to us. And the film that shows their arrival at the TSBD shows Valentine to drive off after Hill and Ewell get out of the car, whatever the actual time may have been. The film has no time stamp. Also, the time at which Oswald was on Beckley is far from certain. We have an approximate 10-minute window, based upon what Earlene Roberts said about her television. We don't know that Oswald really got on the bus...the wrong bus, BTW. Whaley is a very weak witness...who conveniently "died" a couple years later, BTW. So to me, your scenario remains very speculative...more so than mine. All valid points. Since Hit the wrong button. Going to try again..., in his Reit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Willis Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 6 hours ago, Richard Bertolino said: You seem to be the serious respondent here, or maybe it is "responder." You probably know which. So, I should be more specific. First, as I have already said, I think my interpretation is better because it explains the car 207 matters. But I also suspect that Oswald never was in Whaley's cab, so I am not swayed by your post here, even though it does have it's own internal logic. You have worked out a scenario. As for Hill on the radio, how do we know where he really was when he was on the radio? We have the example of him on the radio pretending to be with Sgt. Owens just a little later, and apparently he was not. Hill is a very suspicious character, and he shows us that he knows how to use the radio in order to lie to us. And the film that shows their arrival at the TSBD shows Valentine to drive off after Hill and Ewell get out of the car, whatever the actual time may have been. The film has no time stamp. Also, the time at which Oswald was on Beckley is far from certain. We have an approximate 10-minute window, based upon what Earlene Roberts said about her television. We don't know that Oswald really got on the bus...the wrong bus, BTW. Whaley is a very weak witness...who conveniently "died" a couple years later, BTW. So to me, your scenario remains very speculative...more so than mine. All valid points. Because Hill had to take another car to Oak Cliff, we know that someone was using 207. As for Whaley--I used to discount him outright. But details like his saying (in his Rewriting History interview, drive) that, coming off the viaduct route, he turned left on N. Beckley at the 500 block (really the 1000 block) made me think otherwise. Don't think he could have made that mistake if he hadn't ferried Oswald to Beckley and thought that Oswald's "This will be fine" meant that the 1000-block drop-off was really the 500 block, as originally scheduled. And, yes, I noticed that Whaley died shortly after. And the Burroughs timing tracks--if Oswald left the rooming house just before 1pm, he would have arrived at the theatre not long after 1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Bertolino Posted May 4 Author Share Posted May 4 2 minutes ago, Donald Willis said: All valid points. Because Hill had to take another car to Oak Cliff, we know that someone was using 207. As for Whaley--I used to discount him outright. But details like his saying (in his Rewriting History interview, drive) that, coming off the viaduct route, he turned left on N. Beckley at the 500 block (really the 1000 block) made me think otherwise. Don't think he could have made that mistake if he hadn't ferried Oswald to Beckley and thought that Oswald's "This will be fine" meant that the 1000-block drop-off was really the 500 block, as originally scheduled. And, yes, I noticed that Whaley died shortly after. And the Burroughs timing tracks--if Oswald left the rooming house just before 1pm, he would have arrived at the theatre not long after 1... I'm not real keen on Butch Burroughs, neither. But you might be right. At least you make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Rose Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 17 hours ago, Kevin Balch said: Cardboard is a poor but not totally ineffective reflective surface so it is not surprising that the adjacent box would reflect a small portion of the large amount of light coming through the window onto the box. The boxes were often bound with tape which is also somewhat reflective. I also think the photo was taken with a flashbulb. The first makes sense. The last, the use of flashbulb, I agree with, but this is unlikely to be caused by the flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Bertolino Posted May 5 Author Share Posted May 5 (edited) On 5/4/2024 at 12:32 PM, Donald Willis said: All valid points. Because Hill had to take another car to Oak Cliff, we know that someone was using 207. As for Whaley--I used to discount him outright. But details like his saying (in his Rewriting History interview, drive) that, coming off the viaduct route, he turned left on N. Beckley at the 500 block (really the 1000 block) made me think otherwise. Don't think he could have made that mistake if he hadn't ferried Oswald to Beckley and thought that Oswald's "This will be fine" meant that the 1000-block drop-off was really the 500 block, as originally scheduled. And, yes, I noticed that Whaley died shortly after. And the Burroughs timing tracks--if Oswald left the rooming house just before 1pm, he would have arrived at the theatre not long after 1... Edited Thursday at 01:22 AM by Richard Bertolino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Willis Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 10 hours ago, Richard Bertolino said: What was Whaley's "Rewriting History interview?" Someone for the "Reclaiming History" team apparently found an interview which Whaley did not long after 11/22, in which he talked as he drove to the site where he (now) said he dropped off Oswald, several blocks below the boarding house. Unfortunately, he also added, as he dutifully drove there, that he turned onto N. Beckley at the 500 block (actually the 1000 block). Apparent upshot: Whaley thought the place that he dropped off Oswald--opposite the house--was the 500 block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Bertolino Posted May 5 Author Share Posted May 5 (edited) On 5/5/2024 at 11:50 AM, Donald Willis said: Someone for the "Reclaiming History" team apparently found an interview which Whaley did not long after 11/22, in which he talked as he drove to the site where he (now) said he dropped off Oswald, several blocks below the boarding house. Unfortunately, he also added, as he dutifully drove there, that he turned onto N. Beckley at the 500 block (actually the 1000 block). Apparent upshot: Whaley thought the place that he dropped off Oswald--opposite the house--was the 500 block. Edited Thursday at 01:23 AM by Richard Bertolino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bristow Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 The triangle shadows effect can be seen in Willis 5. The Colonnade windows have similar triangles that are always in the lower left and upper right corners. There is motion blur on all the stationary background objects and the angle of the blur matches the angle of the triangles. If triangles appeared in the opposite corners (Upper left, lower right.), those angles would not match the motion blur direction and would be 90 degrees off the blur direction. The 6th floor photo does not have motion blur but the similarities of the window corner triangles is notable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Willis Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 23 hours ago, Richard Bertolino said: This says to me that Whaley did not give Oswald a ride...he's just making up stuff. I think this interview was in one of those CBS specials. There is video online of a Whaley interview while he is driving the alleged route. But for the Commission, Whaley put a big "X" near the 1000 block of N.. Beckley for the spot where he dropped O off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Bertolino Posted May 7 Author Share Posted May 7 (edited) On 5/6/2024 at 11:51 AM, Donald Willis said: But for the Commission, Whaley put a big "X" near the 1000 block of N.. Beckley for the spot where he dropped O off... Edited Thursday at 01:23 AM by Richard Bertolino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Willis Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 9 hours ago, Richard Bertolino said: I'm still hearing that Whaley was a fake, an agent of the master schemers who needed to explain Oswald's movements between murders. I think his death was probably faked to take him off the researcher market because he was a weak link. I don't think that W began as a fake. But when he put that "X" on the map, they knew he had to be weaned off the truth, or there'd be an unexplained time gap in Oswald's movements between the boarding house and 10th & Patton. LNs would have been forced into speculation re why he got to 10th & P five minutes before Tippit. Clearly, he did not go to 10th & P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Morissette Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 On 5/1/2024 at 5:46 PM, Kevin Balch said: Your source indicates the photo is from November 26, 1963. What would be the purpose of faking this photograph? It's a typo. It says the correct date down the page: Special Collections Identifier: AR406-6 11/22/1963 4816 env. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Morissette Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 On 5/1/2024 at 11:00 PM, Kevin Balch said: I am guessing that if the photo was faked, it was to disprove Earline Roberts claim that a police car was outside 1026 N. Beckley while Oswald was in his room. Am I right? When did first Roberts make the claim about the police car? The earliest reference I see is November 29, 1963. Was there an earlier reference? https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339485/m1/1/ The photo appears to be taken in front of the west wall of the TSBD based on the arrow pointing to the right toward the stairs which are located in the northwest corner of the building. If the photo was faked, they took care to get the shadows on the boxes correct for early to mid-afternoon sun for late November. https://www.suncalc.org/#/32.778,-96.7962,10/1963.11.22/13:35/1/3 What is the source of the photo of the same window that is not faked used for comparison? Faked by the Fort Worth Star-Telegram? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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