Involvement of the Secret Service

[Ron Bulman]

I've come to believe over the years that some agents in the Secret Service were involved in the John F. Kennedy assassination beforehand, during the assassination itself, and the cover-up afterwards.

Beforehand. 

Let's keep in mind here the true head of the Secret Service was the Secretary of the Treasury, C. Douglass Dillon, appointed by JFK.  Not a friend of his, but friends of JFK critic David Rockefeller and his employee Allen Dulles.  Beneath him was Chief Rowley and his assistant Paul Paterni, SS since the 1930's but OSS in WWII in Italy with Angleton.

It's been argued before over who but someone in the SS approved the venue, the Trade Mart over the Womens Building at Fair Park.  The decision determined the route, past the Texas School Book Depository.  Which when an agent whose name escapes me rode the route and rounded the corner from Main onto Houston and saw it was startled, but said nothing a day or two before.  The turns from Main onto Houston and it onto Elm violated SS protocol.  Then there is the agents on the bumper and running boards controversy, debunked by Vince Palamara.

Was the Cellar part of Beforehand?  After Wahington to San Antonio to Houston to Fort Worth was it a planned respite for some of his SS team?  They didn't serve alcohol, though the owner provided it for some guests.  A block or two from the Hotel where JFK spent his last night on earth.  

The Assassination.

Sarting at Love Field.  Motorcycle cops ordered to stay behind the rear wheels that morning.  Obviously by the DPD, but, from higher authority?  Facilitates an unobstructed frontal shot.  The order of the cars, no press truck in front of JFK's limo as per normal.  SSA in Charge Emory Roberts waving off Agent Rybka at Love Field.  After he had instructed them to not respond to any unusual actions during the parade.  Then him telling Agent Ready on the running board beside him in Dealy Plaza as he stepped off it at the sound of shots to get back on board.  As agent Greer slowed the limo way below protocol or stopped it.

The Cover Up. 

Did it start at Parkland with taking the body, or an empty casket, to prevent a required autopsy there?  It was certainly in effect when Chief Rowley ordered Inspector General Kelly to Dallas who called in Agent Moore from Seattle to convince Dr. Perry the throat wound Might be one of exit.  

[Denise Hazelwood]

Half of the SS agents in the follow up car had been out drinking the night before and into the morning of the assassination. Hickey wasn’t among them, but he was handling a defective AR-15 prone to slam fire. Doesn’t cover up of an embarrassing AR-15 accident and the embarrassingly slow response of the other agents explain a lot of the shenanigans surrounding the case? I don’t know about the rest, but it was a political trip. Having the press immediately in front of the President’s car might have given fear of the impression that the motorcade was more of a photo op than being out there to meet the people. There was a lot of incompetence in the planning and security implementation, certainly. If the assassination had not occurred, no one would be thinking anything about the escort arrangements or vehicle order. So I guess the next questions I would have a  whether different escort arrangements or switching the order of the vehicles to not put the press in front of the President’s car had ever been done for any other motorcade? And don’t forget that this was a very unusual trip in that Jackie was also on it. How many motorcades had she participated in, and were the press immediately ahead and looking back in those motorcades? Who ordered the “last minute” switch, and what did they say about the reason for it?

[Richard Bertolino]

J

Edited May 16 by Richard Bertolino

[Bill Fite]

The source of the SS credentials for the man on the grassy knoll are suspect.

 

[Richard Bertolino]

On 5/14/2024 at 4:14 AM, Bill Fite said:

The source of the SS credentials for the man on the grassy knoll are suspect.

 

Y

Edited May 16 by Richard Bertolino

[Denise Hazelwood]

5 hours ago, Richard Bertolino said:

Just so long as Greer wasn't involved, you're okay.

Greer was involved only inasmuch as he idiotically “tapped the brake to test the tires” (per Clint Hill) when he thought he had a tire blowout and didn’t realize that there was a shooting taking place. But he didn’t shoot Kennedy or anything like that, as some people believe.

[Richard Bertolino]

On 5/14/2024 at 7:56 AM, Denise Hazelwood said:

Greer was involved only inasmuch as he idiotically “tapped the brake to test the tires” (per Clint Hill) when he thought he had a tire blowout and didn’t realize that there was a shooting taking place. But he didn’t shoot Kennedy or anything like that, as some people believe.

O

Edited May 16 by Richard Bertolino

[Steve Thomas]

I don't remember the details off the top of my head, but in case of an attack, the job of the Secret Service was to protect the President, not to engage in a firefight with any prospective attackers. A car full of Dallas Police Detectives armed with machine guns was supposed to be in the parade for that purpose.

That plan was scrapped; to the surprise of Captain Fritz, if I remember right.

Steve Thomas

[Kevin Balch]

Rybka was assigned to Love Field during the Dallas leg of the trip. He wasn’t supposed to accompany the motorcade.

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/palamara/ssrosters.html

[Denise Hazelwood]

3 hours ago, Bill Fite said:

The source of the SS credentials for the man on the grassy knoll are suspect.

I contend that the “fake” SS agent on the Knoll was Lem Johns.  The Newman’s (and others) described plainclothes men with guns 2-3 cars behind the President exiting the motorcade vehicle and running up the Knoll with guns drawn. Paul Landis admitted to pointing at a (Black) man who looked suspicious to him on the stairs. Johns and Warren Taylor admitted to stepping out of their car “momentarily.” The car can be seen in the (Couch, I believe) film stopped or parked on the left side of Elm Street and speeding past motorcade bus on Stemmons Freeway. I think there was probably a 3rd agent in the middle of the rear seat of their car (the “Blond agent”) who also exited the vehicle. (Why else would they put 3 people in the front seat but only 2 in the back, crowding the driver when they didn’t need to?) I think the angents all ran up the hill after the Black man, and something happened at the top of the stairs to account for the purported “pool of blood” in that location. (Note Ricky Chism’s account of his father being tackled by police or SS as he tried to flee with the young boy.) I think that Taylor ran back down and got back in the car and then the car sped off to Parkland, passing the busses, etc. There was a report of Roy Kellerman or Emory Roberts ordering some of JFK’s protective agents to help guard LBJ, a mention in the SFM Couch interview of a SS agent asking for a phone and placing a piece of brain tissue on the desk while he used the phone (apparently told to Gary Mack by a “secretary”—I asked Stephen Fagin about it but he didn’t know anything more than that). Then there’s Oswald’s purported encounter with a “blond agent” who was asking for a phone. I also think that Johns had a good 15 minutes or maybe even more in Dealey Plaza before he got a ride to Parkland with the newsmen who got out of their cars to take pictures of the Newman family and whatever else they thought was interesting. Hill Newman later said that he was embarrassed by how long they had stayed on the ground. And Couch or whoever it was that offered Johns a ride encountered him at the top of the hill, not on the road. All covered up because it was against SS protocol to go chasing after believed shooters and leaving the protectee. The correct protocol was to “cover and evacuate.” Plus the embarrassment of whatever happened at the top of the stairs.  (1963, a Black man trying to run away from the scene, reports of racism in the SS by Abraham Bolden… We have problems with racial discrimination in today’s law enforcement, and I imagine that it was worse back then.)

[Denise Hazelwood]

8 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

I don't remember the details off the top of my head, but in case of an attack, the job of the Secret Service was to protect the President, not to engage in a firefight with any prospective attackers

“Cover and evacuate” was the protocol, which was broken.

 

10 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

A car full of Dallas Police Detectives armed with machine guns was supposed to be in the parade for that purpose.

That plan was scrapped; to the surprise of Captain Fritz, if I remember right.

Source, please. Machine guns? In a crowd setting?

[Steve Thomas]

8 hours ago, Denise Hazelwood said:

“Cover and evacuate” was the protocol, which was broken.

 

Source, please. Machine guns? In a crowd setting?

Denise,

Like I said, I don't remember where I read this, but the change took place on the evening of November 21st, and it took the DPD by surprise.

A car full of policemen armed with tommy guns would not be totally out of line in light of what happened to Charles DeGaulle at Petit-Clamart in August, 1962.

wc testimony of Will Fritz

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/fritz1.htm

Mr. BALL. On November 22, 1963, you had been told the President or before November 22, 1963, you had been told that the President was coming to Dallas?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And had you taken certain precautions for his safety?
Mr. FRITZ. Well, we had taken some precautions but those were changed. We were told in the beginning that we would be in the parade directly behind it, I don't know whether it was the second or third car, but the Vice President's car, that we would be directly behind that, and we did make preparation for that.
But at 10 o'clock the night before the parade, Chief Stevenson called me at home and told me that had been changed, and I was assigned with two of my officers to the speakers' stand at the Trade Mart.

 

Captain. Purdue Lawrence was in charge of traffic control and parade security.

He was sumoned to a meeting on the afternoon of the 21st. William Lawson of the Secret Service was meeting with Curry and the Assistant Police Chiefs. They had already been meeting before he arrived:

WC testimony of Purdue Lawrence

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/lawrence.htm

Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you receive another set of instructions or orders after that?
Captain LAWRENCE. Yes; on the evening of November 21, this was the first time that I had attended any security meeting at all in regards to this motorcade. At approximately 5 p.m. I was told to report to the conference room on the third floor, and when I arrived at the conference room the deputy chiefs were in there, there were members of the Secret Service--Mr. Sorrels, Captain Gannaway, Captain Souter of radio patrol, and Capt. Glen King, deputy

chiefs, assistant chiefs, and Chief Curry, and one gentleman, who I assume was in charge of the security for the Secret Service.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you met with the Secret Service, what do you recall that the Secret Service did discuss?
Captain LAWRENCE. I sat in on the discussion and I did not participate in any at all, and from what I heard there would be sufficient personnel inside the Trade Mart--they were discussing this, and these detectives assignments were not the ones that I was at that time primarily instructed in, so--I know that they had made some elaborate precautions, which no one discussed with me, but I don't remember all of the conversation that went on regarding that. I was particularly interested in traffic assignments and these were the ones I was listening for.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Was there ever any discussion that you heard about taking precautions designed to prevent some sort of assault on the President that would be more severe than simply placards, picketing, and people throwing rotten eggs and vegetables, and things like that?
Captain LAWRENCE. Not to my knowledge, other than the fact that the Secret Service man in there--when it was mentioned about these motorcycle officers alongside the Presidents car, he said, "No, these officers should be back and if any people started a rush toward the car, if there was any movement at all where the President was endangered in any way, these officers would be in a position to gun their motors and get between them and the Presidential car," and he mentioned, of course, the security and safety of the President and those words were mentioned.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But was that concept of the security and the safety of the President spelled out in any certain details?
Captain LAWRENCE. Not to my knowledge. Now, you see, I'm not familiar with .some of the things that were discussed with the other bureau commanders.

 

Now, someone who was there was Assistant Police Chief, M.Stevenson.

He submitted a combined after-action report signed by him, Charles Batchelor, and Charled L. Lumpkin. In their combined report, Stevenson wrote,

Combined After-Action Report of Assist Police Chiefs, M.W. Stevenson, Charles Batchelor and

Charles L. Lumpkin

Stevenson Ex 5053

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1138#relPageId=594

CE XXI, pp. 570-71

 

It was Lawson who nixed the idea.

Steve Thomas

[Denise Hazelwood]

I can't speak to the Curry and Lawrence testimonies, but as to the second, where Lawson seems to re-direct the conversation, it seems to me that what he was saying was that a SS follow-up car would be immediately behind Johnson, and was not commenting that a marked police car couldn't be behind that. Then he takes a sort of tangent and says that they want a police car at the end of the motorcade (again, not saying they can't have another one before the end. Meanwhile, there were motorcycle officers scattered throughout the motorcade, so it wasn't like there was zero DPD presence in the motorcade. Conversations do that, to off on tangents. Stevenson didn't seem to ask for a DPD car immediately behind Johnson's SS follow-up car. 

Again, I can't speak to the last minute changes from the Curry and Lawrence testimonies, but Curry was riding in the car immediately ahead of JFK's car, and motorcycle officers were positioned throughout the motorcade. The security measures were insufficient, of course, and the planning was definitely sloppy (the only thing that seemed to be considered was people rushing up to the car, not potential snipers in windows overlooking the motorcade). Even Lawrence seemed rather sloppy in that he "wasn't familiar" with everything that had been discussed, and the first discussion with Lawrence didn't take place until 5pm the evening before. Sloppy and careless, absolutely. Nefarious? I can't say. I think it unlikely that the SS were part of any plot to murder the President, however. They were reportedly understaffed, which likely contributed to all of this, too. But I think the most likely culprits were overwork, understaffed, complacency, heavy drinking, carelessness, lack of planning--that sort of thing, rather than SS planning to kill their protectee.

Hanlon's Razor: Don't attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.

[Vince Palamara]

11 hours ago, Denise Hazelwood said:

I contend that the “fake” SS agent on the Knoll was Lem Johns.  The Newman’s (and others) described plainclothes men with guns 2-3 cars behind the President exiting the motorcade vehicle and running up the Knoll with guns drawn. Paul Landis admitted to pointing at a (Black) man who looked suspicious to him on the stairs. Johns and Warren Taylor admitted to stepping out of their car “momentarily.” The car can be seen in the (Couch, I believe) film stopped or parked on the left side of Elm Street and speeding past motorcade bus on Stemmons Freeway. I think there was probably a 3rd agent in the middle of the rear seat of their car (the “Blond agent”) who also exited the vehicle. (Why else would they put 3 people in the front seat but only 2 in the back, crowding the driver when they didn’t need to?) I think the angents all ran up the hill after the Black man, and something happened at the top of the stairs to account for the purported “pool of blood” in that location. (Note Ricky Chism’s account of his father being tackled by police or SS as he tried to flee with the young boy.) I think that Taylor ran back down and got back in the car and then the car sped off to Parkland, passing the busses, etc. There was a report of Roy Kellerman or Emory Roberts ordering some of JFK’s protective agents to help guard LBJ, a mention in the SFM Couch interview of a SS agent asking for a phone and placing a piece of brain tissue on the desk while he used the phone (apparently told to Gary Mack by a “secretary”—I asked Stephen Fagin about it but he didn’t know anything more than that). Then there’s Oswald’s purported encounter with a “blond agent” who was asking for a phone. I also think that Johns had a good 15 minutes or maybe even more in Dealey Plaza before he got a ride to Parkland with the newsmen who got out of their cars to take pictures of the Newman family and whatever else they thought was interesting. Hill Newman later said that he was embarrassed by how long they had stayed on the ground. And Couch or whoever it was that offered Johns a ride encountered him at the top of the hill, not on the road. All covered up because it was against SS protocol to go chasing after believed shooters and leaving the protectee. The correct protocol was to “cover and evacuate.” Plus the embarrassment of whatever happened at the top of the stairs.  (1963, a Black man trying to run away from the scene, reports of racism in the SS by Abraham Bolden… We have problems with racial discrimination in today’s law enforcement, and I imagine that it was worse back then.)

Johns was adamant to me in 2004 that he was NOT the knoll agent and never left the street. See also this video:

 

[Vince Palamara]

20 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I've come to believe over the years that some agents in the Secret Service were involved in the John F. Kennedy assassination beforehand, during the assassination itself, and the cover-up afterwards.

Beforehand. 

Let's keep in mind here the true head of the Secret Service was the Secretary of the Treasury, C. Douglass Dillon, appointed by JFK.  Not a friend of his, but friends of JFK critic John D. Rockefeller and his employee Allen Dulles.  Beneath him was Chief Rowley and his assistant Paul Paterni, SS since the 1930's but OSS in WWII in Italy with Angleton.

It's been argued before over who but someone in the SS approved the venue, the Trade Mart over the Womens Building at Fair Park.  The decision determined the route, past the Texas School Book Depository.  Which when an agent whose name escapes me rode the route and rounded the corner from Main onto Houston and saw it was startled, but said nothing a day or two before.  The turns from Main onto Houston and it onto Elm violated SS protocol.  Then there is the agents on the bumper and running boards controversy, debunked by Vince Palamara.

Was the Cellar part of Beforehand?  After Wahington to San Antonio to Houston to Fort Worth was it a planned respite for some of his SS team?  They didn't serve alcohol, though the owner provided it for some guests.  A block or two from the Hotel where JFK spent his last night on earth.  

The Assassination.

Sarting at Love Field.  Motorcycle cops ordered to stay behind the rear wheels that morning.  Obviously by the DPD, but, from higher authority?  Facilitates an unobstructed frontal shot.  The order of the cars, no press truck in front of JFK's limo as per normal.  SSA in Charge Emory Roberts waving off Agent Rybka at Love Field.  After he had instructed them to not respond to any unusual actions during the parade.  Then him telling Agent Ready on the running board beside him in Dealy Plaza as he stepped off it at the sound of shots to get back on board.  As agent Greer slowed the limo way below protocol or stopped it.

The Cover Up. 

Did it start at Parkland with taking the body, or an empty casket, to prevent a required autopsy there?  It was certainly in effect when Chief Rowley ordered Inspector General Kelly to Dallas who called in Agent Moore from Seattle to convince Dr. Perry the throat wound Might be one of exit.  

Thanks so much, Ron; greatly appreciated.