The slump

[Eddy Bainbridge]

Abraham Zapruder described JFK slumping in a TV interview. Dan Rather describes something similar. I can't see what they are describing. Is there a catalogue of slump witnesses?

My theory of the shooting relies on JFK's head position matching the Rydberg drawing at some point. You can then make simple sense of the headwounds and shot directions.

[Kevin Balch]

I think it’s his lean to the left with his head leaning down after the throat shot. I think a shot from above and behind entered the skull in the back, coursed tangentially across the right side of the skull and exited near the right temple. Dr. Perry did mention a “tangential wound” in the afternoon press conference which is the earliest recorded observation by anyone in the emergency room. And that is what is shown in the Zapruder film.

Whether enough of the momentum of the bullet (10 grams at ~600 m/s) deposited from an off-center hit of the skull combined with an exit of skull and brain matter (perhaps several hundred grams at ~ 10 m/s) could have provided enough of an impulse to account for the back and left motion of a 170 kg incapacitated man is an interesting question.

[Sandy Larsen]

5 hours ago, Eddy Bainbridge said:

My theory of the shooting relies on JFK's head position matching the Rydberg drawing at some point.

 

 

Your theory can be true only if:

1. ...the Zapruder film has been altered, given that it shows the large blowout wound to be centered around the right temple, not above the right ear. (Which is what the Rydberg drawing shows.)
2. ...the huge majority of ~45 gaping wound witnesses got the location wrong. Nearly every single one said the gaping wound was on the back of the head, not the top of the head above the right ear.

So therefore your theory is ridiculous.

Rather than trying to convince yourself that the WC didn't cover up the damning medical evidence which proves conspiracy, why not just accept the obvious fact that they did?

Most CTers know that a gunshot from the front (or possibly side) caused the blowout in the back of the head seen by nearly every witness. Most CTers know that a few Z film frames were altered to remove the blowout wound from the back of the head and to create a new one near the right-temple area. Most CTers know that the autopsists misreported the gaping wound being above the right ear instead of the back of the head. Oops! these two alterations contradict each other. Mistakes occur in coverups, and in this one the autopsy report didn't place the  gaping wound in quite the same place as the altered Z-film placed it!

 

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Kevin Balch said:

I think a shot from above and behind entered the skull in the back, coursed tangentially across the right side of the skull and exited near the right temple.

1 hour ago, Kevin Balch said:

Dr. Perry did mention a “tangential wound” in the afternoon press conference which is the earliest recorded observation by anyone in the emergency room.

 

First, I'm pretty sure that you meant Dr. Clark, not Perry. Here is what Dr. Clark said in the news conference:

"The head wound could have been either the exit wound from the neck or it could have been a tangential wound, as it was simply a large, gaping loss of tissue."

He clearly was referring to a gaping exit wound on the back of the head and not the top of the head. Because he surmised the entrance wound for the gaping exit might have been the neck (throat) wound. Besides, all of his other early notes and statements support the back-of-head location.

 

1 hour ago, Kevin Balch said:

And that is what is shown in the Zapruder film.

 

No, what Dr. Clark described is not what is seen in the Zapruder film. He saw a gaping hole in the back of the head. The Zapruder film shows a gaping wound at Kennedy's right temple.

Now, what you yourself describe is indeed what the Zapruder film shows. Problem is, not a single witness saw what the Z-film shows... a gaping wound of the temple. Furthermore, the autopsy photos contradict the location of the Zapruder's gaping wound.

 

[Eddy Bainbridge]

48 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

 

Your theory can be true only if:

1. ...the Zapruder film has been altered, given that it shows the large blowout wound to be centered around the right temple, not above the right ear. (Which is what the Rydberg drawing shows.)
2. ...the huge majority of ~45 gaping wound witnesses got the location wrong. Nearly every single one said the gaping wound was on the back of the head, not the top of the head above the right ear.

So therefore your theory is ridiculous.

Rather than trying to convince yourself that the WC didn't cover up the damning medical evidence which proves conspiracy, why not just accept the obvious fact that they did?

Most CTers know that a gunshot from the front (or possibly side) caused the blowout in the back of the head seen by nearly every witness. Most CTers know that a few Z film frames were altered to remove the blowout wound from the back of the head and to create a new one near the right-temple area. Most CTers know that the autopsists misreported the gaping wound being above the right ear instead of the back of the head. Oops! these two alterations contradict each other. Mistakes occur in coverups, and in this one the autopsy report didn't place the  gaping wound in quite the same place as the altered Z-film placed it!

 

That's pretty poor reading of my post. Hey ho. The entrance shown in the Ryberg diagram agrees with the fairly adamant autopsy surgeons. But.. The head angle doesn't match for a rear shot from above. I don't agree with the Rydberg depiction of the exit. I believe this rear shot was seen exiting by the Newmans and Zapruder.

The second, rapidly following headshot was from the front and caused the large rear blow-out. Simple and matching of most facts, other than the extant z film.

 

 

 

 

 

[Pat Speer]

7 hours ago, Eddy Bainbridge said:

Abraham Zapruder described JFK slumping in a TV interview. Dan Rather describes something similar. I can't see what they are describing. Is there a catalogue of slump witnesses?

My theory of the shooting relies on JFK's head position matching the Rydberg drawing at some point. You can then make simple sense of the headwounds and shot directions.

The doctors asked an artist to sketch a trajectory connecting the wounds for a shot fired from above. They weren't reviewing the Z-film at the time. When shown a still from the Z-film in his testimony, moreover, Humes said the trajectory was close enough or some such thing. But no one really believed it.

Researchers like Thompson seized upon this as a problem for the single-assassin solution, and the government agreed. And convened a secret panel of doctors to solve the problem. Well, they solved it alright. They concluded the brain wasn't damaged on a low to high trajectory and that the only way to preserve the single-assassin solution was to  insist the autopsy doctors were in error, and that the bullet actually entered inches higher on the skull--where no one at the autopsy saw an entrance wound. 

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Eddy Bainbridge said:

That's pretty poor reading of my post.

 

My apologies.

 

[Joe Bauer]

JFK did slump leftward and downward toward Jackie within 3 to 5 seconds after the throat wound partially because Jackie was pulling him toward her in an instinctive protective mode.

When JFK's head was within a foot of Jackie's upper body is when his entire skull exploded from the head shot.

If the Zapruder film accurately depicted the shot impact we see a massive cloud of bright pink spray eject upward. Obviously the spray consisted of blood and brain fluid and matter.

My estimate after viewing the frame hundreds of times is this cloud went up 5 feet or more and then spreading out at least that distance around. 

The laws of physics would suggest that the cloud settled not just around the back seat area of the presidential limo but also behind it as the limo was moving out from under it during it's fall back to the ground.

I feel more than 300 grams of brain tissue was blown on the immediate impact.

If you've got a good amount of JFK's brain "matter" settling on the back seat, some reported on the inner seat car sides, some making it into the driver's area even if a light amount, some hitting Jackie, and enough hitting both rear following motorcycle police officer's so noticeably they testified they could "feel" it hitting them and include the brain matter Jackie was holding onto in her hand until she handed this to one of the Parkland ER doctors ( Dr. Marion T. Jenkins ) ... it's has to be more than 300 grams imo.

Clint Hill testified to the WC that:

Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe as to President Kennedy's condition on arrival at the hospital?
Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.

Then one must also consider the testimony of at least one Parkland Hospital ER physician attending to JFK that even more of JFK's brain matter was lost due to it oozing out onto the table ( or floor? ) while JFK was prone on the exam table and before he was placed in a coffin at Parkland hospital. 

At least one of the attending nurses testified to this oozing brain matter as well.

No matter whether the Z film was altered with different JFK slumping depictions, the more important issue ( imo ) has always been the amount of brain matter blown out or soon thereafter oozed out of JFK's shatter skull before his body even arrived at Bethesda.

 

 

Edited May 19 by Joe Bauer

[Kevin Balch]

6 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

First, I'm pretty sure that you meant Dr. Clark, not Perry. Here is what Dr. Clark said in the news conference:

"The head wound could have been either the exit wound from the neck or it could have been a tangential wound, as it was simply a large, gaping loss of tissue."

He clearly was referring to a gaping exit wound on the back of the head and not the top of the head. Because he surmised the entrance wound for the gaping exit might have been the neck (throat) wound. Besides, all of his other early notes and statements support the back-of-head location.

You are correct. It was Dr. Clark.

I am not disputing that there was a large wound in the back of the head which none of the Parkland doctors would could definitively say whether it was an exit or an entrance based on is size, unlike the throat wound. 

 

6 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

No, what Dr. Clark described is not what is seen in the Zapruder film. He saw a gaping hole in the back of the head. The Zapruder film shows a gaping wound at Kennedy's right temple.

Now, what you yourself describe is indeed what the Zapruder film shows. Problem is, not a single witness saw what the Z-film shows... a gaping wound of the temple. Furthermore, the autopsy photos contradict the location of the Zapruder's gaping wound.

The Zapruder film show a large wound on the right side of the head still attached by a hinge of tissue. The wound was so bad that Jackie Kennedy refused to let go of him until Clint Hill had to cover his head with his coat. It’s possible that Jackie herself might have restored the flap. She did recover brain tissue for the doctors to restore.

I thought everyone agrees the autopsy photos are forgeries or are at least suspect. I am agnostic about that issue since so much doubt and uncertainly has been stirred up about them over the decades.

[Kevin Balch]

4 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

No matter whether the Z film was altered with different JFK slumping depictions, the more important issue ( imo ) has always been the amount of brain matter blown out or soon thereafter oozed out of JFK's shatter skull before his body even arrived at Bethesda.

I recall the autopsy stated the brain weighed approximately 1500 grams which is either wrong or JFK had an unusually large brain.

[Keven Hofeling]

16 hours ago, Eddy Bainbridge said:

Abraham Zapruder described JFK slumping in a TV interview. Dan Rather describes something similar. I can't see what they are describing. Is there a catalogue of slump witnesses?

Yes, there is, as you describe,"a catalogue of slump witnesses," which I will present below, but first let's take a look at the "back and to the left" headshot sequence of the extant "original" Zapruder film, and some transcripts of Dan Rather's description of this segment in order to allow us to appreciate the significance of the "catalogue" you are inquiring about:

A profoundly underappreciated fact in JFKA research circles today is that the violent and pronounced "back and to the left" movement of President Kennedy in the following headshot sequence of the extant "original" Zapruder film is unique to the film itself (as I will demonstrate below):

 

In the following 2015 Education Forum post by @Robert Prudhomme, Mr. Prudhomme addressed two examples from Dan Rather's 11/1963 reports on the camera-original Zapruder film that he viewed that on first impression appear to be inaccurate, and for which Rather has been intensely criticized over the years, and Prudhomme presents independent evidence in support of the accuracy of one of them. Prudhomme's post (https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/21612-dan-rathers-description-of-zapruder-film-corroborated-by-witness/) reads as follows (And NOTE the highlighted passage in bold relating to Rather's reports of JFK's movement upon being shot in the head):

"Below is a link to a Youtube film showing newsman Dan Rather describing his viewing of the Zapruder film on 25/11/63 [This link has been cued for you in advance].

His descriptions vary greatly from what is actually seen in the version of the Z film we see today. I had put this down to Mr. Rather misremembering (OMG! Misremembering? I just used a classic LN verb) what he had seen but, after reading some eyewitness testimony today, I believe he was describing exactly what he saw.

At about 1:34 in this film, Mr. Rather describes Gov. John Connally turning in his seat, and extending his right hand towards JFK. Of course, no such thing can be seen in today's version of the Z film. However, read this excerpt from the WC testimony of eyewitness S.M. Holland, a railroad worker who saw the assassination unfold from atop the Triple Underpass.

"Mr. HOLLAND - And the motorcade was coming down in this fashion, and the President was waving to the people on this side [indicating].

Mr. STERN - That is the north side of Elm Street?
Mr. HOLLAND - Yes; On the north side.
Mr. STERN - All right.
Mr. HOLLAND - And she was looking in this direction [indicating].
Mr. STERN - "She," is Mrs. Kennedy?
Mr. HOLLAND - His wife. And about that time---
Mr. STERN - Was looking in a southern direction?
Mr. HOLLAND - In the southern direction.
Mr. STERN - South side of Elm Street?
Mr. HOLLAND - And about that time he went over like that [indicating], and put his hand up, and she was still looking off, as well as I could tell.
Mr. STERN - Now, when you say, "he went like that," you leaned forward and raised your right hand?
Mr. HOLLAND - Pulled forward and hand just stood like that momentarily.
Mr. STERN - With his right hand?
Mr. HOLLAND - His right hand; and that was the first report that I heard.
Mr. STERN - What did it sound like?
Mr. HOLLAND - Well, it was pretty loud, and naturally, underneath this underpass here it would be a little louder, the concussion from underneath it, it was a pretty loud report, and the car traveled a few yards, and Governor Connally turned in this fashion, like that [indicating] with his hand out, and another report.
Mr. STERN - With his right hand out?
Mr. HOLLAND - Turning to his right.
Mr. STERN - To his right?
Mr. HOLLAND - And another report rang out and he slumped down in his seat, and about that time Mrs. Kennedy was looking at these girls over here [indicating]. The girls standing---now one of them was taking a picture, and the other one was just standing there, and she turned around facing the President and Governor Connally. In other words, she realized what was happening, I guess.
Now, I mean, that was apparently that---she turned back around, and by the time she could get turned around he was hit again along in---I'd say along in here [indicating].
Mr. STERN - How do you know that? Did you observe that?
Mr. HOLLAND - I observed it. It knocked him completely down on the floor. Over, just slumped completely over. That second---
Mr. STERN - Did you hear a third report?
Mr. HOLLAND - I heard a third report and I counted four shots and about the same time all this was happening, and in this group of trees--[indicating].
Mr. STERN - Now, you are indicating trees on the north side of Elm Street?"

So, Dan rather was not the only one to see Connally extend his hand out. Is this more proof of alteration of the Z film?

We have @Pat Speer to thank for the following transcripts of Dan Rather's reports about what he viewed in the camera-original Zapruder film, which Speer emphasized, without realizing the significance of what he was highlighting. In short, Dan Rather, like Sam Holland above and those that follow below did not see or report to the American public the violent "back and to the left" reaction of JFK that is so prominent in the extant "original" Zapruder film today. The following is excerpted from PatSpeer.com (https://www.patspeer.com/jahs-chapter-4 ) :

"...Wrong-Way Rather

Meanwhile, in radio and TV land, a whole new reign of error was beginning. CBS newsman Dan Rather, after viewing the home movie of the assassination taken by Abraham Zapruder, rushed back to the studio to describe the film for CBS News' radio and television audience. His description was to have many unfortunate consequences. (This first transcript was published by Richard Trask in Pictures of the Pain.)

Dan Rather (Radio Take 1): "Well, let me tell you then, give you a word picture of the motion picture we have just seen. The President's automobile which was preceded by only one other car containing Secret Service Agents...the President's open black Lincoln automobile made a turn, a left turn off of Houston Street in Dallas onto Elm Street, this was right on the fringe area of the downtown area. This left turn was made right below the window from which the shot was fired...as the car made the turn, completed the turn--went below the window from which this shot was fired...went on past the building--keep in mind the window was on the sixth floor...it got about 35 yards from the base of the building...that is if you had dropped a plumb line from the window to the sidewalk to...the President's car was around 35 yards from that spot...President Kennedy had just put his right hand up to the side of his right eye. It appeared that he was perhaps brushing back his hair or rubbing his eyebrow. Mrs. Kennedy was not looking in his direction. In front of them in the jump seat of the Lincoln...were Governor and Mrs. Connally. The Governor, as was the President, was on the side of the car of the building in which the assassin was located. Mrs. Kennedy and Mrs. Connally were on the opposite side. Two Secret Service men on the front seat...At almost the instant the President put his hand up to his eyebrow...on the right side of his face, with Mrs. Kennedy looking away, the President lurched forward just a bit. Uh, it was obvious he had been hit in the movie but you had to be looking very closely in order to see it. Mrs. Kennedy did not appear to be aware that he was hit but Governor Connally in the seat just in front of the President, seemingly heard the shot...or sensed that something was wrong...Governor Connally, whose coat button was open, turned in such a way to extend his right hand out towards the President and the Governor seemed to have a look on his face that might say "What is it? What happened?" And as he turned he exposed his entire shirt front and chest because his coat was unbuttoned...at that moment a shot very clearly hit that part of the Governor. He was wounded once with a chest shot, this we now know...Uh, the Governor fell back in his seat...Mrs. Connally immediately fell over the Governor. Uh, I say fell, she threw herself over the Governor and at that instant the second shot the third shot total but the second shot hit President Kennedy and there was no doubt there, his head...went forward with considerable violence."

(Note: Rather's description here is quite controversial. As Kennedy's head actually goes slightly forward, and then back and to the left with considerable violence, many see his saying that Kennedy went forward with considerable violence as a deliberate lie designed to sell the American people that the fatal shot came from behind. If it is true that Rather was trying to sell the American people the single-assassin scenario, however, it back-fired, as he also claimed the film showed Connally being hit well after Kennedy had first been hit, which is in conflict with the single-bullet theory so central to the single-assassin conclusion.) 

Rather then described the aftermath of the shooting: "Mrs. Kennedy stood up immediately her mouth wide open...The President slumped over against Mrs. Kennedy almost toppling her over as she was standing...Mrs. Kennedy then threw herself out of the back seat of the car onto the trunk of the car almost on all fours...stretched out over the trunk of the car...There was a Secret Service man standing on the back bumper. It would appear that Mrs. Kennedy was either trying to get herself out of what she knew instinctively was danger or perhaps was trying to grab the Secret Service man and pull him into the back seat of the car for help. At any rate Mrs. Kennedy was prone, uh face down on the back of the car on the trunk...The Secret Service man leaned over put his hands on her shoulders and shoved her back into the car. He seemed to be in danger of perhaps rolling or falling off the back. A Secret Service man in the front seat of the car uh was already on the telephone perhaps he had been on the phone all along it was not clear and the car sped away."

Rather then answered a few questions from his fellow newsmen Richard Hotelett and Hughes Rudd. When asked if the limo ever stopped, he replied "The car never stopped, it never paused." When asked the length of the film, he replied "Well, the complete scene that I just described to you covers exactly 20 seconds--that is from the time the car made the turn until the car disappeared onto an underpass." When asked if the President was hit twice, he then added: "It was very clear that the President was hit twice. He was hit, Governor Connally was hit and the Gov...uh the President was hit again." When asked the length of the shooting sequence itself, he then offered: "No more than five seconds and I...am inclined to think slightly less than that perhaps."

(Note: when all is said and done, this was perhaps Rather's biggest mistake. By assuming that the fatal head shot was the third shot, and timing the shooting sequence from the first hit to the final hit, without accepting that there could have been a miss--without studying the eyewitness testimony, moreover, to see that there very likely was a miss--Rather thoroughly misled the public.)

Rather was then rushed onto television to describe the film to Walter Cronkite during CBS News' ongoing coverage of the assassination and aftermath. The time was approximately 4:07 PM EST. (Transcript created from the video on Youtube.)

Dan Rather (TV Take 1): "We have just returned from seeing a complete motion picture of the moments preceding, and the moments of, President Kennedy’s assassination and the shooting of Texas Governor John Connally. Here is what the motion picture shows. The automobile, the black Lincoln convertible, with the top down - carrying, in the front seat, two secret service agents; in the middle, or jump seat, the Governor and Mrs. Connally; and, in the rear seat, President and Mrs. Kennedy – made a turn off of Houston Street, on the fringe of downtown Dallas, on to Elm Street. This was a left turn and was made right in front of the building from which the assassin’s bullet was fired. After making the turn, and going about 35 yards from the corner of the building – six stories up in which the assassin had a window open – and keep in mind here that President Kennedy and Governor Connally are seated on, both on the same side of the car, on the side facing the building. Mrs. Kennedy and Mrs. Connally are on the side of the car away from the assassin. About 35 yards from the base of the building, President Kennedy, in the film, put his hand up to the right side of his face, the side facing the assassin. He seemingly wanted to brush back his hair, or perhaps rub his eyebrow. Mrs. Kennedy at this moment was looking away, or looking straight ahead. She was not looking at her husband. At that moment, when the President had his right hand up to this side of his face (gestures), he lurched just a bit forward. It was obvious that the first shot had hit him. Mrs. Kennedy was not looking at him, nor did she appear to know at that instant that her husband had been hit. Governor Connally, in the seat immediately in front of the President, apparently either heard the shot or sensed that something was wrong because, Governor Connally, with his coat open, his button was undone, turned in this manner (turns back to his right with right arm extended), his hand outstretched, back toward the President; and the Governor had a look on his face that would indicate he perhaps was saying “What’s wrong?” or “What happened?” or “Can I help?” or something. But as Governor Connally was turned this way, his white shirt front exposed well to the view of the assassin, the Governor was obviously hit by a bullet, and he fell over to the side. Governor Connally’s wife, immediately, seemingly instantaneously, placed herself over her husband in a protective position, it appeared; and as Governor Connally fell back, President Kennedy was still leaned over. At that moment another bullet obviously hit the head of the President. The President’s head went forward, violently, in this manner (gestures). Mrs. Kennedy, at that instant, seemed to be looking right-square at her husband. She stood up. The President slumped over to the side and, I believe, brushed against Mrs. Kennedy’s dress. Mrs. Kennedy immediately turned and flung herself on the trunk of the automobile, face-down on the trunk, almost on all-fours. The First Lady appeared to be either frantically trying to get the secret service man who was riding on the bumper of the car - the single secret service man riding on that bumper - to come into the car or to tell him what had happened; or perhaps, from the picture, it appeared she might have been trying to get out of the car some way. The car never stopped. The secret service man in the front seat had a telephone in his hand. The car…its acceleration increased rapidly and it disappeared under an underpass. Three shots - the first one hitting President Kennedy, the second one hitting Governor Connally, the third one hitting the President – consumed, possibly, five seconds. Not much more than that, if any. That is the scene shown in about twenty seconds of film that the FBI has in its possession. The film was taken by an amateur photographer who was in a very advantageous position, and who had his camera trained on the President’s car from the time it made the turn in front of the assassin until it disappeared on its way to the hospital. This is Dan Rather in Dallas."

A short time later, he once again described the film to Cronkite. The time was approximately 4:21 PM EST. (Transcript created from the video on Youtube).

Dan Rather (TV Take 2): "We have just returned from seeing a complete motion picture of the moments immediately preceding, and the moments of, President Kennedy’s assassination. The motion picture shows the limousine carrying: in the front seat, two secret service men; in the middle, or jump seat, Governor and Mrs. John  Connally of Texas; and, in the rear seat, President and Mrs. Kennedy; a single secret service man standing on the back bumper; the top of the black Lincoln convertible down. The car made a turn, a left turn, off of Houston Street, on to Elm Street, on the fringe of Dallas’ down-town area; that turn made directly below the sixth floor window from which the assassin’s bullets came. After the left turn was completed, the automobile, with only one car in front of it - a secret service car immediately in front – the President’s car proceeded about 35 yards from the base of the building in which the assassin was. President Kennedy and Governor Connally were seated on the same side of the open car, the side facing the building: Mrs. Kennedy and Mrs. Connally on the side of the car opposite the assassin. President Kennedy is clearly shown to put his right hand up to the side of his face as if to either brush back his hair, or perhaps rub his eyebrow. Mrs. Kennedy at that instant is looking away, and is not looking at the President. At almost that instant, when the President has his hand up to this side of his face (gestures), he lurches forward something in this manner (gestures): The first shot had hit him. Mrs. Kennedy appeared not to notice. Governor Connally, in the seat right in front of the President – by the way, the Governor had his suit coat open, his suit was not buttoned – perhaps either heard the shot or somehow he knew something was wrong because the picture shows just after that first shot hit the President, the Governor turned in something this manner, with his right arm stretched back toward the President, as if to say “What’s wrong?” or “What happened?” or say something. It exposed the entire white front shirt of the Governor to the full view of the assassin’s window; and as the Governor was in this position, and President Kennedy behind him was slumped slightly over, a shot clearly hit the front of Governor Connally; and the Governor fell back over toward his wife. Mrs. Connally immediately put herself over her husband in a protective position, and as she did so, in the back seat, this time with Mrs. Kennedy’s eyes apparently right on her husband, the second shot – the third shot in all – the second shot hit the President’s head. His head went forward, in a violent motion, pushing it down like this (leans forward, lowering his head as he does so). Mrs. Kennedy was on her feet immediately. The President fell over in this direction (leans to his left). It appeared his head probably brushed or hit against Mrs. Kennedy’s legs. The First Lady almost immediately tried to crawl on – did crawl on - to the trunk of the car, face-down, her whole body almost was on that trunk, in something of an all-fours position. She appeared to be either trying to desperately get the attention of the secret service man on the back bumper, or perhaps she was stretching out toward him to grab him, to try to get him in. Or perhaps even trying to get herself out of the car. But the car was moving all the time, and the car never stopped. The secret service man on the back bumper leaned way over and put his hands on Mrs. Kennedy’s shoulders – she appeared to be in some danger of falling or rolling off that trunk lid. He pushed her back into the back seat of the car. In the front seat, a secret service man was with a phone in his hand. The car speeded up and sped away. It never stopped, the car never paused. That’s what the film of the assassination showed. The film was taken by an amateur photographer who had placed himself in an advantageous position: eight millimeter color film. This is Dan Rather in Dallas."

And that wasn't the last of it. Several hours later (one source claims at 8:26 PM EST) Rather described the film to Cronkite for a third and final time, and compounded his mistakes. (Transcript created from the video on Youtube.)

Dan Rather (TV Take 3): "The films we saw were taken by an amateur photographer, who had a particularly good vantage point, just past the building from which the fatal shot was fired. The films show President Kennedy's open, black limousine, making a left turn, off Houston Street on to Elm Street on the fringe of downtown Dallas, a left turn made just below the window in which the assassin was waiting. About 35 yards past the very base of the building, just below the window, President Kennedy could be seen to, to put his right hand, up to the side of his head to, either brush back his hair or perhaps rub his eyebrow. President Kennedy was sitting on the same side of the car, as the building from which the shot came. Mrs. Kennedy was by his side. In the jump seat in front of him, Mrs. Connally, and Governor Connally, Governor Connally on the same side of the car as the president. And in the front seat, two Secret Service men. Just as the president put that right hand up to the side of his head, he, you could see him, lurch forward. The first shot had hit him. Mrs. Kennedy was looking in another direction, and apparently didn't see, or sense the first shot, or didn't hear it. But Governor Connally, in the seat in front, appeared to have heard it, or at least sensed that something was wrong. The Governor's coat was open. He, he reached back in this fashion, exposing his white shirt front to the assassin’s window, reached back as if to, to offer aid or ask the president something. At that moment, a shot clearly hit the governor, in the front, and he fell back in his seat. Mrs. Connally immediately threw herself over him in a protective position. In the next instant, with this time Mrs. Kennedy apparently looking on, a second shot, the third total shot, hit the president's head. He, his head can be seen to move violently forward. And, Mrs. Kennedy stood up immediately, the president leaned over her way. It appeared that he might have brushed her legs. Mrs. Kennedy then, literally went on the top of the trunk, of the Lincoln car, p-put practically her whole body on the trunk. It, it appeared she might have been on all fours, there, reaching out for the Secret Service man, the lone Secret Service man who was riding on the bumper of the car, the back bumper on Mrs. Kennedy's side. Uh, the Secret Service man leaned forward and put his hands on Mrs. Kennedy's shoulder to, push her back into the car. She was in some danger, it appeared, of rolling off or falling off. And when we described this before, there was some question about what we meant by Mrs. Kennedy being on the trunk of the car. Only she knows, but it appeared that she was trying desperately to, to get the Secret Service man's attention or perhaps to help pull him into the car. The car never stopped, it never paused. In the front seat, a Secret Service man was, was on the telephone. The car picked up speed, and disappeared beneath an underpass. This is Dan Rather in Dallas."

(Note: in this, his fourth and final description of the Zapruder film, Rather repeated his inaccurate claim Kennedy's head went forward in response to the fatal head shot, but retreated from his speculation Mrs. Kennedy climbed onto the back of the limo while instinctively running from danger. In his 1977 book, The Camera Never Blinks, in which he acknowledged his mistake about the movement of Kennedy's head, but mistakenly claimed that he viewed the film on Saturday the 23rd, Rather did shed some light on something of interest: the reasons for his retreat. He admitted that "an editor" in New York told him to "leave out the part about her trying to flee." And that he did.)

 

But Rather was not the only one making false assumptions and compromises. An 11-25 AP Dispatch (found in the 11-26 Milwaukee Journal) proves that Rather was not even the only one claiming Kennedy's head jerked forward upon impact long before anyone could possibly have concluded it had indeed jerked slightly forward. It read:

"Dallas, Tex.-AP - A strip of movie film graphically depicting the assassination of President Kennedy was made by a Dallas clothing manufacturer with an 8 millimeter camera.

Several persons in Dallas who have seen the film which lasts about 15 seconds, say it clearly shows how the president was hit in the head with shattering force by the second of two bullets fired by the assassin.

Life magazine reportedly purchased still picture rights to the material for about $40,000.

This is what the film by Abe Zapruder is reported to show:

First the presidential limousine is coming toward the camera. As it comes abreast of the photographer, Mr. Kennedy is hit by the first bullet, apparently in the neck. He turns toward his wife Jacqueline, seated at his left, and she quickly begins to put her hands around his head.

At the same time, Texas Gov. John Connally, riding directly in front of the president, turns around to see what has happened.

Then Mr. Kennedy is hit on the upper right side of the back of his head with violent force. His head goes forward and then snaps back, and he slumps down on the seat.

At this time, Gov. Connolly is wounded and he drops forward on his seat.

Mrs. Kennedy then jumps up and crawls across the back deck of the limousine, apparently seeking the aid of a secret service man who has been trotting behind the slowly moving vehicle. He jumps onto the car and shoves Mrs. Kennedy back into the seat. Then he orders the driver to speed to the hospital where the president died.

The elapsed time from the moment when Mr. Kennedy is first struck until the car disappears in an underpass is about five seconds."

An 11-26 article by John Herbers, published in the 11-27 New York Times, moreover, repeats this same mistake. Herbers writes: 

"The known facts about the bullets, and the position of the assassin, suggested that he started shooting as the President’s car was coming toward him, swung his rifle in an arc of almost 180 degrees and fired at least twice more.

A rifle like the one that killed President Kennedy might be able to fire three shots in two seconds, a gun expert indicated after tests. (Note: this line is found in online versions of this article, but is not in a clipping of the article found in the Weisberg Archives. Perhaps it was only added for evening editions of the paper.)

A strip of color movie film taken by a Dallas clothing manufacturer with an 8-mm camera tends to support this sequence of events.

The film covers about a 15-second period. As the President’s car come abreast of the photographer, the President was struck in the front of the neck. The President turned toward Mrs. Kennedy as she began to put her hands around his head.

Connally Turns Around

At the same time, Governor Connally, riding in front of the President, turned round to see what had happened. Then the President was struck on the head. His head went forward, then snapped back, as he slumped in his seat. At that time, Governor Connally was wounded.

The elapsed time from the moment Mr. Kennedy was first struck until the car disappeared in an underpass was five seconds.”

Now this is interesting. Note that the AP article and the New York Times article make the same mistakes and repeat the same non-fact facts (which I have highlighted). Note that they both claim Connally was wounded by the third shot, for example. This suggests that the AP writer and Herbers were either sharing information or being fed some of the same questionable facts from an outside source, most probably the FBI. Well, then, was their main mistake--that Kennedy's head went forward--something told them by the FBI, and, if so, should we then assume Dan Rather was also told to say this? I mean, really, is it just a coincidence that CBS News, the Associated Press, and The New York Times, in short order, all incorrectly reported that the Zapruder film showed Kennedy's head going forward? That's pretty hard to believe.

Which brings us to UPI's article on the film. Here it is, as found in the 11-26 Philadelphia Daily News (4 star edition).

The headline on the front page reads: “Man Who Came to See JFK Makes Tragic Movie.” Beneath this, there is the following explanation: “These dramatic pictures are from an 8mm ‘home movie’ reel, shot by Dallas dressmaker Abraham Zapruder who went to see President Kennedy ride through cheering throngs in Texas city. His camera recorded one of the most tragic moments in American history. Story page 3.“ Beneath this, are four frames from a home movie of the assassination.

On page 3, the following story is presented:

Movie Film Shows Murder of President

Dallas (UPI)

An amateur photographer shot an 8-MM movie film that clearly shows, step-by-step, the assassination of President Kennedy.

The film was made by Abraham Zapruder, a Dallas dress manufacturer. He is selling rights to the film privately. It has been seen by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Secret Service and representatives of the news media.

It is seven feet long, 35 seconds in colour, a bit jumpy but clear.

It opens as the Kennedy motorcade rounds the corner from Houston Street and turns into Elm Street.

Then it picks up the President’s car and follows it down toward the underpass. Suddenly, in the film, Kennedy is seen to jerk. It is the first shot.

Mrs. Kennedy turns, puts her arms around him. A second later, the second shot. The President’s head becomes a blur on the film, lunged forward and up. The second bullet has torn into the back of his head.

He rolls towards Mrs. Kennedy and disappears from sight. Mrs. Kennedy lurches onto the flat trunk deck of the Presidential car as a Secret Service man races to their aid. She is on her hands and knees. She reaches for him. He leaps up on the bumper. She pulls him up on the bumper or he pushes her back as the film ends...."

And that brings us to the "catalogue of slump witnesses" that you had asked about, which was assembled from the testimony of Dealey Plaza witnesses by physicist and Zapruder film critic John Costella, and demonstrates that the Dealey Plaza witnesses also did not see the violent "back and to the left" movement of President Kennedy upon being shot in the head which is so prominent in the extant "original" Zapruder film today. Instead, the Dealey Plaza witnesses saw what Dan Rather reported, that upon being struck in the head President Kennedy fell forward and to his left into Mrs. Kennedy’s lap:

'What Happened on Elm Street? The Eyewitnesses Speak' | ASSASSINATION RESEARCH / Vol. 5 No. 1 © Copyright 2007 | By John P. Costella |http://assassinationresearch.com/v5n1/v5n1costella.pdf

The President fell forward and to his left into Mrs. Kennedy’s lap.

James Chaney (motorcycle policeman, on the right rear fender of the Presi-
dential limousine), November 22, 1963: “I was riding on the right rear
fender. We had proceeded west on Elm Street at approximately 15 to 20
miles an hour. We heard the first shot. I thought it was a motorcycle
backfiring and, uh, I looked back over to my left and also President Ken-
nedy looked back over his left shoulder. Then the, uh, second shot came,
well then I looked back just in time to see the President struck in the
face by the second bullet. He slumped forward into Mrs. Kennedy’s lap,
and uh, it was apparent to me that we’re being fired upon.” [Interview
with Bill Lord of ABC News for WFAA-TV, as quoted in Trask, That Day in
Dallas]

Emmett Hudson (standing on the steps on the grassy knoll going to the
picket fence), November 22, 1963: “At the same time the President’s car
was directly in front of us, I heard a shot and I saw the President fall over
in the seat.” [Sheriff’s Department affidavit: 19H481]

Gayle Newman (on the north side of Elm Street, near the Presidential lim-
ousine at the time of the shooting), November 22, 1963: “I saw blood all
over the side of his [the President’s] head. About this time Mrs. Kennedy
grabbed the President and he kind of lay over to the side kind of in her
arms.” [Sheriff’s Department affidavit: CE2003: 24H218]

Charles Brehm (on south side of Elm Street, close to the President at the
start of the shooting), November 24, 1963: “Brehm said when the Presi-
dent was hit by the second shot, he could notice the President’s hair fly
up, and then roll over to the side, as Mrs. Kennedy was apparently pull-
ing him in that direction.” [FBI report: CE1425: 22H837]

LIFE Magazine (purportedly in possession of the original Zapruder film),
November 24, 1963: “The President collapses on his wife’s shoulder ....”
[LIFE, November 29, 1963, printed on November 24, 1963]

Roy Kellerman (Secret Service agent, in the front passenger seat of the
Presidential limousine), November 27, 1963: “The President fell on
Mrs. Kennedy’s lap.” [FBI report: CD7]

Emory Roberts (Secret Service agent, in the follow-up car), November 29,

1963: “I do not know if it was the next shot or the third shot that hit the
President in the head, but I saw what appeared to be a small explosion
on the right side of the President’s head, saw blood, at which time the
President fell further to his left.” [Statement: CE1024: 18H734]

George Hickey (Secret Service agent, in the follow-up car), November 30,
1963: “It looked to me as if the President was struck in the right upper
rear of his head. The first shot of the second two seemed as if it missed
because the hair on the right side of his head flew forward and there
didn’t seem to be any impact against his head. The last shot seemed to
hit his head and cause a noise at the point of impact which made him
fall forward and to his left again.” [Statement sent to Special Agent in
Charge of White House Detail, Gerald A. Behn: 18H762]

Sam Kinney (Secret Service agent, driving the follow-up car), November 30,
1963: “I saw one shot strike the President in the right side of the head.
The President then fell to the seat to the left toward Mrs. Kennedy.”
[Statement: CE1024: 18H731]

Clint Hill (Secret Service agent, in the follow-up car), November 30, 1963: “I
jumped from the follow-up car and ran toward the Presidential limou-
sine. I heard a second firecracker type noise but it had a different
sound—like the sound of shooting a revolver into something hard. I saw
the President slump more toward his left.” [Statement: CE1024: 18H742]

Paul Landis (Secret Service agent, on the right running-board of the follow-
up car), November 30, 1963: “I saw pieces of flesh and blood flying
through the air and the President slumped out of sight towards
Mrs. Kennedy.” [Statement: CE1024: 18H755]

Austin Miller (on top of the triple overpass), December 18, 1963: “Turning
back to observe the car, he saw someone fall forward, but he could not
tell who was in the car ....” [FBI report: CD205]

F. Lee Mudd (on the north side of Elm Street, near the Presidential limou-
sine at the time of the shooting), January 24, 1964: “When the Presi-
dent’s car came abreast of Mudd, he could see the President slumped
over toward his wife, who was leaning over him.” [FBI report: CE2108:
24H538]

Clint Hill (Secret Service agent, running from the follow-up car), March 9,
1964: “... the second noise that I heard had removed a portion of the
President’s head, and he had slumped noticeably to his left.” [Warren
Commission testimony: 2H138]

Roy Kellerman (Secret Service agent, in the front passenger seat of the
Presidential limousine), March 9, 1964: “Now, in the seconds that I
talked just now, a flurry of shells come into the car. I then looked back
and this time Mr. Hill, who was riding on the left front bumper of our fol-

lowup car, was on the back trunk of that car [the Presidential limousine];
the President was sideways down in to the back seat.” (Mr. Specter: “In-
dicating on his left side.”) Mr. Kellerman: “Right; just like I am here.”
(Mr. Specter: “You mean, correct, left side.”) Mr. Kellerman: “Correct; yes,
sir.” [Later:] (Mr. Specter: “Where did you look next; what did you observe
following that?”) Mr. Kellerman: “Then I observed how the President was
lying, which was—he was—flat in the seat in this direction.” (Mr. Specter:
“On his left-hand side?”) Mr. Kellerman: “Yes, sir.” [Warren Commission
testimony: 2H74, 77]

Jean Hill (on the south side of Elm Street, near the Presidential limousine
at the time of the shots), March 13, 1964: “Mrs. Hill heard more shots
ring out and saw the hair on the back of President Kennedy’s head fly
up. She stated she thought Mrs. Kennedy cried out, ‘Oh, my God, he’s
been shot!’ As the President fell forward in his seat Mrs. Hill knew he had
been hit by a bullet.” [FBI report: 25H853–4]

Ewell Cowsert (on top of the triple overpass), March 17, 1964: “Cowsert ad-
vised that just as President Kennedy’s car passed the Texas School Book
Depository Building he heard two or three shots ring out and saw Presi-
dent Kennedy slump forward in his seat.” [FBI report: 22H836]

George Davis (on top of the triple overpass), March 17, 1964: “He stated his
first impression was that someone had played a prank, but then he saw
guns in the hands of the Secret Service agents with President Kennedy,
saw President Kennedy slumped forward, and the police motorcycle es-
cort maneuver swiftly about the area and he realized it was not a prank.”
[FBI report: 22H837]

Jean Hill (on the south side of Elm Street, near the Presidential limousine
at the time of the shots), March 24, 1964: (Mr. Specter: “And what reac-
tion, if any, did he have at the time of the first shot?”) [The following
seems to correspond to what the other witnesses describe as the second
shot.] Mrs. Hill: “As I said, I had yelled at him and he had started to raise
his head up and I saw his head start to come up and all at once a bullet
rang out and he slumped forward like this [indicating].” (Mr. Specter:
“Lurched or slumped, as you say, to the left?”) Mrs. Hill: “Yes.”
(Mr. Specter: “Did his head drop down?”) Mrs. Hill: “Yes; he was just, you
know, slumping down like this.” [Warren Commission testimony: 6H208]

James Jarman (looking out a window directly below the ‘sniper’s lair’ in the
Texas School Book Depository), March 24, 1964: (Mr. McCloy: “Did you
see the President actually hit by the bullets?”) Mr. Jarman: “No, sir. I
couldn’t say that I saw him actually hit, but after the second shot, I pre-
sumed that he was, because I had my eye on his car from the time it
came down Houston until the time it started toward the freeway under-
pass.” (Mr. McCloy: “You saw him crumple, you saw him fall, did you?”)
Mr. Jarman: “I saw him lean his head.” [Warren Commission testimony:
3H204]

Harry Holmes (looking through binoculars from the fifth floor of the Termi-
nal Annex building, on the other side of Dealey Plaza, two blocks south of
Elm Street), April 2, 1964: “Mr. Kennedy leaned over against his wife,
Mrs. Kennedy, as this thing, firecracker, looked like, come out.” [Warren
Commission testimony: 7H291]

S. M. Holland (on top of the triple overpass), April 8, 1964: “In other words,
she [Mrs. Kennedy] realized what was happening, I guess. Now, I mean,
that was apparently that—she turned back around, and by the time she
could get turned around he [the President] was hit again along in—I’d
say along in here [indicating].” (Mr. Stern: “How do you know that? Did
you observe that?”) Mr. Holland: “I observed it. It knocked him com-
pletely down on the floor. Over, just slumped completely over. That sec-
ond——” (Mr. Stern: “Did you hear a third report?”) [Warren Commission
testimony: 6H243]

Austin Miller (on top of the triple overpass), April 8, 1964: “After the first
one, just a few seconds later, there was two more shots fired or, or
sounded like a sound at the time. I didn’t know for sure. And it was after
that I saw some man in the car fall forward, ....” [Warren Commission
testimony: 6H225]

Mrs. Kennedy, June 5, 1964: “And then he sort of did this [indicating], put
his hand to his forehead and fell in my lap. And then I just remember fal-
ling on him ... And just being down in the car with his head in my lap.”
[Warren Commission testimony: 5H180]

Emmett Hudson (standing on the steps on the grassy knoll going to the
picket fence), July 22, 1964: (Mr. Liebeler: “What happened after the
President got hit in the head, did you see what he did, what happened in
the car?”) Mr. Hudson: “He slumped over and Mrs. Kennedy, she climbs
over in the seat with him and pulls him over.” [Warren Commission tes-
timony: 7H561]

James Altgens (AP photographer, on the south side of Elm Street, close to
the President at the time of the head shots), July 22, 1964: “... at the
time I was looking at the President, just as he was struck [in the head], it
caused him to move a bit forward. He seemed as if at the time—well, he
was in a position—sort of immobile. He wasn’t upright. He was at an an-
gle but when it hit him, it seemed to have lodged—it seemed as if he were
hung up on a seat button or something like that. It knocked him just
enough forward that he came right on down.” [Warren Commission tes-
timony: 7H518]

Ambiguous: Bill Newman (on the north side of Elm Street, near the Presi-
dential limousine at the time of the shooting), November 22, 1963: “Then
he fell back ... It looked like Mrs. Kennedy jumped on top of the Presi-
dent. He kinda fell back and it looked like she was holding him.” [It is not
clear whether Newman is describing the President falling back away from
him, toward Mrs. Kennedy, or backwards in the seat.] [Sheriff’s Depart-
ment affidavit: 19H490]

Contrary: Charles Brehm (on south side of Elm Street, close to the President
at the start of the shooting), November 22, 1963: “Then on the second
shot he seemed to fall back.” [Dallas Times Herald]

 

Edited May 20 by Keven Hofeling

[Eddy Bainbridge]

Many thanks for the illuminating post Keven. I don't find the testimony completely persuasive but they hold out the possibility that JFK was indeed 'slumped' at the time of a first headshot.

[Chris Bristow]

On 5/19/2024 at 10:12 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

First, I'm pretty sure that you meant Dr. Clark, not Perry. Here is what Dr. Clark said in the news conference:

"The head wound could have been either the exit wound from the neck or it could have been a tangential wound, as it was simply a large, gaping loss of tissue."

He clearly was referring to a gaping exit wound on the back of the head and not the top of the head. Because he surmised the entrance wound for the gaping exit might have been the neck (throat) wound. Besides, all of his other early notes and statements support the back-of-head location.

 

 

No, what Dr. Clark described is not what is seen in the Zapruder film. He saw a gaping hole in the back of the head. The Zapruder film shows a gaping wound at Kennedy's right temple.

Now, what you yourself describe is indeed what the Zapruder film shows. Problem is, not a single witness saw what the Z-film shows... a gaping wound of the temple. Furthermore, the autopsy photos contradict the location of the Zapruder's gaping wound.

 

Clark used the term "right posterior to the WC and in his report from 11/22 he wrote "Occipital parietal." Being a Neurosurgeon He must know where the occipital bone is and where the occipital parietal area is. He also recognized both cerebellar tissue and cerebrum. One or two others also stated the wound looked tangential. That allows for the occipital wound to have come from the Grassy Knoll.

[Kevin Balch]

19 minutes ago, Chris Bristow said:

Clark used the term "right posterior to the WC and in his report from 11/22 he wrote "Occipital parietal." Being a Neurosurgeon He must know where the occipital bone is and where the occipital parietal area is. He also recognized both cerebellar tissue and cerebrum. One or two others also stated the wound looked tangential. That allows for the occipital wound to have come from the Grassy Knoll.

I disagree. If Don Roberdeau’s drawing is anything close to accurate, a shot from the knoll would have have made a fairly sharp left turn (~70 degrees) to exit the right rear of the head. The force on the left half of the brain and skull would have been pretty large. Even if the bullet fragmented, there would be substantial damage to the left half of the brain. A shot from the south knoll sort of solves the problem but introduces the problems of shooting through the windshield, Greer or the Connallys.

In my judgement, the head shot was off-center and oblique leaving a large entrance wound. Think of the Apple logo. It traveled forward along the right side of the skull and it exited around the right temple, blew out material along the right side of the skull in a cloud which was quickly dispersed back and to the left by the combined force of a west-southwest wind and the relative wind from the southwest direction of travel of the limo. Larger fragments of brain tissue and skull not as much affected by the wind were carried forward by the momentum transferred from the incoming bullet.

Then again, maybe Greer or Nellie Connally did it.

[Kevin Balch]

I think that Connally’s entrance wound looking like that from an already tumbling bullet was because the bullet hit him while he was turned to the right and it entered obliquely.