JFKA Horshoe Theory: 'The Radical Left' and 'Extreme Right' come together to blame Israel, Zionism and Zionists for JFK's Assassination

[Tom Gram]

18 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

 

Tom, unlike you and those two, I have attended almost every major conference since 1991.

No one has ever voiced any such opinion, namely that the Mossad killed Kennedy. The Final Judgement by Collins Piper  had no impact on the critical community, for reasons stated above.

Therefore, I  stand by what I said, that Koch is doing is a provocation, about the same street theater level as Griffith.  

I think part of it is to detract from what the IDF is doing in Gaza right now. William was quite right to post Bernie Sanders' eloquent reply to that brutality.

But that does not alter the calculus of Dallas on November 22, 1963. End of story.

 

Jim, I agree with you. I actually had it typed out that “Jim D. is right that no one in the JFK critical community actually believes that Israel killed JFK, with maybe a few extremely fringe exceptions’”. 

Hell I even had it typed out that Griffith’s unconditional defense of Israel killing civilians is over-the-top ridiculous. As bad as the Hamas attack was, and it was terrible, Israel’s response is worthy of criticism, period. And that’s putting it extremely mildly. 

I decided to focus on Matt’s intentions on this forum instead. It certainly appears like his only goal is to preach his particular flavor of politics, and he even admitted that he joined - “to counter the politics…”. 

[Matthew Koch]

Tom here is prior attempts to discuss this topic where I have stated that I don't think Israel killed JFK but because of my 911, and Iran Contra research I don't rule out involvement (Because I think CIA ran people in the assassination who were double agents through the European intelligence that they had a back channel to via Ghelen Network.) 

Take a look an see who can discuss the topic without weaponizing it and who can't. That's why the tables are turned in this thread and people should be discussing their research instead of posting Amazon.com links that I think you agree crosses the line in scholarship (Since a book is being cited that someone didn't read) And they are blaming a race of people. (But I'm just spewing right wing politics here, right?!?) 

Here is the first time I brought it up because I thought it was weird that Ben Shapiro is a JFKA Conspiracy debunker. I fish on this subject for counter information because the Jackman Brothers who's pod cast people on this forum have been on are friends of mine.. In 2017 I went out to visit them in NH and while I was there Chris Bolin was there and I went with them to his presentation (Which I wasn't impressed with) while we were there a Neo Nazi showed up and I was mortified that I was at this kind of event. After talking to my friends I learned that they had become decibels of Ryan and is 911 theory that Israel did 911 and that there wasn't a demolition done that day. That's where this begins because as I said earlier I was a 911 truth activist did some stuff that was border line antifa by todays standards which included hacking the news. So when people who are dishonest like Ryan use Kooks as a straw man to push their stupid JFK was killed by Jews theory it offends me. 

If there was something I would recommend you look into because it's along the lines of your style of research is Corey's Documentary because he is an ex cop and he does have a lot of interesting research that I think. that someone like you or Ben could look and and see what is good and what isn't. Because he does have some good original research, but his other research is so bad that if it's not disinformation it's scary that Corey was a Police Officer.

You'll see what I mean and if you don't laugh at who he says was the gun man behind the knoll.. I will be disappointed💯

Edited June 11 by Matthew Koch

[Tom Gram]

58 minutes ago, Matthew Koch said:

Tom this is the Debate forum not the research section. 

 

Tom why didn't you ever express this opinion on all of the threads that went the other way? I clearly remember you commenting on the thread where Lesie and the Water cooler thread that is being taken to task tried in vain to kick me off the Forum. Leslie made a story up that I called her answering machine and left a threatening messaged with the term Corcicans to imply a death threat. Afterwards you had problems with Lessie didn't you? But here you are again and your "INTENT" is to pile on like Niederhut and others and derail the thread. 

 

My contribution is this thread [Emphasis added] I am making a case that these people are wrong and connected to this kind of facts and the case and I'm leaving it open for others help make the case that Zionists and Israel didn't kill JFK. 

 

Please look at the Dave Smith debate I posted because the same thing is happening here. If people I have mentioned don't want to be associated with the unintended consequences of their language or the topics they put in their documentary. Need to make the case why they shouldn't be associated with or why they don't think the same as these people especially since I have posted a video of Jim with Ryan Dawson in the same room. 

I do discuss the actual case but because of Water Cooler people who have weaponized JFK research to blame their political enemies. This thread has used a concept of Murphy's law of Combat: "When your enemy is in range, so are you" 

I have established that people like Laurant Guarant have been cited by William Niederhut and others on the forum. And that Ryan Dawson interviewed James DiEugenio and has a similar Anti Neo Theme. 

*Please cite what Right Wing Politics I've been lecturing people that isn't in line with what people are already doing in threads? Tom why don't you join the Sachs thread and counter the cited information about the John F. Kennedy New Frontier Administration I have made unfair "RIGHT WING" opinions about? 

You wanna accuse me of not discussing the JFK case I've read more books than you. Challenge me on something that isn't using vague language about my political ideology that you have shown on privious threads that your a Hick lib that associates me with the worst country racist right wing people. Which you are incorrect about and I don't know what you are correct about because when I offered to help you with the Dallas PO Box and Area Code map I have and you ignored and ghosted my reply so sorry if I don't think you are being genuine with what you are saying in this thread ; ) 

I do not recall this situation with Leslie, nor do I recall ever even commenting in the Water Coolers, but I could be wrong. I’ve had plenty of issues with “Leslie”, mostly regarding a particular alleged datebook, but my point is I call it like I see it. I have no vendetta against you and if someone arguing against you says something I think is wrong and I feel like commenting I’ll call them out on it. 

I surely have no idea what you are talking about regarding an offer to help on the “Dallas PO Box and Area Code map”. If you did, I probably just didn’t see it. I’m a busy guy, and go long periods of time without looking at this forum. I’m also just prone to forget things like that, not check PM’s, etc. 

Also, let me get this straight. Are you really calling me a “hick lib”? What does that even mean? Does that count as an insult? When have I associated you with “the worst country right wing racist people”?  

You have no idea what you are talking about. I’m probably more conservative politically than the majority of people on this forum. I’m a moderate, whatever that means, but I do tend to lean left on social issues. 

You also claim to know how many books I’ve read. That’s pretty impressive. Do you know how much primary-source research I’ve done on the JFK case too? Why not include that in your attempt at a dick measuring contest? 

And are you really taking offense to me using the term “right wing”? C’mon man, it’s not exactly a secret that you sure as hell aren’t “left-wing”. You actually used the term “hick lib” in a sentence. What’s so bad about being “right wing”? Surely it’s better than being a hick lib, is it not? 

Also, you know that nobody uses the JFK Research forum at all. This is a debate forum, but the key words are “JFK Assassination”. Other than a few superficial comments here and there, I don’t recall ever seeing you discuss the actual case on this forum, certainly nothing even remotely approaching the length and effort put into your posts and comments about contemporary politics. 

My point is there are better platforms to use if your only intention here is to try to “pwn the libs”, or whatever, or to provoke people so you can rant about politics.

Like I said, I don’t necessarily think that your stated goal of this thread, to highlight that Israel-did-it theories are being spread by morons trying to justify antisemitism and criticism of the Israeli state for political purposes, and to refute those theories, is not a relevant topic. However Jim D. is correct that no one in the actual JFK critical community takes those theories seriously, and I’m not seeing anything resembling a refutation from you.

You are just giving these people a platform, and using it as a provocation and excuse to criticize your so-called “Water Cooler people” and rant about contemporary issues. That’s the impression I got reading through this thread anyway, but I’m just a hick lib. 

[Matthew Koch]

19 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

I do not recall this situation with Leslie, nor do I recall ever even commenting in the Water Coolers, but I could be wrong. I’ve had plenty of issues with “Leslie”, mostly regarding a particular alleged datebook, but my point is I call it like I see it. I have no vendetta against you and if someone arguing against you says something I think is wrong and I feel like commenting I’ll call them out on it. 

I surely have no idea what you are talking about regarding an offer to help on the “Dallas PO Box and Area Code map”. If you did, I probably just didn’t see it. I’m a busy guy, and go long periods of time without looking at this forum. I’m also just prone to forget things like that, not check PM’s, etc. 

Also, let me get this straight. Are you really calling me a “hick lib”? What does that even mean? Does that count as an insult? When have I associated you with “the worst country right wing racist people”?  

You have no idea what you are talking about. I’m probably more conservative politically than the majority of people on this forum. I’m a moderate, whatever that means, but I do tend to lean left on social issues. 

You also claim to know how many books I’ve read. That’s pretty impressive. Do you know how much primary-source research I’ve done on the JFK case too? Why not include that in your attempt at a dick measuring contest? 

And are you really taking offense to me using the term “right wing”? C’mon man, it’s not exactly a secret that you sure as hell aren’t “left-wing”. You actually used the term “hick lib” in a sentence. What’s so bad about being “right wing”? Surely it’s better than being a hick lib, is it not? 

Also, you know that nobody uses the JFK Research forum at all. This is a debate forum, but the key words are “JFK Assassination”. Other than a few superficial comments here and there, I don’t recall ever seeing you discuss the actual case on this forum, certainly nothing even remotely approaching the length and effort put into your posts and comments about contemporary politics. 

My point is there are better platforms to use if your only intention here is to try to “pwn the libs”, or whatever, or to provoke people so you can rant about politics.

Like I said, I don’t necessarily think that your stated goal of this thread, to highlight that Israel-did-it theories are being spread by morons trying to justify antisemitism and criticism of the Israeli state for political purposes, and to refute those theories, is not a relevant topic. However Jim D. is correct that no one in the actual JFK critical community takes those theories seriously, and I’m not seeing anything resembling a refutation from you.

You are just giving these people a platform, and using it as a provocation and excuse to criticize your so-called “Water Cooler people” and rant about contemporary issues. That’s the impression I got reading through this thread anyway, but I’m just a hick lib. 

See you made it about you instead of either backing up the stuff you said Tom there are opening there for dialogue but your ego focused on being called a Hick Lib. Sorry you are to dense to not remember the 56 year thread or that you cited people from the ROKC that were dispagering towards me. You're a good researcher right? Why don't you go fetch it 

These people have platforms like Twitter and Rumble and have hundreds of thousands of views so this rather pathetic. "Why are you giving them a platform"  ending your doing is missing the mark logically. They don't have a platform here becasause they aren't members but Members like You DiEugenio and Niederhut have commented like you are better than this yet haven't added any research or anyting of value you have just cried which is why I don't interact with you Tom because I have already deemed you to be a waste of a time and are beneath me JFKA case wise [Empahsis added]

Edited June 11 by Matthew Koch

[James DiEugenio]

Nice one Tom, and you left him incoherent.

[Ron Bulman]

On 6/4/2024 at 1:44 PM, Kevin Balch said:

Did Israel deliberately attack the USS Liberty?

Yes.  LBJ said he didn't give a damn if the ship sank, and all the sailors died.  Thirty-four did.  A sad day in US history.

[Ron Bulman]

On 6/10/2024 at 6:53 AM, Matthew Koch said:

Ron.. Please delete the part of your post that does not conform to forum rules.

Your comments?

[Ron Bulman]

On 6/10/2024 at 4:41 AM, James DiEugenio said:

Thanks for that Ron, "white knight piece of Texas trash?" 😀

Boy is that rich.  Ron comes off like a southern gentleman, Leslie Howard out of GWTW.

Thanks Jim.

 

[Ron Bulman]

On 6/10/2024 at 6:53 AM, Matthew Koch said:

I suggest grandpa that you go there to post your silly TIL messages about books and Music videos that haven no relationship to the topic. FYI when you bully me, it brings out the warrior in me just so you know, and I am always wiling to come out and play ; ) 

I'm not your grand paw as my grandkids call me.  Again, I'm not a bully.  I'm not playing.  

[Ron Bulman]

12 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

I waded through all the Twitter feeds and repetition in this thread, trying to figure out what the point is, and it doesn’t really seem like research. 

It seems like an excuse to preach about contemporary politics under the guise of relevance to the JFKA. 

This should be noted.

[Ron Bulman]

On 6/10/2024 at 8:15 PM, Matthew Koch said:

Can someone explain to Jim that Mr. K's comment that he is referencing is from almost a year ago and is off topic to derail it and be a white knight for you is what I think that's about because Ron lost being a Mod and then went into Ben's RFK2 thread and disparaged him and my thread and did the same. So, it appears that you don't know what you are talking about while avoiding the question. 

I do find it investing how you latched on to Mr. Morley yet left out Dr. Aaron Good that has a twitter comment about the Israeli account which is VERY similar to yours. What is the Israeli account Jim? Mossad? Like Duh, I literally can't believe you are attempting to play games like this. I feel like YOU are being dishonest, and YOU are making disparaging remarks toward Me that is why this is happening. If you want I will start quoting from Destiny Betrayed Vol. 1 in threads because before you got on the conference circuit of of citing the Liberal COPA and JFK Lancer People you put out a book that has alot wrong with it that you never cleared up.. So, I'll bring that up with alll the flaws in destiny betrayed that I haven't because I used to be a "Fan Boy" as Cliff says until your Reclaiming Parkland take that D-Day didn't matter and Russia actually won the war.

Your thesis does not align with JFK and you focus on things you like and when there's stuff that shows JFK to be an Anti Communist you pretend that doesn't exist or focus on Assassination Plot info or say that it's just Rhetoric to please the conservatives. There is too much at this point to just say the CIA killed JFK because of his liberal policies like you Good and Sachs infer. 

I'm sorry you didn't look further into Ryan Dawson but you did work with him and Aaron Good has pretty close to the same thesis but says Zionists instead of Jews like Ryan Dawson does. Both people you work with but nice try with the Jefferson Morley Limited hang out.. looks like you learned something from CIA ; )

 

Skimming, not worth my time.

[Ron Bulman]

12 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

I waded through all the Twitter feeds and repetition in this thread, trying to figure out what the point is, and it doesn’t really seem like research. 

It seems like an excuse to preach about contemporary politics under the guise of relevance to the JFKA. 

An interesting perspective, as I attempt to do so.

[Matthew Koch]

7 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Skimming, not worth my time.

This is what I'm talking about Ron, this is a FB comment and should not be on the forum since it doesn't contain anything of value. 

 

7 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I'm not your grand paw as my grandkids call me.  Again, I'm not a bully.  I'm not playing.  

Then what is your compulsive behavior called? You are the one who had a problem with the amount of money I donated to the forum and said I should have given $500 and something about Trump. SO, it is my opinion that what every you are unhappy about inside you have a need to vent it through Trump and Conservatives that ruined the country and liked Allen Dulles. Maybe try forgiving especially since your generation ruined the country that JFK loved. 

 

8 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Your comments?

Mine stem from you and your outburst of bringing up the past like a Naggy Old Wife like you are doing here with these bitter comments.

Go back and look at the thread Ron, you are basically Bumping it at this point. 

You, and your not researching water boys ruined the forum (much like America) and I won't be looking at the Forum much longer.

You and the people in this thread have really made an enemy and when I start I will be referencing treatment I got on here I will be citing screen shots and I will be making fun of you and people like William who think that an Amazon.com comment is scholarly. Jim and Tom didn't seem to have a problem with it like I do. SO... I guess we're not the same I don't hang out with people who are Holocaust Deniers that venerate and dress up as Hitler because they hate Isreal, Neo cons and Zionists (Jews)

To be frank based on the behavior of people in this thread which does not include John Cotter, Ben Cole, Michael Griffith [Emphasis added] 

I don't wan't to associate with this forum and it's ultra biased "researchers" who ruined the Forum with Grandpa like Face Book Comments..  

Edited June 12 by Matthew Koch

[Ron Bulman]

On 6/11/2024 at 1:15 PM, Matthew Koch said:

you have shown on privious threads that your a Hick lib

There are multiple instances in this thread that violate forum rules.  This one is a direct insult to another forum member.

[Mark Knight]

On 6/12/2024 at 8:01 AM, Matthew Koch said:

 

I don't wan't to associate with this forum and it's ultra biased "researchers" who ruined the Forum with Grandpa like Face Book Comments..  

And yet, here you are. 

As Jim D. said, I also have never heard anyone who is a serious researcher state an "Israel killed KFK" opinion. Not the Mossad, not David Ben Gurion, not anyone connected to Israel. I personally consider anyone who subscribes to an "Israel killed JFK" theory a crackpot, making statements that cannot be supported by facts.

Guilt by association can be a dangerous path. Just because I once knew a person who was an actual member of the Ku Klux Klan doesn't mean I agreed with him. [I don't, and never did.]

Do you understand what a straw man argument is? Your antisemitism claims against any member of the EF, while citing non-EF members discussing the "Israel killed JFK" theory ELSEWHERE as evidence of antisemitism on the EF, is disingenuous. It's a straw-man argument.