Donald Sutherland 1935-2024, played "X" in Oliver Stone's film "JFK"

[James DiEugenio]

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Give that man a cigar!

Ron and William:

That whole Phoenix Operation was so shocking when it was exposed because it showed just how brutal, yet ineffective the US war effort was becoming.  It was so ineffective that it had to resort to torture/murder.  It was really shown for what it was in Peter Davis' Hearts and Minds.  People went into denial about it but it ended up being accurate information.  This, plus the fragging, plus the drug running really began to break apart the military.  And this is why I think Burns and Novick did not show any of it in their pretty much useless "feel good" 18 hour documentary

I mean how can you feel good about a war that killed 3.8 million Vietnamese, and about 2 million Cambodians, all for a war that even Henry Kissinger said should have never been fought. 

There are two images that epitomize the American experience there:

1.) The film of the 13 years old girl running from her bombed village with napalm burning her back.

2.) The last helicopter lifting off the American embassy in Saigon with scores of Vietnamese still trying to get on.

That last image showed that even America's retreat from Vietnam was a mess.

[David Boylan]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Ron and William:

That whole Phoenix Operation was so shocking when it was exposed because it showed just how brutal, yet ineffective the US war effort was becoming.  It was so ineffective that it had to resort to torture/murder.  It was really shown for what it was in Peter Davis' Hearts and Minds.  People went into denial about it but it ended up being accurate information.  This, plus the fragging, plus the drug running really began to break apart the military.  And this is why I think Burns and Novick did not show any of it in their pretty much useless "feel good" 18 hour documentary

I mean how can you feel good about a war that killed 3.8 million Vietnamese, and about 2 million Cambodians, all for a war that even Henry Kissinger said should have never been fought. 

There are two images that epitomize the American experience there:

1.) The film of the 13 years old girl running from her bombed village with napalm burning her back.

2.) The last helicopter lifting off the American embassy in Saigon with scores of Vietnamese still trying to get on.

That last image showed that even America's retreat from Vietnam was a mess.

Jim,

Doug Valentine on Tony Po and Phoenix. Anyone read Doug's latest book? Looks interesting.

The CIA: Up Close and Personal (msn.com)