JFK vs the Neocons Pt. 4

[James DiEugenio]

My concluding chapter on this very important part of history, in which we all lost and the Neocons won.

And the spoils of war are all around us.

This will invite a lot of controversy, but I backed up everything.

https://jamesanthonydieugenio.substack.com/p/jfk-and-the-neocons-pt-4

[Kevin Balch]

I’ve read all 4 pieces. A well written series on a topic that needs to be discussed.

I disagree with the characterization of the FDR policies as being benign and I think the origin of the neocons has been zionist oriented from the beginning when some Communists became discouraged with the Hitler-Stalin Pact and others later abandoned the Communist cause over the treatment of Soviet Jews.

[W. Niederhut]

Excellent, thought-provoking work about the rightward/imperialist shift in U.S. foreign policy after 11/22/63.

Regarding the second-generation Neocons-- William Kristol's Project for a New American Century-- more can be said about their involvement with Benjamin Netanyahu and the Israel government, beginning in the 1990s, as Kevin Balch mentioned.

Two of the most prominent Neocons in the Bush/Cheney administration, Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith, (Rumsfeld's #2 and #3 men in the Pentagon) had written white papers for Netanyahu in the 1990s about the prospect of deploying the U.S. military against Iraq and other Muslim adversaries of Israel in the Middle East.

General Wesley Clark was debriefed by high-level Pentagon officials in September of 2001-- shortly after 9/11-- about U.S. military plans to "take out seven countries in five years."  And George W. Bush's Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill wrote in his memoir, The Price of Loyalty, that Rumsfeld had talked to him about contingency plans for a U.S. invasion of Iraq as early as January of 2001, and, again, immediately after 9/11.

[Benjamin Cole]

Controversial contributions are what make a forum.

I probably agree with 90% of what you have written.

However, of late I've come to consider that many nations are responsible for what they do and not everything can be blamed on America. Libya was in fact destabilized by the unnecessary bombing conducted by Hilary Clinton and pals. But that was decades ago, and the place is still a oppressive violent toilet along with many other Middle East Islamic nations. 

No one forced Putin/Russia to invade Ukraine, which hardly had a military. I blame Putin for that war.

The world is full of crappy governments, and some national cultures are underwhelming, to put it mildly.

JFK had no reservations about making war, and demanding unconditional surrender from Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan.

 

 

[W. Niederhut]

Addendum: The DiEugenio articles on JFK and the Neocons are a good sequel to Monica Wiesak's excellent history of JFK's foreign policy positions, in America's Last President.

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks all.  And William, I probably should have put something in there about Clark.  Because that was pretty accurate.

Kevin, did you know that Benjy N slept in Jared Kushner's bedroom while he was a young diplomat in New York?

Finally, Ben, the remarkable thing about Kennedy is that he resisted going to war in four instances when he was encouraged to do so by just about everyone in the room and where Ike and Nixon would have supported him:

Cuba, Bay of Pigs

Laos

Vietnam

Cuba, Missile Crisis

There is diamond in the new version of John Newman's book, JFK and VIetnam.  Kennedy calls a meeting about the decision to implement NSAM 111.  That is equipment and advisors but no combat troops to Indochina.  He is the last one to arrive.  Listens to some small talk.  He then takes over the meeting with, "Once policy is decided, those on the spot either fall in line, or they get out!"

He then let that sink in.  He followed it up with this, "Now who is going to carry out my policy in Vietnam?"

McNamara raised his hand silently.  And that is who Kennedy entrusted with his withdrawal plan which began about five months later with a visit to McNamara by Galbraith.

And which LBJ undid in about three months after Kennedy was killed.

 

[Kevin Balch]

31 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Thanks all.  And William, I probably should have put something in there about Clark.  Because that was pretty accurate.

Kevin, did you know that Benjy N slept in Jared Kushner's bedroom while he was a young diplomat in New York?

Finally, Ben, the remarkable thing about Kennedy is that he resisted going to war in four instances when he was encouraged to do so by just about everyone in the room and where Ike and Nixon would have supported him:

Cuba, Bay of Pigs

Laos

Vietnam

Cuba, Missile Crisis

There is diamond in the new version of John Newman's book, JFK and VIetnam.  Kennedy calls a meeting about the decision to implement NSAM 111.  That is equipment and advisors but no combat troops to Indochina.  He is the last one to arrive.  Listens to some small talk.  He then takes over the meeting with, "Once policy is decided, those on the spot either fall in line, or they get out!"

He then let that sink in.  He followed it up with this, "Now who is going to carry out my policy in Vietnam?"

McNamara raised his hand silently.  And that is who Kennedy entrusted with his withdrawal plan which began about five months later with a visit to McNamara by Galbraith.

And which LBJ undid in about three months after Kennedy was killed.

 

Algeria figured heavily in France’s decision to provide assistance to Israel’s nascent nuclear weapons program. It likely figured in the Franco-Israeli cooperation in the 1956 Suez invasion.

“A nuclear Israel could serve as a counterforce to Egypt in France’s struggles in Algeria. Egypt was actively aiding the rebels there”

http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2015/ph241/tilney1/docs/farr.pdf

de Gaulle thought he pulled the plug on nuclear cooperation with Israel but it continued. 

[James DiEugenio]

I assume you mean through NUMEC?

[James DiEugenio]

William:

Thanks so much for mentioning Monica.  Her book does not get nearly enough credit or attention.

But its the best book about the Kennedy presidency since Jim Douglass.

So its a nice neighborhood.

[Benjamin Cole]

7 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Thanks all.  And William, I probably should have put something in there about Clark.  Because that was pretty accurate.

Kevin, did you know that Benjy N slept in Jared Kushner's bedroom while he was a young diplomat in New York?

Finally, Ben, the remarkable thing about Kennedy is that he resisted going to war in four instances when he was encouraged to do so by just about everyone in the room and where Ike and Nixon would have supported him:

Cuba, Bay of Pigs

Laos

Vietnam

Cuba, Missile Crisis

There is diamond in the new version of John Newman's book, JFK and VIetnam.  Kennedy calls a meeting about the decision to implement NSAM 111.  That is equipment and advisors but no combat troops to Indochina.  He is the last one to arrive.  Listens to some small talk.  He then takes over the meeting with, "Once policy is decided, those on the spot either fall in line, or they get out!"

He then let that sink in.  He followed it up with this, "Now who is going to carry out my policy in Vietnam?"

McNamara raised his hand silently.  And that is who Kennedy entrusted with his withdrawal plan which began about five months later with a visit to McNamara by Galbraith.

And which LBJ undid in about three months after Kennedy was killed.

 

I largely agree, although JFK did put 15000 troops into SV and authorized the BoP op. 

And, as stated, JFK had no reservations about waging total war on and seeking unconditional surrender from Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

JFK's book, "Why England Slept" is a warning against complacency when autocratic powers are arising.

 

[W. Niederhut]

1 minute ago, Benjamin Cole said:

I largely agree, although JFK did put 15000 troops into SV and authorized the BoP op. 

And, as stated, JFK had no reservations about waging total war on and seeking unconditional surrender from Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

JFK's book, "Why England Slept" is a warning against complacency when autocratic powers are arising.

 

Ben,

   Have you read Monica Wiesak's book, America's Last President?

   IMO, everyone on this JFKA forum should read her book.

[Benjamin Cole]

8 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Ben,

   Have you read Monica Wiesak's book, America's Last President?

   IMO, everyone on this JFKA forum should read her book.

Michael Griffith summed up my views on Monica W's book in his review, that you can read Amazon review section.

I don't dare discuss Griffith's review here, because it will bring the anti-Semitic crackpots out of the woodwork, and derail a pretty good, collegial thread.

[W. Niederhut]

6 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Michael Griffith summed up my views on Monica W's book in his review, that you can read Amazon review section.

I don't dare discuss Griffith's review here, because it will bring the anti-Semitic crackpots out of the woodwork, and derail a pretty good, collegial thread.

Ben,

    Anyone who has taken the time to read Wiesak's book won't retain any illusions about JFK's true position on Vietnam, and on anti-colonialism, in general.  It can't be explained more cogently.

   But, if you're getting your concept of "history" from Michael Griffith, I can't help you.

   

[Benjamin Cole]

41 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Ben,

    Anyone who has taken the time to read Wiesak's book won't retain any illusions about JFK's true position on Vietnam, and on anti-colonialism, in general.  It can't be explained more cogently.

   But, if you're getting your concept of "history" from Michael Griffith, I can't help you.

   

You have your views, and I have mine.

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

I largely agree, although JFK did put 15000 troops into SV and authorized the BoP op. 

JFK put 15,000 advisors in Vietnam to placate Joint Chiefs of Staff among others urging combat troops.  He authorized the Bay of Pigs under false pretenses perpetuated by Allen Dulles and Richard Bissell of the CIA, among others.  Under pressure from them and some of the JCS less than three months into his new presidency.  "How could I ever have been so stupid" I believe is a close approximation of a statement by him afterwards.