RFK Never Believed the Warren Commission

[Gil Jesus]

Witnesses describe Robert Kennedy's reaction to the Warren Commission findings and reveal his intent to re-investigate the assassination once elected President.

 

 

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks for that Gil.

I thought Talbot and Bob were quite good on this.  After Talbot left that stage in SF, the technicians working on the film, that is the photographic, sound guys and gaffer, all asked me, "Hey Jim is the next guy as good as this guy was?"

RFK was the first conspiracy theorist, and his idea, the CIA, exiles and Mob was pretty right on.  Amazingly so.

Edited September 29 by James DiEugenio

[Gil Jesus]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Thanks for that Gil.

I thought Talbot and Bob were quite good on this.  After Talbot left that stage in SF, the technicians working of the film, that is the photographic, sound guys and gaffer, all asked me, "Hey Jim is the next guy as good as this guy was?"

RFK was the first conspiracy theorist, and his idea, the CIA, exiles and Mob was pretty right on.  Amazingly so.

Thank you and Oliver for getting Talbot on video saying the same thing he wrote in his book. These video clips are critical for future generations.

We owe you both a debt of gratitude. Thank you again.

Edited September 29 by Gil Jesus

[James DiEugenio]

You are welcome Gil.

The way I look at it, the material in book form would hit maybe 20,000 people on a good day in America.

With Oliver's film, millions saw it across  the globe since it sold in 18 countries.

 

[Kevin Balch]

Why would Ethel Kennedy invite Allen Dulles to RFK’s funeral? Surely RFK would have shared any doubts he had about the Warren Commission with his wife.

[Benjamin Cole]

4 hours ago, Kevin Balch said:

Why would Ethel Kennedy invite Allen Dulles to RFK’s funeral? Surely RFK would have shared any doubts he had about the Warren Commission with his wife.

KB--

You raise an interesting question. And then in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA, RFK1 sought consultation and even solace in the company of CIA Director John McCone. Evidently, RFK1 and McCone had developed a collegial and friendly working relationship. It helped that Hickory Hill and CIA HQ were nearly adjacent, and that RFK1 took a deep interest in CIA anti-Castro actions and planning. 

On 11/22 the McCone-RFK1 meeting lasted for two hours. McCone was, of course, JFK's man in the CIA, and by most accounts, a smart guy and Cold Warrior.

It may be RFK1 and Kennedys suspected not CIA leadership, but rather rogue elements connected to the US intelligence community, of perping the JFKA.

[Robert Morrow]

On 9/29/2024 at 3:46 AM, James DiEugenio said:

Thanks for that Gil.

I thought Talbot and Bob were quite good on this.  After Talbot left that stage in SF, the technicians working on the film, that is the photographic, sound guys and gaffer, all asked me, "Hey Jim is the next guy as good as this guy was?"

RFK was the first conspiracy theorist, and his idea, the CIA, exiles and Mob was pretty right on.  Amazingly so.

Robert Kennedy, like Jackie Kennedy, Evelyn Lincoln and Kenny O'Donnell, immediately thought LYNDON JOHNSON murdered JFK and that is the because Robert Kennedy was the point man on the Kennedys "destroy LBJ" program that was ongoing in full gear in November, 1963, and which Lyndon Johnson was acutely aware of.

[As for who was the first conspiracy theorist in the JFK assassination, Lyndon Johnson - at Parkland Hospital from 1:20-1:26PM was immediately telling Malcolm Kilduff that COMMUNISTS had just murdered JFK - while so much of the world immediately thought that the Dallas Right Wing had just murdered Kennedy. Weird that LBJ would say something like that as in tune with local Dallas politics as he was.]

RFK's suspicions of other actors were all secondary to his primary suspicion of Lyndon Johnson in the JFK assassination. But Robert Kennedy could not exactly hold a press conference and announce to the world that he and JFK were trying their very best to destroy LBJ, get Johnson to resign the Vice Presidency and thus remove LBJ from the 1964 Democratic ticket. Remember LBJ was the one pushing for Kennedy to come down to Texas, as John Connally told Doug Thompson. LBJ was the first to announce JFK was coming to Texas in spring, 1963 while at the same time Johnson knew the Kennedys were going to drop him from the 1964 Democratic ticket (no matter what JFK said/lied about publicly later on in fall, 1963).

The first thing the Kennedys did AFTER JFK assassination was to send their close personal friend William Walton to Moscow (within a week of JFK's death) to tell the Russians that the selection of LBJ as vice president had been a GREVIOUS MISTAKE and any detente with the Russians would have to wait until Robert Kennedy would/could hopefully become president one day.

LBJ top aide Horace Busby strongly implies that Lyndon Johnson was acutely aware by Nov. 4, 1963 that the Kennedys had sent a SWAT team of over **FORTY** national reporters to Texas to utterly destroy him  https://robertmorrowpoliticalresearchblog.blogspot.com/2020/07/lyndon-johnson-was-acutely-aware-by-nov.html  I wonder how LBJ would’ve reacted?

Burkett van Kirk (GOP Senate Rules Committee counsel) and James Wagenvoord (Life Magazine assistant editor) prove the Kennedys were out to destroy LBJ in November of 1963 http://robertmorrowpoliticalresearchblog.blogspot.com/2021/08/senate-counsel-burkett-van-kirk-and.html

National Review’s Phil Brennan knew in real time all about the Kennedys’ ongoing plan to destroy LBJ with the media in fall of 1963: https://www.newsmax.com/Pre-2008/Some-Relevant-Facts-About/2003/11/18/id/677423/

Election Night 11/8/60 – VP-Elect Lyndon Johnson was the most UNHAPPY man that reporter Margaret Mayer had ever seen https://robertmorrowpoliticalresearchblog.blogspot.com/2024/08/election-night-1181960-lyndon-johnson.html

Arthur Schlesinger on Robert Kennedy being convinced at one point that Lyndon Johnson had murdered John Kennedy

 "We tried to perpetuate the myth by convincing ourselves that we were good and that LBJ was evil. I remember one time Bobby telling me he was convinced that Lyndon was behind his brother's death. 'Come on Bob. Get real.' I said. His other theory had it that Richard Nixon and Howard Hughes were somehow involved. He hated them both. 'Nixon's a true slimebucket,' he said. 'And I should have investigated Hughes years ago.'"

 [C. David Heymann, RFK, p. 365]

 

Ethel Kennedy in 1963 was 100% for dumping Lyndon Johnson and replacing him as VP with her husband Robert Kennedy. She advocated this repeatedly

 QUOTE

           At the time of JFK’s death (November 1963), there was talk among Kennedy insiders of dumping LBJ as a running mate in the 1964 election. Ethel Kennedy made repeated recommendations that there be a Kennedy-Kennedy ticket, RFK to fill the vice-presidential slot. It is doubtful, however, that such a plan would have passed muster with either the president of the attorney general.

 UNQUOTE

 [David Heymann, RFK, p. 542]

Robert Kennedy, Jr. on how Lyndon Johnson was presented as a nemesis to the Kennedy family when he was a kid

 QUOTE

 “Lyndon Johnson was rather a nemesis to the family while we were growing up,” reminisced Bobby, Jr. “In retrospect, he was one of the best presidents we ever had, but during the heat of battle, the kids all regarded him as some kind of ogre.”

 UNQUOTE

 [David Heyman, RFK, p. 367]

 

[James DiEugenio]

Its not an interesting question at all.

Because Kevin leaves out more important info.

It was Bobby Kennedy who made his brother fire Allen Dulles.  And if you read the questioning during the Taylor Commission, RFK was merciless in this regard.  Because he would not let Dulles off the hook on a key point:  there was no escape from the landing points if the exiles got pinned down. You would have to wade through miles and miles of swamp to get to the mountains.  Dulles' only reply was the exiles had been trained to go guerilla.

Bobby brought in witnesses who were part of the training.  It turned out this was simply false.

This is what ended up convincing RFK that Dulles knew the project would fail.  In fact, Dulles was relying on failure in order to pressure JFK into sending in direct American intervention, which JFK had said prior in public  that he would not do. RFK was correct, since Dulles more or less confessed to this later in notes found at Princeton.

Bobby then brought in Lovett and the Lovett/Bruce report. Lovett said he and Bruce had tried to get Dulles fired because he did these kinds of things under Ike.  They could not, since he was protected by his brother. Lovett said JFK now had the perfect instance to get rid of him.  And he did.

But that was not the end of it.  RFK then brought in Dean Rusk.  He asked him: is any other member of the Dulles family still in our employ? Rusk said yes, Allen's sister Eleanor is at State. Bobby said:  I want her fired also;  I want no member of that family around anymore.  She was fired.

Now anyone who thinks that a husband brings all these matters home to his wife and discusses them over steak and veg, with the kids at the table. I mean hmmm.  The evidence is that Bobby was the kind of person who once he got home wanted to play and talk with his kids. And when he did talk about his work it was in generalities. Not to delve into the intricacies of his rather complex work.

Bobby Kennedy was the prime mover in getting Allen Dulles fired, and his brother put him on the Taylor Commission for that purpose.  And no, he did not run home and tell Ethel, who had been watching the kids all day, about what he was learning about the man's treachery.  After all, they had a few children to take care of.

Edited October 7 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Let me continue with this since I think it is  important and has been, until recently, relatively ignored.

During the Taylor Commission. Bobby Kennedy was so insistent and intent on finding out what the real facts were behind Zapata that Dulles knew he was going to be exposed and sacked. This is why he brought in Howard Hunt to be his aide de camp.  In true CIA fashion, they decided to construct a cover story in order to switch the blame to Kennedy.  That cover story was, of course, that JFK had cancelled the D Day bombings.  It is utterly amazing the force with which this BS story took hold.  Especially in the Cuban exile community.  I know this for a fact since I talked to a Cuban national who published a newsletter in LA.  When we got to this subject, you could see the saliva dripping about JFK and Zapata.

As I said, this is and was baloney and the ARRB exposed it as such.  The final plan for the operation explicitly says that the only way a D Day mission would be flown would be from an air strip on the island, and there was a kind of natural one located in the target area. But since no beachhead was secured, it was a non starter.  Dulles had to know this.  But there is evidence that Hunt and Phillips used this false story to rile up the Cuban exiles.

Now, how did Dulles and Hunt spring this story on the public?  Hunt ghost wrote an article that was published in Fortune Magazine.  Charles Murphy agreed to a phony byline to disguise the fact it was CIA propaganda. Kennedy was furious when he saw it.  He was so angry that he stripped Murphy of his reserve status.  Do you know what Murphy said to Lansdale about this?  He wrote:  that was OK with me, because my allegiance was never really to Kennedy, it was to Allen Dulles.

When I first read that, I was a little shocked.  I thought these kinds of people only admitted this kind of stuff in movies e.g. Burt Lancaster in Seven Days in May.  But here it was in writing in front of me.

Let me wrap it up.  If you believe, as I do, that Hunt and Phillips were involved at a ground level managerial level, and that the exiles were used as mechanics, and that Dulles was part of the top level of the plot, then one can make the argument that the bad blood  stemmed back to this debacle at the Bay of Pigs.

The perps got their revenge. Just ask Dave Morales.

 

 

Edited October 7 by James DiEugenio

[Robert Morrow]

On 9/30/2024 at 2:34 PM, Kevin Balch said:

Why would Ethel Kennedy invite Allen Dulles to RFK’s funeral? Surely RFK would have shared any doubts he had about the Warren Commission with his wife.

Ethel Kennedy did not think Allen Dulles murdered JFK or RFK.

Did someone mention Robert Kennedy's funeral of June 8, 1968? Let me mind read Jackie Kennedy for a bit. She, like Robert Kennedy and Ethel Kennedy, believed Lyndon Johnson killed JFK. Then LBJ's mortal enemy RFK gets gunned down and Jackie is probably wondering "Did LBJ just murder RFK too?" That is me guessing what was going on.

At RFK’s Funeral (Evening of Friday, June, 8, 1968 at St. Patrick’s Cathedral in NYC) Jackie Kennedy responded to Lady Bird Johnson’s condolences with “EXTREME HOSTILITY.” I wonder how Jackie felt about Lyndon Johnson?

 Btw, FBI chief J. Edgar Hoover (longtime LBJ ally) and the FBI announced the arrest of James Earl Ray for the murder of MLK on this day (June 8, 1968) just to spite the Kennedys and take the national spotlight away from them

 https://www.texasmonthly.com/arts-entertainment/at-funeral-lbj-and-lady-bird-couldnt-make-their-peace-with-the-kennedys/

 [“Even at a Funeral, LBJ and Lady Bird Couldn’t Make Their Peace With the Kennedys,” Julia Sweig, Texas Monthly, April 2021]

 Also: [Julia Sweig, Lady Bird Johnson: Hiding in Plain Sight, pp. 392-393]

 QUOTE

 After the warm exchange with Ted, Ethel, and Rose, Lady Bird perhaps expected to find a similar display of manners from the wounded yet ultracareful Jackie, the one Kennedy with whom she shared the most history. Not so. “And then,” Lady Bird recorded, sounding a bit perplexed, “I found myself in front of Mrs. Jacqueline Kennedy. I called her name and put out my hand. I hardly know how to describe the next few moments of time. She looked at me as though from a great distance, as though I were an aberration. I felt extreme hostility. Was it because I was alive? At last, without a flicker of expression, she extended her hand very slightly. I took it with some murmured words of sorrow and walked on quickly. It was somehow shocking. Never in any contact with her before had I experienced this.” 

 UNQUOTE

 [Julia Sweig, Lady Bird Johnson: Hiding in Plain Sight, pp. 392-393]

 

Edited October 7 by Robert Morrow

[Karl Kinaski]

10 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

It was Bobby Kennedy who made his brother fire Allen Dulles

Not so fast.

On Thuesday April the 18th 1961 Kennedy had lunch with James Reston and Arthur Schlesinger jr. Kenndy said (acc. to Schlesinger A THOUSAND DAYS), quote: 

Quote

 The President asked me to luncheon with James Reston. In spite of the news, Kennedy was free, calm and candid; I had rarely seen him more effectively in control. Saying frankly that reports from the beaches were discouraging, he spoke with detachment about the problems he would now face. “I probably made a mistake in keeping Allen Dulles on,” he said. “It’s not that Dulles is not a man of great ability. He is. But I have never worked with him, and therefore I can’t estimate his meaning when he tells me things. . . . Dulles is a legendary figure, and it’s hard to operate with legendary figures.” As for CIA, “we will have to do something. . . . I must have someone there with whom I can be in complete and intimate contact—someone from whom I know I will be getting the exact pitch.” 

Quote

About Dulles and Bissell he (Kennedy)  said little. I think he had made up his mind at once that, when things settled down, they would have to go. He
regretted this because he liked them both. 

The decicion to fire Dulles not immediately  was a pure political decicion acc. to Schlesinger, quote: (It is now April 21th 1961)

Quote

I had been scheduled to leave that Friday for a conference in Italy. When
I asked the President whether I should still go, he said, “Yes, you might as
well. We are only picking up the pieces here. Maybe you can explain to
them over there what we have been doing. Do your best.” At the end of the
afternoon I dropped by the West Wing to say goodbye. When I stuck my
head through the open door from Evelyn Lincoln’s office, I saw Lyndon
Johnson sitting by the desk; but, as I began to retreat, Kennedy beckoned
me in. They were talking again about the CIA. The President said that he
could not understand how men like Dulles and Bissell, so intelligent and so
experienced, could have been so wrong, but added that nothing could be
done about CIA immediately. So long as he kept Dulles there, he said, the
Republicans would be disinclined to attack the administration over the
Cuban failure. The Vice-President vigorously agreed.

 

No RFK involved here at all ... 

[Robert Morrow]

6 minutes ago, Karl Kinaski said:

Not so fast.

On Thuesday April the 18th 1961 Kennedy had lunch with James Reston and Arthur Schlesinger jr. Kenndy said (acc. to Schlesinger A THOUSAND DAYS), quote: 

The decicion to fire Dulles not immediately  was a pure political decicion acc. to Schlesinger, quote: (It is now April 21th 1961)

 

No RFK involved here at all ... 

Do you know who NYT's James "Scotty" Reston was? A close personal friend of Allen Dulles and JFK very likely knew they were friends so he is glossing over his extreme disappointment with Allen Dulles. Reston was one of those infamous "CIA media assets" one hears so much talk about.