Furrows in the grass

[Robin Unger]

So here we are talking about a sixty foot width from the east to west window at a mark some 240 feet away into soft turf to direct the shot origin to?

What are the positives v. the negatives to the a second sixth floor shooter? What was the expectations of utilizing this over the risks of adding another team to be discovered? What was to be gained in other words?

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Al.

Speculation:

One advantage is that if there are two shooters they would be able to fire twice the number of shots in a given amount of time without the guy in the EAST window having to hammer the bolt. aka SBT

I also think that a shooter from the far west window had a clear view with out obstruction from the trees, his part was to get the job done and not be seen, hence the wittness statement that this guy was standing 10 ft back from thewindow.

numerous wittnesses have said that they heard an echo when the shots were fired, like a BANG followed by a BANG.

This may be two shooters shooting simultaniously.

As for the guy in the east window his job was to fire the shots ,AND BE SEEN DOING IT in order to set up the patsy

Edited March 17, 2005 by Robin Unger

[Tim Gratz]

Robin, re your above post:

Speculation, yes. Logical? Yes.

And, as amply noted above, there is certainly some evidentiary support for a sixth floor west-end shooter.

[Robin Unger]

Robin, re your above post:

Speculation, yes.  Logical?  Yes.

And, as amply noted above, there is certainly some evidentiary support for a sixth floor west-end shooter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Tim.

This is a frame from the hughes film provided by Lee.

It shows an unobstructed view through the trees from the sixth floor far west window.

Also Al in the first image that i posted, it is impossible to draw a trajectory line from the cops pointing finger to go back to the east window, it just won't work.

Edited March 17, 2005 by Robin Unger

[Tim Gratz]

Robin, query:

In your first post in this thread, the window from which LHO supposedly shot look closed.

Am I correct?

If so, any explanation (Robin or others)?

[Robin Unger]

Robin, re your above post:

Speculation, yes.  Logical?  Yes.

And, as amply noted above, there is certainly some evidentiary support for a sixth floor west-end shooter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Tim.

This is a frame from the hughes film provided by Lee.

It shows an unobstructed view through the trees from the sixth floor far west window.

Also Al in the first image that i posted, it is impossible to draw a trajectory line from the cops pointing finger to go back to the east window, it just won't work.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Moorman photo.

This image was taken of the motorcycle escort just as the motorcade passed the TSBD.

Notice the south west windows and the unobstructed view through the trees.

Also, has this image been cropped to take out the view of the far south east 6th floor window. ?

Tim.

I think that it appears the same as the normal view slightly open, but i cannot be 100% sure.

When blown up that image starts to pixelate, and you can't clearly see anything with enough clarity to say for certain one way or the other.

Edited March 17, 2005 by Robin Unger

[Steve Thomas]

Lee,

Hey Robin!

Aside from the furrows in the grass...

- Strike to the sidewalk on the north side of Elm [can be seen in KOAP]

- Strike to Elm Street pavement [sparks seen by underpass witnesses]

- The strike to the concrete by the manhole cover [possibly the same as the mystery man]

I have always contended that the evidence of conspiracy can be found even more than the number of shots that hit, in the number of shots that missed.

Steve Thomas

[Robin Unger]

Lee,

Hey Robin!

Aside from the furrows in the grass...

- Strike to the sidewalk on the north side of Elm [can be seen in KOAP]

- Strike to Elm Street pavement [sparks seen by underpass witnesses]

- The strike to the concrete by the manhole cover [possibly the same as the mystery man]

I have always contended that the evidence of conspiracy can be found even more than the number of shots that hit, in the number of shots that missed.

Steve Thomas

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree Steve.

Every missed shot is one more bullit that they have to account for, and for the LN theory to work, they only have (3) bullits to play with.

[Lee Forman]

I'm in alignment - full proof of conspiracy.

However, I believe that some of the shots may be redundant - or double counted. That's the only trick.

For example, the round which struck the cement and threw up dust, as stated by the unknown SS agent to Jean Hill - is that the same round that smashed through Kennedy's head from the front, continuing on it's flight path?

The possible Stemmons Sign damage - is that clipping from the throat shot, fired from behind the retaining wall or fence?

The sidewalk striation and concrete section by the manhole seem to be misses.

The .45 that allegedly bounced off the motorcop's fender - could this have ended up in the grass? Was this the one that first struck Elm? The HSCA ruled this one out as hearsay, I believe.

The hole in the windshield - as I've theorized - was that the hole created by a round fired from the rear [DalTex?] which missed, lost it's jacket and then went on to strike the curb at Main by the underpass and wound Tague?

Then the dent in the chrome around the windshield - could this have been the result of an occiput shot?

However, the range, even if you account for numerous possibly doublecounting, is as high as 8 for JFK and Connally alone, IMO.

Another thought that I had - if you consider the Muchmore frame - the one of the fatal headshot, and you account for a professional spotter working in tandem with the shooter, then there is a possible 'window' available for when all other individuals in the area would have been 'in the clear.' If you track that back, and try to make use of a front temple entry from JFKs right side, with a rear exit to the area near Jean Hill and Mary Moorman's feet - you can guesstimate as to where the shot may have originated. And, speaking for my own humble thoughts - it's not James Files shooting from behind the fence at all - but a shot from in front of the fence.

- lee

[Robin Unger]

I'm in alignment - full proof of conspiracy.

However, I believe that some of the shots may be redundant - or double counted.  That's the only trick. 

For example, the round which struck the cement and threw up dust, as stated by the unknown SS agent to Jean Hill - is that the same round that smashed through Kennedy's head from the front, continuing on it's flight path? 

The possible Stemmons Sign damage - is that clipping from the throat shot, fired from behind the retaining wall or fence?

The sidewalk striation and concrete section by the manhole seem to be misses.

The .45 that allegedly bounced off the motorcop's fender - could this have ended up in the grass?  Was this the one that first struck Elm?  The HSCA ruled this one out as hearsay, I believe.

The hole in the windshield - as I've theorized - was that the hole created by a round fired from the rear [DalTex?] which missed, lost it's jacket and then went on to strike the curb at Main by the underpass and wound Tague?

Then the dent in the chrome around the windshield - could this have been the result of an occiput shot?

However, the range, even if you account for numerous possibly doublecounting, is as high as 8 for JFK and Connally alone, IMO.

Another thought that I had - if you consider the Muchmore frame - the one of the fatal headshot, and you account for a professional spotter working in tandem with the shooter, then there is a possible 'window' available for when all other individuals in the area would have been 'in the clear.'  If you track that back, and try to make use of a front temple entry from JFKs right side, with a rear exit to the area near Jean Hill and Mary Moorman's feet - you can guesstimate as to where the shot may have originated.  And, speaking for my own humble thoughts - it's not James Files shooting from behind the fence at all - but a shot from in front of the fence.

- lee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lee.

I beleive that the dent to the chrome strip was a missed shot, which slammed into the chrome strip and then fragemented some of the particles causing the crack to the windshield.

What interests me is that when you look at the chrome strip photo the bullit strike seems to have come in from a low trajectory, more like a second floor shot.

Speculation: possible from 2nd floor Dal Tex Building.

[Lee Forman]

I'm in alignment - full proof of conspiracy.

However, I believe that some of the shots may be redundant - or double counted.  That's the only trick. 

For example, the round which struck the cement and threw up dust, as stated by the unknown SS agent to Jean Hill - is that the same round that smashed through Kennedy's head from the front, continuing on it's flight path? 

The possible Stemmons Sign damage - is that clipping from the throat shot, fired from behind the retaining wall or fence?

The sidewalk striation and concrete section by the manhole seem to be misses.

The .45 that allegedly bounced off the motorcop's fender - could this have ended up in the grass?  Was this the one that first struck Elm?  The HSCA ruled this one out as hearsay, I believe.

The hole in the windshield - as I've theorized - was that the hole created by a round fired from the rear [DalTex?] which missed, lost it's jacket and then went on to strike the curb at Main by the underpass and wound Tague?

Then the dent in the chrome around the windshield - could this have been the result of an occiput shot?

However, the range, even if you account for numerous possibly doublecounting, is as high as 8 for JFK and Connally alone, IMO.

Another thought that I had - if you consider the Muchmore frame - the one of the fatal headshot, and you account for a professional spotter working in tandem with the shooter, then there is a possible 'window' available for when all other individuals in the area would have been 'in the clear.'  If you track that back, and try to make use of a front temple entry from JFKs right side, with a rear exit to the area near Jean Hill and Mary Moorman's feet - you can guesstimate as to where the shot may have originated.  And, speaking for my own humble thoughts - it's not James Files shooting from behind the fence at all - but a shot from in front of the fence.

- lee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lee.

I beleive that the dent to the chrome strip was a missed shot, which slammed into the chrome strip and then fragemented some of the particles causing the crack to the windshield.

What interests me is that when you look at the chrome strip photo the bullit strike seems to have come in from a low trajectory, more like a second floor shot.

Speculation: possible from 2nd floor Dal Tex Building.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Robin,

I favor the North Peristyle bushes. Also for the possible shot from the front through the windshield, maybe the Connally back shot.

- lee

[Robin Unger]

I'm in alignment - full proof of conspiracy.

However, I believe that some of the shots may be redundant - or double counted.  That's the only trick. 

For example, the round which struck the cement and threw up dust, as stated by the unknown SS agent to Jean Hill - is that the same round that smashed through Kennedy's head from the front, continuing on it's flight path? 

The possible Stemmons Sign damage - is that clipping from the throat shot, fired from behind the retaining wall or fence?

The sidewalk striation and concrete section by the manhole seem to be misses.

The .45 that allegedly bounced off the motorcop's fender - could this have ended up in the grass?  Was this the one that first struck Elm?  The HSCA ruled this one out as hearsay, I believe.

The hole in the windshield - as I've theorized - was that the hole created by a round fired from the rear [DalTex?] which missed, lost it's jacket and then went on to strike the curb at Main by the underpass and wound Tague?

Then the dent in the chrome around the windshield - could this have been the result of an occiput shot?

However, the range, even if you account for numerous possibly doublecounting, is as high as 8 for JFK and Connally alone, IMO.

Another thought that I had - if you consider the Muchmore frame - the one of the fatal headshot, and you account for a professional spotter working in tandem with the shooter, then there is a possible 'window' available for when all other individuals in the area would have been 'in the clear.'  If you track that back, and try to make use of a front temple entry from JFKs right side, with a rear exit to the area near Jean Hill and Mary Moorman's feet - you can guesstimate as to where the shot may have originated.  And, speaking for my own humble thoughts - it's not James Files shooting from behind the fence at all - but a shot from in front of the fence.

- lee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lee.

I beleive that the dent to the chrome strip was a missed shot, which slammed into the chrome strip and then fragemented some of the particles causing the crack to the windshield.

What interests me is that when you look at the chrome strip photo the bullit strike seems to have come in from a low trajectory, more like a second floor shot.

Speculation: possible from 2nd floor Dal Tex Building.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Robin,

I favor the North Peristyle bushes. Also for the possible shot from the front through the windshield, maybe the Connally back shot.

- lee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lee.

I can't tell which area of the plaza that image reffers too, can you mark the location on a photo so i can get a better perspective.

[Lee Forman]

Lee.

I can't tell which area of the plaza that image reffers too, can you mark the location on  a photo so i can get a better perspective.

Robin,

Here's a view using a crop from RB Cutler's map. The red dots represent my interpretation of the existing photographic record of the area [Zapruder and Dorman mainly]. I'm still seeking to validate the existence of these individuals through other means. Bud Culligan's account as per Craig Hulet being one. Others TBD.

- lee

[Lee Forman]

Wrong attachment.

[Robin Unger]

Wrong attachment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lee is this the area you are looking at. ?

[Lee Forman]

Yep.

Difficult to use the Costella frames though. Earlier stuff the better. Groden's DVD versions do a great job.

It's been suggested to me before that these are just bushes, and that there was a strong wind moving them - this would work for me if I knew that they had been carefully sculpted before 11/22 by an expert landscaper to resemble men with cameras.

IMO, they have been concealed - just like everyone else.

Here's a comparison - I believe the re-enactment photo was taken 3 months later.

- lee