Tim Gratz and Donald Segretti

[Pat Speer]

But it strikes me we are getting far, far afield from assassination research.  Why?

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Earth to Tim. There are a number of people on this forum who, for a multitude of reasons, suspect that Kennedy was killed by a right wing conspiracy. Since you're what amounts to a right-winger here, and since you actually were involved in a right-wing conspiracy (the Segretti operation), some of us have attempted to explore your involvement, to see if there are any parallels. Unfortunately, Shanet found your arguments too annoying and said some dumb stuff unsupported by the facts. I'm sure he was just trying to get your goat.

The point I think John has been trying to make is that, much like Harry, you may know a lot more than you think you know. You saw a conspiracy up close. While you try and make light of the whole thing, to some of us here the Nixon Administration is alive and well in your old pal Karl Rove, and is worthy of investigation.

[Tim Gratz]

Interesting thoughts, Pat.

I'll reply tonight. They deserve a lot of comment.

And the reason the Kennedy assassination has not been solved is. . . because the right-wingers with the intelligence to solve it have been made to feel unwelcome in the assassination research community, the majority of which are willing to jump on the bandwagon of whatever is the latest theory to come along, regardless of how crackpot it is. (Of course, I exclude you and several others from this sheep mentality. And it does not surprise me in the least that the valuable contributiuons to research come from people such as you.)

Gotta' run now! More later!

[John Simkin]

I cannot remember every specific thing YAF was advocating forty plus years ago.  I was more active in the Young Republicans.  Read the platform of the 1972 Republican Convention.  I am sure it probably was a fair reflection of my views.

Was I in favor of winning the war in Vietnam?  Darn right.  Was I convinced that Johnson had blown the war with his policies?  Darn right there as well.  Did I volunteer to fight in the war?  No.  Very few young people did, regardless of their political persuasion.  I was part of the draft lottery and my number was never called.  Would I have obeyed the law if drafted?  Of course.

Did the people of Vietnam suffer after we abandoned them to the Communist insurgency from the North?  Terribly.  Have conservatives apologized for supporting the war?  None that I recall.  Have some leftists apologized for opposing it?  Yes, indeed.

But it strikes me we are getting far, far afield from assassination research.  Why?

The reason this topic was raised was because of its links to Watergate. I have now moved this thread to that section. However, the Young Americans for Freedom thread was posted because Larrie Schmidt was also a member of this organization.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4437

[Tim Gratz]

Both valid points John.

Can you tell me why I, apparently the only conservative member of this august group, am anxious to pursue any CREDIBLE theory, including the possible Schmidt scenario, or the possible involvement of rogue CIA agents, when not a SINGLE one of the "lefties" seem willing to even CONSIDER anything other than a "right-wing" conspiracy?

[John Simkin]

The first of Operation Sandwedge’s objectives was very successful: Edward Kennedy was not a presidential candidate in 1972.

The second major objective, stopping George Wallace from becoming a third party candidate, took longer. Wallace’s campaign came to an end when he was shot four times by Arthur Bremer on 15th May, 1972.

Researchers have usually concentrated on the links between Operation Gemstone and this assassination attempt. For example, soon after Richard Nixon heard the news he told Charles Colson that he was concerned that Bremer “might have ties to the Republican Party or, even worse, the President’s re-election committee”. Colson now phoned E. Howard Hunt and asked him to break-in to Bremer's apartment to discover if he had any documents that linked him to Nixon or his main political opponent in the presidential election, George McGovern. According to Hunt's autobiography, Undercover, Colson later phoned him to cancel this order.

However, it was Sandwedge that was the most important of these two dirty tricks operations. It was more likely that John Ehrlichman or Bob Haldeman would have been dealing with John Caulfield or Tony Ulasewicz over this matter. This was a much more professional operation and left few clues of its involvement in Nixon’s dirty tricks campaign. Ulasewicz explains in his book, The President’s Private Eye, that he had little respect for those involved in Operation Gemstone. He also outlined how he managed to distance himself from the White House during this period. The interesting question is: “Had Ehrlichman or Haldeman given Caulfield and Ulasewicz any instructions concerning Bremer, before or after the shooting of Wallace?

In 1998 Insight Magazine obtained the 5,413-page FBI report known as the WalShot Files - a 26-volume package spanning eight years from the day of the shooting of Wallace to 1980. This includes an interview with Vincent Femia, who was the deputy state's attorney for Prince George's County at the time. Fernia explains that Nixon stepped in to control the Bremer investigation shortly after the shots were fired. At the hospital, an FBI agent hung up a hospital phone, turned to Femia and barked, "That was the president. We're taking over. The president says, “We're not going to have another Dallas here.”

Prosecutor Arthur Marshall was interviewed by Timothy W. Maier in 1998: Marshall admitted that: "We had concern that someone else was involved," Marshall says. "The question I always had is how the Secret Service found out who he was as quick as they did. They were in his apartment within an hour."

Forty-five minutes after the shooting, the WalShot Files show, a Baltimore FBI agent called the Milwaukee FBI office identifying Bremer as the shooter based on personal identification found on Bremer. The Secret Service identified Bremer's address at 5:35 p.m., it claims, after tracing his .38-caliber handgun. But 25 minutes earlier, at 5:10 p.m., when two FBI agents entered Bremer's apartment, a Secret Service agent already was there. The Secret Service agent told the FBI he was on an "intelligence-gathering mission."

When Colson asked E. Howard Hunt to go to Bremer’s apartment he understandably argued that it would be too late as by this time the police would have arrived. It was obviously important that someone got to Bremer’s apartment before the FBI did. They did. How did they manage that? Was that “Secret Service” agent involved in Operation Sandwedge?

In 1974 Wallace told United Press International that "he hoped the Watergate investigation would turn up the man who paid the money to have him shot." Wallace later said he believed the White House plumbers unit might have been involved.

The WalShot Files say Wallace had received a letter from Bernard Barker, one of the men caught in the Watergate break-in. The alleged letter is said to have claimed Bremer was paid by G. Gordon Liddy and E. Howard Hunt for shooting Wallace. All deny the allegation. According to the WalShot Files, the FBI and Barker claim the letter is a fraud.

Ulasewicz does not of course mention George Wallace in his book. Nor was he cross-examined about his investigation of Wallace during his role in Operation Sandwedge by the Senate Watergate Committee. This is surprising as Jack Caulfield admitted when he testified that the investigation of Wallace was part of Operation Sandwedge. As Ulasewicz says in his book, he was relieved when the Senate Watergate Committee showed no interest in Operation Sandwedge. All they wanted to know about was his work with Operation Gemstone. This of course only involved the cover-up when he paid hush money to the Watergate burglars. In fact, without James McCord’s testimony, Caulfield and Ulasewicz would never have been forced to testify before the Senate Watergate Committee and Operation Sandwedge would have remained a secret.

Is there any evidence of any links between Operation Sandwedge and Arthur Bremer? There is only one. In Richard E. Sprague’s, The Taking of America, he has this to say about the attempted assassination of George Wallace:

In 1972 the Power Control Group was faced with another set of problems. Again the objective was to insure Nixon's election at all costs and to continue the cover-ups. Nixon might have made it on his own. We'll never know because the Group guaranteed his election by eliminating two strong candidates and completely swamping another with tainted leftist images and a psychiatric case for the vice presidential nominee. The impression that Nixon had in early 1972 was that he stood a good chance of losing. He imagined enemies everywhere and a press he was sure was out to get him.

The Power Control Group realized this too. They began laying out a strategy that would encourage the real nuts in the Nixon administration like E. Howard Hunt, G. Gordon Liddy and Donald Segretti to eliminate any serious opposition. The dirty tricks campaign worked perfectly against the strongest early Democratic candidate, Edmund Muskie. He withdrew in tears, later to discover he had been sabotaged by Nixon, Liddy and company.

George Wallace was another matter. At the time he was shot, he was drawing 18% of the vote according to the polls, and most of that was in Nixon territory. The conservative states such as Indiana were going for Wallace. He was eating into Nixon's southern strength. In April the polls showed McGovern pulling a 41%, Nixon 41% and Wallace 18%. It was going to be too close for comfort, and it might be thrown into the House - in which case Nixon would surely lose. There was the option available of eliminating George McGovern, but then the Democrats might come up with Hubert Humphrey or someone else even more dangerous than McGovern. Nixon's best chance was a head-on contest with McGovern. Wallace had to go…

Arthur Bremer was selected. The first contacts were made by people who knew both Bremer and Segretti in Milwaukee. They were members of a leftist organization planted there as provocateurs by the intelligence forces within the Power Control Group. One of them was a man named Dennis Cossini…

What evidence is there that Bremer's attempt on Wallace was a directed attempt by a conspiratorial group? Bremer himself has told his brother that others were involved and that he was paid by them. Researcher William Turner has turned up evidence in Milwaukee and surrounding towns in Wisconsin that Bremer received money from a group associated with Dennis Cassini, Donald Segretti and J. Timothy Gratz.

According to William Turner he cannot remember discovering this information. Maybe, Sprague made a mistake. Was it another researcher who supplied him with this information? Or did Sprague make it up? That is of course possible, but if he did, why did he select Tim Gratz’s name? At this time, according to the public records, the only involvement Tim had in this matter was the statement he gave to Ulasewicz concerning Donald Segretti’s attempts to recruit him into Nixon’s dirty tricks campaign. If Sprague wanted to falsely implicate Nixon into the assassination attempt on Wallace, there were far better names to use. In fact, because of his public record of reporting Segretti, Tim was the last person anyone would have believed was involved in some sort of conspiracy against Arthur Bremer. Yet he decided to set up Tim Gratz. Why?

Then there is the question why Tony Ulasewicz was sent to interview Tim Gratz. It seems very strange that the chief field officer of Operation Sandwedge should be chosen for this task. What was Ulasewicz really doing when he interviewed Tim? Is it possible that this meeting was about something else? Is it possible that the meeting was also about providing Tim with a cover-story? Is it possible that information about Dennis Cassini and Tim Gratz being involved in some sort of Nixon conspiracy against Arthur Bremer had already leaked out. Is this the information that eventually found its way to Richard Sprague. Was Sprague’s task to give Tim a cover story? If so, Tim can consider himself lucky. Look what happened to Dennis Cassini?

[Tim Gratz]

I had a pleasant surprise tonight. My father and my sister dropped in unexpectedly from Wisconsin. I obviously mentioned the controversy on the Forum and my sister reminded me that she was at our parents' house when Ulasewicz and his associate came by to attempt to record Segretti. I had forgotten she was around at the time. (She is two years younger than me and was studying nursing at the UW at the time.)

She remembered a few details about the meeting that I had forgotten. She says that we met Ulasewicz and associate at the airport. She states that Ulasewicz and associate, for whatever reason, stayed at two different hotels in Madison. She says that while we were in my folks' living room waiting for the Segretti call that never came, Ulasewicz regaled us with tales of what it was like to do security work for a presidential campaign.

She was very curious about who was with Ulasewicz. I showed her some of the photos on the Watergate section of this web-site and she could not recognize any of them (including Caufield). It bugs me no end that I do not recall the name of the second gentleman because I know it was a name that became part of the public record during the Watergate hearings.

She also remembered listening to Ulasewicz testify before the Senate Watergate Committee.

She is convinced that Ulasewicz and his companion came from Washington to "check me out" and (probably) to assure me that the Nixon campaign had nothing to do with the character I knew as Donald Simmons.

Edited August 1, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[John Simkin]

She was very curious about who was with Ulasewicz.  I showed her some of the photos on the Watergate section of this web-site and she could not recognize any of them (including Caufield).  It bugs me no end that I do not recall the name of the second gentleman because I know it was a name that became part of the public record during the Watergate hearings.

I would have thought it was former New York City police detective, Anthony LaRocco.

[Tim Gratz]

John, does Ulasewicz in his memoirs identify who accompanied him to Wisconsin? Or does he imply he came alone?

Thanks! (I do think Ulasewicz's companion may also have been a former NYC police officer but I am not certain if my memory serves me correctly on this.)

One other thing to add to my previous post. My sister tells me she was also interviewed by FBI agents. I had apparently forgotten this. In fact, I can't believe she would not have told me but it sure seemed like brand new information to me!

[John Simkin]

John, does Ulasewicz in his memoirs identify who accompanied him to Wisconsin?  Or does he imply he came alone?

Thanks!  (I do think Ulasewicz's companion may also have been a former NYC police officer but I am not certain if my memory serves me correctly on this.)

One other thing to add to my previous post.  My sister tells me she was also interviewed by FBI agents.  I had apparently forgotten this.  In fact, I can't believe she would not have told me but it sure seemed like brand new information to me!

No he does not say who was with him. However, he does say in the book that Anthony LaRocco was appointed as his assistant.

Interesting point about your sister being interviewed by the FBI. I assume this was later during the Watergate investigation. Did they interview you as well? If not, why not, surely you had much more to tell the FBI than she did.

[Tim Gratz]

John, you must not read what I post. On some thread I mentioned that the FBI first approached the State Senator for whom I had been working and asked him why Donald Segretti had been calling him. He realized the calls were for me and gave the FBI agents the name of the hotel where I was then working. They came to the hotel and interviewed me. I told them the story. They told me I would probably have to be interviewed by the Senate Watergate Committee (but I never was). Clearly I told the FBI about Segretti's approach to me. My sister was present when Ulaswicz and associate were in my parents' living room. Apparently I had told her about the incident at some point prior to that time.

[Guest John Gillespie]

Both valid points John.

Can you tell me why I, apparently the only conservative member of this august group, am anxious to pursue any CREDIBLE theory, including the possible Schmidt scenario, or the possible involvement of rogue CIA agents, when not a SINGLE one of the "lefties" seem willing to even CONSIDER anything other than a "right-wing" conspiracy?

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Tim,

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. I'm a social Conservative who believes that one of the major obstacles in getting at the truth is the blind spot that many of us develop when emotions are injected into these matters. That is why I have the utmost admiration for Mr. Hougan ("Secret Agenda..."), who has worked for organizations considered as Liberal, i.e. NPR and Harper's. Nonetheless neither he nor Colodny/Gettlin, whose political sentiments were stated as Liberal in "Silent Coup", felt the need to bend over backwards to explain that they, too, thought Nixon was a weasel. It's not the point.

Dick Russell did a tremendous, long term work in the creation of "The Man Who Knew Too Much" but an odyssey was not required to sense and read that he clearly sought to blame it all on Right Wingers. It's an easy trap. We could list a number of other researchers & writers in this regard. I realize this might oversimply matters, but in the interest of space, time, etc.........

The polarization focus is, of course, exactly what the perpertrators want and I'm talking here of the project engineers, so to speak. In my view, the critical coverup for them involves that of which Jim Marrs writes in "Rule By Secrecy." Another educative book is "Compromised: Clinton, Bush and the CIA" by Terry Reed and John Cummings. The average American (unlike this 'August Group'; after all, July is over) doesn't wish even to consider the shocking tales in these books or elsewhere. I'm not a booster of Mr. Sprague, but I like his term "The Power Control Group."

Watergate has become more fascinating and meaningful for me because of the links to "the whole Bay of Pigs thing..." which then lead to what I allude in the previous paragraph. The Power Control Group absolutely cannot and will not allow exposure there. Kennedy wanted to change the currency regulations. So did Lincoln. Follow the money.

Regards To All, JAG

Edited August 1, 2005 by John Gillespie

[William Turner]

My apologies. I pulled out "Government by Gunplay" and found that I did mention Gratz one time. I never interviewed him but the info came from the Milwaukee Journal. On p. 65 I wrote: "There is also the fact that Nixon dirty trickster Donald Segretti was active in Wisconsin. A former state chairman of the College Republicans, J. Timothy Gratz, disclosed that Segretti met with him in Madison and urged him to recruit persons to perform mischief against Democratic candidates. Segretti's machinations were so suspicious, Gratz said, that he got in touch with CREEP headquarters in Washington. CREEP decided to dispatch two representatives to Wisonsin to check on Segretti, one of whom was Anthony T. Ulasewicz, the former New York 'Red Squad' policeman whom CREEP had sent to Massachusetts to ty to dig up dirt on Ted Kennedy. Segretti reportedly denied to the Senate Watergate Committee that he had contacts with Bremer during the Wisconsin primary."

The interesting part of this scenario is that it establishes Ulasewicz's presence in Wisconsin at the critical time. I interviewed by phone Earl S. Nunnery, who was the terminal master for the C&O ferry which ran between Milwaukee and Michigan, where it is known that Bremer stalked Wallace. On one occasion when he went to the ferry terminal, Bremer was accompanied by an older man with whom he talked excitedly about a campaign and bringing lots of kids across, but in the end it was only Bremer who was ticketed. The man was build like a football player six feet two and 225 pounds. He wore a mustache and had curley black hair. He did most of the talking, with a New York accent or Jersey brogue. He was attired in a mod checked suit and wide tie with a stickpin with a red stone. The FBI showed Nunnery an assortment of photos, none of which he could identify. Could this have been Ulasewicz?

[Pat Speer]

The interesting part of this scenario is that it establishes Ulasewicz's presence in Wisconsin at the critical time. I interviewed by phone Earl S. Nunnery, who was the terminal master for the C&O ferry which ran between Milwaukee and Michigan, where it is known that Bremer stalked Wallace. On one occasion when he went to the ferry terminal, Bremer was accompanied by an older man with whom he talked excitedly about a campaign and bringing lots of kids across, but in the end it was only Bremer who was ticketed. The man was build like a football player six feet two and 225 pounds. He wore a mustache and had curley black hair. He did most of the talking, with a New York accent or Jersey brogue. He was attired in a mod checked suit and wide tie with a stickpin with a red stone. The FBI showed Nunnery an assortment of photos, none of which he could identify. Could this have been Ulasewicz?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On what day did this take place? I just read something in a book about Martha Mitchell that may or may not tie in to all this activity. In Martha, by Winzola Mclendon, p.167, it says that a few days after John Mitchell resigned as AG in order to work on CREEP full-time--so this is March?--Jack Caulfield, who was sunning himself by the pool along with the Mitchells at Bebe Rebozo's house in Florida, "had to leave in a hurry because of a problem in Washington." Caulfield, of course, was a former NY detective, and was working with Ulasewicz. I wonder what this sudden "problem" was and if it really was in Washington.

[John Simkin]

John wrote:

Ulasewicz was also Tim Gratz contact.

What do you mean by this?

As you know full well, John, when I complained to CREEP about the activities of Donald Segretti, CREEP sent Ulasewicz to Wisconsin to try to record Segretti's next call to me (he was using the alias "Simmons").

I think I have found out where Sprague got his information from about Tim Gratz. I was reading a collection of articles about politics in the early 1970s that was published by Ramparts Magazine entitled ‘Big Brother and the Holding Company: The World Behind Watergate’ (1974). If you remember, Sprague says he got the information from William W. Turner, who at the time worked for Ramparts.

There are several articles that provide interesting information about Donald Segretti (Donald Simmons). Donald Freed’s article ‘Gemstone’ explores Segretti’s recruitment policies. He explains how Segretti targeted members of the “ultra-conservative Young Americans for Freedom (YAF). He claims that E.Howard Hunt and Charles Colson had been founder members of this organization. I found information from a Washington Post article (June 21, 1972) that the lawyer that Hunt contacted after the Watergate break-in, Douglas Caddy, was the first executive director of the YAF. I suspect that the group that Sprague referred to when writing about Tim Gratz, Dennis Cassini and Donald Segretti was indeed the YAF.

Donald Freed refers to the fact that Segretti attempted to recruit another member of the YAF, Ronald Johnson of San Diego State College, to join his dirty tricks campaign. However, Segretti’s ideas were not innocent as those that were apparently expressed to Tim. According to Johnson, Segretti suggested “getting-rid of” left-wing leaders in San Diego. Johnson claimed that Segretti was a “paramilitary operative” with extremist ideas. Johnson turned Segretti down.

Freed also refers to the case of Roger Gordon, a member of another covert Republican Party group called the Secret Army Organization (SAO). On 13th July, 1973, Associated Press reported that Gordon had attempted to gain political asylum in Fiji. Gordon claimed he “had secret information concerning Watergate” and feared for his life. His information was that he had seen Tony Ulasewicz giving orders to Arthur Bremer on an Ohio ferry. It was of course Ulasewicz, chief field officer with Operation Sandwedge, who had met with Tim Gratz to talk about Segretti.

The SAO was another organization linked to Segretti. In another article that first appeared in Ramparts, Richard Popkin writes about the SAO in San Diego. Richard Nixon planned to hold the Republican Convention in San Diego in 1972. According to Louis Tackwood, a member of SAO, the plan was to “turn San Diego into a bloodbath during the convention”. This included killing a senior Republican official and planting a bomb in the convention hall. The plan was to implicate the Democrats in these acts of violence. This would paint the Democratic Party as an extremist organization. The plan came unstuck when a member of the SAO, William Yakopec, was charged with bombing the Guild Theatre. The chief witness against Yakopec was Barry Godfrey, a fellow member of SAO. It turns out that Godfrey had been a FBI undercover agent since 1967.

In 1973, Jerry Busch gave an interview to the editor of the local newspaper about his time in the SAO. According to Busch, the SAO were getting their orders from Donald Segretti (he used the name Donald Simmons). It seems that Segretti’s activities were not as harmless as he made out. According to these witnesses Segretti was organizing paramilitary activities. If Ronald Johnson is to be believed, this included murder and acts of terrorism.

[David G. Healy]

John wrote:

Ulasewicz was also Tim Gratz contact.

What do you mean by this?

As you know full well, John, when I complained to CREEP about the activities of Donald Segretti, CREEP sent Ulasewicz to Wisconsin to try to record Segretti's next call to me (he was using the alias "Simmons").

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think I have found out where Sprague got his information from about Tim Gratz. I was reading a collection of articles about politics in the early 1970s that was published by Ramparts Magazine entitled ‘Big Brother and the Holding Company: The World Behind Watergate’ (1974). If you remember, Sprague says he got the information from William W. Turner, who at the time worked for Ramparts.

There are several articles that provide interesting information about Donald Segretti (Donald Simmons). Donald Freed’s article ‘Gemstone’ explores Segretti’s recruitment policies. He explains how Segretti targeted members of the “ultra-conservative Young Americans for Freedom (YAF). He claims that E.Howard Hunt and Charles Colson had been founder members of this organization. I found information from a Washington Post article (June 21, 1972) that the lawyer that Hunt contacted after the Watergate break-in, Douglas Caddy, was the first executive director of the YAF. I suspect that the group that Sprague referred to when writing about Tim Gratz, Dennis Cassini and Donald Segretti was indeed the YAF.

Donald Freed refers to the fact that Segretti attempted to recruit another member of the YAF, Ronald Johnson of San Diego State College, to join his dirty tricks campaign. However, Segretti’s ideas were not innocent as those that were apparently expressed to Tim. According to Johnson, Segretti suggested “getting-rid of” left-wing leaders in San Diego. Johnson claimed that Segretti was a “paramilitary operative” with extremist ideas. Johnson turned Segretti down.

Freed also refers to the case of Roger Gordon, a member of another covert Republican Party group called the Secret Army Organization (SAO). On 13th July, 1973, Associated Press reported that Gordon had attempted to gain political asylum in Fiji. Gordon claimed he “had secret information concerning Watergate” and feared for his life. His information was that he had seen Tony Ulasewicz giving orders to Arthur Bremer on an Ohio ferry. It was of course Ulasewicz, chief field officer with Operation Sandwedge, who had met with Tim Gratz to talk about Segretti.

The SAO was another organization linked to Segretti. In another article that first appeared in Ramparts, Richard Popkin writes about the SAO in San Diego. Richard Nixon planned to hold the Republican Convention in San Diego in 1972. According to Louis Tackwood, a member of SAO, the plan was to “turn San Diego into a bloodbath during the convention”. This included killing a senior Republican official and planting a bomb in the convention hall. The plan was to implicate the Democrats in these acts of violence. This would paint the Democratic Party as an extremist organization. The plan came unstuck when a member of the SAO, William Yakopec, was charged with bombing the Guild Theatre. The chief witness against Yakopec was Barry Godfrey, a fellow member of SAO. It turns out that Godfrey had been a FBI undercover agent since 1967.

In 1973, Jerry Busch gave an interview to the editor of the local newspaper about his time in the SAO. According to Busch, the SAO were getting their orders from Donald Segretti (he used the name Donald Simmons). It seems that Segretti’s activities were not as harmless as he made out. According to these witnesses Segretti was organizing paramilitary activities. If Ronald Johnson is to be believed, this included murder and acts of terrorism.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When one hears the 70's name, Big Brother and the Holding Company, Tim Gratz does NOT come to mind -- Janis Joplin however, DOES!