Dawn Meredith Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 John: Did Billie Sol ever show? Did Barr? Did you have an opportunity to speak with Joan Mellen? Will she join us here on the forum? Hope you take lots of (digital) pics so you can post em. DAwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted November 20, 2005 Author Share Posted November 20, 2005 What was Lamar Waldron's topic? Lamar outlined the contents of his book Ultimate Sacrifice. I had dinner with him last night and he has agreed to discuss the book on the Forum. Interestingly, he says he made a lot of use of the Forum (and my website) in his research. I think he has got it about 95% right. I suspect that his theory will upset some members because he argues that JFK was serious about his plan to overthrow Castro in December, 1963. Others will disagree about the reasons why LBJ and RFK covered up the assassination. It is a very impressive book and recommend that you all buy it. It is possibly the best book written on the JFK assassination so far. It is mainly based on recently released documents. I did have a brief discussion with Joan before she gave her presentation. I told her that Gerry Hemming was sitting in the front row. Unfortunately she did not take my question at the end of presentation. I do not have a camera with me but Pat Speer has been very active with his camera. Did Billie Sol ever show? Did Barr? No. Nor did they attend the other conference in Dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Meredith Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 [ Did Billie Sol ever show? Did Barr? No. Nor did they attend the other conference in Dallas. Thanks John, Now I don't feel quite so bad for missing the conference. I had a lot to ask Billie Sol, but, as usual he chickened out. Barr had told me in an email a few weeks back he had no plan to attend, but I figured he changed his plan. Maybe he chickened out when he found out Walt Brown was speaking. Walt is very angry with Barr. (But I am keeping out of this one!!) What are you thoughts of DP? Isn't it a lot smaller than it appears in the pics? My first time there was very overwhelming. I was literally in tears walking around that first night. Will await Pat's pics!!! Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Parsons Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 (edited) What was Lamar Waldron's topic? Lamar outlined the contents of his book Ultimate Sacrifice. I had dinner with him last night and he has agreed to discuss the book on the Forum. Interestingly, he says he made a lot of use of the Forum (and my website) in his research. I think he has got it about 95% right. I suspect that his theory will upset some members because he argues that JFK was serious about his plan to overthrow Castro in December, 1963. Others will disagree about the reasons why LBJ and RFK covered up the assassination. It is a very impressive book and recommend that you all buy it. It is possibly the best book written on the JFK assassination so far. It is mainly based on recently released documents. I really have no qualms about believing that the Kennedy's had a coup against Castro in the workings. This could well be valid, and, after looking at the book's website, I am actually somewhat excited about it and may attempt to get my hands on it. I also note that Vincent Palamara gives it his thumbs up on the Amazon page, as well as Bill Turner on the book's website, which are good signs. At the very least, it will have a substantial amount of new material to chew over. I think the stuff about the mafia being the primary mover behind the assassination is pretty much wrong, though. Edited November 20, 2005 by Owen Parsons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 John wrote (about Lamar Waldron): I think he has got it about 95% right. I suspect that his theory will upset some members because he argues that JFK was serious about his plan to overthrow Castro in December, 1963. John has seen the light!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stapleton Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 (edited) John wrote (about Lamar Waldron): I think he has got it about 95% right. I suspect that his theory will upset some members because he argues that JFK was serious about his plan to overthrow Castro in December, 1963. John has seen the light!!! Tim, Don't throw your hat in the air just yet. From my standpoint, there's still a small problem with accepting this scenario (as discussed in the Hartmann/Waldron thread) i.e. if JFK planned to overthrow Castro, wouldn't this have made the Soviets mad as a hornet, possibly prompting them to tear up the recently signed nuclear test ban treaty? Not exactly a stunning political result for a President planning to go to the people as a man with a global vision. I'm keen to know how Lamar Waldron explains this apparent incongruity. He might have a credible explanation but until then I'm not convinced. Edited November 20, 2005 by Mark Stapleton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Hemming Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 What was Lamar Waldron's topic? Lamar outlined the contents of his book Ultimate Sacrifice. I had dinner with him last night and he has agreed to discuss the book on the Forum. Interestingly, he says he made a lot of use of the Forum (and my website) in his research. I think he has got it about 95% right. I suspect that his theory will upset some members because he argues that JFK was serious about his plan to overthrow Castro in December, 1963. Others will disagree about the reasons why LBJ and RFK covered up the assassination. It is a very impressive book and recommend that you all buy it. It is possibly the best book written on the JFK assassination so far. It is mainly based on recently released documents. I really have no qualms about believing that the Kennedy's had a coup against Castro in the workings. This could well be valid, and, after looking at the book's website, I am actually somewhat excited about it and may attempt to get my hands on it. I also note that Vincent Palamara gives it his thumbs up on the Amazon page, as well as Bill Turner on the book's website, which are good signs. At the very least, it will have a substantial amount of new material to chew over. I think the stuff about the mafia being the primary mover behind the assassination is pretty much wrong, though. -------------------------------- You are right on the money "Kid" ?!! About 10 years ago I spoke with Waldron at his home in Georgia. He later wrote some comment about why the hell I had called him -- and it appeared on my "Google-Alerts" notification some time later. Why the hell I had called him ?? He was then a member of Gordon Winslow's "Master Researchers List", and had indicated [along with Gooch & others] that: He was interested in all data & docs on one "Gerry Patrick Hemming" !! I said: Hey guy, I'm a member on that list, or hadn't you noticed ??!! Midway through the conversation I reminded him that if he wanted to get something from the [wannabe-SOF-egotistic-elderly, etc., etc.] "horse's mouth" -- then here is my telephone number, and when I get the chance I will have one of the NARA regulars forward some [usually derogatory] document reference one 'GPH" !! When I mentioned to him that I had competed against one of his US Army [Nat'l Guard] kinfolk at Camp Perry , Ohio during the 1965 "National Matches", he said "..Oh..I didn't know that..". When I went on to describe his kin as having used a very expensive leather [and body clinging] German shooting coat, he said "..Well..I don't talk with him much..". I went further to state that we both had tied -- and lost during the final "President's 100" competiton, and he mumbled something. I reminded him that one of the characters in the "JFK" movie had stated that: Had he been in charge of the Warren Comm'n -- he would have FIRST located and interviewed the 100 best rifle shooters in the country. [As I recall -- it was the Senator Russell character talking to kostner, and played by Walter Mathau] He didn't sound too pleased with that reference -- so I went on to say that his kinfolk was very close to the top of our "short list" of possible Dealey Plaza shooters, and not just for his skill !! But that this was due to much more serious evidence !! Specifically the information that: He had been associated with "subjects of Interest" during our investigation. Moreover, I stated that he was indeed assigned to the group supporting the Memphis P.D. during the MLK, Jr. hit !! That just about ended the conversation, and any further contact with Lamar !! I just ordered the book on Amazon.com, and it will be here on the 25th. So far, I think what these two authors have ignored [might be wrong] -- is the fact that Santo Trafficante was a "known" agent for Fidel's DGI security service !! And moreover, that he reported to Cmdte. Manuel "Barba Roja" Piniero [Chief of the DSE/DGI "Wet Ops" unit for the Western Hemisphere] I had arguments with Dick Billings over the "Cosa Nostra Dood It" routine -- and insisted that the Dagos & Wops in the "Cozy Nostril" were heavily penetrated and controlled by both DGI & GRU !! This was during the 1992 "JFK Act" hearings, where I also confronted Blakey as he left to leave the Hearing Room. "Da Nasty Ol' Mob Dood It !!" What a bunch of horse-xxxx. Marcello had taken out Trujillo under an agreement with RFK's guys, and he figured that he was "immune-while-owed-BIG-Time" !! CHAIRS, GPH ___________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Carroll Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 Marcello had taken out Trujillo under an agreement with RFK's guys, and he figured that he was "immune-while-owed-BIG-Time" !! RFK had Marcello abruptly deported in April, 1961, the same month as the Bay of Pigs and just three months into the administration. Who would have been "RFK's guys" so early in the administration, in the month after Marcello's deportation when Trujillo was killed? T.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 (edited) Mark Stapleton wrote: Don't throw your hat in the air just yet. From my standpoint, there's still a small problem with accepting this scenario (as discussed in the Hartmann/Waldron thread) i.e. if JFK planned to overthrow Castro, wouldn't this have made the Soviets mad as a hornet, possibly prompting them to tear up the recently signed nuclear test ban treaty? Not exactly a stunning political result for a President planning to go to the people as a man with a global vision. I'm keen to know how Lamar Waldron explains this apparent incongruity. He might have a credible explanation but until then I'm not convinced. Several comments, Mark. Your objection was the same objection John Simkin had raised when I raised similar arguments re the Kennedys' intentions re Cuba in late 1963. Yet John seems convinced to a 95% certainty after his dinner meeting with Mr. Waldron. Second, we all need to read the book. Third, Mr. Hemming's comments are, as always, interesting (and that characterization is an understatement). Fourth, I read that Martino had written that JFK had made a deal with Khruschev to replace Castro with a less belligerent person (ala Tito?). Query whether the Waldron thesis at all ties in with this? Finally, with respect to the so-called peace initiatives with Castro, remember that Lisa Howard became convinced they had all been a fraud and she became a vociferous public opponent of RFK, so hostile to him she was willing to kiss her career goodbye. Edited November 21, 2005 by Tim Gratz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Hemming Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Marcello had taken out Trujillo under an agreement with RFK's guys, and he figured that he was "immune-while-owed-BIG-Time" !! RFK had Marcello abruptly deported in April, 1961, the same month as the Bay of Pigs and just three months into the administration. Who would have been "RFK's guys" so early in the administration, in the month after Marcello's deportation when Trujillo was killed? T.C. ---------------------------- MORE nit picking "amateur-night" horse-xxxx !! So now we are to believe that RFK hadn't been calling hoods like Hoffa, et al. "little Giggling Girls" during years of hearings before the Congress. That he hadn't availed himself of the opportunity to slip his "guys" in under the funding disbursements of the Congress. Well, where that didn't work out -- Papa Joe paid the freight !! Too baad YOU weren't around to arrange the "CHAIRS" and music back then !! Nawh !! RFK was just some "book-reading/frat-house" punk, a real lonsome-dove-ranger -- and he was greased into the AG slot by a "recess appointment' -- maybe ??!! Wise Up !! Of course he had an organization, and he had "guys" !! And RFK sure as hell didn't wait for the post-election [Nov. '60] transition period to scheme out "What Must Be Done" !! Those that bitched and whined about his alleged "complete and total under-qualification for the job !! So now, those very same accusers -- who ranted about his "youth-and-inexperience" are your "guiding lights". With George Smathers being blackmailed by Trujillo, Hell -- he was sure as xxxx, a dead man -- even long before JFK's candidacy !! We got into Smather's good graces through Trujillo's "Bag-Man" -- One Robert Emmett Johnson. Wow !! was Smathers relieved when we assured him that we were NOT in on the "Generalissimo" hit -- and that we didn't have our grubby hands out. But we sure as hell had the "inside-track" on White House events after that first little chat up in West Palm !! Get real !! And don't waste my time with bullxxxx allegations. You got a reasonable query ?? STATE IT !! GPH ________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 The allegation that Smathers was being blackmailed by Trujillo, coupled with the close friendship between Smathers and the Kennedys, would certainly provide the Kennedys with reason to endorse the Trujillo hit. Is this what you are suggesting, Gerry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stapleton Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Mark Stapleton wrote:Don't throw your hat in the air just yet. From my standpoint, there's still a small problem with accepting this scenario (as discussed in the Hartmann/Waldron thread) i.e. if JFK planned to overthrow Castro, wouldn't this have made the Soviets mad as a hornet, possibly prompting them to tear up the recently signed nuclear test ban treaty? Not exactly a stunning political result for a President planning to go to the people as a man with a global vision. I'm keen to know how Lamar Waldron explains this apparent incongruity. He might have a credible explanation but until then I'm not convinced. Several comments, Mark. Your objection was the same objection John Simkin had raised when I raised similar arguments re the Kennedys' intentions re Cuba in late 1963. Yet John seems convinced to a 95% certainty after his dinner meeting with Mr. Waldron. Second, we all need to read the book. Third, Mr. Hemming's comments are, as always, interesting (and that characterization is an understatement). Fourth, I read that Martino had written that JFK had made a deal with Khruschev to replace Castro with a less belligerent person (ala Tito?). Query whether the Waldron thesis at all ties in with this? Finally, with respect to the so-called peace initiatives with Castro, remember that Lisa Howard became convinced they had all been a fraud and she became a vociferous public opponent of RFK, so hostile to him she was willing to kiss her career goodbye. Tim, All good points well made. Responses: 1. John's statement that he thinks Waldron has got it 95% is interesting given his initial skepticism. I'm keen to hear the reasons for this because, as you know, I respect his opinions. 2. I agree. Today I purchased Joan Mellen's book as well as Dick Russell's "The man who knew too much" and Dallek's recent LBJ bio (an abridgement of his two volume life of LBJ, "Lone Star Rising", 1991, and "Flawed Giant", 1998). So Lamar Waldron's book is down the list at the moment but I'll get around to it soon. 3. Gerry's comments are always interesting. His cultivated coarse yet savvy machismo style, combined with a tendency towards liberal use of the lingo peculiar to those of his calling can sometimes make understanding his message difficult for someone not expert in the anti-Castro milieu, such as myself. But this is my problem--everyone has their style. 4. I was unaware of any such deal. Are you sure this is not just speculation? 5. I believe JFK was just keeping all his options open. I believe his overriding preoccupation was getting re-elected. Apologies for spelling errors. I'm still waiting on my new glasses, I sat on the old ones. How about those optometrists? Walk in the shop and they want to fit you up with a thousand dollars worth of eyeware--multifocal lenses, titanium frames. What a racket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Mark, yes I too wait with interest a more detailed report from John re what he learned from Mr. Waldron. I assume what he learned is mostly in the book and I consider the book is proably a "must read". (Although I have numerous objections to Professor Mellen's book I do consider that it ought to be read (critically) ny serious assassination researchers. I know you will like Russell's book. I prefer Caro's multi-volume biography of LBJ to Dallek's biography. Best: "A Texan Looks at Lyndon." (Joke, but it is an eye-opening book.) Re the story of a "Kennedy-Khruschev deal"to remove Castro: I raised it as a possible answer to your objection but I do not endorse the theory and I am not aware of any substantial evidence to support it. It will be interesting to see if this is discussed in the Waldron book. As an aside, that could also fit into Trento's scenario that the same group that removed Kennedy also removed Khruschev. (I.e. such a deal could have been the "last straw" for those unhappy with the apparent growing relationship between Kennedy and Khruschev.) Sorry to hear about the misfortune with your glasses. $1,000! Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Apologies for spelling errors. I'm still waiting on my new glasses, I sat on the old ones. (Mark Stapleton) Mark, I hope you weren't making a spectacle of yourself? James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Sitting on one's glasses reminds us that hindsight is 20/20...and expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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