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John, I met Agee and I also knew Richard Helms. Through my experiences with Agee and Helms, and my experiences with KGB officers and double agents, I know for a fact that Helms recruited Agee to infiltrate the KGB and that Agee actually defected by feigning infiltration.

I'll email my manuscript to you. I don't yet have a publisher. I just started emailing the query letter to literary agents within the past 10 days. One prominent New York agent immediately asked for the book proposal, which I immediately sent to him. Having a great book and getting it published are two separate things. The publishing business is entirely new to me. The manuscript is currently being professionally edited, but I have done so much rereading and editing that I believe it to be well written in its current form.

Edited by Tony Frank
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John, I met Agee and I also knew Richard Helms. Through my experiences with Agee and Helms, and my experiences with KGB officers and double agents, I know for a fact that Helms recruited Agee to infiltrate the KGB and that Agee actually defected by feigning infiltration.

I'll email my manuscript to you. I don't yet have a publisher. I just started emailing the query letter to literary agents within the past 10 days. One prominent New York agent immediately asked for the book proposal, which I immediately sent to him. Having a great book and getting it published are two separate things. The publishing business is entirely new to me. The manuscript is currently being professionally edited, but I have done so much rereading and editing that I believe it to be well written in its current form.

Tony,

I have seen your posts on another forum; JFK Lancer. I do not believe you ever implied you were a "former CIA agent". I saw constant requests for information that was readily available in the NARA archives. Any real agent worth his salt would have accessed these records on his own. My biggest question for you is.... How can we believe your bonafides?? do you have government paystubs, government records on yourself to substantiate just who in the heck you are? As a former member of the military, I can surely say that you can an should have records of some sort that can substantiate who you claim you are. And while I am at it, what does this if anything have to do with the assassination of John F. Kennedy? I see nothing in your posts that tells me you offer any new evidence to the puzzle. I have some questions for you;

1) what year were you born?

2) How were you recruited?

3) When was your last assignment?

4) How could you in a compartmentalized Agency be privy to compartmentalized information outside of your own assignment?

5) To which division were you assigned?

6) Name some code acronyms to which you were assigned to?

Answer these and provide proof of your bonafides and I think everyone here will lend an ear. a manuscript does NOTHING. Government documents offer evidence.

By the way, I am former military, held a Secret Clearance, and served my country for 6 years. The CIA was molded in the cast of the military intelligence and there is very little by which you can B.S. me.

Care to indulge me??

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Bill Casey is the one that told me Agee had infiltrated the KGB.

Well, it must be true then.

Joe Trento claims that JFK was killed by Soviet/Cuban agents. How does he know? James Angleton told him. He also told the same story to several other journalists but no one believed him except Trento. I am sure Casey told plenty of people this daft story. However, very few believed him.

Precisely, John.

The disconnect between the sheer depth of Trento's connections and savvy, and the shallowness of his published conclusions and hypotheses, is starkly revealing. And when the publishing history of what ended up as The Secret History of the CIA (originally announced as The Boys in Berlin, focusing on Billy Harvey and his Wilhelmstrasse Irregulars; previewed on Amazon a few years ago, replete with cover art; then ... poof!), and the non-history of his "promised" Smedley Butler/FDR coup volume (The Last President, if memory serves) are factored into the analysis, we're left with an unsettling sense of the man and his mission (or should that be predicament?).

Here we go again with the latest argument from false authority.

Let us question the timing of the appearance of Mr. Frank's work and attempt to place it within the proper investigative contexts.

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Regarding whether Agee was sent over as a defector, I've found the CIA Studies In Intelligence article about the five different official CIA reports on Nosenko's bonifides enlightening.

Of the five studies, each took a different approach, and came up with different conclusions, but the one I thought most revealing was the one that weighs the value of what is delivered against the consequences of what is exposed.

In that regard, Agee cetainly gave up a lot more than what he got back, whatever he got back, given the careers of 400 agents, whose opinions on Agee won't change even if you convince them he really was on their side. I don't think the CIA considered those agents all expendable.

I would believe Agee as to which side he was on.

As to Agee and JFK assassination, his disclosures about LICOVY 3 - the American student from Philadelphia who was recruited in NYC UN by the Russians, and then moved to Mexico City, provide a suspect who should still be identified.

BK

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Frankly, Greg and Charles, I don't care whether or not you believe my information. I'm not going to change facts just because you find them difficult to believe, and I'm not going to "qualify" anything just to satisfy you.

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Frankly, Greg and Charles, I don't care whether or not you believe my information. I'm not going to change facts just because you find them difficult to believe, and I'm not going to "qualify" anything just to satisfy you.

Then why make these accusations in the first place? Surely you must have known that people would not take this at face value and that you would need to provide proof. Until you can supporting documentary evidence there is really nothing here that we should believe.

I presume that you are discussing all of this to add to the historical record and clarify a few points. I am a History student and I don't believe that i could use you as a source and get away with it. Unless you have a well sourced manuscript, no academic or reputable publisher would take it upon themselves to publish your book.

I say, if you are going to possibly slander someone (Agee), then back your statements up.

John

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I presume that you are discussing all of this to add to the historical record and clarify a few points. I am a History student and I don't believe that i could use you as a source and get away with it. Unless you have a well sourced manuscript, no academic or reputable publisher would take it upon themselves to publish your book.

I say, if you are going to possibly slander someone (Agee), then back your statements up.

My book is very well documented. It contains very little of my personal knowledge of Agee. In due time, everything will be exposed and the United States government will have to acknowledge the truth.

Perhaps you would be interested in the last five paragraphs of my book -

"For all the readily available public information in this book, the underlying truth is a tightly guarded secret. The ability of renegade CIA officers to kill Members of Congress, perpetrate terrorist acts, and perpetrate other subversive activities will remain intact until the United States Government exposes the corruption and acknowledges that massive KGB infiltration of the CIA was exposed in 1984. But renegade CIA officers have no intention of letting people find out about the vast corruption that has existed in the CIA and the Government for over fifty years.

"There are no bounds of legality restraining the renegade CIA officers. They operate with impunity and they will do as they please as long as they think that they can get away with it. Allen Dulles stated point blank that “legality” would mean that the CIA is “tainted.” Renegade CIA officers will step over the bounds of legality, ignoring them as if they didn’t exist, until they are exposed.

"The renegade CIA officers cited throughout this book should not be confused with legitimate CIA officers. The CIA was established for legitimate purposes and has performed many functions vital to national security since 1947.

"The Roman orator and statesman Marcus Cicero spoke to Caesar and the Roman Senate in 42 B.C. and said, “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banners openly against the city.'”

“'But the traitor moves among those within the gates freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears no traitor; he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation; he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city; he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist.'”

By the way, how is it slander to state that Agee had been recruited to infiltrate the KGB?

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Thanks John. I always appreciate input. My purpose in using the word renegade is to distinguish between the renegades and legitimate CIA officers. I don't see any other way of doing that unless I identify them as "renegade CIA officers." I don't want to condemn the entire CIA, hence the distinction.

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Last night I saw a documentary on the Discovery (Science?) Channel. This documentary made me think of the issues at hand in this topic, as it seems to be spot on with what Tony Frank has been saying.

This documentary dealt with "mole hunter" James J. Angleton (and his failure to expose any large scale KGB infiltraion of the CIA). Also this documentary dealt largely with the fact that there were, in fact, infiltrators in the CIA (mainly one was covered) and on the other hand there were several moles working for the US in Russia. Many (or all) of those working for the US were eventually exposed and killed/deported due to the actions of Aldrich Ames.

He is imprisoned for the rest of his life for selling top secret information to the Soviet's and to Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldrich_Ames

I wonder if Tony Frank is covering this issue in his book?

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  • 2 months later...

Thought members might be interested in this article from the "Intelligence" newsletter that is based in France (21 January 2008)

PHILIP AGEE "GETS THE CIA" ONE LAST TIME

When former CIA officer Philip Agee died during the night of 7-8 January, the major media's reports produced headlines that showed things had changed since he published "Inside the Company: A CIA Diary" in 1975: 0109 REU; CIA Whistle-Blower Philip Agee Dies in Cuba, Anthony Boadle (see extract below); 0110 AP & NYT, CIA Agent Philip Agee Dead In Cuba (see extract below); 0110 IHT/NYT, Obituary - Philip Agee, 72, Renegade Former CIA Agent. As Reuters mentions under the

subtitle, "US Called Him a Traitor", during the 1970s and 1980, and well after the end of the Cold War, the major US press

couldn't mention Agee without using the noun "traitor".

But if things have changed with the major media, one can wonder if there have been any positive changes at the CIA which now kidnaps, secretly detains and tortures anyone and not just Third World leftists and suspected Communists, as during Agee's time. The real "proof" came on the night of Agee's death when his wife and former ballet "etoile", Giselle Roberge-Agee, telephoned "Intelligence" to announce his death. "Intelligence", which has known Agee for over a quarter of a century, immediately looked up what the Internet encyclopedia, "Wikipedia" had to saw about Agee: "No Entry", believe it or not! There were several entries concerning authors and journalists who had written about Agee (with references to an article about Agee being a possible Soviet traitor), but no entry about Agee, author of a book which sold 15 million copies throughout the world and was translated into 27 languages.

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Indeed the Wikipedia entry on Agee that now exists was created in January of this year.

Did you create it John?

John

The Wikipedia webpage existed before his death. However, it was taken down as soon as his death was announced. That left my page on him top of the Google search for "Philip Agee". It was soon up again with the stuff about him being a traitor. This is very important as it is clear that a lot of newspapers now get their information from Wikipedia.

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In addition to journalists use of wikipedia I must also point out that a lot of sports journalists have been known to use content provided at the football forum http://forum.football365.com The forum is frequently quoted in the Irish Times sports section in which they list quotes from footballers. Other newspaper have not been so forthcoming in attributing their content to the forum.

Wikipedia is increasingly bein used by journalists and students alike. If I were to use wikipedia as a reference I would automatically fail my essay.

John

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  • 3 years later...

John,

Because of the Wilson/Palme affair, I have been thinking a lot about Phil Agee, who was recruited out of Notre Dame by the CIA, and who, I believe, is responsible for the law that make it a crime to knowingly reveal the identity of a CIA agent.

Agee identified not only the agents he knew and worked with, or knew about - like LICOVY3 of Mexico City, a double agent American student from Philadelphia who is suspected by some of being the student "Steve" or "Ed" Keenan who rode Oswald around Mexico City on the back of his motorbike, but others as well. After the agents he exposed were taken out of the field, and the networks he exposed disassembled, he came out with another book that also exposed many agents, though not Welsh - the one he is accused of exposing who was then murdered.

Upon investigation, it was discovered that when replaced, the new CIA agents in embassies abroad merely took over the same offices and phone numbers as their predecessors, so it was no problem for Agee to out their replacements as well.

Agee is still alive, I believe, and his take on the Wilson/Palme affair would be interesting.

BK

Agee is dead and has been for awhile, a hit was performed and he was killed according to a sorce.

Edited by Scott Kaiser
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