Folks it’s Friday

[John Simkin]

Totally unsupported. I favor human rights in all countries. You, however, seem to be tolerant of the well-documented human rights abuses in Cuba.

This is not true. When have I ever defended human rights abuses in Cuba or any other country? All I have pointed out is that Castro’s record is better than the neo-fascist military dictatorships that existed in Cuba in the 1950s. These were of course governments that were supported by the American government.

What we do know is that you have been unwilling to criticize CIA covert activities that have undermined democratically elected government in Guatemala, Chile, etc. Even if they were not democratically elected, the CIA had no right to try and bring these governments down. However, according to your postings, it is alright to overthrow these governments if it can be found that they have received financial support from so-called communist regimes or/and if the American government perceive it is in the national interest to overthrow these governments. (See the thread on the CIA overthrow of the Guatemalan government in 1954.)

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5945

[Tim Gratz]

John, if you are such a defender of truth and justice, why do you not respond to the deliberately false charge made by Steve Gaal that I may work for a company founded on drug money?

As you posted an hour or so ago the test of a civil libertarian is how he reacts to abuses against his enemies. I would like to think we are not enemies but we certainly are from different political perspectives.

Why rail against what you consider civil rights abuses that occured a generation ago when you have an abuse being perpetrated in your very own forum?

Granted, Gaal prefaced his charge with the word "possibly" but that could be used to justify any slander.

I could post that Gaal never even indicated in his bio his current residence and it is possible he did not do so because he is a convicted pedophile.

You can run the Forum your own way (and I do commend you for permitting me to post when we are so far apart (due to the recent test, we can now even measure the difference numerically!) but if it was my forum and a member deliberately posted false information I would revoke his membership.

How you handle my complaint about Gaal will say a lot about whether you truly are a civil libertarian.

[Greg Parker]

Economic Left/Right: -5.50

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.87

Like John D, I'd have liked neutral as an option on some questions.

[Tim Gratz]

Greg, I also agree with John Dolva on that point. I suspect others do as well.

Edited February 4, 2006 by Tim Gratz

[Dawn Meredith]

GB is no imbecile. Sad how leftists have to use personal attacks to substitute for rational debate.

Oh? He does a fine job of impersonating one then. I have Republican colleagues and

I don't know how they are not embarrased by this man.

My score here was -4.75 and -4.15

Dawn

Edited February 4, 2006 by Dawn Meredith

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Two quotes, from literally hundreds I could have chosen from that Einstein of politics Dub-ya.

" I am uh- proud to shake the Uh-hand of an Iraqi citizen who had his uh- hand cut off by Saddam Hussein"

"We are up against people who kill at the whim of a hat"

Just a bit of fun Tim, I am sure your boy is much cleverer than he comes across.......

[Greg Wagner]

Left/Right: -5.13

Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.82

[Guest]

Better still:

"You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test."

Source: United Press International, "Bush Proposes Increase in Education Funds," Mark Kukis, Feb. 21, 2001

"It will take time to restore chaos and order—but we—order out of chaos."

—Bush, speaking to reporters about the situation in Iraq

Source: Federal Document Clearing House, "President George W. Bush Delivers Remarks Regarding POWS," April 13, 2003

"I couldn't imagine somebody like Osama bin Laden understanding the joy of Hanukkah." —at a White House menorah lighting ceremony, Washington, D.C., Dec. 10, 2001

"I'm looking forward to a good night's sleep on the soil of a friend." —George W. Bush, on visiting Denmark, Washington D.C., June 29, 2005

"Who could have possibly envisioned an erection — an election in Iraq at this point in history?" —George W. Bush, at the white House, Washington, D.C., Jan. 10, 2005

Those who enter the country illegally violate the law." —George W. Bush, Tucson, Ariz., Nov. 28, 2005

"And let me say in conclusion, thanks for the kids. I learned an awful lot about bathtub toys - about how to work the telephone. One guy knows - several of them know their own phone numbers - preparation to go to the dentist. A lot of things I'd forgotten. So it's been a good day."

-- January 21, at a Head Start center in Catonsville, Maryland

"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"-Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000

"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family."—Greater Nashua, N.H., Chamber of Commerce, Jan. 27, 2000

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but for predecessors as well."—Washington, D.C., Jan. 29, 2001

"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."

...George W. Bush to Sam Donaldson, 8/17/93

"The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country."

- George W. Bush

"We cannot let terrorists and rogue nations hold this nation hostile or hold our allies hostile.'' -George W. Bush, in Aug. 2000

"The public education system in America is one of the most important foundations of our democracy. After all, it is where children from all over America learn to be responsible citizens, and learn to have the skills necessary to take advantage of our fantastic opportunistic society." -George W. Bush, May 1, 2002

"For every fatal shooting, there were roughly three non-fatal shootings. And, folks, this is unacceptable in America. It's just unacceptable. And we're going to do something about it." -George W. Bush, May 14

"But I also made it clear to (Vladimir Putin) that it's important to think beyond the old days of when we had the concept that if we blew each other up, the world would be safe." -George W. Bush, May 1, 2001

"I want it to be said that the Bush administration was a results-oriented administration, because I believe the results of focusing our attention and energy on teaching children to read and having an education system that's responsive to the child and to the parents, as opposed to mired in a system that refuses to change, will make America what we want it to be - a more literate country and a hopefuller country." -George W. Bush, Jan. 2001

It must be nice to have such a lucid thinker as Commander in Chief

[Greg Wagner]

GB is no imbecile. Sad how leftists have to use personal attacks to substitute for rational debate.

Hi Tim,

I thought your comment was funny, but of course it was because I knew that you were joking.

Scary thing is that there are actually people running around in this country who would agree with imprisoning those with whose politics they do not agree. McCarthy's witch hunt is a good example of how fear and ignorance can pervert rational concerns about national security. Certainly very real external threats exist today, but "national security" is also the age old cry of the oppressor and the tyrant.

Where many Americans find themselves today is facing these threats to their nation and way of life from external sources, but unable to trust a government (not limited to GB's administration, but certainly perpetuated by it) that has used the cry of "national security" to mask its own crimes for decades- Kennedy's assassination chief among them.

Just my two cents...

[John Dolva]

Believe me, it happens here in OZ too. You could substitute names and events and you're talking about Australia. No doubt numerous other countries as well. I

f we were talking about Australia there would be no shortage of right wingers, bigots, zealots and loonies to throw into the pot.

I guess it's a bit of a load to have to deal with things as here we're looking at Kennedy's assassination. On the whole the ability/courage to see what happens is to the credit of US citizens here.

[John Simkin]

I guess it's a bit of a load to have to deal with things as here we're looking at Kennedy's assassination. On the whole the ability/courage to see what happens is to the credit of US citizens here.

I agree. Doug Caddy has shown that if you used to be a right-winger, you can still work hard to get the truth in the public domain.

[Lee Forman]

Economic Left/Right: -4.00

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.36

Bit of a 'Chitlins' test though - no?

How about some more interesting questions, like:

Do you believe that your media may be controlled, and that what constitutes as 'news' is in reality hard slanted, sugar coated rubbish, that actually translates as finely spun propaganda?

Do you feel that you have any control whatsoever as an individual, in your present Nation, especially if that Nation pledges itself as 'democratic?' Do you feel represented? As an individual, do you believe that you can create or effect positive change or improvement?

In your present Government, do you believe that you may suffer serious consequences for being honest, truthful and open?

As a citizen of your Nation, do you believe that you are 'free?'

Being 'Politically Correct' is actually a very good thing.

Outsourcing of jobs to 3rd world countries as opposed to introducing control, taxation, or other alternatives for addressing unemployment in your own Country is okay, since those people need the money more than you do.

"Lifetime tenure" is positive for Federal Judges and should continue, so that they can be free to decide cases without fear of political reprisals for unpopular decisions.

The Electoral College is mandatory in order to truly hold democratic elections.

The methods for regulating the election process and tabulating poll results in my Country are fair, accurate, representational, and 100% valid, without any means or possibilities for illegal influence or control.

"The justification for acts done pursuant to orders does not exist if the order was of such a nature that a man of ordinary sense and understanding would know it to be illegal." Would you follow orders if they went against your moral beliefs?

If you were in the military, and found yourself under the command of a superior officer who consistently placed you and your unit in harm's way, due to poor judgement, lack of experience, etc, 'fragging' would never be considered as a possible option.

Assisting in the trade of heroin and other narcotics in exchange for weapons, influence, and political ideology is okay, because the end justifies the means.

etc.

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

GB is no imbecile.

To a complete moron, the half-wit is a genius. That might explain a thing or two.

[Tim Gratz]

Robert Charles-Dunne:

Your stoop to insults only demonstrates the content of your character.

Gerry Hemming is extremely intelligent and very informed about both current and historical events. And he has an incredible memory as well.

[Adam Wilkinson]

My results:

Economic Left/Right: -7.00

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.56

Edited February 5, 2006 by Adam Wilkinson