William Kelly Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Oswald's friend and Minsk radio factory forman in USSR, Alexander Ziger, brought his family to USSR from Argentina, where it has been reported that he worked for an American company, so he could be connected to CIA. Does anyone know what American company he worked for? I also believe Ziger was Jewish, had fled Europe to Argentina from Nazis, and therefore could also be connected with MOSSAD. How did MCPiper miss this? He also had a daughter who dated Oswald, and moved to Argentina where she was interviewed about Oswald. Does anyone know where this interview was published and what she said? Ziger spoke fluent English, kidded Oswald about the surevillance, reportedly encouraged him to attend the dance where he met Marina, and knew before hand when Oswald was going to return to USA. BK bkjfk3@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Bill, I can't remember off-hand where I read this but Ziger working for an American company may have been a translation misunderstanding. It might have meant 'American Committees' aka Office of Inter-American Affairs. FWIW. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 (edited) Oswald's friend and Minsk radio factory forman in USSR, Alexander Ziger, brought his family to USSR from Argentina, where it has been reported that he worked for an American company, so he could be connected to CIA. Does anyone know what American company he worked for? I also believe Ziger was Jewish, had fled Europe to Argentina from Nazis, and therefore could also be connected with MOSSAD. How did MCPiper miss this? He also had a daughter who dated Oswald, and moved to Argentina where she was interviewed about Oswald. Does anyone know where this interview was published and what she said? Ziger spoke fluent English, kidded Oswald about the surevillance, reportedly encouraged him to attend the dance where he met Marina, and knew before hand when Oswald was going to return to USA. BK bkjfk3@yahoo.com Bill...John Armstrong has complete coverage of the Ziger family in HARVEY AND LEE. John traveled to Argentina and interviewed the Ziger girls. They described the Oswald that they knew as VERY SHORT AND SMALL. (see attachment) Jack Edited March 7, 2006 by Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 (edited) This clipping was one of several pieces of evidence obtained from Ana Ziger by John Armstrong on his trip to Argentina. Jack PS...I have the entire clipping (all Spanish), in a box somewhere, but do not know which box. It is not translated, and my Spanish is very rusty. Edited March 7, 2006 by Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Very interesting, Jack. I was always under the impression that the woman in the photo with Oswald below was Ella Germann. Is is definitely Ana Ziger do you know? James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Very interesting, Jack.I was always under the impression that the woman in the photo with Oswald below was Ella Germann. Is is definitely Ana Ziger do you know? James Ana Zieger was interviewed by the newspaper (see clipping). She furnished the photo to the reporter. She identified the photo as herself and Oswald. That is all I know. Armstrong knows the rest. Would she lie? Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Very interesting, Jack. I was always under the impression that the woman in the photo with Oswald below was Ella Germann. Is is definitely Ana Ziger do you know? James Ana Zieger was interviewed by the newspaper (see clipping). She furnished the photo to the reporter. She identified the photo as herself and Oswald. That is all I know. Armstrong knows the rest. Would she lie? Jack I guess not. Thanks, Jack. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 (edited) Information on Alexander Ziger is a little disappointing, the only entry for him at Nambase.org is from John Newman's Oswald & The CIA pages, 147-148. Norman Mailer's Oswald's Tale has a few pages devoted to the Ziger's, pages 97-101 searching is difficult as there is not an index, can you believe that? The answers concerning the pertinent questions did not appear in the selected text 97-101. I have included a few URL's that are noteworthy. http://www.russianbooks.org/ http://www.russianbooks.org/oswald-in-russia.htm (quite interesting, this would be a good place to look). Warren Commission Report pages 607, 709 This page, if it reproduces is from maryferrell.org under CIA Documents from Sensitive Study, which lists the Ziger's. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...92&relPageId=76 (I am not certain but this may be from DDP Richard Helms Jan 25, 1964 memo to the Warren Commission as an attachment, see Commission Document 321) Ostensibly Norman Mailer sought out Don Alejandro (Alexander) Ziger in Argentina 1992, but he had.....already died. Alex Levine did (on behalf of Mailer?) interview the now widowed Mrs. Ziger, but implies she was so old her comments were limited to (referencing Oswald) 'he was a nice young man.' see Oswald's Tale 'acknowledgements pg xxi' Also see: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...ancedResults.do And......I would mention that perhaps Mailer could have done a better job if he had done the job that Edward J. Epstein did, when researching Lee Harvey Oswald's stay in Minsk, Epstein did the research community a tremendous favor, when he wrote in Legend the Secret World of Lee Harvey Oswald "......Oswald posed arm and arm with a dark young foreigner named Alfred, whom he described in his dictionary as Hungarian (but who was subsequently identified in a letter to Oswald as a Cuban). At the time there was a group of Cubans being trained in Minsk who lived in the area of the radio factory, and Oswald reportedly befriended a number of them. (Legend pg. 115) Edited March 7, 2006 by Robert Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted March 8, 2006 Author Share Posted March 8, 2006 Bill...John Armstrong has complete coverage of the Ziger family in HARVEY AND LEE. John traveled to Argentina and interviewed the Ziger girls. They described the Oswald that they knew as VERY SHORT AND SMALL. (see attachment) Jack Jack, I knew that, but just forgot. Thanks for reminding me. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 The most interesting thing that Ana Ziger told Armstrong is that Oswald did not know the Russian language. Everything had to be translated for him. (Presumably an act on Oswald's part so the Russians wouldn't suspect him of being a language-trained spy.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 The most interesting thing that Ana Ziger told Armstrong is that Oswald did not know the Russian language. Everything had to be translated for him. (Presumably an act on Oswald's part so the Russians wouldn't suspect him of being a language-trained spy.) Guess he didn't know English too well either - this does not strike me as a NYC, New Orleans, or Dallas accent, either. Very odd. http://www.russianbooks.org/oswald/tapes.htm - lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Lee, Thanks for that link. It sounds to me like Oswald is speaking with some kind of slight foreign accent. Which would fit with Armstrong's theory that Oswald (that is, the one who went to Russia and back) was a Russian-speaking eastern European immigrant. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 (edited) Lee,Thanks for that link. It sounds to me like Oswald is speaking with some kind of slight foreign accent. Which would fit with Armstrong's theory that Oswald (that is, the one who went to Russia and back) was a Russian-speaking eastern European immigrant. Ron _________________________________________ Lee and Ron, IMHO, he's speaking (or at least trying to speak) with a "proper," upper-class, British accent. Factoid: When I was living in the Czech Republic, I noticed that students of English in Central and Eastern Europe (and Western Europe, too, as far as I know) are taught British English (vocabulary, grammar, and dialect ), as are/were their teachers, as were THEIR teachers...... After all, it does make sense... England being so much closer to Central and Eastern Europe than Amerika... I believe Armstrong's theory is that the Oswald who went to Russia and back was a Russian-speaking immigrant from Hungary. Perhaps that "Oswald" had been taught British English in school in Hungary before immigrating to the U.S. and/or had learned British English from his (Hungarian) parents? FWIW, Thomas _________________________________________ Edited March 8, 2006 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 Lee, Thanks for that link. It sounds to me like Oswald is speaking with some kind of slight foreign accent. Which would fit with Armstrong's theory that Oswald (that is, the one who went to Russia and back) was a Russian-speaking eastern European immigrant. Ron _________________________________________ Lee and Ron, IMHO, he's speaking (or at least trying to speak) with a "proper," upper-class, British accent. Factoid: When I was living in the Czech Republic, I noticed that students of English in Central and Eastern Europe (and Western Europe, too, as far as I know) are taught British English (vocabulary, grammar, and dialect ), as are/were their teachers, as were THEIR teachers...... After all, it does make sense... England being so much closer to Central and Eastern Europe than Amerika... I believe Armstrong's theory is that the Oswald who went to Russia and back was a Russian-speaking immigrant from Hungary. Perhaps that "Oswald" had been taught British English in school in Hungary before immigrating to the U.S. and/or had learned British English from his (Hungarian) parents? FWIW, Thomas _________________________________________ Does anyone know offhand "when exactly" Alexander Ziger left Russia, after Lee Oswald returned to the United States with Marina? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Lee, Thanks for that link. It sounds to me like Oswald is speaking with some kind of slight foreign accent. Which would fit with Armstrong's theory that Oswald (that is, the one who went to Russia and back) was a Russian-speaking eastern European immigrant. Ron _________________________________________ Lee and Ron, IMHO, he's speaking (or at least trying to speak) with a "proper," upper-class, British accent. Factoid: When I was living in the Czech Republic, I noticed that students of English in Central and Eastern Europe (and Western Europe, too, as far as I know) are taught British English (vocabulary, grammar, and dialect ), as are/were their teachers, as were THEIR teachers...... After all, it does make sense... England being so much closer to Central and Eastern Europe than Amerika... I believe Armstrong's theory is that the Oswald who went to Russia and back was a Russian-speaking immigrant from Hungary. Perhaps that "Oswald" had been taught British English in school in Hungary before immigrating to the U.S. and/or had learned British English from his (Hungarian) parents? FWIW, Thomas _________________________________________ Does anyone know offhand "when exactly" Alexander Ziger left Russia, after Lee Oswald returned to the United States with Marina? When someone eventually becomes interested in the relationship between Lee Oswald and the Ziger family, undoubtedly they will discover, what some might call "the language thing." Point being, on this side of the Atlantic the individuals very familiar with Lee Harvey Oswald will expound at length on his training in Russian,.......his ability to speak Russian quite well.....But, when Oswald is around the Ziger's all of a sudden it is the inverse, he does not speak Russian, or if he did, it's not on the record. When John Armstrong wrote Harvey and Lee, he added a few passages on page 288 referencing the Ziger's and the issue of Oswald's language insofar as it pertained to KGB audio and personal surveilance, or bug's and acquaintances, if you will...... "Many researchers, including myself assumed that Oswald spoke near perfect Russian while in Russia. This assumption was based on statements by Oswald's widow Marina, who said that he spoke Russian with a Baltic accident when she met him at a dance in March, 1961 in Minsk.... Later, on the same page....."It is also clear that after he arrived in the Soviet Union, he dared not let anyone know that he spoke Russian, especially the people with whom he spent most of the time, the Zigers, who he probably assumed were reporting to the KGB"........ So, in 2007 the seekers of the truth, have Oswald' Ghost by Norman Mailer, documents which have been de-classified pertaining to LHO, Marina, the Ziger family, the various defector's, [particularly Robert Webster, whom met Marina back when she was still Marina Prusakova] as sources of information regarding Oswald in Russia, and activities concerning same. Hal Verb wrote a fine piece regarding this aspect of the Marina/Webster/Oswald triumvirate in the article Priscilla Johnson: Witness for the Prosecution. In 1964, during the Warren Commission Hearings, Isaac Don Levine told Allen Dulles: "I ascribe utmost importance to the whole matter of these Argentines. The two girls [the daughters of Alexander Ziger]. They were in Minsk, but Marina has address of relative in the United States. Marina and LEE OSWALD smuggled out a letter or a manuscript for the Argentine family with them when they came...It was not clear whether it was he or she who smuggled it. I was surprised and asked her how did LEE take out something like that? Well, the implication was rather nice -- that he was warm-hearted -- that he was kind. They [the Ziger's] were stuck and it had to do with a communication to one relative in the United States and others in Argentina. To try to get those two girls out and never had a word. The old folks had given up their Argentine citizenship, but the girls were born in Argentina and claimed that by right as their citizenship. Mr. Dulles, if their [emigration] could be arranged, it would be worthwhile. The Soviet Union is not going to hold two Argentine citizens even though they were friends of OSWALD'S. They are not quite that smart" Allen Dulles replied it was a matter of finding the right contacts, possibly the Argentine Ambassador to the Soviet Union, and having him intervene. Isaac Don Levine wanted Allen Dulles to have the CIA contact the Argentines "to set the machinery in motion." Isaac Don Levine would later become a director of the CIA proprietary, Radio Liberty, in 1970. But back to the post assassination period...... ISAAC DON LEVINE AND MARINA OSWALD Isaac Don Levine contacted Marina Oswald regarding their collaborating on a book. The FBI reported: "James Hunt, CIA, furnished the following information to the Liaison Agent on March 27, 1964. Isaac Don Levine has been collecting material for a book concerning OSWALD. This book is scheduled to be published in April 1964. Levine allegedly has spent considerable time with the widow of the Subject. Hunt explained that the CIA's source for this information was Hede Massing, who is known to the Bureau. Massing has been in contact with Levine." [FBI 105-82555-2184] Isaac Don Levine was also "in contact" with Ruth Paine as well. An FBI memorandum by James P. Hosty and Bardwell Odum dated 04/01/64 stated the following....... Mrs. Ruth Paine, 2515 W. 5th Street, Irving, Texas was contacted concerning four personal letters she had recieved from Marina Oswald while Marina Oswald was residing in New Orleans, and the two personal letters notes she had recieved from Marina Oswald while she was residing in Dallas, Texas. Mrs Paine again stated these letters and notes, which were written in the Russian language were mostly personal in nature, dealing with Marina Oswald's marriage problems and Mrs. Ruth Paine's marriage problems. They also dealt with the possibility that Marina Oswald would have to return to the Soviet Union. Mrs. Paine advised she had previously refused to furnish these letters to the FBI because they were personal in nature and that previous information she had furnished to the FBI had been 'leaked' to the press. Mrs. Paine stated that several weeks ago Isaac Don Levine contacted her at which time she let Levine look at these letters and notes. He did not take notes from these letters and notes, nor did he copy these letters and notes, merely reading them hurriedly and then returning them to Mrs. Paine........ It would be worth mentioning that IMO the same dynamic of revealing sources and methods, as an excuse to not explore proverbial 'smoking gun's was used with great success in not running down leads that would also have resolved the "unresolved questions" regarding the Kennedy Assassination. But IF there had been a conspiracy, which included members of the U.S. Government, those individuals would have known that from the beginning, Would they not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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