Gerry Hemming and John Orr?

[James Richards]

Moments before the assassination at the corner of Main and Houston as the presidential limo slowed to make the turn, a photograph was snapped showing an individual in the background who somewhat resembled Gerry Hemming. Comparisons were made and Gerry stated that it wasn't him.

In one of the A.J. Weberman Nodules (I forget which one), It is claimed that Gerry Hemming said he had a doppelganger at the time named John Orr. I have spent quite some time on John Orr and discovered that a man by that name did exist and he belonged to the 15th Air Tactical Command during Korea. He also went on to be involved in some of the activities in Latin America.

Anyway, this is John Orr below circa mid 1950's. I would be interested if forum members think he makes a good Gerry Hemming double and could he be the man at the corner of Main and Houston?

The reason why Gerry Hemming would have a doppelganger we can leave for another time.

James

[John Simkin]

Moments before the assassination at the corner of Main and Houston as the presidential limo slowed to make the turn, a photograph was snapped showing an individual in the background who somewhat resembled Gerry Hemming. Comparisons were made and Gerry stated that it wasn't him.

According to a posting made by Gerry on 27th August 2005, he was at "Little Joe's" on the day JFK died: "The day of the JFK assassination, Jim Lewis was [as usual] playing Chess at "Little Joe's" apartment by the Miami River - together with Eddy Collins, "Skinny", Dick Whatley, Bobby Willis, and Bill Dempsey. When Garman started dancing in the street soon after hearing the news from Dallas, Jim chastised him severely (along with Cuban pissed-off neighbors); He reminded him that just four days before; he had been a member of our security detail for JFK at MIA (Monday, 18th Nov.), and that he had been prepared to "take-a-bullet" for the President!!"

[James Richards]

Moments before the assassination at the corner of Main and Houston as the presidential limo slowed to make the turn, a photograph was snapped showing an individual in the background who somewhat resembled Gerry Hemming. Comparisons were made and Gerry stated that it wasn't him.

According to a posting made by Gerry on 27th August 2005, he was at "Little Joe's" on the day JFK died: "The day of the JFK assassination, Jim Lewis was [as usual] playing Chess at "Little Joe's" apartment by the Miami River - together with Eddy Collins, "Skinny", Dick Whatley, Bobby Willis, and Bill Dempsey. When Garman started dancing in the street soon after hearing the news from Dallas, Jim chastised him severely (along with Cuban pissed-off neighbors); He reminded him that just four days before; he had been a member of our security detail for JFK at MIA (Monday, 18th Nov.), and that he had been prepared to "take-a-bullet" for the President!!"

Thanks, John. I had forgotten about that posting.

I gather 'Skinny' was Ralph Schlafter. Anyway, I guess the question is, could the man in Dallas be John Orr? And let's not forget this report below.

James

Edited May 22, 2006 by James Richards

[Ron Ecker]

James,

Yes, I believe it could be Orr at Main and Houston.

This is probably the same man, in the Allen photo taken about 12:45 pm:

Ron

[Lee Forman]

Hi James.

Here's Hathaway, who provides more detail concerning the rifle, which Lawrence apparently did not see. Also a map to indicate the distance from the Plaza - the area marked in blue roughly corresponds with the detail provided by Hathaway.

VOLUNTARY STATEMENT. Not Under Arrest Form No. 86

SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT

COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS

Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22nd day of November A.D. 1963 personally appeared Philip Ben Hathaway Address 11021 Quail Run, Dallas Age 28 , Phone No. DI 8 6532 DOB: July 9, 1935 DOB: Chicago, Ill. Wks: Lone Star Gas Co, Research & Development Dept. RI 1 5711 Ext 776

Deposes and says:

Just before Noon today, my friend John Stevens Rutter Lawrence, who works with me, and I and two other friends left the Texaco Building where we work going to the parade. We were walking down Commerce up to Main and Main to Akard andwhile [sic] we were walking up Akard towards Main Street we passed a man who was carrying a rifle in a gun case. I saw this man walking towards me, walking towards Commerce, and too particular attention to him because ofhis [sic] size. I am 6'5" and weigh 200 pounds. This man was very tall, approx 6'6" or 6'7" over 250 pounds, very thick and big through the chest, in his 30's, dirty blonde hair worn in a crew cut. Was wearing a grey colored business suit with white dress shirt, fair complexion. I remarked to my friend that there was a guy carrying a gun in all this crowd and made the remark that he was probably a secret service man. I could very easily identify this man if I ever saw him again. The gun case was holding a rifle because I could tell there was a gun in it as it was a combination leather and cloth gun case and without a gun, it would have been limp, but it was heavy and he was carrying it by the handle and the barrell [sic] of the gun was up at a 45 degree angle. It was beige or tan leather and olive drab material.

We can place the time we saw this man walking with the gun as I recall someone in the crowd asking for the time and they said it was 11:50A.M.

/s/ Philip Ben Hathaway

Subscribed and sworn to before me on this the 22nd day of Nov A. D. 1963

/s/ Rosemary Allen

Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

- lee

[Richard J. Smith]

Moments before the assassination at the corner of Main and Houston as the presidential limo slowed to make the turn, a photograph was snapped showing an individual in the background who somewhat resembled Gerry Hemming. Comparisons were made and Gerry stated that it wasn't him.

In one of the A.J. Weberman Nodules (I forget which one), It is claimed that Gerry Hemming said he had a doppelganger at the time named John Orr. I have spent quite some time on John Orr and discovered that a man by that name did exist and he belonged to the 15th Air Tactical Command during Korea. He also went on to be involved in some of the activities in Latin America.

Anyway, this is John Orr below circa mid 1950's. I would be interested if forum members think he makes a good Gerry Hemming double and could he be the man at the corner of Main and Houston?

The reason why Gerry Hemming would have a doppelganger we can leave for another time.

James

James,

If you compare the ears, Orr's are way too small. IMO, not him.

RJS

According to a posting made by Gerry on 27th August 2005, he was at "Little Joe's" on the day JFK died: "The day of the JFK assassination, Jim Lewis was [as usual] playing Chess at "Little Joe's" apartment by the Miami River - together with Eddy Collins, "Skinny", Dick Whatley, Bobby Willis, and Bill Dempsey. When Garman started dancing in the street soon after hearing the news from Dallas, Jim chastised him severely (along with Cuban pissed-off neighbors); He reminded him that just four days before; he had been a member of our security detail for JFK at MIA (Monday, 18th Nov.), and that he had been prepared to "take-a-bullet" for the President!!"

John,

I too saved this comment from Gerry. Odd how Little Joe was dancing in the street after hearing of JFK's demise, yet 4 days earlier said he would take a bullet for him. Doesn't make much sense does it?

RJS

[John Geraghty]

Hi James.

Here's Hathaway, who provides more detail concerning the rifle, which Lawrence apparently did not see. Also a map to indicate the distance from the Plaza - the area marked in blue roughly corresponds with the detail provided by Hathaway.

VOLUNTARY STATEMENT. Not Under Arrest Form No. 86

SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT

COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS

Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22nd day of November A.D. 1963 personally appeared Philip Ben Hathaway Address 11021 Quail Run, Dallas Age 28 , Phone No. DI 8 6532 DOB: July 9, 1935 DOB: Chicago, Ill. Wks: Lone Star Gas Co, Research & Development Dept. RI 1 5711 Ext 776

Deposes and says:

Just before Noon today, my friend John Stevens Rutter Lawrence, who works with me, and I and two other friends left the Texaco Building where we work going to the parade. We were walking down Commerce up to Main and Main to Akard andwhile [sic] we were walking up Akard towards Main Street we passed a man who was carrying a rifle in a gun case. I saw this man walking towards me, walking towards Commerce, and too particular attention to him because ofhis [sic] size. I am 6'5" and weigh 200 pounds. This man was very tall, approx 6'6" or 6'7" over 250 pounds, very thick and big through the chest, in his 30's, dirty blonde hair worn in a crew cut. Was wearing a grey colored business suit with white dress shirt, fair complexion. I remarked to my friend that there was a guy carrying a gun in all this crowd and made the remark that he was probably a secret service man. I could very easily identify this man if I ever saw him again. The gun case was holding a rifle because I could tell there was a gun in it as it was a combination leather and cloth gun case and without a gun, it would have been limp, but it was heavy and he was carrying it by the handle and the barrell [sic] of the gun was up at a 45 degree angle. It was beige or tan leather and olive drab material.

We can place the time we saw this man walking with the gun as I recall someone in the crowd asking for the time and they said it was 11:50A.M.

/s/ Philip Ben Hathaway

Subscribed and sworn to before me on this the 22nd day of Nov A. D. 1963

/s/ Rosemary Allen

Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

- lee

Anybody else think this description fits the mexico city Oswald?

John

[Ryan Crowe]

Ive always thought Mexico city Oswald was under 6ft and stocky, not approx 6'6" or 6'7" over 250 pounds...

[Trent Adams]

Ive always thought Mexico city Oswald was under 6ft and stocky, not approx 6'6" or 6'7" over 250 pounds...

Agreed.

[Shanet Clark]

Ive always thought Mexico city Oswald was under 6ft and stocky, not approx 6'6" or 6'7" over 250 pounds...

Agreed.

Ron's little photo shows a good match for the man "Hemmings" .......

Both the photos above look more like Hemmings than they do the Orr image ........

[Ron Ecker]

It is worth noting that in the Allen photo the man has what appears to be a folded raincoat slung over his shoulder. He is also wearing a dark suit. The witnesses to the man carrying a rifle didn't mention a raincoat, and one of them described the man's suit as "light colored" (the other "grey colored").