photo alteration by the media

[John Dolva]

I find it impossible to be conclusive about where the right shoe is. Separating out the dark areas.

IF it's where the arrow indicates, there may be a chunky tread perimeter to shoe outline.

EDIT by cross referencing to suggested print, perhaps not so impossible

Edited July 21, 2006 by John Dolva

[John Dolva]

Here a cut out of what may be the shoe is flipped and rotated to match a suggested print on the seat.

The seat pad in question has been placed on a depth map of a pad model and then rotated/tilted to where it approximates the seat pad if seen from above from Clints view point. IOW the upper edge is forward on the limousine.

To my surprise there are matches to such an extent that I'm prepared (sans clearer images) to say it's Clints shoe print.

If so, then the smooth sole is not Clints shoe.

EDIT:: updated image posted

Edited July 21, 2006 by John Dolva

[JL Allen]

I think there has been reference to how short Hill's pants were that day. We've all had on a pair of pants a bit too short for us. When we stand up straight - that's as long as they get. Each and every more extreme bending of the knee brings the cuff higher and higher up our calf. The more the knee bends - the shorter the pants get. In the Yarborough picture in the center - the knee is bent at it's most extreme angle of all of these pictures of short pants - yet, the cuff falls down closest to the shoe of any of these pictures. I don't think it could be possible considering the shortness of the pants in the other photos after much less strenuous and severe leg contortions. I don't know what that triangular shape is - but, using "real world" measurements - it's unlikely that it could be the bottom of his trousers - after a knee-bend like that.

There are many examples of Clint Hill's short trousers. (Photo removed to recover posting space.)

Edited August 14, 2006 by JL Allen

[Pat Speer]

Good eye, JL. I'm now thinking the unthinkable--that the kid (Miller) had it right all along. That it was Kennedy's left shoe! Does anyone have pictures of Kennedy's shoes on 11-22? Perhaps when he was coming down stairs?

[Craig Lamson]

Good eye, JL. I'm now thinking the unthinkable--that the kid (Miller) had it right all along. That it was Kennedy's left shoe! Does anyone have pictures of Kennedy's shoes on 11-22? Perhaps when he was coming down stairs?

You guys crack me up! JFK is dear instantly when his brains get blown out...all the while sitting upright with his feet on the floor. Jackie places hie lifeless head in her lap. SO how did his foot..his LEFT foot go from the floor, spinning his body so his left left leg and foot can leap up and out of the limo? Rigor mortise in 5 blocks?

Sheesh and you question Hills ability to get his foot in the postiion seen in Miller? ROFLMAO!

[Pat Speer]

Good eye, JL. I'm now thinking the unthinkable--that the kid (Miller) had it right all along. That it was Kennedy's left shoe! Does anyone have pictures of Kennedy's shoes on 11-22? Perhaps when he was coming down stairs?

You guys crack me up! JFK is dear instantly when his brains get blown out...all the while sitting upright with his feet on the floor. Jackie places hie lifeless head in her lap. SO how did his foot..his LEFT foot go from the floor, spinning his body so his left left leg and foot can leap up and out of the limo? Rigor mortise in 5 blocks?

Sheesh and you question Hills ability to get his foot in the postiion seen in Miller? ROFLMAO!

That's the point, oh he who likes to mock... I was once sure it was not Kennedy's foot. But it also makes little sense for it to be Hill's foot (assuming it's a foot). Therefore, considering that Miller was right there watching the car pass by, and said it was Kennedy's LEFT foot, the possibility now exists in my mind that Miller knew what he was talking about. PERHAPS, Mr. Mocker, the kid SAW Hill climb into this position, and KNEW that the foot was in this position before Hill made his move. Perhaps he got a better angle as the car passed, and could tell the shoe was a left shoe...

It is a fact that neither Hill nor Jackie told us everything that went on in that back seat. It's possible Kennedy's body jerked about a bit in its death throws, and that they felt the nation should be spared these gory details.

[Craig Lamson]

Good eye, JL. I'm now thinking the unthinkable--that the kid (Miller) had it right all along. That it was Kennedy's left shoe! Does anyone have pictures of Kennedy's shoes on 11-22? Perhaps when he was coming down stairs?

You guys crack me up! JFK is dear instantly when his brains get blown out...all the while sitting upright with his feet on the floor. Jackie places hie lifeless head in her lap. SO how did his foot..his LEFT foot go from the floor, spinning his body so his left left leg and foot can leap up and out of the limo? Rigor mortise in 5 blocks?

Sheesh and you question Hills ability to get his foot in the postiion seen in Miller? ROFLMAO!

That's the point, oh he who likes to mock... I was once sure it was not Kennedy's foot. But it also makes little sense for it to be Hill's foot (assuming it's a foot). Therefore, considering that Miller was right there watching the car pass by, and said it was Kennedy's LEFT foot, the possibility now exists in my mind that Miller knew what he was talking about. PERHAPS, Mr. Mocker, the kid SAW Hill climb into this position, and KNEW that the foot was in this position before Hill made his move. Perhaps he got a better angle as the car passed, and could tell the shoe was a left shoe...

It is a fact that neither Hill nor Jackie told us everything that went on in that back seat. It's possible Kennedy's body jerked about a bit in its death throws, and that they felt the nation should be spared these gory details.

No it makes perfect sense, oh he who is missing his clue, for it to be Hills foot.

But hey with the quality of the "research" and the skill level of the actors in this thread, what else should we expect. Maybe the next page of this thread will give us Greers foot, missing from the brake pedal....

Edited July 21, 2006 by Craig Lamson

[JL Allen]

Pat,

You could be right. The official story was always that JFK had only received small "bullet-hole" wounds - and that he "slumped" forwards. There is plenty of visual evidence to indicate that he was absolutely slaughtered - his head blown apart - driven sideways by the force of a high-powered rifle from close range. They certainly wouldn't have wanted any pictures in existence which portrayed that kind of devastation and reminded people of those possibilities. The Miller and Yarborough pictures are very much skewed from one another. Although the top edge of the window frames remain the same - and, the limousine remains the same - all of the side edges of the window frames in between them in the center of the picture go off in different directions - independently of one another. What sorts of "darkroom gremblins" can innocently cause this kind of manipulation and distortion? There must have been some subtle adjustments necessary to make it look like the foot belonged to Hill. They couldn't just alter Hill (although they sure did mess with that boot!) so, they altered what was behind him - imperceptably. I think this was "reworked" to keep the lid on the official ruse.

[Pat Speer]

Pat,

You could be right. The official story was always that JFK had only received small "bullet-hole" wounds - and that he "slumped" forwards. There is plenty of visual evidence to indicate that he was absolutely slaughtered - his head blown apart - driven sideways by the force of a high-powered rifle from close range. They certainly wouldn't have wanted any pictures in existence which portrayed that kind of devastation and reminded people of those possibilities. The Miller and Yarborough pictures are very much skewed from one another. Although the top edge of the window frames remain the same - and, the limousine remains the same - all of the side edges of the window frames in between them in the center of the picture go off in different directions - independently of one another. What sorts of "darkroom gremblins" can innocently cause this kind of manipulation and distortion? There must have been some subtle adjustments necessary to make it look like the foot belonged to Hill. They couldn't just alter Hill (although they sure did mess with that boot!) so, they altered what was behind him - imperceptably. I think this was "reworked" to keep the lid on the official ruse.

Whatever alteration was done to the Miller photo, IMO, was to make it look more like a foot. The Dallas Morning News said it was Kennedy's left foot. Most other papers and magazines just said it was Kennedy's foot. Later some sources started saying it was Kennedy's right foot, and then, ultimately, it was Hill's right foot. I think some of the distortions you noticed were created by people changing images without keeping the ratios constant. The other day I scanned in four or five different versions of the photo, and they were pretty much identical in shape. There were two major additions...the drawn in foot over what might actually be a foot, and a semi-circle line over the Connallys to make their shape more apparent.

By the way, I finally got a look at the 11-29 issue of Time. They used the photo with the drawn-in foot. They also reported that the impact of the FIRST shot on Kennedy's head made his leg fly up in the air and his foot land on the edge of the car. They were not trying to spare anyone's feelings. That seems clear.

Edited July 22, 2006 by Pat Speer

[John Dolva]

Here a cut out of what may be the shoe is flipped and rotated to match a suggested print on the seat.

The seat pad in question has been placed on a depth map of a pad model and then rotated/tilted to where it approximates the seat pad if seen from above from Clints view point. IOW the upper edge is forward on the limousine.

To my surprise there are matches to such an extent that I'm prepared (sans clearer images) to say it's Clints shoe print.

If so, then the smooth sole is not Clints shoe.

The question remains to determine what it is.

Continuing with the blood on the seat (a photo, pref color, of Jackies right rear isneeded) by looking at the next pad along.

There is outline of blood pooling around what may be Kennedy's left shoulder depressing the pad.

In front of the seat and on the floor there is a major flow. This is probably where Jackies weight was centered. She was at times perched on the edge of the seat.

If this is Kennedy's left shoulder / arm outline, it may be possible to say whether or not it is Kennedy's shoe.

[Robin Unger]

Kennedy fell to his left.

When he was lying on Jackies lap, was he still lying on his side, his back, or was he lying on his stomach.

Did Clint Hill throw his coat over Kennedy to cover his FACE, or was it to cover the back of his head.

If kennedy was lying face first on the back seat, it is quite easy to position the leg as seen in the Miller photo, they just needed to bend his left leg at the knee.

[JL Allen]

"They also reported that the impact of the FIRST shot on Kennedy's head made his leg fly up in the air and his foot land on the edge of the car."

That's very strange. They wouldn't make something up or wildly misreport without checking in such a monumental news event - yet, nothing like that ever happens in the Zapruder film.

[Craig Lamson]

"They also reported that the impact of the FIRST shot on Kennedy's head made his leg fly up in the air and his foot land on the edge of the car."

That's very strange. They wouldn't make something up or wildly misreport without checking in such a monumental news event - yet, nothing like that ever happens in the Zapruder film.

ROFLMAO!

[John Dolva]

A lot of stuff belongs in the chinese whisper compartment. Bits of second hand reality, less scrupulous news organs do misreport.

______

If one looks at the second pad there is a second outline matching the first left arm imprint. Perhaps a convulsion that placed the leg up also xxxxfted the body?

EDIT:: reply to below:: Thank you, Craig. The wonderful thing is that anyone can check it. There is no need whatsoever to take my word for it.

EDIT2:: very unlikely, the imprint wouldn't dry that quickly. The surround of the first shoulder outline is probably where his shoulder was throughout the trip to the hospital. There are numerous streaks leading from the area where the body was that probably belong to when they moved him at the hospital.

At this point I doubt it's Kennedy's foot. Ultimately it will come down to a look at the negative. If that turns out to be Clints shoe, then I'll go back and read the history of the photos.

One way or the other the whole process has been most instructive.

As a threshold of what images can be used at all to produce conclusive evidence of anything, it would worry me somewhat.

Edited July 22, 2006 by John Dolva

[Craig Lamson]

Here a cut out of what may be the shoe is flipped and rotated to match a suggested print on the seat.

The seat pad in question has been placed on a depth map of a pad model and then rotated/tilted to where it approximates the seat pad if seen from above from Clints view point. IOW the upper edge is forward on the limousine.

To my surprise there are matches to such an extent that I'm prepared (sans clearer images) to say it's Clints shoe print.

If so, then the smooth sole is not Clints shoe.

The question remains to determine what it is.

Continuing with the blood on the seat (a photo, pref color, of Jackies right rear isneeded) by looking at the next pad along.

There is outline of blood pooling around what may be Kennedy's left shoulder depressing the pad.

In front of the seat and on the floor there is a major flow. This is probably where Jackies weight was centered. She was at times perched on the edge of the seat.

If this is Kennedy's left shoulder / arm outline, it may be possible to say whether or not it is Kennedy's shoe.

Un fricking believeable.

Texture on the sole of Hills foot from a how many generational image, scanned how many times, jpg saved how many times? What is digital noise, what is first generation grain for the grainy 35mm film, wha tis grain from the second or third generation copy? Is it froma halftone altered with screen removal? We know how much jpg compression artifacts ahve destroyed the image by just locking at it. Is ther eeven the resloution avbailabe from the original negative to RECORD the detail you seem to think you have found?

Never mind you are trying to pull detail from an area of a photographic print that is near or at the lower threshold of exposure.

You can find sole texture in the blackest of black on a really crappy photo yet you are unable to see something as simple a how chrome reflects...shessh.

This is not research, its a circus!

You are making Jack White look sane with your sillyness John!

Welcome to the CT wonderland circus!

Pat,

You could be right. The official story was always that JFK had only received small "bullet-hole" wounds - and that he "slumped" forwards. There is plenty of visual evidence to indicate that he was absolutely slaughtered - his head blown apart - driven sideways by the force of a high-powered rifle from close range. They certainly wouldn't have wanted any pictures in existence which portrayed that kind of devastation and reminded people of those possibilities. The Miller and Yarborough pictures are very much skewed from one another. Although the top edge of the window frames remain the same - and, the limousine remains the same - all of the side edges of the window frames in between them in the center of the picture go off in different directions - independently of one another. What sorts of "darkroom gremblins" can innocently cause this kind of manipulation and distortion? There must have been some subtle adjustments necessary to make it look like the foot belonged to Hill. They couldn't just alter Hill (although they sure did mess with that boot!) so, they altered what was behind him - imperceptably. I think this was "reworked" to keep the lid on the official ruse.

Another actor steps into the center ring!

What sort of darkroom gremblins? How about NONE. The images in the Warren Commision report appear to be news clippings.

How do you make copies of news clipping distort? Simple copy them without placing them under glass to make them lie flat.

Oh wait that would be too simple, not sexy enough, no secret plot to make Hills foot. well, look like Hills foot.

That would never do for this circus.....

Edited July 22, 2006 by Craig Lamson