Brace, Shirt, Blood and Bullet-hole

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Thank you Tom, that's fine with me. The information provided will a path to follow. Is the front shirt photo in color? The reason is to use as a color reference. Also I'd like to make some precise measurements of the stripes and their separation to confirm scaling etc in order to buttress the findings re the stains (I should say alleged stainfindings at this point, as I have no confirmation beyond my own observations, and theres no reason to base conclusions on just one persons observations. On the other hand, should it be confirmed then it seems reasonable that one must live with the implications)

The front photo of the shirt is in black and white, and I therefore assume that the rear photo is most probably black and white also as they were all ordered & received at the same time.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

GRAY"S ANATOMY drawings for comparison with the autopsy back entry wound.

"A"------Normal wrinkle line location of the neck

"B"-----Intersection point between the plane of the Sterno-Cleido-mastoideus of the neck and the Trapezius muscles of the back/shoulder/back of the neck.

"C"----Top level of Acromion Process which runs virtually level with the top/upper/superior portion of the Scapula, all of which is approximately parallel to the T1 vertebrae.

[Antti Hynonen]

Thanks Cliff. Sounds reasonable.

[John Dolva]

bump

[Todd W. Vaughan]

I am baffled by John's placement of the shirt. He has it much too high.

Jack

Looks to me that he has it too hight and you have it too low.

[Bernice Moore]

deleted double..

Edited March 26, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Bernice Moore]

read dr.carrico's testimony...http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/carrico1.htm

Edited March 26, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[John Dolva]

the part image of the shirt inteneded to be used to try to answer the question posed in this thread is in full size here

http://files.photojerk.com/yanndee/jfkshirt.png

so those who want to can check

it's an enhanced and much enlarged portion of a copy of an image from the web. The best I could find, which is not all that good, but I think sufficient for this purpose. A better copy that will clearly show the pinstripes no doubt exist. If anyone has a very good copy of the shirt please post a link or email yanndee@yahoo.co.uk.

the bullet hole has been slghtly enlarged so it can be located/layered on top of the back for easy centering

good copies of the standard back autopsy photos are readily available from Lancer.

John;

It would appear that with your "stain transfer" work, you have entered completely new and untouched ground in demonstration of the blood stains of the shirt and the seen blood stains on the back of JFK.

Kind of demonstrates that the "experts" in these fields may have something to learn.

Thanks,

Tom

Even better would be for someone to replicate independently the study and present results. It was bloody hard to keep this thread on track. I was coming at it with no preconceptions using software and imagery available then with people trying to pull me this way and that way. I don't think anyone here is up to speed on commenting on what the results of such a study shows.

[John Dolva]

It is almost like there is an unwillingness to replicate this study out of a concern of what may be found.

Blood, when exposed to the atmosphere doesn't immediatelly die. It has a couple of significant properties. Binding, Coagulating and Bonding. Knowing this one can locate various portions of the shirt and the brace on the skin of a person whose organs were dead or dying. It leaves an impression. Blood obeys the law of gravity and the constraints under which it flows. The blood stained shirt and the skin tells a story.

[Robin Unger]

It is almost like there is an unwillingness to replicate this study out of a concern of what may be found.

Blood, when exposed to the atmosphere doesn't immediatelly die. It has a couple of significant properties. Binding, Coagulating and Bonding. Knowing this one can locate various portions of the shirt and the brace on the skin of a person whose organs were dead or dying. It leaves an impression. Blood obeys the law of gravity and the constraints under which it flows. The blood stained shirt and the skin tells a story.

Credit: Lancer Forum

John.

Look at the "Wrinkly" skin down near the bottom of the ruler, this appears to me, to be the top edge of the brace / Ace bandage

Edited March 27, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

It is almost like there is an unwillingness to replicate this study out of a concern of what may be found.

Blood, when exposed to the atmosphere doesn't immediatelly die. It has a couple of significant properties. Binding, Coagulating and Bonding. Knowing this one can locate various portions of the shirt and the brace on the skin of a person whose organs were dead or dying. It leaves an impression. Blood obeys the law of gravity and the constraints under which it flows. The blood stained shirt and the skin tells a story.

Credit: Lancer Forum

John.

Look at the "Wrinkly" skin down near the bottom of the ruler, this appears to me, to be the top edge of the brace / Ace bandage

Note that the area below the yellow line appears clean and almost blood free when compared to the area above the yellow line.

I beleive that is because this area was covered by the brace & bandage.

Just above the yellow line there appears to be a blood band across the back as though the blood had coagulated around the leading edge of the bandage.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Robin Unger

[John Dolva]

Yes, like that Robin, there's a definite change around there.

With enhancing, blood can be discerned as well, showing flow whem sitting up, to when lying on side. The blood being guided by the tight brace and its windings. and soaked up by it and the shirt (and coat).

I think about the brace windings sometimes as having been so soaked that they might have been routinely cleaned or they might have been had to be carried in a sealed box.

[John Dolva]

Another thing I kept having to accommodate for is the binding or knitting quality of blood exposed to air.

The blood soaked shirt weave contracts the shirt as a consequence. This, and smoothing out creases, has to be taken into account when placing the shirt on the back to match blood stains.

The place where the trouser belt was is also discernible.

edit:edit

Edited March 30, 2010 by John Dolva

[John Dolva]

the part image of the shirt inteneded to be used to try to answer the question posed in this thread is in full size here

http://files.photoje...ee/jfkshirt.png

so those who want to can check

it's an enhanced and much enlarged portion of a copy of an image from the web. The best I could find, which is not all that good, but I think sufficient for this purpose. A better copy that will clearly show the pinstripes no doubt exist. If anyone has a very good copy of the shirt please post a link or email yanndee@yahoo.co.uk.

the bullet hole has been slghtly enlarged so it can be located/layered on top of the back for easy centering

good copies of the standard back autopsy photos are readily available from Lancer.

John;

It would appear that with your "stain transfer" work, you have entered completely new and untouched ground in demonstration of the blood stains of the shirt and the seen blood stains on the back of JFK.

Kind of demonstrates that the "experts" in these fields may have something to learn.

Thanks,

Tom

Even better would be for someone to replicate independently the study and present results. It was bloody hard to keep this thread on track. I was coming at it with no preconceptions using software and imagery available then with people trying to pull me this way and that way. I don't think anyone here is up to speed on commenting on what the results of such a study shows.