ID?

[John Dolva]

anyone know who this is?

[J. William King]

anyone know who this is?

Since she seems to be talking to Abraham Zapruder, a wild guess on my part would be Marilyn Sitzman.

JWK

[Ashton Gray]

anyone know who this is?

Since she seems to be talking to Abraham Zapruder, a wild guess on my part would be Marilyn Sitzman.

JWK

If this is post-mortem, I hope that isn't Zapruder standing around casually with his hands in his pockets:

• Mr. ZAPRUDER. I heard the second--after the first shot--I saw him leaning over and after the second shot--it's possible after what I saw, you know, then I started yelling, "They killed him, they killed him," and I just felt that somebody had ganged up on him and I was still shooting the pictures until he got under the underpass--I don't even know how I did it. And then, I didn't even remember how I got down from that abutment there, but there I was, I guess, and I was walking toward--back toward my office and screaming, "They killed him, they killed him," and the people that I met on the way didn't even know what happened and they kept yelling, "What happened, what happened, what happened?" It seemed that they had heard a shot but they didn't know exactly what had happened as the car sped away, and I kept on just yelling, "They killed him, they killed him, they killed him," and finally got to my office and my secretary--I told her to call the police or the Secret Service--I don't know what she was doing, and that's about all. I was very much upset.
  

Ashton

[John Dolva]

[i'll come clean in order to dampen possible disputation. I'm looking for Harry. He went walkabout 'post mortem' (thank you Ashton).

The left photo here is Harry D. Holmes.(different ages)

The right, according to Harry photo source, is a maybe. Other private comment is 'likely'. I think: possible:::looking to see if the womans name is known, she may have said something that will help identify the man. Sitzamn is an interesting suggestion. She did say she talked to an FBI person, Harry was an FBI informant, and may have allowed others to think he was FBI. Quite possibly because his close relationship to the local FBI, they considered him an 'agent'. Who knows he may even have had some such status. I know the lack of black scarf etc is an issue. People do carry change so that's not conclusive. Because of the quality of facial features, someone who has spoken to Sitzman sould readily be able to say.

One way or the other who is she? and who is he?

EDIT:: see below post. That looks like a good match William. He hardly seems agitated.

Edited August 9, 2006 by John Dolva

[J. William King]

anyone know who this is?

Since she seems to be talking to Abraham Zapruder, a wild guess on my part would be Marilyn Sitzman.

JWK

If this is post-mortem, I hope that isn't Zapruder standing around casually with his hands in his pockets:

• Mr. ZAPRUDER. I heard the second--after the first shot--I saw him leaning over and after the second shot--it's possible after what I saw, you know, then I started yelling, "They killed him, they killed him," and I just felt that somebody had ganged up on him and I was still shooting the pictures until he got under the underpass--I don't even know how I did it. And then, I didn't even remember how I got down from that abutment there, but there I was, I guess, and I was walking toward--back toward my office and screaming, "They killed him, they killed him," and the people that I met on the way didn't even know what happened and they kept yelling, "What happened, what happened, what happened?" It seemed that they had heard a shot but they didn't know exactly what had happened as the car sped away, and I kept on just yelling, "They killed him, they killed him, they killed him," and finally got to my office and my secretary--I told her to call the police or the Secret Service--I don't know what she was doing, and that's about all. I was very much upset.
  

Ashton

I always wondered what happened to Abe after the shooting. Looking at some of the photos (Bond and others) of the plaza directly after the shooting, it seems that Abe vanishes pretty quick from his perch.

Anyway, I had always assumed that it was Zapruder in the photo in question (they're both wearing bowties), and maybe Sitzman was holding the movie camera.

JWK

Edited August 9, 2006 by J. William King

[Jack White]

anyone know who this is?

Since she seems to be talking to Abraham Zapruder, a wild guess on my part would be Marilyn Sitzman.

JWK

If this is post-mortem, I hope that isn't Zapruder standing around casually with his hands in his pockets:

• Mr. ZAPRUDER. I heard the second--after the first shot--I saw him leaning over and after the second shot--it's possible after what I saw, you know, then I started yelling, "They killed him, they killed him," and I just felt that somebody had ganged up on him and I was still shooting the pictures until he got under the underpass--I don't even know how I did it. And then, I didn't even remember how I got down from that abutment there, but there I was, I guess, and I was walking toward--back toward my office and screaming, "They killed him, they killed him," and the people that I met on the way didn't even know what happened and they kept yelling, "What happened, what happened, what happened?" It seemed that they had heard a shot but they didn't know exactly what had happened as the car sped away, and I kept on just yelling, "They killed him, they killed him, they killed him," and finally got to my office and my secretary--I told her to call the police or the Secret Service--I don't know what she was doing, and that's about all. I was very much upset.
  

Ashton

I always wondered what happened to Abe after the shooting. Looking at some of the photos (Bond and others) of the plaza directly after the shooting, it seems that Abe vanishes pretty quick from his perch.

Anyway, I had always assumed that it was Zapruder in the photo in question (they're both wearing bowties), and maybe Sitzman was holding the movie camera.

JWK

Interesting, but too much hair.

Jack

[J. William King]

Point taken, Jack. I noticed the difference in hair also, but the difference between natural sunlight and bright studio lights could make it appear he has more/less hair. How many others in the plaza that day were wearing bowties and had AZ's general features?

JWK

[Bill Miller]

I always wondered what happened to Abe after the shooting. Looking at some of the photos (Bond and others) of the plaza directly after the shooting, it seems that Abe vanishes pretty quick from his perch.

Anyway, I had always assumed that it was Zapruder in the photo in question (they're both wearing bowties), and maybe Sitzman was holding the movie camera.

JWK

Zapruder went into the shelter where he met with Charles Hester, then Marilyn and Beatrice Hester who worked for Abe. The man is not Zapruder and that man can be seen in serveral post assassination photos.

[David G. Healy]

'Bill Miller' wrote below:

Zapruder went into the shelter where he met with Charles Hester, then Marilyn and Beatrice Hester who worked for Abe. The man is not Zapruder and that man can be seen in serveral post assassination photos.

Curious, is there WC testimony to support he; "...went into the shelter where..." ?

[Bill Miller]

Curious, is there WC testimony to support he; "...went into the shelter where..." ?

David, let me ask you a question ... Was Zapruder asked by the Commission if he went into the shelter? It seems to me that for many of these assassination witnesses to have said specific details that they would have had to of been asked the specific questions. As has been posted many times now - Trask's has a good lightened print of Art Rickerby's photo showing Abe's face quite well as he is standing in the shelter with Sitzman and the Hesters. Of course we don't have the camera original of Rickerby's photo so to prove it wasn't altered to look like Zapruder was inside the shelter, so we'll just say that the photographical record as it is ... supports by earlier statement.

As far as the guy in the earlier photo, unless Zapruder had gotten a haircut before giving his filmed interview - they are not the same person. The sides of Zapruder's head was bald above the ears to the top of his head and all the way back to the rear portion of the skull. The man in the photo as seen in profile shows thick hair above the ears all the way to the top of his head.

Bill Miller

[David G. Healy]

'Bill Miller' wrote:

Curious, is there WC testimony to support he; "...went into the shelter where..." ?

David, let me ask you a question ... Was Zapruder asked by the Commission if he went into the shelter? It seems to me that for many of these assassination witnesses to have said specific details that they would have had to of been asked the specific questions. As has been posted many times now - Trask's has a good lightened print of Art Rickerby's photo showing Abe's face quite well as he is standing in the shelter with Sitzman and the Hesters. Of course we don't have the camera original of Rickerby's photo so to prove it wasn't altered to look like Zapruder was inside the shelter, so we'll just say that the photographical record as it is ... supports by earlier statement.

dgh: its okay to say, you don't know if the commission asked Zapruder that question. Did ANYONE ask Zapruder the question?

There's a guy who looks strangely like Zapruder, chatting it up in Dealey Plaza immediately after the assassination, within 30 yeards of the "shelter". Pretty sure we can ID THIS guy, though...Are you sure thats Zapruder in the Ricklerby photo?

As far as the guy in the earlier photo, unless Zapruder had gotten a haircut before giving his filmed interview - they are not the same person. The sides of Zapruder's head was bald above the ears to the top of his head and all the way back to the rear portion of the skull. The man in the photo as seen in profile shows thick hair above the ears all the way to the top of his head.

dgh: lets see them side-by-side in this thread. Let the lurkers make up their minds

Bill Miller

Edited August 9, 2006 by David G. Healy

[Bill Miller]

dgh: its okay to say, you don't know if the commission asked Zapruder that question. Did ANYONE ask Zapruder the question?

There's a guy who looks strangely like Zapruder, chatting it up in Dealey Plaza immediately after the assassination, within 30 yeards of the "shelter". Pretty sure we can ID THIS guy, though...Are you sure thats Zapruder in the Ricklerby photo?

David, I can go read Zapruder's testimony for you, but why should I when you are surely capable of reading it yourself.

And who would think that out of the hundreds of people in Dealey Plaza at the time of the assassination that there would be more than one older balding man. Now that is truly suspicious!

dgh: lets see them side-by-side in this thread. Let the lurkers make up their minds

I am thinking that if one needs a side by side comparison to see some of the obvious differences between the two balding men ..... that holding the camera originals in your hands will be of no help.

BTW, if the balding men look alike, then the mystery woman must be Amelia Earhart.

Bill Miller

Edited August 10, 2006 by Bill Miller

[David G. Healy]

To my eye, while the hairlines do seem somewhat different they also seem to possibly be the same person. The glasses mean nothing, as one can have several pair or get new ones. The shape of the head, chin, cheek and many other features are quite similar IMO. The angles of the head on two axes are different which could explain part of the difference in hair. I am NOT saying they are definitely the same person, but does anyone know where else AZ was at the time of that photo - or who the woman is? Also, how long after events was the TV interview...?..he could have lost more hair and gotten a bit more grey over the ears from all the stress if there were some months or years between.

There certainly was a guy in Dallas that looked a lot like AZapruder, might of had something to do with the Kennedy, wanted for Treason nonsense. He and his picture was under discussion a few months back on one of the JFK boards or newsgroups. Can't remember which. This is the first picture I've seen of anyone that looked like Zapruder in Dealey Plaza, Nov '63. If thats the case, I''m not surprised he appeared in Dealey Plaza during the assassination, plenty of other look-alike characters made the scene that day....

dgh: its okay to say, you don't know if the commission asked Zapruder that question. Did ANYONE ask Zapruder the question?

There's a guy who looks strangely like Zapruder, chatting it up in Dealey Plaza immediately after the assassination, within 30 yeards of the "shelter". Pretty sure we can ID THIS guy, though...Are you sure thats Zapruder in the Ricklerby photo?

David, I can go read Zapruder's testimony for you, but why should I when you are surely capable of reading it yourself.

And who would think that out of the hundreds of people in Dealey Plaza at the time of the assassination that there would be more than one older balding man. Now that is truly suspicious!

dgh: lets see them side-by-side in this thread. Let the lurkers make up their minds

I am thinking that if one needs a side by side comparison to see some of the obvious differences between the two balding men ..... that holding the camera originals in your hands will be of no help.

BTW, if the balding men look alike, then the mystery woman must be Amelia Earhart.

Bill Miller

I was thinking along the lines of the Trask photo [YOU spoke of in this thread. You know, the one of Zapruder in the alcove immediately after the assassination. See if your comparison holds UP Take a walk on the wild side, I see James Gordon floating around -- he'll approve.

Edited August 10, 2006 by David G. Healy

[Antti Hynonen]

Honest opinion from non-expert=> not the same guy.

By the way did Abe smoke? The guy in the street has a stogie in his mouth, seems to be a pretty cool cat, if he's Abe and just witnessed the President being assassinated.

Edited August 10, 2006 by Antti Hynonen

[Bill Miller]

To my eye, while the hairlines do seem somewhat different they also seem to possibly be the same person. The glasses mean nothing, as one can have several pair or get new ones. The shape of the head, chin, cheek and many other features are quite similar IMO. The angles of the head on two axes are different which could explain part of the difference in hair. I am NOT saying they are definitely the same person, but does anyone know where else AZ was at the time of that photo - or who the woman is? Also, how long after events was the TV interview...?..he could have lost more hair and gotten a bit more grey over the ears from all the stress if there were some months or years between.

Peter, I can now see why you get so caught up in the erred alteration claims. To start with - the interview of Zapruder was done the afternoon of the assassination. This means that unless Zapruder must have gotten a hair cut immediately following the shooting ... which hardly seems reasonable. You may also note that Zapruder's head was shaved from about midear forward. The other man's hair extends forward of the ear by several inches, thus neither man resembles the other with the exception that they both wore bow ties.

Edited August 10, 2006 by Bill Miller