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I read the following, which is an unpublished manuscript

written by the late Roger Craig:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/WTKaP.html

In it Roger Craig mentions that Jim Garrison showed him a picture of a man who was in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd 1963 at the time of the assassination. Craig says he identified the man as the same man who drove the Rambler station wagon, which he claims Lee jumped into.

Quote from the article refrenced above:

" I had several meetings with Jim Garrison. He showed me numerous pictures taken in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963. Among them was a picture of a Latin male. I recognized him as being the same man I had seen driving the Rambler station wagon in which I had seen Oswald leave the Book Depository area. I was surprised and I asked Jim who the man was. Jim did not know but he did say this man was arrested in Dealey Plaza immediately after the assassination but was released by Dallas Police because he could not speak English! This was, to me, highly unusual. In my experience as a police officer I had never known of a person (or prisoner) being released because of a language barrier. Interpreters were, of course, always available."

Does anyone know who this latin man is that Craig identified? Does anyone have any other interesting comments relating to R. Craig?

Thanks.

Antti

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  • 4 years later...
I read the following, which is an unpublished manuscript

written by the late Roger Craig:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/WTKaP.html

In it Roger Craig mentions that Jim Garrison showed him a picture of a man who was in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd 1963 at the time of the assassination. Craig says he identified the man as the same man who drove the Rambler station wagon, which he claims Lee jumped into.

Quote from the article refrenced above:

" I had several meetings with Jim Garrison. He showed me numerous pictures taken in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963. Among them was a picture of a Latin male. I recognized him as being the same man I had seen driving the Rambler station wagon in which I had seen Oswald leave the Book Depository area. I was surprised and I asked Jim who the man was. Jim did not know but he did say this man was arrested in Dealey Plaza immediately after the assassination but was released by Dallas Police because he could not speak English! This was, to me, highly unusual. In my experience as a police officer I had never known of a person (or prisoner) being released because of a language barrier. Interpreters were, of course, always available."

Does anyone know who this latin man is that Craig identified? Does anyone have any other interesting comments relating to R. Craig?

Thanks.

Antti

R. Bartholomew wrote in his 1994 update, to his Fair Play- Article

"In any event, the important thing here is that we can now track down that photo Garrison showed to Craig and see if the Latin man is Eladio del Valle. That is who Cuban Intelligence identified as the Rambler driver based on witness descriptions (see Claudia Furiati's recent book, ZR Rifle, Ocean Press, 1994, p. 130). "

del Valle was murdered the day Ferrie died. They were friends. Maybe LHO, who knew Ferrie knew del Valle. Therfore he knew the driver of the Rambler.

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I read the following, which is an unpublished manuscript

written by the late Roger Craig:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/WTKaP.html

In it Roger Craig mentions that Jim Garrison showed him a picture of a man who was in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd 1963 at the time of the assassination. Craig says he identified the man as the same man who drove the Rambler station wagon, which he claims Lee jumped into.

Quote from the article refrenced above:

" I had several meetings with Jim Garrison. He showed me numerous pictures taken in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963. Among them was a picture of a Latin male. I recognized him as being the same man I had seen driving the Rambler station wagon in which I had seen Oswald leave the Book Depository area. I was surprised and I asked Jim who the man was. Jim did not know but he did say this man was arrested in Dealey Plaza immediately after the assassination but was released by Dallas Police because he could not speak English! This was, to me, highly unusual. In my experience as a police officer I had never known of a person (or prisoner) being released because of a language barrier. Interpreters were, of course, always available."

Does anyone know who this latin man is that Craig identified? Does anyone have any other interesting comments relating to R. Craig?

Thanks.

Antti

R. Bartholomew wrote in his 1994 update, to his Fair Play- Article

"In any event, the important thing here is that we can now track down that photo Garrison showed to Craig and see if the Latin man is Eladio del Valle. That is who Cuban Intelligence identified as the Rambler driver based on witness descriptions (see Claudia Furiati's recent book, ZR Rifle, Ocean Press, 1994, p. 130). "

del Valle was murdered the day Ferrie died. They were friends. Maybe LHO, who knew Ferrie knew del Valle. Therfore he knew the driver of the Rambler.

Later Richard would come to believe that it may have been Mac Wallace. But of course he spoke English.

Dawn

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I read the following, which is an unpublished manuscript

written by the late Roger Craig:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/WTKaP.html

In it Roger Craig mentions that Jim Garrison showed him a picture of a man who was in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd 1963 at the time of the assassination. Craig says he identified the man as the same man who drove the Rambler station wagon, which he claims Lee jumped into.

Quote from the article refrenced above:

" I had several meetings with Jim Garrison. He showed me numerous pictures taken in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963. Among them was a picture of a Latin male. I recognized him as being the same man I had seen driving the Rambler station wagon in which I had seen Oswald leave the Book Depository area. I was surprised and I asked Jim who the man was. Jim did not know but he did say this man was arrested in Dealey Plaza immediately after the assassination but was released by Dallas Police because he could not speak English! This was, to me, highly unusual. In my experience as a police officer I had never known of a person (or prisoner) being released because of a language barrier. Interpreters were, of course, always available."

Does anyone know who this latin man is that Craig identified? Does anyone have any other interesting comments relating to R. Craig?

Thanks.

Antti

Speculation says this man - who allegedly screamed something in Spanish during the motorcade, but was released. Not sure if this is the same photo that was shown to Craig - not sure if Craig had the right guy either.

- lee

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Lee,

It has been suggested by a contact of mine that the guy in the photo you posted is Ibrahen Macin aka Ibrahen Rodriguez Hernandez. This guy was connected to the MIRR.

FWIW.

James

Thanks James - no hits anywhere on that name - but also, not able to find any kind of a registered list of members [no surprise there].

This Gaeton Fonzi HSCA report is interesting.

http://cuban-exile.com/doc_051-075/doc0059.html

(329) The activities of the MIRR in the early 1960's were carried out by a small group of individuals. There were reportedly never a great deal of members in Miami. (14) In 1966, Bosch claimed to have only 20 men outside Miami, located in various seaport cities in the United States (15) One

(332) Bosch maintained an ongoing relationship, beginning in late 1960, with Frank Sturgis, well- known anti-Castro soldier of fortune; (23) Alexander Rorke, former clerk at the FBI; (24) and William Johnson, an American pilot who, along with Sturgis, provided information to the CIA on Cuban exile activities. (25) Johnson had full control over all MIRR operations. (26) Bosch was concerned with financing raids against Cuba and did not know the nature of the missions until their completion. (27)

Never heard of William Johnson before...

From Weberman's Nodules...

STURGIS said that he was at home on November 22, 1963, watching T.V. and, at the same time, at work that day. He was asked: "Do you remember what you were doing for a living at the time of the assassination, what your job was or how you earned your living?" He responded: "That's quite a long spell. I would have to really wrack my mind to find out at that particular time what I was doing. Right at the present time, I don't know; but I could, you know, through records and so forth...I could look through them and tell you what I was doing that particular time...[i was] at home that day and did leave the house." STURGIS was asked:

Q. Are there any other witnesses besides your immediate relatives and Geraldine Shamma, to verify your whereabouts on November 22, 1963?

A. Yes.

Q. Who are they?

A. William Johnson, we call him Bill Johnson.

Q. Where is he?

A. He lives here in San Souci Estates in Miami, Dade County.

Q. Do you know anybody else?

A. His telephone number is 305-893-6013. Jim Buchanan, as a matter of fact, I believe Jim Buchanan came to my house on that date of November 22, 1963, him and I went off the day of the Kennedy assassination.

Q. Anybody else you remember?

A. Geraldine Shamma, Jim Buchanan, William Johnson, my nephew, Jim Hunt.

Q. What did you tell the Rockefeller Commission?

A. The same thing.

Q. But the Rockefeller Commission said your witnesses were only close relatives.

A. I'm sorry, you're right. I glad you brought that up because just recently, because of all the publicity, people did contact me and tell me, "Hey, you remember this, this, this? If you need any help, fine." Well, I told Fonzi and Fonzi supposedly , I'm not sure whether he had already been in touch with these people or not, but he is aware of these people I came across. So I turned it over - -

ANALYSIS

STURGIS said he had seen William Johnson and Geraldine Shamma that day but he was unable to recall the identity of any impartial witnesses. In June 1993 William Johnson was asked whether or not he was with STURGIS that day: "I was not there, no sir. I was not there."

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I read the following, which is an unpublished manuscript

written by the late Roger Craig:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/WTKaP.html

In it Roger Craig mentions that Jim Garrison showed him a picture of a man who was in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd 1963 at the time of the assassination. Craig says he identified the man as the same man who drove the Rambler station wagon, which he claims Lee jumped into.

Quote from the article refrenced above:

" I had several meetings with Jim Garrison. He showed me numerous pictures taken in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963. Among them was a picture of a Latin male. I recognized him as being the same man I had seen driving the Rambler station wagon in which I had seen Oswald leave the Book Depository area. I was surprised and I asked Jim who the man was. Jim did not know but he did say this man was arrested in Dealey Plaza immediately after the assassination but was released by Dallas Police because he could not speak English! This was, to me, highly unusual. In my experience as a police officer I had never known of a person (or prisoner) being released because of a language barrier. Interpreters were, of course, always available."

Does anyone know who this latin man is that Craig identified? Does anyone have any other interesting comments relating to R. Craig?

Thanks.

Antti

Speculation says this man - who allegedly screamed something in Spanish during the motorcade, but was released. Not sure if this is the same photo that was shown to Craig - not sure if Craig had the right guy either.

- lee

Hi : Lee:

The photo is from the Marsh collection, who got it from Jim Garrison, there was nothing related that the man screamed anything during the motorcade.. is that new....information...from him ...?

Just that he was arrested after the assn, as well as others......and released by the PDP..because he spoke no English...When Garrison showed it to Craig he thought it was the man driving the station wagon....?? .......

FWIW....

B.......

Edited by Bernice Moore
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At 3min10sec on this

Jesse Curry said: “…Oswald was picked up by a Negro in a car…”to me that proves, that there was in fact a story around on Friday afternoon 22.11.1963 in the DPD about Oswald leaving the crime scene in a car, without driving it by himself… I am pretty sure, that Curry is referring to the Latin man (whether it is del Valle or not), and the Rambler in that Video.
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Antti,

I read the following, which is an unpublished manuscript

written by the late Roger Craig:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/WTKaP.html

In it Roger Craig mentions that Jim Garrison showed him a picture of a man who was in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd 1963 at the time of the assassination. Craig says he identified the man as the same man who drove the Rambler station wagon, which he claims Lee jumped into.

Quote from the article refrenced above:

" I had several meetings with Jim Garrison. He showed me numerous pictures taken in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963. Among them was a picture of a Latin male. I recognized him as being the same man I had seen driving the Rambler station wagon in which I had seen Oswald leave the Book Depository area.

Thanks.

Antti

Depending on which picture Roger Craig was shown, I have speculated that the dark complected driver was Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro, he of 3126 Harlendale fame.

Two other officers of SNFE/Alpha 66 that met at the Harlandale address about every other Saturday were Raul Castro and Juan Quintana Mayo. They lived in Garland.

In his Sheriff's Report filed on November 23, 1963, Deputy Sheriff, Roger Craig wrote about a man seen running down the hill in front of the TSBD and getting into a light colored Rambler. "The man driving this station wagon was a dark complected white male."

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/craig1.htm

On April 1, 1964 he testified before the WC, and tld them, "Mr. BELIN - What about the man who was driving the car?

Mr. CRAIG - Now, he struck me, at first, as being a colored male. He was very dark complected, had real dark short hair, and was wearing a thin white-looking Jacket..."

Sounds an awful lot like the dark completed man standing with Umbrella Man doesn't it?

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/craig.htm

Here is a physical description of Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro on page 5 of April 26, 1964 Report of Wallace Heitman.

5’11”, 158 lbs, has brown hair, dark glasses, and has a dark complexion. (This description could also fit the "dark complected man".)

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=223

In another FBI Report of 11/23/63, it says that Rodriguez couldn't speak English.

Warrren Commission Document# 1085 is a June 11, 1964 letter from J. Edgar Hoover with attached memoranda and reports. Included in that letter is a heavily redacted April 29, 1964 report from Dallas SA Wallace Heitman. It speaks about an automobile parked in front of a residence in Garland, Texas (Castro's and Quintera's) that displayed a bumper sticker that read, "Kill the Kennedy Klan."

They had picked up this bumper sticker at a John Birch Society meeting held in October. Originally it read, "Kan the Kennedy Klan", but somebody had scrathed out the word, "Kan" and changed it to "Kill".

His report also says that after the assassination, efforts were made to remove this bumper sticker.

The Rambler was owned by Raul Castro. (See Wallace Heitman’s interviews with Castro and Quintera.)

On page 5 of this Report, it says, "On April 9, 1964, SA Wallace R. Heitman observed parked on the street in front of the residence at ..... Garland, Texas a late-model, four door Rambler automobile, bearing license PD-4976."

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=214

Steve Thomas

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Antti,
I read the following, which is an unpublished manuscript

written by the late Roger Craig:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/WTKaP.html

In it Roger Craig mentions that Jim Garrison showed him a picture of a man who was in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd 1963 at the time of the assassination. Craig says he identified the man as the same man who drove the Rambler station wagon, which he claims Lee jumped into.

Quote from the article refrenced above:

" I had several meetings with Jim Garrison. He showed me numerous pictures taken in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963. Among them was a picture of a Latin male. I recognized him as being the same man I had seen driving the Rambler station wagon in which I had seen Oswald leave the Book Depository area.

Thanks.

Antti

Depending on which picture Roger Craig was shown, I have speculated that the dark complected driver was Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro, he of 3126 Harlendale fame.

Two other officers of SNFE/Alpha 66 that met at the Harlandale address about every other Saturday were Raul Castro and Juan Quintana Mayo. They lived in Garland.

In his Sheriff's Report filed on November 23, 1963, Deputy Sheriff, Roger Craig wrote about a man seen running down the hill in front of the TSBD and getting into a light colored Rambler. "The man driving this station wagon was a dark complected white male."

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/craig1.htm

On April 1, 1964 he testified before the WC, and tld them, "Mr. BELIN - What about the man who was driving the car?

Mr. CRAIG - Now, he struck me, at first, as being a colored male. He was very dark complected, had real dark short hair, and was wearing a thin white-looking Jacket..."

Sounds an awful lot like the dark completed man standing with Umbrella Man doesn't it?

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/craig.htm

Here is a physical description of Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro on page 5 of April 26, 1964 Report of Wallace Heitman.

5’11”, 158 lbs, has brown hair, dark glasses, and has a dark complexion. (This description could also fit the "dark complected man".)

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=223

In another FBI Report of 11/23/63, it says that Rodriguez couldn't speak English.

Warrren Commission Document# 1085 is a June 11, 1964 letter from J. Edgar Hoover with attached memoranda and reports. Included in that letter is a heavily redacted April 29, 1964 report from Dallas SA Wallace Heitman. It speaks about an automobile parked in front of a residence in Garland, Texas (Castro's and Quintera's) that displayed a bumper sticker that read, "Kill the Kennedy Klan."

They had picked up this bumper sticker at a John Birch Society meeting held in October. Originally it read, "Kan the Kennedy Klan", but somebody had scrathed out the word, "Kan" and changed it to "Kill".

His report also says that after the assassination, efforts were made to remove this bumper sticker.

The Rambler was owned by Raul Castro. (See Wallace Heitman’s interviews with Castro and Quintera.)

On page 5 of this Report, it says, "On April 9, 1964, SA Wallace R. Heitman observed parked on the street in front of the residence at ..... Garland, Texas a late-model, four door Rambler automobile, bearing license PD-4976."

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=214

Steve Thomas

Steve, the above link, the one referencing the Rambler with license PD-4976, didn't work for me. This I think is the correct link: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=214

Roy Bierma

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Steve Thomas Posted Yesterday, 03:45 PM

Antti,

QUOTE(Antti Hynonen @ May 28 2004, 12:59 PM)

I read the following, which is an unpublished manuscript

written by the late Roger Craig:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/WTKaP.html

In it Roger Craig mentions that Jim Garrison showed him a picture of a man who was in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd 1963 at the time of the assassination. Craig says he identified the man as the same man who drove the Rambler station wagon, which he claims Lee jumped into.

Quote from the article refrenced above:

" I had several meetings with Jim Garrison. He showed me numerous pictures taken in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963. Among them was a picture of a Latin male. I recognized him as being the same man I had seen driving the Rambler station wagon in which I had seen Oswald leave the Book Depository area.

Thanks.

Antti

Depending on which picture Roger Craig was shown, I have speculated that the dark complected driver was Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro, he of 3126 Harlendale fame.

Two other officers of SNFE/Alpha 66 that met at the Harlandale address about every other Saturday were Raul Castro and Juan Quintana Mayo. They lived in Garland.

In his Sheriff's Report filed on November 23, 1963, Deputy Sheriff, Roger Craig wrote about a man seen running down the hill in front of the TSBD and getting into a light colored Rambler. "The man driving this station wagon was a dark complected white male."

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/craig1.htm

On April 1, 1964 he testified before the WC, and tld them, "Mr. BELIN - What about the man who was driving the car?

Mr. CRAIG - Now, he struck me, at first, as being a colored male. He was very dark complected, had real dark short hair, and was wearing a thin white-looking Jacket..."

Sounds an awful lot like the dark completed man standing with Umbrella Man doesn't it?

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/craig.htm

Here is a physical description of Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro on page 5 of April 26, 1964 Report of Wallace Heitman.

5’11”, 158 lbs, has brown hair, dark glasses, and has a dark complexion. (This description could also fit the "dark complected man".)

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=223

In another FBI Report of 11/23/63, it says that Rodriguez couldn't speak English.

Warrren Commission Document# 1085 is a June 11, 1964 letter from J. Edgar Hoover with attached memoranda and reports. Included in that letter is a heavily redacted April 29, 1964 report from Dallas SA Wallace Heitman. It speaks about an automobile parked in front of a residence in Garland, Texas (Castro's and Quintera's) that displayed a bumper sticker that read, "Kill the Kennedy Klan."

They had picked up this bumper sticker at a John Birch Society meeting held in October. Originally it read, "Kan the Kennedy Klan", but somebody had scrathed out the word, "Kan" and changed it to "Kill".

His report also says that after the assassination, efforts were made to remove this bumper sticker.

The Rambler was owned by Raul Castro. (See Wallace Heitman’s interviews with Castro and Quintera.)

On page 5 of this Report, it says, "On April 9, 1964, SA Wallace R. Heitman observed parked on the street in front of the residence at ..... Garland, Texas a late-model, four door Rambler automobile, bearing license PD-4976."

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=214

Steve Thomas

Steve,

Thanks for all this info. I have not yet opened the links you have attached. In your post you mention Raoul Castro, I suspect he is a different Raoul than the current President of Cuba?

The initial reason for starting this thread was to hopefully ID the man and the photo shown to Craig, hoping that this would lead to a clearer picture of the hispanic/latin people in and around Dealy Plaza on 11/22/63.

Glad to see this old thread revived.

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Antti,

Steve,

Thanks for all this info. I have not yet opened the links you have attached. In your post you mention Raoul Castro, I suspect he is a different Raoul than the current President of Cuba?

His full name was Raul Castro Baile.

For an unredacted version of this memo about the Rambler and people receiving mail at 806 E. Monica Dr. in Garland, see Robert Gremberling's 3/30/64 Report here:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=174

Some of the mail they received was the magazine, "Zigzag Libre", which, if I remember right, was the first reported information about Oswald and his activities in New Orleans.

He and Quintana were sent from Cuba to Mexico to ostensibly train as crop dusters, but he suspected that the training they were receiving was more military in nature.

I think that it was the second time they were sent to Mexico, he and Quintana defected and swam across the river at Brownsville. They wound up marrying sisters.

They worked as roofers.

Steve Thomas

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