John Connally's Wounds Considered

[Ashton Gray]

The following cheerfully ignores (in giant economy-sized portions) countless theories and arguments concerning the wounds of John Connally, including exactly when and where they might have been delivered and received in relation to the wounds of John F. Kennedy.

What follows started, instead, with several medical charts and diagrams about Connally's wounds, plus testimony from Secret Service Agent Roy Kellerman about the tenor and spacing of shots, and testimony from Mrs. Connally about the sound of shots and when she felt her husband was hit. These data were compared to the Zapruder film without regard to earlier analyses of or speculations about that film in relation to John Connally's wounds.

All the data that was considered and compared isn't going to be put into this post, but the combined data seemed to indicate that John Connally was struck in the back, near his right armpit, at approximately Z:286, a portion of which is shown here (the blue at the bottom merely part of the Zapruder movie this was cropped from, showing how this was framed in the film):

Prior to that—from a point shortly after the limo emerged from the Stemmons freeway sign—Connally had been turned around looking at President Kennedy, apparently saying or shouting something, with Jacqueline Kennedy looking at him most of that time, and—importantly—John Connally's right arm was resting, or braced to help him turn around, along the top inside of the limo next to him, palm down, as shown in this sequence from the Zapruder film:

Consideration was given to where a shot might have come from that could have entered Connally's back while he was turned around, existed his chest, and struck the top side of his right forearm ("top side" being used here to indicate the side of the arm where the fingernails are on the hand) before exiting on the underside--or palm side—of the forearm near the wrist, then possibly richocheting off the inside of the limo to strike his left thigh.

Before attempting to create in the 3D model of Dealey Plaza a new possible trajectory, it was decided to view the estimated location of John Connally at Z:286 from a window of the County Records building that earlier had been found as a possible location for a shooter of the head shot to John F. Kennedy through an experiment described on forum page 15 of the thread called Who were the shooters.

Later, that same location had been tested as a possible location for a shooter of the back shot to John F. Kennedy, covered in the topic The Back Wound Considered.

In both cases that County Records window provided a clear and unobstructed shot that seemed consistent with other evidence.

Looking down from that same window in the 3D model on the estimated location of the limo and John Connally at the time of Z:286 produced this view:

The next step was to zoom in on the limo from that window and attempt, within severe technical limitations in the software being used on positioning the 3D human figure stand-ins, to at least approximate the position of John Connally's body, as well as that of John F. Kennedy. Given the limitations, the results are by no means conclusive, but also are considered not to exclude this location for a shot to the back of John Connally, and are considered of sufficient interest to post here.

There was no way to move or position the John Connally figure's right arm, so after the image was captured in the 3D program it was enhanced in Photoshop solely by the "painting in" of the arm along the inside of the limo, in a very rough approximation of what seems to be depicted in the Zapruder film before Connally's arm goes out of frame. Here is what was seen from the County Records window, zoomed in:

Several things were considered to be of significant interest in what emerged from this experiment:

• 1. It offers a possible and reasonable answer for how and why the bullet exiting the chest would hit the top side, not the underside, of Connally's arm.
  2. It comports with testimony of two shots in rapid succession (after an earlier shot more distantly spaced in time) if the first of the two closely-timed shots hit Connally in the back and the one immediately afterward was the head shot.
  3. It shows that the shot to Connally's back could have been a missed attempt at John F. Kennedy's head from that same window, followed almost immediately by the successful head shot.
  

This experiment was not done and is not being presented as any final answer or theory. It is data of interest that seems to align a great deal of heretofore unaligned data. It also aligns completely with the earlier experiments linked to above, one considering the head shot (which led to this County Records building window to begin with), the other considering the back shot.

Ashton Gray

Edited January 5, 2007 by Ashton Gray

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Ashton, as you are aware the original FBI investigation came up with the following. Three shots thusly.

1, Hits JFK in the back.

2, Hits Connally in the back.

3, Hits JFK in the head. All shots originating from behind...Ergo Oswald lone gunman, we can all go home. Then two flies in the ointment appear, James Tague, and the Zapruder film. Enter Arlen Spector and his wall of nonsence.

Now, Dr Gregory testified to removing two bullet fragments which were taken from Connally's wrist.(although depending on which evidence you read it may have been as many as five) In fact W/C photo evidenc shows four fragments had been removed, and from Drs testimony plenty more remained in his body. There is simply to much lead, either removed, or left in situ for a match to be made with CE399.....Steve.

[Ashton Gray]

Ashton, as you are aware the original FBI investigation came up with the following. Three shots thusly.

1, Hits JFK in the back.

Check. Personally, I currently think it likely that was the first shot, which SS Agent Kellerman and others described as sounding like a firecracker, coming when the limo was behind the Stemmons sign relative to Zapruder. Viewing such a shot from this top right County Records window:

Produced this as a close-up:

The FBI 302 on the autopsy said the angle of entry of the back shot was between 45 and 60 degrees. When I measured the angle of the back shot from that window I got:

2, Hits Connally in the back.

Check. Which I've covered with this topic to the extent I'm able. Nothing I've found so far seems to argue very strongly against what I've described and demonstrated in the opening message above.

3, Hits JFK in the head.

Check. The head shot, and particularly the ejecta visible in Z:314, is what led to the angle of fire pointing to the upper right County Records window. Testing the head shot from there produced these images:

In these experiments with the 3D model, the Connolly shot and the Kennedy head shot would come very close together, with Connally collapsing back against his wife right after being hit, and Kennedy being shot in the head almost immediately.

I frankly was surprised to discover how these things came together with a great deal of testimony and evidence, particularly about the closeness in timing of the later two shots, and the fact that they both had a sound described as being like that of a bow wave from high-velocity shots, versus the first report, which has been described as more akin to a firecracker.

This curiously coincides with a back wound that didn't penetrate very far (firecracker-like sound), versus two later shots that, if the above has merit, both did extreme damage seemingly consistent with high-velocity bullets.

A lot of ducks start lining up into a row.

All shots originating from behind...

Right. And that does seem to be where a patsy was set up: behind. Just behind on a different angle of fire.

Ergo Oswald lone gunman, we can all go home.

At the risk of repeating myself: And that does seem to be where a patsy was set up: behind. Just behind on a different angle of fire.

Then two flies in the ointment appear, James Tague

Yes, there is James Tague, isn't there...

and the Zapruder film.

Hm. Well, as I see it, the Zapruder film and the three shots illustrated above snap right together.

Enter Arlen Spector and his wall of nonsence.

Oh, let's leave that nut out of it. I've had about all of him I can take. Whaddaya say?

Ashton

Edited January 5, 2007 by Ashton Gray

[Guest Stephen Turner]

and the Zapruder film.

Hm. Well, as I see it, the Zapruder film and the three shots illustrated above snap right together.

Surely does, but the closeness of shots two and three proved mighty troublesome to the FBIs Oswald lone nut theory.

Enter Arlen Spector and his wall of nonsence.

Oh, let's leave that nut out of it. I've had about all of him I can take. Whaddaya say?

Come on Ash, he had some great hits before the SBT flop. Remember the Ronnettes..Steve.

Ashton

[Gary Murr]

The following cheerfully ignores (in giant economy-sized portions) countless theories and arguments concerning the wounds of John Connally, including exactly when and where they might have been delivered and received in relation to the wounds of John F. Kennedy.

What follows started, instead, with several medical charts and diagrams about Connally's wounds, plus testimony from Secret Service Agent Roy Kellerman about the tenor and spacing of shots, and testimony from Mrs. Connally about the sound of shots and when she felt her husband was hit. These data were compared to the Zapruder film without regard to earlier analyses of or speculations about that film in relation to John Connally's wounds.

All the data that was considered and compared isn't going to be put into this post, but the combined data seemed to indicate that John Connally was struck in the back, near his right armpit, at approximately Z:286, a portion of which is shown here (the blue at the bottom merely part of the Zapruder movie this was cropped from, showing how this was framed in the film):

Prior to that—from a point shortly after the limo emerged from the Stemmons freeway sign—Connally had been turned around looking at President Kennedy, apparently saying or shouting something, with Jacqueline Kennedy looking at him most of that time, and—importantly—John Connally's right arm was resting, or braced to help him turn around, along the top inside of the limo next to him, palm down, as shown in this sequence from the Zapruder film:

Consideration was given to where a shot might have come from that could have entered Connally's back while he was turned around, existed his chest, and struck the top side of his right forearm ("top side" being used here to indicate the side of the arm where the fingernails are on the hand) before exiting on the underside--or palm side—of the forearm near the wrist, then possibly richocheting off the inside of the limo to strike his left thigh.

Before attempting to create in the 3D model of Dealey Plaza a new possible trajectory, it was decided to view the estimated location of John Connally at Z:286 from a window of the County Records building that earlier had been found as a possible location for a shooter of the head shot to John F. Kennedy through an experiment described on forum page 15 of the thread called Who were the shooters.

Later, that same location had been tested as a possible location for a shooter of the back shot to John F. Kennedy, covered in the topic The Back Wound Considered.

In both cases that County Records window provided a clear and unobstructed shot that seemed consistent with other evidence.

Looking down from that same window in the 3D model on the estimated location of the limo and John Connally at the time of Z:286 produced this view:

The next step was to zoom in on the limo from that window and attempt, within severe technical limitations in the software being used on positioning the 3D human figure stand-ins, to at least approximate the position of John Connally's body, as well as that of John F. Kennedy. Given the limitations, the results are by no means conclusive, but also are considered not to exclude this location for a shot to the back of John Connally, and are considered of sufficient interest to post here.

There was no way to move or position the John Connally figure's right arm, so after the image was captured in the 3D program it was enhanced in Photoshop solely by the "painting in" of the arm along the inside of the limo, in a very rough approximation of what seems to be depicted in the Zapruder film before Connally's arm goes out of frame. Here is what was seen from the County Records window, zoomed in:

Several things were considered to be of significant interest in what emerged from this experiment:

• 1. It offers a possible and reasonable answer for how and why the bullet exiting the chest would hit the top side, not the underside, of Connally's arm.
  2. It comports with testimony of two shots in rapid succession (after an earlier shot more distantly spaced in time) if the first of the two closely-timed shots hit Connally in the back and the one immediately afterward was the head shot.
  3. It shows that the shot to Connally's back could have been a missed attempt at John F. Kennedy's head from that same window, followed almost immediately by the successful head shot.
  

This experiment was not done and is not being presented as any final answer or theory. It is data of interest that seems to align a great deal of heretofore unaligned data. It also aligns completely with the earlier experiments linked to above, one considering the head shot (which led to this County Records building window to begin with), the other considering the back shot.

Ashton Gray

Ashton:

Being a "newbie" to this forum, an individual who has from time to time lurked with interest at the various postings produced herein, I felt compelled to respond, in part, to portions of your post regarding the wounding of John Connally. As someone with more than a passing interest in this subject matter, I am impressed with your due dilligence in attempting to explain, via the use of illustrations, the myriad complications that arise in conjunction with this a most complex subject matter. Having said that, I might offer the following to you based, as these suggestions are, on a rather detailed examination of all matters surrounding the wounding of John Connally.

Unfortunately I disagree with two key components of your advanced argument. [1] My examination of the Zapruder film leads me to believe that John Connally's right arm/forearm is not "resting...along the top inside of the limo..." as you contend. I do agree that Connally has braced himself in an effort to aid his attempt at rotating to his right to better view happenings in the back of the limousine. However, I feel that this "bracing" is accomplished by the Governor as he positions his right elbow along the top of the back of the jumpseat he is occupying, a pivot point if you will, that may or may not have helped with this attempted maneuver. - FWIW; and: [2] The missile that struck the distal end of the Governor's right radius did not strike this same anatomical feature on "the top side..." of this particular bone. Of this there is absolutely no doubt.

I apologize for the brevity of this response. However, these particular issues, plus many more, are covered in great detail in my forthcoming book on the wounding of Governor Connally.

Gary Murr

[Bill Miller]

Another thing is that Connally's suit jacket sleeve must be down by the wound for the shot to have occurred at a certain point. I say this because there was damage to the jacket sleeve by the bullet that then passed into the wrist. Where on the Zapruder film do they align in such a way?

Bill Miller

[Jack White]

The following cheerfully ignores (in giant economy-sized portions) countless theories and arguments concerning the wounds of John Connally, including exactly when and where they might have been delivered and received in relation to the wounds of John F. Kennedy.

What follows started, instead, with several medical charts and diagrams about Connally's wounds, plus testimony from Secret Service Agent Roy Kellerman about the tenor and spacing of shots, and testimony from Mrs. Connally about the sound of shots and when she felt her husband was hit. These data were compared to the Zapruder film without regard to earlier analyses of or speculations about that film in relation to John Connally's wounds.

All the data that was considered and compared isn't going to be put into this post, but the combined data seemed to indicate that John Connally was struck in the back, near his right armpit, at approximately Z:286, a portion of which is shown here (the blue at the bottom merely part of the Zapruder movie this was cropped from, showing how this was framed in the film):

Prior to that—from a point shortly after the limo emerged from the Stemmons freeway sign—Connally had been turned around looking at President Kennedy, apparently saying or shouting something, with Jacqueline Kennedy looking at him most of that time, and—importantly—John Connally's right arm was resting, or braced to help him turn around, along the top inside of the limo next to him, palm down, as shown in this sequence from the Zapruder film:

Consideration was given to where a shot might have come from that could have entered Connally's back while he was turned around, existed his chest, and struck the top side of his right forearm ("top side" being used here to indicate the side of the arm where the fingernails are on the hand) before exiting on the underside--or palm side—of the forearm near the wrist, then possibly richocheting off the inside of the limo to strike his left thigh.

Before attempting to create in the 3D model of Dealey Plaza a new possible trajectory, it was decided to view the estimated location of John Connally at Z:286 from a window of the County Records building that earlier had been found as a possible location for a shooter of the head shot to John F. Kennedy through an experiment described on forum page 15 of the thread called Who were the shooters.

Later, that same location had been tested as a possible location for a shooter of the back shot to John F. Kennedy, covered in the topic The Back Wound Considered.

In both cases that County Records window provided a clear and unobstructed shot that seemed consistent with other evidence.

Looking down from that same window in the 3D model on the estimated location of the limo and John Connally at the time of Z:286 produced this view:

The next step was to zoom in on the limo from that window and attempt, within severe technical limitations in the software being used on positioning the 3D human figure stand-ins, to at least approximate the position of John Connally's body, as well as that of John F. Kennedy. Given the limitations, the results are by no means conclusive, but also are considered not to exclude this location for a shot to the back of John Connally, and are considered of sufficient interest to post here.

There was no way to move or position the John Connally figure's right arm, so after the image was captured in the 3D program it was enhanced in Photoshop solely by the "painting in" of the arm along the inside of the limo, in a very rough approximation of what seems to be depicted in the Zapruder film before Connally's arm goes out of frame. Here is what was seen from the County Records window, zoomed in:

Several things were considered to be of significant interest in what emerged from this experiment:

• 1. It offers a possible and reasonable answer for how and why the bullet exiting the chest would hit the top side, not the underside, of Connally's arm.
  2. It comports with testimony of two shots in rapid succession (after an earlier shot more distantly spaced in time) if the first of the two closely-timed shots hit Connally in the back and the one immediately afterward was the head shot.
  3. It shows that the shot to Connally's back could have been a missed attempt at John F. Kennedy's head from that same window, followed almost immediately by the successful head shot.
  

This experiment was not done and is not being presented as any final answer or theory. It is data of interest that seems to align a great deal of heretofore unaligned data. It also aligns completely with the earlier experiments linked to above, one considering the head shot (which led to this County Records building window to begin with), the other considering the back shot.

Ashton Gray

Ashton:

Being a "newbie" to this forum, an individual who has from time to time lurked with interest at the various postings produced herein, I felt compelled to respond, in part, to portions of your post regarding the wounding of John Connally. As someone with more than a passing interest in this subject matter, I am impressed with your due dilligence in attempting to explain, via the use of illustrations, the myriad complications that arise in conjunction with this a most complex subject matter. Having said that, I might offer the following to you based, as these suggestions are, on a rather detailed examination of all matters surrounding the wounding of John Connally.

Unfortunately I disagree with two key components of your advanced argument. [1] My examination of the Zapruder film leads me to believe that John Connally's right arm/forearm is not "resting...along the top inside of the limo..." as you contend. I do agree that Connally has braced himself in an effort to aid his attempt at rotating to his right to better view happenings in the back of the limousine. However, I feel that this "bracing" is accomplished by the Governor as he positions his right elbow along the top of the back of the jumpseat he is occupying, a pivot point if you will, that may or may not have helped with this attempted maneuver. - FWIW; and: [2] The missile that struck the distal end of the Governor's right radius did not strike this same anatomical feature on "the top side..." of this particular bone. Of this there is absolutely no doubt.

I apologize for the brevity of this response. However, these particular issues, plus many more, are covered in great detail in my forthcoming book on the wounding of Governor Connally.

Gary Murr

Relying only on memory, I must disagree with Gary's statement:

"and: [2] The missile that struck the distal end of the Governor's right radius did not strike this same anatomical feature on "the top side..." of this particular bone. Of this there is absolutely no doubt."

I know that I read and distinctly remember for many years that

the Connally wrist entry WAS ON THE TOP SIDE of the wrist, that is,

the same as the back of the hand, not the palm side. Gary please

cite your reason for "no doubt" about this.

Thanks.

Jack

[Jack White]

Ashton, as you are aware the original FBI investigation came up with the following. Three shots thusly.

1, Hits JFK in the back.

Check. Personally, I currently think it likely that was the first shot, which SS Agent Kellerman and others described as sounding like a firecracker, coming when the limo was behind the Stemmons sign relative to Zapruder. Viewing such a shot from this top right County Records window:

Produced this as a close-up:

The FBI 302 on the autopsy said the angle of entry of the back shot was between 45 and 60 degrees. When I measured the angle of the back shot from that window I got:

2, Hits Connally in the back.

Check. Which I've covered with this topic to the extent I'm able. Nothing I've found so far seems to argue very strongly against what I've described and demonstrated in the opening message above.

3, Hits JFK in the head.

Check. The head shot, and particularly the ejecta visible in Z:314, is what led to the angle of fire pointing to the upper right County Records window. Testing the head shot from there produced these images:

In these experiments with the 3D model, the Connolly shot and the Kennedy head shot would come very close together, with Connally collapsing back against his wife right after being hit, and Kennedy being shot in the head almost immediately.

I frankly was surprised to discover how these things came together with a great deal of testimony and evidence, particularly about the closeness in timing of the later two shots, and the fact that they both had a sound described as being like that of a bow wave from high-velocity shots, versus the first report, which has been described as more akin to a firecracker.

This curiously coincides with a back wound that didn't penetrate very far (firecracker-like sound), versus two later shots that, if the above has merit, both did extreme damage seemingly consistent with high-velocity bullets.

A lot of ducks start lining up into a row.

All shots originating from behind...

Right. And that does seem to be where a patsy was set up: behind. Just behind on a different angle of fire.

Ergo Oswald lone gunman, we can all go home.

At the risk of repeating myself: And that does seem to be where a patsy was set up: behind. Just behind on a different angle of fire.

Then two flies in the ointment appear, James Tague

Yes, there is James Tague, isn't there...

and the Zapruder film.

Hm. Well, as I see it, the Zapruder film and the three shots illustrated above snap right together.

Enter Arlen Spector and his wall of nonsence.

Oh, let's leave that nut out of it. I've had about all of him I can take. Whaddaya say?

Ashton

Ashton...I enjoy your computer graphics. They visualize things only imagined before,

though I don't necessarily agree with all your conclusions.

A question...would the ROOF of the Records building work as well as a window?

My longtime opinion, which I would like to see your graphics to show:

Connally chest shot, from Dal-Tex building; Connally wrist/thigh shot, from a

westmost TSBD sixth floor window.

Thanks.

Jack

[Pat Speer]

FWIW, I think Gary Murr's statements about the wrist were meant to indicate that the bullet did not go straight through the wrist. As I recall, the entrance and exit were not in alignment, indicating the bullet struck the wrist at an angle to the forearm.

To me, it's crystal clear that Connally is hit at Z-224. While Lat/Pos/Myers try to claim a hit at Z-224 as support for the SBT, I believe it disproves the SBT. It's nearly as obvious to me that Kennedy is hit circa 190, BEFORE going behind the sign. 190-224 is only 34 frames...too short a time for Oswald to have aimed and fired accurately. Evidence for conspiracy #100.

P.S. Connally has always insisted he yelled out after being hit. He yells out long before Z-286. Jackie said he screamed like a stuck pig.

[Gary Murr]

The following cheerfully ignores (in giant economy-sized portions) countless theories and arguments concerning the wounds of John Connally, including exactly when and where they might have been delivered and received in relation to the wounds of John F. Kennedy.

What follows started, instead, with several medical charts and diagrams about Connally's wounds, plus testimony from Secret Service Agent Roy Kellerman about the tenor and spacing of shots, and testimony from Mrs. Connally about the sound of shots and when she felt her husband was hit. These data were compared to the Zapruder film without regard to earlier analyses of or speculations about that film in relation to John Connally's wounds.

All the data that was considered and compared isn't going to be put into this post, but the combined data seemed to indicate that John Connally was struck in the back, near his right armpit, at approximately Z:286, a portion of which is shown here (the blue at the bottom merely part of the Zapruder movie this was cropped from, showing how this was framed in the film):

Prior to that—from a point shortly after the limo emerged from the Stemmons freeway sign—Connally had been turned around looking at President Kennedy, apparently saying or shouting something, with Jacqueline Kennedy looking at him most of that time, and—importantly—John Connally's right arm was resting, or braced to help him turn around, along the top inside of the limo next to him, palm down, as shown in this sequence from the Zapruder film:

Consideration was given to where a shot might have come from that could have entered Connally's back while he was turned around, existed his chest, and struck the top side of his right forearm ("top side" being used here to indicate the side of the arm where the fingernails are on the hand) before exiting on the underside--or palm side—of the forearm near the wrist, then possibly richocheting off the inside of the limo to strike his left thigh.

Before attempting to create in the 3D model of Dealey Plaza a new possible trajectory, it was decided to view the estimated location of John Connally at Z:286 from a window of the County Records building that earlier had been found as a possible location for a shooter of the head shot to John F. Kennedy through an experiment described on forum page 15 of the thread called Who were the shooters.

Later, that same location had been tested as a possible location for a shooter of the back shot to John F. Kennedy, covered in the topic The Back Wound Considered.

In both cases that County Records window provided a clear and unobstructed shot that seemed consistent with other evidence.

Looking down from that same window in the 3D model on the estimated location of the limo and John Connally at the time of Z:286 produced this view:

The next step was to zoom in on the limo from that window and attempt, within severe technical limitations in the software being used on positioning the 3D human figure stand-ins, to at least approximate the position of John Connally's body, as well as that of John F. Kennedy. Given the limitations, the results are by no means conclusive, but also are considered not to exclude this location for a shot to the back of John Connally, and are considered of sufficient interest to post here.

There was no way to move or position the John Connally figure's right arm, so after the image was captured in the 3D program it was enhanced in Photoshop solely by the "painting in" of the arm along the inside of the limo, in a very rough approximation of what seems to be depicted in the Zapruder film before Connally's arm goes out of frame. Here is what was seen from the County Records window, zoomed in:

Several things were considered to be of significant interest in what emerged from this experiment:

• 1. It offers a possible and reasonable answer for how and why the bullet exiting the chest would hit the top side, not the underside, of Connally's arm.
  2. It comports with testimony of two shots in rapid succession (after an earlier shot more distantly spaced in time) if the first of the two closely-timed shots hit Connally in the back and the one immediately afterward was the head shot.
  3. It shows that the shot to Connally's back could have been a missed attempt at John F. Kennedy's head from that same window, followed almost immediately by the successful head shot.
  

This experiment was not done and is not being presented as any final answer or theory. It is data of interest that seems to align a great deal of heretofore unaligned data. It also aligns completely with the earlier experiments linked to above, one considering the head shot (which led to this County Records building window to begin with), the other considering the back shot.

Ashton Gray

Ashton:

Being a "newbie" to this forum, an individual who has from time to time lurked with interest at the various postings produced herein, I felt compelled to respond, in part, to portions of your post regarding the wounding of John Connally. As someone with more than a passing interest in this subject matter, I am impressed with your due dilligence in attempting to explain, via the use of illustrations, the myriad complications that arise in conjunction with this a most complex subject matter. Having said that, I might offer the following to you based, as these suggestions are, on a rather detailed examination of all matters surrounding the wounding of John Connally.

Unfortunately I disagree with two key components of your advanced argument. [1] My examination of the Zapruder film leads me to believe that John Connally's right arm/forearm is not "resting...along the top inside of the limo..." as you contend. I do agree that Connally has braced himself in an effort to aid his attempt at rotating to his right to better view happenings in the back of the limousine. However, I feel that this "bracing" is accomplished by the Governor as he positions his right elbow along the top of the back of the jumpseat he is occupying, a pivot point if you will, that may or may not have helped with this attempted maneuver. - FWIW; and: [2] The missile that struck the distal end of the Governor's right radius did not strike this same anatomical feature on "the top side..." of this particular bone. Of this there is absolutely no doubt.

I apologize for the brevity of this response. However, these particular issues, plus many more, are covered in great detail in my forthcoming book on the wounding of Governor Connally.

Gary Murr

Relying only on memory, I must disagree with Gary's statement:

"and: [2] The missile that struck the distal end of the Governor's right radius did not strike this same anatomical feature on "the top side..." of this particular bone. Of this there is absolutely no doubt."

I know that I read and distinctly remember for many years that

the Connally wrist entry WAS ON THE TOP SIDE of the wrist, that is,

the same as the back of the hand, not the palm side. Gary please

cite your reason for "no doubt" about this.

Thanks.

Jack

Hi Jack:

Sorry not to respond sooner to your query, but I will give a brief response. I base this conclusion on a number of different medical components, the most compelling of which is a drawing made of the "wrist" wound site constructed by Dr. Charles Gregory approximtely 45 minutes after he completed his operation on the Governor's right distal radius. As far as I have been able to ascertain, I do not believe that too many people are aware of this particular diagram, which I reproduce in my forthcoming book.

Gary Murr

[Bill Miller]

It appears to me that at the moment that Connally took a bullet through his shoulder, that his coat lapel flipped up, thus casting a shadow over the Governor's right white shirt cuff. As the lapel comes immediately back down - Connally's cuff and right hand are above and to the right of the exit wound in his chest, thus the SBT must be in error IMO. It also appears to me that JFK wasn't bringing his hands to his throat, but rather his hands to his mouth as if he was trying to cough so to expell something from his throat.

Bill Miller

Edited January 5, 2007 by Bill Miller

[David G. Healy]

It appears to me that at the moment that Connally took a bullet through his shoulder, that his coat lapel flipped up, thus casting a shadow over the Governor's right white shirt cuff. As the lapel comes immediately back down - Connally's cuff and right hand are above and to the right of the exit wound in his chest, thus the SBT must be in error IMO. It also appears to me that JFK wasn't bringing his hands to his throat, but rather his hands to his mouth as if he was trying to cough so to expell something from his throat.

Bill Miller

I'm constantly amazed at what you see in images that no one else here does. Shadow from the lapel, oh-wee... and JFK was trying to cough? Where'd you find these images?

btw, your buddy Davie Von Pain, er Pein was quoting you on the alt.conspiracy.jfk board this morning. You can tell when I really tick em off, he starts quoting Bill Miller...

Edited January 5, 2007 by David G. Healy

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Bill Miller[/b]

I'm constantly amazed at what you see in images that no one else here does. Shadow from the lapel, oh-wee... and JFK was trying to cough? Where'd you find these images?

btw, your buddy Davie Von Pain, er Pein was quoting you on the alt.conspiracy.jfk board this morning. You can tell when I really tick em off, he starts quoting Bill Miller...

JFK does indeed look like his body is brought into a full spasm reaction, similar to ones that take place when one is violently coughing.

Edited January 6, 2007 by Mark Valenti

[Bill Miller]

JFK does indeed look like his body is brought into a full spasm reaction, similar to ones that take place when one is violently coughing.

Of course Kennedy looks to be coughing, but evidently not to Baghdad Bob Healy. The images are of the Zapruder film, which I thought were obvious. I have most of the frames cleaned and brighted so to better watch the body movements of the individuals in the car during the shooting. (That's been part of that research that Baghdad Bob Healy says that I never do) If you look closely, you can see the shirt cuff even when the lapel is up. Connally's hand can also be seen through the bottom corner of the side window. The white cuff is so exposed that it doesn't allow for the single bullet to have gone through both the edge of the coat sleeve and into the wrist at that moment, which brings me back to when did a missile enter Connally's wrist?

Bill Miller

[Ashton Gray]

Unfortunately I disagree with two key components of your advanced argument. [1] My examination of the Zapruder film leads me to believe that John Connally's right arm/forearm is not "resting...along the top inside of the limo..." as you contend. I do agree that Connally has braced himself in an effort to aid his attempt at rotating to his right to better view happenings in the back of the limousine. However, I feel that this "bracing" is accomplished by the Governor as he positions his right elbow along the top of the back of the jumpseat he is occupying, a pivot point if you will, that may or may not have helped with this attempted maneuver.

Hi Gary. Glad to have your shoulder at the wheel. I've just today received some Photoshop enhanced (Shadow and Highlight) zoomed stills of the Zapruder film, and have looked through them this afternoon, and I think you're entirely right on the above. Fortunately, there are no Back-to-the-Drawing-Board quotas imposed by the forum (yet) so it looks like I'll be going back there. Again. I'll try over the weekend to get that section of the enhanced stills put together as an anim. (It's also been called to my attention that the jumpseat backs are relatively too tall, but the person who's doing the limo modeling has lots of work to do on it, and only sent me this incomplete interim version because I bugged him to distraction for it.)

In any case, it's still my considered (and at least somewhat informed) opinion that people with sucking chest wounds don't normally turn around in automobiles and engage in discourse. The response to a sucking chest wound as I understand it is much more consistent with his gaping fall back onto his wife post Z:286, which is evident by 10 frames later, at Z:296.

[2]The missile that struck the distal end of the Governor's right radius did not strike this same anatomical feature on "the top side..." of this particular bone. Of this there is absolutely no doubt.

Hm. Okay. I'm not sure that I understand this. I don't want to encroach on any surprises that you're reserving for your book, but you seem to be saying that two separate projectiles (whole or partial) struck Connally's lower arm/wrist area.

Ashton

Edited January 6, 2007 by Ashton Gray