Behaviour of Members

[Terry Mauro]

I was involuntarily absent from the forum while this thread developed. Consequently I read through it all in one go, yesterday afternoon my time.

As the rest of my comments shall be flippant, I'll start by saying that my appreciation for John and this forum only grow with time.

IMO, it is primarily John's commitment to free and fair speech about important topics that make this forum a special place. I'm sure he has the overwhelming appreciation of forum participants at a difficult time.

Now for the rest...

The forum reminds me of my schooldays. Teacher comes into class and tells class it has been behaving very badly and there have been complaints. We are all invited to discuss our behaviour, while teacher marks homework and occasionally interjects.

The ensuing squabbles, of course, proves that teacher is correct. Some of the cheekiest members of class delight in helping him make his point, again and again and again.

Meanwhile there are several subplots, some off-topic bickering, occasional flirting and further interjections by an apparently exasperated teacher. Many kids just stare out of the window. Paper aeroplanes are exchanged. There are a few rude noises and a couple of smelly farts.

Yet in the end, an outside observer can perceive the underlying rationality in the strategy employed by John Simkin – an avowed anti-nationalist and anti-imperialist - who subverts the dominant paradigm in plain sight while the rest of us aren't even noticing.

This thread has succeeded where successive generations of peace movements on both sides of the puddle have failed.

It has split the 'Atlantic Alliance' - causing resumption of the mutual distrust and acrimony between Britain and America that was the natural state of affairs before the loathsome Winston Churchill wheedled his way into Downing Street.

Brits accuse Americans of being crass, boorish yobbos. Americans accuse Brits of being slimy, lying hypocrites. Both are essentially correct.

As a self-hating English-speaking Australian with strong anti-American tendencies, I find this very encouraging.

There may yet be a way we can rid ourselves of the American bases and spy facilities that make a mockery of our own 'independence'.

I shall ask Her Majesty the Queen, through His Excellency the Governor General in Canberra, to order the arrest of our quisling Prime Minister and directly instruct occupying Yanks to b+++++ off and return Pine Gap to its original inhabitants.

It would be fun to watch Brits and Americans duke it out, assaulting each other with their vile armaments on their own home turf while giving the Iraqis, Afghanis and Germans a well-deserved rest from their evil doing.

I’ve aleady picked my side in World War Five.

I stand 100% behind the Aboriginals and shall be happy slinging spears at both these uncivilized self-styled 'races'.

The sooner they both 'race' off to Mars, the better for the rest of us.

It will take a few million years for the pre-1788 biodiversity of the Australian continent to recover. The priceless cultural heritage of hundreds of language groups and many millennia of practical experience has been eradicated for ever.

Nevertheless, taking a very long-term view, Australia may eventually recover from Anglo-Saxon invaders and their so-called ‘civilization’.

Looking on the bright side, as far as I'm aware, these paragons of virtue have yet to spray depleted uranium around this land.

One of the benefits of staying inside the protection racket?

************************************************************

Well, look at it this way, Sid. After The American Revolution, when that damned Penal Colony ended up becoming the 13th State, and given the name of "Georgia," the Brits had no where to ship their prisoners anymore. That's when they opened up New Zealand and Australia to catch the overflow. BTW, are you guys still called "subjects," down there?

It's funny, but I was just reading an article in WWII History magazine, and one of the stories I came upon was about The Brisbane Riot. Apparently, the American High Command had set up MacArthur's headquarters there and ended up calling it, Base Section 3. Thousands of American troops began passing through, sometimes swelling the population by 100,000 or more people. The Australian soldiers came home to find their city had been turned into an American outpost, and their women keeping time with the Yanks.

From: Military Heritage Presents

WWII HISTORY www.wwiihistorymagazine.com

INSIGHT

Cultures clashed as large numbers of American troops came to Brisbane, Australia during WWII

By Ken Wright

An excerpt

"Maj. Gen. J.M.A. Durrant, commander of the Australian troops in Queensland, interpreted the ill feeling as resentment toward the U.S. servicemen at what seemed to be their first claim on the accommodations, foodstuffs, and luxuries which, rightly or wrongly, "they believe was accorded to U.S. personnel because their spending power is so much greater than the Australians." There was further reference to the perennial problem of U.S. troops and local women. Durrant made mention of "the conduct of a large section of women folk who permit themselves to be literally 'mauled about' in public, irrespective of the time or place." Resentment toward Americans in England by British servicemen was aggravated by the same sentiment. The situation was not made any easier with the American sttitude of being a law unto themselves in the host countries.

In Brisbane alone, divorce figures for 1942-1943 rose from 100 to almost 400. It was estimated that approximately 200 of these involved adultery, with a third attributed to the Americans. The cessation of engagements, falling outs with sweethearts, and broken vows and hearts must have been enormous in number. There is no doubt that Brisbane was the Allied love nest during the war. Of the 15,000 marriages involving American servicemen and nationals, 5,000 were at Base Section 3.

Both the Australians and the Americans had resentment, indeed hatred, for most levels of authority. To many of them, the nemesis of authority was the military police, sometimes called provosts. With almost 100,000 servicemen in the city, the maintenance of law and order was hopelessly out of the reach of the civil authorities and military control was necessary. In Brisbane in late 1942, the American Provost had over 800 active personnel; the Australian Provost staff in the area numbered 110. In November, U.S. military law and order was the responsibility of the 814th and 738th MP Battalions based at Whinstanes, a few minutes from the city center, which was the favorite social haunt for all servicemen as the Australian and American canteens were located there.

The typical provost was armed and aggressive, and one historian of the early war years has suggested, "It is probably a fair generalization to say that in the United States, the display of batons and firearms in the hands of police is an effective way of quelling a riot in the States, whereas in Australia it is an effective way of starting one." The numerically inferior Australian provosts carried only a baton, while the Americans, like lawmen from the old Wild West, carried a holstered .45-caliber automatic, a weapon of devastating effectiveness. On many occasions, the weapons created more problems than they solved. It was also a clash of cultures where one country had, to a degree, been established by the use of firearms, while the other was fortunate enough geographically not to have needed to rely on the gun.

Increasing tensions with provosts, servicemen, and civilians in the depressing environment of a gloomy, dark, and crowded Brisbane suggested that a day of reckoning was at hand. The confrontation between Australian and American servicemen that came to be known as the Battle of Brisbane shocked many but surprised few. Scarcely reported at the time and only sporadically since, the incident has largely faded into history. Most cannot remember. A few cannot forget. In hindsight, the significance of the battle is apparent. Not only was it the largest and most violent disturbance between Allies during the war, but it was a significant factor in destroying Brisbane's innocence and an influential factor in the ever-changing relationship between the two Allies.

[Sid Walker]

...it was a significant factor in destroying Brisbane's innocence and an influential factor in the ever-changing relationship between the two Allies.

Hi Terry

Brisbane's innocence? That rich.

When visiting Brisbane, ask a local why 'Boundary St' and 'Vulture St' - two of the oldest major streets in the city - were given their names.

Unless I have been grossly misinformed, this was not a city conceived in innocence, even by Anglo-American standards.

[John Simkin]

The forum reminds me of my schooldays. Teacher comes into class and tells class it has been behaving very badly and there have been complaints. We are all invited to discuss our behaviour, while teacher marks homework and occasionally interjects.

The ensuing squabbles, of course, proves that teacher is correct. Some of the cheekiest members of class delight in helping him make his point, again and again and again.

Meanwhile there are several subplots, some off-topic bickering, occasional flirting and further interjections by an apparently exasperated teacher. Many kids just stare out of the window. Paper aeroplanes are exchanged. There are a few rude noises and a couple of smelly farts.

As someone who taught for many years I fully recognise this situation. There are many reasons for bad behaviour in the classroom. A very small group have psychological problems that are impossible to deal with. They usually end up being sent to a special school. (I suppose the forum analogy is that they eventually have their membership deleted). This used to be a very small group but over the last few years it has grown very rapidly. The problem has been increased by the closure of some many special schools in order to cope with cuts in the education budget.

Then there are those who misbehave because they are bored. I like to think that I did not have too much trouble from those kinds of kids, but maybe I am wrong about this.

Probably the largest group contains those who see themselves as people who are ultimately going to achieve very little in terms of academic qualifications. Their main concern is to have a “good laugh”. This of course is usually at the expense of the teacher.

Another problem group concerns those who I would describe as having “anti-authoritarian personalities”. They cause problems because it is their duty to challenge those in authority. I have to admit that when I was at school I fell into that category. I actually got on very well with these characters and was usually able to channel their divergent thinking processes into academic success.

However, there was group of students that I was always unable to cope with. The same is true of virtually all teachers. The strategy used by this type of student guarantees success. Reading the files of these students indicates similar backgrounds. They invariably come from broken homes. Their fathers are missing but in the worse cases they have another man living in the family home. Understandably, the crave love, affection and attention. They feel deserted by their fathers and betrayed by their mothers. They know that teachers cannot provide love and affection. However, what they can give them is attention and their behaviour ensures that they get it. That is why all forms of punishment does not have the desired impact on them. In fact, reprimanding them gives them the attention they seek. They actually enjoy being told off because it shows them they are important. They prefer anger to indifference.

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Host1 then goes on to name a specific American—in front of the entire gathering—with the named guest present (Guest5) who he has a particular issue with. He complains about Guest5 at great length......

I can’t help but think that hosts who sincerely want to remedy an incivility issue would handle problem guests discretely and considerately, by addressing them privately and/or initiating a new policing process wherein they could deal with the problem guests without a public pillory.

I assume that the guest in question is Ashton Gray. I personally did not see the post in which Ashton accused John Simkin of being CIA, but I have no doubt it happened, and that John's beef was legitimate, and deserved to be publicly addressed. ...

I don't believe that's the case. In the thread where John is discussing a person he says accused him of being a CIA agent

("John Simkin: CIA Agent?" @ http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...james+richards) he explicitly rules out Ashton Gray:

That may be, but on THIS thread John wrote:

I have suffered a great deal for preserving your [Ashton Gray's] freedom of speech. In return, you [Ashton Gray] have accused me of defending the CIA. In fact, it seems to me, that you are in fact doing the work of the CIA by frightening off people from talking about their past experiences.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

I was involuntarily absent from the forum while this thread developed. Consequently I read through it all in one go, yesterday afternoon my time.

As the rest of my comments shall be flippant, I'll start by saying that my appreciation for John and this forum only grow with time.

IMO, it is primarily John's commitment to free and fair speech about important topics that make this forum a special place. I'm sure he has the overwhelming appreciation of forum participants at a difficult time.

Now for the rest...

The forum reminds me of my schooldays. Teacher comes into class and tells class it has been behaving very badly and there have been complaints. We are all invited to discuss our behaviour, while teacher marks homework and occasionally interjects.

The ensuing squabbles, of course, proves that teacher is correct. Some of the cheekiest members of class delight in helping him make his point, again and again and again.

Meanwhile there are several subplots, some off-topic bickering, occasional flirting and further interjections by an apparently exasperated teacher. Many kids just stare out of the window. Paper aeroplanes are exchanged. There are a few rude noises and a couple of smelly farts.

Yet in the end, an outside observer can perceive the underlying rationality in the strategy employed by John Simkin – an avowed anti-nationalist and anti-imperialist - who subverts the dominant paradigm in plain sight while the rest of us aren't even noticing.

This thread has succeeded where successive generations of peace movements on both sides of the puddle have failed.

It has split the 'Atlantic Alliance' - causing resumption of the mutual distrust and acrimony between Britain and America that was the natural state of affairs before the loathsome Winston Churchill wheedled his way into Downing Street.

Brits accuse Americans of being crass, boorish yobbos. Americans accuse Brits of being slimy, lying hypocrites. Both are essentially correct.

As a self-hating English-speaking Australian with strong anti-American tendencies, I find this very encouraging.

There may yet be a way we can rid ourselves of the American bases and spy facilities that make a mockery of our own 'independence'.

I shall ask Her Majesty the Queen, through His Excellency the Governor General in Canberra, to order the arrest of our quisling Prime Minister and directly instruct occupying Yanks to b+++++ off and return Pine Gap to its original inhabitants.

It would be fun to watch Brits and Americans duke it out, assaulting each other with their vile armaments on their own home turf while giving the Iraqis, Afghanis and Germans a well-deserved rest from their evil doing.

I’ve aleady picked my side in World War Five.

I stand 100% behind the Aboriginals and shall be happy slinging spears at both these uncivilized self-styled 'races'.

The sooner they both 'race' off to Mars, the better for the rest of us.

It will take a few million years for the pre-1788 biodiversity of the Australian continent to recover. The priceless cultural heritage of hundreds of language groups and many millennia of practical experience has been eradicated for ever.

Nevertheless, taking a very long-term view, Australia may eventually recover from Anglo-Saxon invaders and their so-called ‘civilization’.

Looking on the bright side, as far as I'm aware, these paragons of virtue have yet to spray depleted uranium around this land.

One of the benefits of staying inside the protection racket?

************************************************************

Well, look at it this way, Sid. After The American Revolution, when that damned Penal Colony ended up becoming the 13th State, and given the name of "Georgia," the Brits had no where to ship their prisoners anymore. That's when they opened up New Zealand and Australia to catch the overflow. BTW, are you guys still called "subjects," down there?

It's funny, but I was just reading an article in WWII History magazine, and one of the stories I came upon was about The Brisbane Riot. Apparently, the American High Command had set up MacArthur's headquarters there and ended up calling it, Base Section 3. Thousands of American troops began passing through, sometimes swelling the population by 100,000 or more people. The Australian soldiers came home to find their city had been turned into an American outpost, and their women keeping time with the Yanks.

From: Military Heritage Presents

WWII HISTORY www.wwiihistorymagazine.com

INSIGHT

Cultures clashed as large numbers of American troops came to Brisbane, Australia during WWII

By Ken Wright

An excerpt

"Maj. Gen. J.M.A. Durrant, commander of the Australian troops in Queensland, interpreted the ill feeling as resentment toward the U.S. servicemen at what seemed to be their first claim on the accommodations, foodstuffs, and luxuries which, rightly or wrongly, "they believe was accorded to U.S. personnel because their spending power is so much greater than the Australians." There was further reference to the perennial problem of U.S. troops and local women. Durrant made mention of "the conduct of a large section of women folk who permit themselves to be literally 'mauled about' in public, irrespective of the time or place." Resentment toward Americans in England by British servicemen was aggravated by the same sentiment. The situation was not made any easier with the American sttitude of being a law unto themselves in the host countries.

In Brisbane alone, divorce figures for 1942-1943 rose from 100 to almost 400. It was estimated that approximately 200 of these involved adultery, with a third attributed to the Americans. The cessation of engagements, falling outs with sweethearts, and broken vows and hearts must have been enormous in number. There is no doubt that Brisbane was the Allied love nest during the war. Of the 15,000 marriages involving American servicemen and nationals, 5,000 were at Base Section 3.

Both the Australians and the Americans had resentment, indeed hatred, for most levels of authority. To many of them, the nemesis of authority was the military police, sometimes called provosts. With almost 100,000 servicemen in the city, the maintenance of law and order was hopelessly out of the reach of the civil authorities and military control was necessary. In Brisbane in late 1942, the American Provost had over 800 active personnel; the Australian Provost staff in the area numbered 110. In November, U.S. military law and order was the responsibility of the 814th and 738th MP Battalions based at Whinstanes, a few minutes from the city center, which was the favorite social haunt for all servicemen as the Australian and American canteens were located there.

The typical provost was armed and aggressive, and one historian of the early war years has suggested, "It is probably a fair generalization to say that in the United States, the display of batons and firearms in the hands of police is an effective way of quelling a riot in the States, whereas in Australia it is an effective way of starting one." The numerically inferior Australian provosts carried only a baton, while the Americans, like lawmen from the old Wild West, carried a holstered .45-caliber automatic, a weapon of devastating effectiveness. On many occasions, the weapons created more problems than they solved. It was also a clash of cultures where one country had, to a degree, been established by the use of firearms, while the other was fortunate enough geographically not to have needed to rely on the gun.

Increasing tensions with provosts, servicemen, and civilians in the depressing environment of a gloomy, dark, and crowded Brisbane suggested that a day of reckoning was at hand. The confrontation between Australian and American servicemen that came to be known as the Battle of Brisbane shocked many but surprised few. Scarcely reported at the time and only sporadically since, the incident has largely faded into history. Most cannot remember. A few cannot forget. In hindsight, the significance of the battle is apparent. Not only was it the largest and most violent disturbance between Allies during the war, but it was a significant factor in destroying Brisbane's innocence and an influential factor in the ever-changing relationship between the two Allies.

The Australian soldiers came home to find their city had been turned into an American outpost, and their women keeping time with the Yanks.

And, For those who fail to learn from it, History has a way of repeating itself.

Therefore, Australia was at the "TOP" of the listing for the R&R locations for those of us who, for whatever reason, chose to serve in Vietnam.

We will not, for censorship sake, discuss the women, but the Kangaroo Tail Soup and the high alcohol content "Foster's Lager" Beer will certainly destroy or permanently inhibit brain cell growth and reproduction.

The Australians appear to be "New Orleans"/French Quarter residents at heart!

And, they can easily make those of the French Quarter/Bourbon St. appear as novice's in the enjoyment of life.

[Terry Mauro]

I was involuntarily absent from the forum while this thread developed. Consequently I read through it all in one go, yesterday afternoon my time.

As the rest of my comments shall be flippant, I'll start by saying that my appreciation for John and this forum only grow with time.

IMO, it is primarily John's commitment to free and fair speech about important topics that make this forum a special place. I'm sure he has the overwhelming appreciation of forum participants at a difficult time.

Now for the rest...

The forum reminds me of my schooldays. Teacher comes into class and tells class it has been behaving very badly and there have been complaints. We are all invited to discuss our behaviour, while teacher marks homework and occasionally interjects.

The ensuing squabbles, of course, proves that teacher is correct. Some of the cheekiest members of class delight in helping him make his point, again and again and again.

Meanwhile there are several subplots, some off-topic bickering, occasional flirting and further interjections by an apparently exasperated teacher. Many kids just stare out of the window. Paper aeroplanes are exchanged. There are a few rude noises and a couple of smelly farts.

Yet in the end, an outside observer can perceive the underlying rationality in the strategy employed by John Simkin – an avowed anti-nationalist and anti-imperialist - who subverts the dominant paradigm in plain sight while the rest of us aren't even noticing.

This thread has succeeded where successive generations of peace movements on both sides of the puddle have failed.

It has split the 'Atlantic Alliance' - causing resumption of the mutual distrust and acrimony between Britain and America that was the natural state of affairs before the loathsome Winston Churchill wheedled his way into Downing Street.

Brits accuse Americans of being crass, boorish yobbos. Americans accuse Brits of being slimy, lying hypocrites. Both are essentially correct.

As a self-hating English-speaking Australian with strong anti-American tendencies, I find this very encouraging.

There may yet be a way we can rid ourselves of the American bases and spy facilities that make a mockery of our own 'independence'.

I shall ask Her Majesty the Queen, through His Excellency the Governor General in Canberra, to order the arrest of our quisling Prime Minister and directly instruct occupying Yanks to b+++++ off and return Pine Gap to its original inhabitants.

It would be fun to watch Brits and Americans duke it out, assaulting each other with their vile armaments on their own home turf while giving the Iraqis, Afghanis and Germans a well-deserved rest from their evil doing.

I’ve aleady picked my side in World War Five.

I stand 100% behind the Aboriginals and shall be happy slinging spears at both these uncivilized self-styled 'races'.

The sooner they both 'race' off to Mars, the better for the rest of us.

It will take a few million years for the pre-1788 biodiversity of the Australian continent to recover. The priceless cultural heritage of hundreds of language groups and many millennia of practical experience has been eradicated for ever.

Nevertheless, taking a very long-term view, Australia may eventually recover from Anglo-Saxon invaders and their so-called ‘civilization’.

Looking on the bright side, as far as I'm aware, these paragons of virtue have yet to spray depleted uranium around this land.

One of the benefits of staying inside the protection racket?

************************************************************

Well, look at it this way, Sid. After The American Revolution, when that damned Penal Colony ended up becoming the 13th State, and given the name of "Georgia," the Brits had no where to ship their prisoners anymore. That's when they opened up New Zealand and Australia to catch the overflow. BTW, are you guys still called "subjects," down there?

It's funny, but I was just reading an article in WWII History magazine, and one of the stories I came upon was about The Brisbane Riot. Apparently, the American High Command had set up MacArthur's headquarters there and ended up calling it, Base Section 3. Thousands of American troops began passing through, sometimes swelling the population by 100,000 or more people. The Australian soldiers came home to find their city had been turned into an American outpost, and their women keeping time with the Yanks.

From: Military Heritage Presents

WWII HISTORY www.wwiihistorymagazine.com

INSIGHT

Cultures clashed as large numbers of American troops came to Brisbane, Australia during WWII

By Ken Wright

An excerpt

"Maj. Gen. J.M.A. Durrant, commander of the Australian troops in Queensland, interpreted the ill feeling as resentment toward the U.S. servicemen at what seemed to be their first claim on the accommodations, foodstuffs, and luxuries which, rightly or wrongly, "they believe was accorded to U.S. personnel because their spending power is so much greater than the Australians." There was further reference to the perennial problem of U.S. troops and local women. Durrant made mention of "the conduct of a large section of women folk who permit themselves to be literally 'mauled about' in public, irrespective of the time or place." Resentment toward Americans in England by British servicemen was aggravated by the same sentiment. The situation was not made any easier with the American sttitude of being a law unto themselves in the host countries.

In Brisbane alone, divorce figures for 1942-1943 rose from 100 to almost 400. It was estimated that approximately 200 of these involved adultery, with a third attributed to the Americans. The cessation of engagements, falling outs with sweethearts, and broken vows and hearts must have been enormous in number. There is no doubt that Brisbane was the Allied love nest during the war. Of the 15,000 marriages involving American servicemen and nationals, 5,000 were at Base Section 3.

Both the Australians and the Americans had resentment, indeed hatred, for most levels of authority. To many of them, the nemesis of authority was the military police, sometimes called provosts. With almost 100,000 servicemen in the city, the maintenance of law and order was hopelessly out of the reach of the civil authorities and military control was necessary. In Brisbane in late 1942, the American Provost had over 800 active personnel; the Australian Provost staff in the area numbered 110. In November, U.S. military law and order was the responsibility of the 814th and 738th MP Battalions based at Whinstanes, a few minutes from the city center, which was the favorite social haunt for all servicemen as the Australian and American canteens were located there.

The typical provost was armed and aggressive, and one historian of the early war years has suggested, "It is probably a fair generalization to say that in the United States, the display of batons and firearms in the hands of police is an effective way of quelling a riot in the States, whereas in Australia it is an effective way of starting one." The numerically inferior Australian provosts carried only a baton, while the Americans, like lawmen from the old Wild West, carried a holstered .45-caliber automatic, a weapon of devastating effectiveness. On many occasions, the weapons created more problems than they solved. It was also a clash of cultures where one country had, to a degree, been established by the use of firearms, while the other was fortunate enough geographically not to have needed to rely on the gun.

Increasing tensions with provosts, servicemen, and civilians in the depressing environment of a gloomy, dark, and crowded Brisbane suggested that a day of reckoning was at hand. The confrontation between Australian and American servicemen that came to be known as the Battle of Brisbane shocked many but surprised few. Scarcely reported at the time and only sporadically since, the incident has largely faded into history. Most cannot remember. A few cannot forget. In hindsight, the significance of the battle is apparent. Not only was it the largest and most violent disturbance between Allies during the war, but it was a significant factor in destroying Brisbane's innocence and an influential factor in the ever-changing relationship between the two Allies.

The Australian soldiers came home to find their city had been turned into an American outpost, and their women keeping time with the Yanks.

And, For those who fail to learn from it, History has a way of repeating itself.

Therefore, Australia was at the "TOP" of the listing for the R&R locations for those of us who, for whatever reason, chose to serve in Vietnam.

We will not, for censorship sake, discuss the women, but the Kangaroo Tail Soup and the high alcohol content "Foster's Lager" Beer will certainly destroy or permanently inhibit brain cell growth and reproduction.

The Australians appear to be "New Orleans"/French Quarter residents at heart!

And, they can easily make those of the French Quarter/Bourbon St. appear as novice's in the enjoyment of life.

*********************************************************

"The Australians appear to be "New Orleans"/French Quarter residents at heart!

And, they can easily make those of the French Quarter/Bourbon St. appear as novice's in the enjoyment of life."

And, I for one, can attest to having had the good fortune of knowing and loving some of the most extraordinary, and ruggedly handsome men I have ever had the pleasure to meet, in my life. And, they all hailed from Australia and New Zealand. Yes, they do know how to have a good time!

[John Simkin]

And, I for one, can attest to having had the good fortune of knowing and loving some of the most extraordinary, and ruggedly handsome men I have ever had the pleasure to meet, in my life. And, they all hailed from Australia and New Zealand. Yes, they do know how to have a good time!

We have got some very handsome male members (no pun intended) from Australia. I met them last summer. Maybe you should pay them a visit.

[Terry Mauro]

...it was a significant factor in destroying Brisbane's innocence and an influential factor in the ever-changing relationship between the two Allies.

Hi Terry

Brisbane's innocence? That rich.

When visiting Brisbane, ask a local why 'Boundary St' and 'Vulture St' - two of the oldest major streets in the city - were given their names.

Unless I have been grossly misinformed, this was not a city conceived in innocence, even by Anglo-American standards.

******************************************************

"Unless I have been grossly misinformed, this was not a city conceived in innocence, even by Anglo-American standards."

Well, of course it wasn't, Sid. Neither was the 13th Colony that eventually became the State of Georgia. Yet, the article I excerpted happen to have started out its opening paragraph to read:

"IN 1942, BRISBANE WAS THE THIRD LARGEST CITY IN AUSTRALIA AND THE state capital of Queensland. To many, however, it was more like a big country town than a city, its 340,000 inhabitants living in a quiet, conservative, and isolated atmosphere. Not many people came to visit, and even fewer stayed. Then the Americans arrived. The geographical situation and the presence of General Douglas MacArthur's headquarters drew American servicemen to the city center by the thousands. Australian soldiers [Diggers] were there, too, their numbers increasing as the war effort grew and Brisbane swelled with the influx. By November 1942, it had become a garrison city. It was not even Brisbane anymore. American High Command was calling it Base Section 3."

Therefore, you can see how one may have gotten the impression that Brisbane's innocence had somehow been compromised by the influx of troops, regardless of whether they were Americans, or whether they were Aussies from other parts of the Australian continent.

BTW, I always dug those Australian hats with the left side tacked up, coupled with those oiled leather "long coats" with the caped shoulders. A rugged, yet durable coat apparently adopted by the American cowboys of the "Old West" and which they could be seen sporting in "Hollywood's" interpretation of how the West was won.

Edited February 13, 2007 by Terry Mauro

[Terry Mauro]

And, I for one, can attest to having had the good fortune of knowing and loving some of the most extraordinary, and ruggedly handsome men I have ever had the pleasure to meet, in my life. And, they all hailed from Australia and New Zealand. Yes, they do know how to have a good time!

We have got some very handsome male members (no pun intended) from Australia. I met them last summer. Maybe you should pay them a visit.

*****************************************************

"We have got some very handsome male members (no pun intended) from Australia. I met them last summer. Maybe you should pay them a visit."

In a heartbeat, John. I just need to pay down my VISA cards, after having to use them since losing my medical benefits when they decommissioned my department last July. And, speaking of the rotten state of affairs regarding America's piss-poor excuse for offering universal healthcare to its citzens. Take a look at what truthout.org revealed this morning. Another reason for expatriating this hellhole of a place.

From: "t r u t h o u t" <messenger@truthout.org> Add to Address BookAdd to Address Book Add Mobile Alert

To: tmauro@pacbell.net

Subject: William Fisher | Jim Crow Remembered

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 06:36:40 -0800

William Fisher remembers Jim Crow in the 1950's and examines racial

bias today; Dean Baker on John Edwards' health care plan; Greg Mitchell on

the NYT reporter who got Iraqi WMDs wrong, Michael R. Gordon who is now

highlighting Iran; House Republicans expected to join with Democrats in

Iraq debate; Libby's testimony reveals Cheney's role in selling a

gone-wrong war in Iraq; the New York Times on Bush's warped priorities

sacrificing health care programs; Iraq war veterans are dying while waiting

for care; and more ... Browse our continually updating front page at

http://www.truthout.org

t r u t h o u t | 02.12

William Fisher | Jim Crow Remembered

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/021207J.shtml

William Fisher writes: "...I was a cub reporter for a newspaper in

Central Florida - then known as the state's Bible Belt. One of my beats was

what my managing editor called 'C&C' - cops and courts. They gave me

the grand title of Bureau Chief and sent me twenty miles away to the

county seat. There, covering the local police, the county sheriff and the

county court offered an eye-opening - and terrifying - glimpse into the

abyss of the Jim Crow South. For a young Yankee reporter from New York,

it was a never-to-be-forgotten education."

Dean Baker | Edwards Steps out Front on Health Care

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/021207K.shtml

Dean Baker writes: "For the people who will vote in the Democratic

primaries next year, the Iraq War will rightly be the central issue. On

this topic, it is worth noting that we already have a president who can't

admit that he made a mistake. But, after Iraq, health care will almost

certainly stand out as the most important issue. John Edwards moved the

health-care debate forward last week when he outlined a plan that could

provide universal coverage at an affordable price."

Greg Mitchell | "NYT" Reporter Who Got Iraqi WMDs Wrong Highlights Iran

Claims

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/021207L.shtml

"Saturday's New York Times features an article, posted at the top of

its Web site late Friday, that suggests very strongly that Iran is

supplying the 'deadliest weapon aimed at American troops' in Iraq.... What is

the source of this volatile information? Nothing less than 'civilian

and military officials from a broad range of government agencies.' Sound

pretty convincing? It may be worth noting that the author is Michael R.

Gordon, the same Times reporter who, on his own, or with Judith Miller,

wrote some of the key, and badly misleading or downright inaccurate,

articles about Iraqi WMDs in the run-up to the 2003 invasion," writes

Greg Mitchell.

GOP Expects Defections as House Debates Iraq Resolution

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/021207M.shtml

Three days of intense debate over the Iraq war begins in the House

today, with Democrats planning to propose a narrowly worded rebuke of

President Bush's troop buildup and Republicans girding for broad defections

on their side.

Libby Trial Sheds Light on White House

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/021207N.shtml

Sworn testimony in the perjury trial of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby has

shone a spotlight on White House attempts to sell a gone-wrong war in

Iraq to the nation and Vice President Dick Cheney's aggressive role in the

effort.

The New York Times | Passing the Buck on Health Care

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/021207O.shtml

The New York Times writes: "President Bush's new budget would extend

the administration's warped priorities deep into the realm of federally

supported health care programs. The administration long ago sacrificed

any meaningful domestic agenda to finance tax cuts for the wealthy and

its reckless war in Iraq. The White House's reckless determination to

make the tax cuts permanent is now driving it to slash domestic spending

in health and other vital programs."

Told to Wait, a Marine Dies THIS IS A STORY THAT REALLY BREAKS YOUR HEART [my emphasis, T.M.]

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/021207P.shtml

Jonathan, an Iraq war veteran with two Purple Hearts, neatly packed his

US Marine Corps duffel bag with his sharply creased clothes, a framed

photo of his new baby girl, and a leather-bound Bible and headed out

from the family farm for a 75-mile drive to the Veterans Affairs Medical

Center in St. Cloud, Minnesota. Family and friends had convinced him at

last that the devastating mental wounds he brought home from war,

wounds that triggered severe depression, violent outbursts, and eventually

an uncontrollable desire to kill himself, could not be drowned in

alcohol or treated with the array of anti-anxiety drugs he'd been prescribed.

He wanted to be admitted to a psychiatric ward. But, he was told that

the clinician who prescreened cases like his was unavailable.

VIDEO | Mistrial Could Be End of Watada Case

By Geoffrey Millard, Scott Galindez and Lance Page

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/020807J.shtml

The opposition of Watada and his defense team to the mistrial, declared

by the military judge and eventually endorsed by prosecutors after

their case fell apart, opens the door for a double-jeopardy defense. Double

jeopardy, which forbids a person from being tried twice for the same

crime, does not apply only after a verdict is rendered, but can apply

after a jury is empaneled and witnesses have been called.

[Myra Bronstein]

Host1 then goes on to name a specific American—in front of the entire gathering—with the named guest present (Guest5) who he has a particular issue with. He complains about Guest5 at great length......

I can’t help but think that hosts who sincerely want to remedy an incivility issue would handle problem guests discretely and considerately, by addressing them privately and/or initiating a new policing process wherein they could deal with the problem guests without a public pillory.

I assume that the guest in question is Ashton Gray. I personally did not see the post in which Ashton accused John Simkin of being CIA, but I have no doubt it happened, and that John's beef was legitimate, and deserved to be publicly addressed. ...

I don't believe that's the case. In the thread where John is discussing a person he says accused him of being a CIA agent

("John Simkin: CIA Agent?" @ http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...james+richards) he explicitly rules out Ashton Gray:

That may be, but on THIS thread John wrote:

I have suffered a great deal for preserving your [Ashton Gray's] freedom of speech. In return, you [Ashton Gray] have accused me of defending the CIA. In fact, it seems to me, that you are in fact doing the work of the CIA by frightening off people from talking about their past experiences.

Ah, I see. Thank you for finding it.

[Pat Speer]

By strange coincidence, I happened upon a little-known video the other day in a bargain store, and picked it up for a buck. The movie was from the early 80's I believe and was called "Death of a Soldier". It was a WWII film, based on true events, and told the story of a mentally ill American soldier in Brisbane who goes on a killing spree, strangling 3 women and attacking a few others because he wants their voice. The tensions in the city explode into a gun battle between Aussie and American troops at a railroad station, the gun battle described in Sid's post as the Battle of Brisbane. This is immediately hushed up--bad for morale and all. The story is told from the perspective of the MP official who first has to find the guy, then defend him. When the MPs capture the soldier, the Australian police insist that they have jurisdiction, but MacArthur refuses to give him up. Instead, they give the soldier a show trial, and hang him at the neck. The Australian police are a bit horrified as the soldier is clearly insane. The MP official telling the story also believes the soldier insane, but is prohibited from arguing such at the soldier's trial. MacArthur explains that this is a war and that the soldier needs to die to improve relations between the Aussies and the U.S.--that the Aussies need to be shown that U.S. does not coddle bad behavior on the part of its soldiers. Thus, the title: Death of a Soldier. The real-life MP official was a consultant on the film.

[Paul Rigby]

It's how the weak and defenseless are treated in ones own back yard that defines the strength of a nation or a people. It's not the size of its arsenal or the roar of tribal approbation that defines its strength.

Beautifully put. If you ever run for office - I know, unlikely - let me know.

Paul

[Ashton Gray]

I disagree that there is nothing wrong about having pride in one’s own country.

My online dictionary defines pride as:

1. A sense of one's own proper dignity or value; self-respect.

2. Pleasure or satisfaction taken in an achievement, possession, or association: parental pride.

3. Arrogant or disdainful conduct or treatment; haughtiness.

4.

a. A cause or source of pleasure or satisfaction; the best of a group or class: These soldiers were their country's pride.

b. The most successful or thriving condition; prime: the pride of youth.

Yes, and "ass" has several definitions, too. Anyone who can't tell the difference between them should never attempt to kiss a donkey.

Ashton

[John Simkin]

And, I for one, can attest to having had the good fortune of knowing and loving some of the most extraordinary, and ruggedly handsome men I have ever had the pleasure to meet, in my life. And, they all hailed from Australia and New Zealand. Yes, they do know how to have a good time!

We have got some very handsome male members (no pun intended) from Australia. I met them last summer. Maybe you should pay them a visit.

*****************************************************

"We have got some very handsome male members (no pun intended) from Australia. I met them last summer. Maybe you should pay them a visit."

In a heartbeat, John. I just need to pay down my VISA cards, after having to use them since losing my medical benefits when they decommissioned my department last July. And, speaking of the rotten state of affairs regarding America's piss-poor excuse for offering universal healthcare to its citzens. Take a look at what truthout.org revealed this morning. Another reason for expatriating this hellhole of a place.

My wife has been seriously ill for the last six months. The treatment she has received from our National Health Service has been fantastic. When you deal with NHS doctors, you never feel that your treatment is being influenced by how much it costs. Studies show that private hospitals are guilty of a great deal of over-treatment. This is very important when you are seriously ill. NHS staff have very little difficulty showing they really care about your welfare. The fact that so many of the staff are immigrants does a great deal for race-relations in the UK.

All this comes free at the point of treatment. This includes a day spent at the local hospice - the place where she will eventually end her days. All though most NHS staff are full-time employees, many are volunteers. This helps to provide a sense of community responsibility. For example, 80% of the staff at the hospice provide their expertise free of charge. Each cancer patient is assigned a specialist nurse. Judith’s nurse is in her 70s. However, as she told me, she feels that she has a moral responsibility to continue working while her skills are needed.

Judith not only gets free treatment. She is paid a generous allowance to pay for things she no longer can do for herself.

As the man, Aneurin Bevan, who introduced the NHS in 1948, pointed out, this is socialism in action. The United States government was right when it described the NHS as “socialized medicine”. Not only that, they put the post-war Labour government under economic pressure to withdraw its proposals. The CIA actually funnelled money to senior members of the party in order to persuade them to change their policies. The CIA also told MI5 that people like Bevan were in the pay of the Soviet Union.

The Conservative Party, the British Medical Association and the private insurance companies, opposed the introduction of the NHS in the same way that they had undermined attempts by David Lloyd George to introduce a primitive welfare state after the First World War. Lloyd George told them he was going to build a “land fit for heroes”. Of course he didn’t and those who survived the war were worse off than they had been before the war.

In 1945 the British people decided they would not be fooled again. Even though he was considered the main figure in the UK for winning the war, Winston Churchill led the Conservative Party to its largest defeat in history. Churchill was not helped by claiming that Labour plans for higher taxes on the rich, the welfare state, the nationalization of key industries, the break-up of the British Empire, were examples of “Soviet style communism”. He even went as far to suggest that the Labour Party would form some-sort of “Gestapo” organization to ensure these reforms were successful.

The UK is not the only country with socialized medicine. In fact, virtually every advanced country has a similar system. Any country that introduces such a system will never be able to take it away. It is one subject that will get the British masses onto the streets in order to defend what they have gained. At the moment there are massive demonstrations because the government is threatening to close our local hospital.

The events of the early 20th century convinced the British people that the ruling-classes looked after their own. They did not need a National Health Service because they could afford to pay the necessary insurance premiums in order to get the best treatment possible. This is a lesson that every county in the advanced world has learnt. It is only a matter of time before the Americans wake up and start demanding “socialized medicine”.

[Pat Speer]

The UK is not the only country with socialized medicine. In fact, virtually every advanced country has a similar system. Any country that introduces such a system will never be able to take it away. It is one subject that will get the British masses onto the streets in order to defend what they have gained. At the moment there are massive demonstrations because the government is threatening to close our local hospital.

The events of the early 20th century convinced the British people that the ruling-classes looked after their own. They did not need a National Health Service because they could afford to pay the necessary insurance premiums in order to get the best treatment possible. This is a lesson that every county in the advanced world has learnt. It is only a matter of time before the Americans wake up and start demanding “socialized medicine”.

This is really sad news about your wife, John. I wish you all the best.

My mother was a nurse who worked in a hospice for years. Now I live across the street from it. Of course, the hospital closed a few years back and is now being torn down by a wrecking ball. I live in a rapidly growing area where half the hospitals have closed. My sister in law was head delivery nurse in a hospital where she regularly delivered babies in the hall. Health care in the U.S. is a total disaster.

I'm glad, for your sake, that you have the NHS.