Behaviour of Members

[Guest]

In this thread, post numbers: 22, 28, 199.

I complain very pointedly in those posts. I take the direct, public, overt route in my objections to behavior I feel is over the line.

I have read these posts again and I am sorry you have chosen to take offence at comments which describe the day to day realities of moderating this forum.

Perhaps we can now move on?

[Evan Burton]

I have read these posts again and I am sorry you have chosen to take offence at comments which describe the day to day realities of moderating this forum.

Perhaps we can now move on?

I think that's a good idea.

All societies have members which bring great credit upon their society, and those which attract disrepute. I suppose it's in the nature of being fallible humans.

How about we wipe the slate clean, and start afresh?

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

All societies have members which bring great credit upon their society, and those which attract disrepute. I suppose it's in the nature of being fallible humans.

How about we wipe the slate clean, and start afresh?

A sterling suggestion.

In the decade that I've been posting to various JFK forums, I've witnessed much uncouth behaviour, flame wars over trifles, namecalling and puffy-chested posturing. There has been some of that in this forum as well, but it has usually been brief and over matters of some substance.

However, this thread has become a pathetic display of thin-skinned vituperation and ill-considered nationalistic arrogance.

If John Simkin maintains that virtually all complaints are about US Forum members, and are likewise nearly always initiated by other US Forum members, I have enough respect for his honesty to take that as a fact. Those who do not share that faith in John's honesty should perhaps relocate to other forums where their own excesses are more likely to be tolerated. If they choose to stay, perhaps they'd be courteous enough to keep their self-righteous comments to themselves. Speaking only for myself, I am sick to the eye teeth with complaints about our hosts who, in my view, have been nothing but courteous in their attempts to keep the level of bile to a minimum.

Moreover, those who appear to have taken the greatest ill-considered umbrage over our hosts' comments have nonetheless used this thread as an opportunity to display precisely the kind of arrogant sanctimony that first led to John Simkin's comments, in his bid to have Forum members police themselves. Given that this appeal from our host has demonstrably been ignored, we now have moderators to conduct that policing. That this has become necessary is a poor reflection on those who cannot resist a cheap shot at every turn.

Fifteen forum pages devoted to this topic is fourteen pages too many.

If we are all finished with our petty pissing and moaning over perceived slights against our respective nationalities, can we instead now resume devoting that vital energy to the topic that led us all here, the assassination of the 35th President of the United States?

If, instead, you insist upon continuing with your self-important bickering over comments which you have misconstrued as a slight against your nation, please go elsewhere. Your are contributing nothing but unpleasantness and, worse by far, you are an intolerably tedious bore.

[Charles Black]

Andy

Why do you insist on continuing to "talk down" to all Americans ? How does "degrading Americans" relate to taking offence "...at comments which describe the day to day realities of moderating this forum".

You seem to think that there are not probably a great many persons on this forum, who have for a great many years, been positioned to handle a hundred fold, the difficulty of the problem of the "realities of moderating this forum"? When it comes to problems of persons handling life and death decisions, and other decisions which affect the lives of many corporate employees and the welfare and future of their families.......the difficulties of moderating this forum may seem to many to be pretty insignificant.

If this forum was not furthering "your" best interests, your presence would not be here. This is not "self sacrifice" on your part, and I hope that there is no one here who is so extraordinarily naive to believe that it is.

Again, you address this forum as if we were a group of turnips that "fell off the truck". I personally don't know you, but I know enough to realize that you are not one that could handle the stress of "real world problems of any magnitude". What you need to learn will not come from a book.

DENIAL IS THE GREATEST OBSTACLE TO TRUTH, TRUST AND CLARITY ! It is only with truth, trust and clarity that can any major problem be successfully overcome

Charlie Black

[Myra Bronstein]

All societies have members which bring great credit upon their society, and those which attract disrepute. I suppose it's in the nature of being fallible humans.

How about we wipe the slate clean, and start afresh?

A sterling suggestion.

In the decade that I've been posting to various JFK forums, I've witnessed much uncouth behaviour, flame wars over trifles, namecalling and puffy-chested posturing. There has been some of that in this forum as well, but it has usually been brief and over matters of some substance.

However, this thread has become a pathetic display of thin-skinned vituperation and ill-considered nationalistic arrogance.

If John Simkin maintains that virtually all complaints are about US Forum members, and are likewise nearly always initiated by other US Forum members, I have enough respect for his honesty to take that as a fact. Those who do not share that faith in John's honesty should perhaps relocate to other forums where their own excesses are more likely to be tolerated. If they choose to stay, perhaps they'd be courteous enough to keep their self-righteous comments to themselves. Speaking only for myself, I am sick to the eye teeth with complaints about our hosts who, in my view, have been nothing but courteous in their attempts to keep the level of bile to a minimum.

Moreover, those who appear to have taken the greatest ill-considered umbrage over our hosts' comments have nonetheless used this thread as an opportunity to display precisely the kind of arrogant sanctimony that first led to John Simkin's comments, in his bid to have Forum members police themselves. Given that this appeal from our host has demonstrably been ignored, we now have moderators to conduct that policing. That this has become necessary is a poor reflection on those who cannot resist a cheap shot at every turn.

Fifteen forum pages devoted to this topic is fourteen pages too many.

If we are all finished with our petty pissing and moaning over perceived slights against our respective nationalities, can we instead now resume devoting that vital energy to the topic that led us all here, the assassination of the 35th President of the United States?

If, instead, you insist upon continuing with your self-important bickering over comments which you have misconstrued as a slight against your nation, please go elsewhere. Your are contributing nothing but unpleasantness and, worse by far, you are an intolerably tedious bore.

Duly noted. And disregarded. If you're bored with a thread then ignore it--Mister Mystery Guy from Canada. No one's forcing you to read this. You can instead opt to read any of the lively ongoing threads on "the topic that led us all here" instead of opting to kick this thread Northward by posting demands that the thread go Southward.

[Charles Black]

Robert Charles

Has it occurred to you that people have been purposely and repeatedly degraded and that your advice is to "accept those degradations or go away"?

This REALLY has little to do with NATIONALISM and very much to do with "universal manners between mutually respectful human beings".

If I am removed from this forum, as I don't doubt that I will be, it will be for two reasons only :

1) My sincere statements of what I, and I think others, see as truth. Not my dergradation of any person on this forum.

2) The arrogance which necessarily prevents John and Andy from admitting that they have both acted and spoken in an ungentlemanly manner to a segment of this forum....repeatedly.

Robert Charles, if your lack of self respect would allow you to behave in such a manner, I would lose a great deal of respect for someone whose postings have, for the most part, been brilliant.

Charlie Black

[Guest Mark Valenti]

This Forum was created by John and Andy. In a sense, it is their home, into which they've invited us.

So perhaps a decent, thoughtful approach to our relations with our hosts would be to err on the side of courtesy and respect. You lose nothing - not face, not position, not national allegiance, not patriotic pride - and you possibly gain a continuing relationship which can add a great deal to your intellectual life.

If you take umbrage at perceived slights - and I underline perceived because, as an American, I was not in the slightest harmed by their words - maybe you could consider absorbing the blow and then, yes, moving on.

[Evan Burton]

Charles,

As moderators, what can we do to help you?

What sort of outcome would you like to see resulting from the points you have raised?

Evan

[Myra Bronstein]

This Forum was created by John and Andy. In a sense, it is their home, into which they've invited us.

So perhaps a decent, thoughtful approach to our relations with our hosts would be to err on the side of courtesy and respect. You lose nothing - not face, not position, not national allegiance, not patriotic pride - and you possibly gain a continuing relationship which can add a great deal to your intellectual life.

If you take umbrage at perceived slights - and I underline perceived because, as an American, I was not in the slightest harmed by their words - maybe you could consider absorbing the blow and then, yes, moving on.

See! Now that's what I'm talkin' about. Uplifting. You're great Mark. Thank you. You've chided me in a couple of threads and you always do it in thoughtful and considerate way I can respect. The fact remains that just because you weren't offended doesn't mean it wasn't offensive, but hey--that's a niggling detail.

I'm all about movin' on. If there wasn't a moveon.org I'd start one! Besides, there are far more interesting threads here.

[Dawn Meredith]

All societies have members which bring great credit upon their society, and those which attract disrepute. I suppose it's in the nature of being fallible humans.

How about we wipe the slate clean, and start afresh?

A sterling suggestion.

In the decade that I've been posting to various JFK forums, I've witnessed much uncouth behaviour, flame wars over trifles, namecalling and puffy-chested posturing. There has been some of that in this forum as well, but it has usually been brief and over matters of some substance.

However, this thread has become a pathetic display of thin-skinned vituperation and ill-considered nationalistic arrogance.

If John Simkin maintains that virtually all complaints are about US Forum members, and are likewise nearly always initiated by other US Forum members, I have enough respect for his honesty to take that as a fact. Those who do not share that faith in John's honesty should perhaps relocate to other forums where their own excesses are more likely to be tolerated. If they choose to stay, perhaps they'd be courteous enough to keep their self-righteous comments to themselves. Speaking only for myself, I am sick to the eye teeth with complaints about our hosts who, in my view, have been nothing but courteous in their attempts to keep the level of bile to a minimum.

Moreover, those who appear to have taken the greatest ill-considered umbrage over our hosts' comments have nonetheless used this thread as an opportunity to display precisely the kind of arrogant sanctimony that first led to John Simkin's comments, in his bid to have Forum members police themselves. Given that this appeal from our host has demonstrably been ignored, we now have moderators to conduct that policing. That this has become necessary is a poor reflection on those who cannot resist a cheap shot at every turn.

Fifteen forum pages devoted to this topic is fourteen pages too many.

If we are all finished with our petty pissing and moaning over perceived slights against our respective nationalities, can we instead now resume devoting that vital energy to the topic that led us all here, the assassination of the 35th President of the United States?

If, instead, you insist upon continuing with your self-important bickering over comments which you have misconstrued as a slight against your nation, please go elsewhere. Your are contributing nothing but unpleasantness and, worse by far, you are an intolerably tedious bore.

As always Robert, excellent advice.

Dawn

[Stan Wilbourne]

Myra, with all sincerity, I say you are like the soft summer breeze. Always refreshing.

It would be my guess that those who have you in their daily lives consider themselves to be most fortunate.

[Myra Bronstein]

Myra, with all sincerity, I say you are like the soft summer breeze. Always refreshing.

It would be my guess that those who have you in their daily lives consider themselves to be most fortunate.

Well... this is most unexpected. Thank you Stan.

Just think, if I had really moved on then I wouldn't have been lurking in this thread and would have missed your great post.

And I say to you in all sincerity--you're a natty dresser.

Also, I appreciate your high-level perspective on the case we're all here to discuss. Who bought the bullets rather than who fired the bullets.

[John Simkin]

In the decade that I've been posting to various JFK forums, I've witnessed much uncouth behaviour, flame wars over trifles, namecalling and puffy-chested posturing. There has been some of that in this forum as well, but it has usually been brief and over matters of some substance.

However, this thread has become a pathetic display of thin-skinned vituperation and ill-considered nationalistic arrogance.

If John Simkin maintains that virtually all complaints are about US Forum members, and are likewise nearly always initiated by other US Forum members, I have enough respect for his honesty to take that as a fact. Those who do not share that faith in John's honesty should perhaps relocate to other forums where their own excesses are more likely to be tolerated. If they choose to stay, perhaps they'd be courteous enough to keep their self-righteous comments to themselves. Speaking only for myself, I am sick to the eye teeth with complaints about our hosts who, in my view, have been nothing but courteous in their attempts to keep the level of bile to a minimum.

Moreover, those who appear to have taken the greatest ill-considered umbrage over our hosts' comments have nonetheless used this thread as an opportunity to display precisely the kind of arrogant sanctimony that first led to John Simkin's comments, in his bid to have Forum members police themselves. Given that this appeal from our host has demonstrably been ignored, we now have moderators to conduct that policing. That this has become necessary is a poor reflection on those who cannot resist a cheap shot at every turn.

Fifteen forum pages devoted to this topic is fourteen pages too many.

If we are all finished with our petty pissing and moaning over perceived slights against our respective nationalities, can we instead now resume devoting that vital energy to the topic that led us all here, the assassination of the 35th President of the United States?

If, instead, you insist upon continuing with your self-important bickering over comments which you have misconstrued as a slight against your nation, please go elsewhere. Your are contributing nothing but unpleasantness and, worse by far, you are an intolerably tedious bore.

Thank you Robert for your support. The most hurtful factor about this thread is that other members have been unwilling to state that they believe the administrators about the background to this dispute. It is like you are receiving a vote of no confidence. Maybe members fear that if they post they will be the next target for Charles and Myra. However, cowardice is no real defence.

Even more distressing is the number of page impressions this thread has received. For example, the excellent interview with Sterling Seagrave, started before this thread, has been looked at by only 274 people whereas this thread has received 4740 visitors.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=9196

I once received a very disturbing email a little while ago. They told me that they were not members and had no interest in posting on the forum. Nor were they interested in education or political conspiracies. They only visited in order to see people having a go at each other. To them it was like watching “Big Brother” (a UK television reality show).

As for our American friends, you are welcome to say what you like about the British. I will not spend anytime at all defending us as a race, although I will intervene to defend individuals who are being unfairly criticised. Nationalism repulses me. Only religion has caused more wars than nationalism. I consider myself a citizen of the world. My only concern is to fight injustice, lies, oppression and inequality, from wherever it comes.

[John Dolva]

John, since you have expressed a wish for more expression of support I have no hesitation of doing so. I've done so many times in the past and generally feel once should be enough. Rest assured that if I saw reason to change that I would say so. So having expressed it once more, hopefully it is now known that only a change of mind on that issue will be a followup. Absense of a followup is to be taken as no change in that attitude. I generally think members and visitors have brains and see most clearly what is going on and voluminous vitriol does no more than tell us of the person engaging in it and little of the persons it is directed at.

"Nationalism repulses me....I consider myself a citizen of the world. My only concern is to fight injustice, lies, oppression and inequality, from wherever it comes." Hear, hear.

_______________

At the same time, and not meant in the way these anonymous correspondents express it, Big Brother, wherever found needs to be, and needs to know that little brother is watching. It's a duty. And, again, absence of comment (on my part, on this issue) means approval.

Edited February 11, 2007 by John Dolva

[Ashton Gray]

Even more distressing is the number of page impressions this thread has received. For example, the excellent interview with Sterling Seagrave, started before this thread, has been looked at by only 274 people whereas this thread has received 4740 visitors.

There are many other topical threads, containing a great deal of important data not getting sufficient exposure elsewhere, that have received thousands of page impressions, though. These forums are a vital world force, and a vital communication line for truths that elsewhere are heavily suppressed.

I once received a very disturbing email a little while ago. They told me that they were not members and had no interest in posting on the forum. Nor were they interested in education or political conspiracies. They only visited in order to see people having a go at each other. To them it was like watching “Big Brother” (a UK television reality show).

Although people who write such email can make it seem like they are in the majority, they only make up about 20% of the population at most. The 80% are responsible and interested and decent. In a position like you and Andy are in, it's extremely easy to become overwhelmed with the traffic from and impressions made by the 20%. Keep your eye on the purpose and your hand in support of the 80% who care about the issues raised here.

Nationalism repulses me. Only religion has caused more wars than nationalism. I consider myself a citizen of the world.

As are we all. Some have yet to realize it. At the same time, there is nothing inherently wrong with pride in one's nation, any more than there is anything wrong with pride in one's family, community, school, or even church. Fanaticism in any of those types of groups, to the denigration or suppression or harm of other such groups, is simply fanaticism, and is ugly wherever it's found.

My only concern is to fight injustice, lies, oppression and inequality, from wherever it comes.

The forums are playing a significant role in doing just that. Don't let the 20% convince you otherwise.

Ashton