Behaviour of Members

[J. Raymond Carroll]

This is a lesson that every country in the advanced world has learnt. It is only a matter of time before the Americans wake up and start demanding “socialized medicine”.

It may be appropriate here to recall that Lee Oswald was an early proponent of socialized medicine in the U.S. In fact he specifically mentioned the British system as a model. Of course he never got a fair hearing on this or any other issue.

Ted Kennedy has long been a champion of "Universal Health Care," but every major proposal has so far been shot down by powerful vested interests.

Some States, notably Massachusets, are making progress, and the election of Eliot Spitzer as Governor seems to bode well for New York. Of course the new Democratic majority in Congress has raised hopes for significant progress.

Yet the U.S. remains way behind the developed world and many baby boomers face the risk of bankruptcy brought on by medical bills. For those who have insurance or can otherwise afford it, though, the quality of medical care available here is second to none.

[Charles Black]

Hello John

I wish you and your family our prayers for the strength which will be needed in this most trying of times. I agree with you more than I could ever express regarding the necessity of health care.

My Mother, who up until her last days was willing to so often even "blindly support" me, passed last week after a long and painful illness. Even with Medicare for the elderly, which we do have here, it was a very long, tearfully trying and very expensive affair. I too will praise Hospice for the care and empathy which they provided to both my Mother and my family. As a matter of fact, one telephoned me last night and sincerely asked if their was anything that she could assist me with.

The health care efforts in this country have sadly not progressed. As a matter of fact I mentioned on another forum, a very awakening experience a few weeks ago, which occurred while I was having a prescription filled at the druggist. Two elderly gentlemen ahead of me "both" asked that their individual prescriptions be only half filled. I though it was strange but did not give it much thought until later while driving home.... it

finally entered my mind, the "why" of it! I suppose these separate gentlemen were forced to make what to them may have been not a unique decision. They were no doubt forced to make the decision, in order to stay alive, whether they should buy food or drugs. I found this an outrage.

Later that same evening, I was watching two talking heads on the evening news, discussing whether we should or should not spend hundreds of billions of dollars, to remain in Iraq and kill some more people. I almost became physically ill. We have no doubt been killing millions of our own by refusing to spend a penny here on the poor and aged.

It certainly seems as if we have very misguided values.....if we have any at all.

I won't go on. Again I do send my families prayers for you and yours.

Charlie Black

[Len Colby]

Thanks, Ashton, for the mention of Darwin. I wish there was a venue here

to discuss the Darwinism cult. It is one of the greatest conspiracies ever

perpetrated. Any truly thinking person ought to be able to see through the

Theory of Mutation, as I prefer to call the absurd "science" presented in

our schools as truth when it is no more than a unfinished theory.

Sure some "evolution" happens...but according to Darwin and his cultists,

ALL LIFE THAT EXISTS HAPPENED BY CHANCE THROUGH MUTATION.

Absurd.

Jack

Why does this not surprise me, too much? At first I though you were joking but after your second post it seems you weren't.

Perhaps you should get in touch with Fetzer over this perhaps he can explain the Theory of Evolution which you obviously don't understand. Every biologist in the world save one belong to the so called cult as does every other scientist in related fields except one other. Both happen to be fundamentalist Christians.

“I wish there was a venue here to discuss the Darwinism cult.”

Your wish (In this case at least) is my command and has been granted I started a thread for you to present your evidence.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st=0#entry93918

Edited February 14, 2007 by Len Colby

[Terry Mauro]

And, I for one, can attest to having had the good fortune of knowing and loving some of the most extraordinary, and ruggedly handsome men I have ever had the pleasure to meet, in my life. And, they all hailed from Australia and New Zealand. Yes, they do know how to have a good time!

We have got some very handsome male members (no pun intended) from Australia. I met them last summer. Maybe you should pay them a visit.

*****************************************************

"We have got some very handsome male members (no pun intended) from Australia. I met them last summer. Maybe you should pay them a visit."

In a heartbeat, John. I just need to pay down my VISA cards, after having to use them since losing my medical benefits when they decommissioned my department last July. And, speaking of the rotten state of affairs regarding America's piss-poor excuse for offering universal healthcare to its citzens. Take a look at what truthout.org revealed this morning. Another reason for expatriating this hellhole of a place.

My wife has been seriously ill for the last six months. The treatment she has received from our National Health Service has been fantastic. When you deal with NHS doctors, you never feel that your treatment is being influenced by how much it costs. Studies show that private hospitals are guilty of a great deal of over-treatment. This is very important when you are seriously ill. NHS staff have very little difficulty showing they really care about your welfare. The fact that so many of the staff are immigrants does a great deal for race-relations in the UK.

All this comes free at the point of treatment. This includes a day spent at the local hospice - the place where she will eventually end her days. All though most NHS staff are full-time employees, many are volunteers. This helps to provide a sense of community responsibility. For example, 80% of the staff at the hospice provide their expertise free of charge. Each cancer patient is assigned a specialist nurse. Judith’s nurse is in her 70s. However, as she told me, she feels that she has a moral responsibility to continue working while her skills are needed.

Judith not only gets free treatment. She is paid a generous allowance to pay for things she no longer can do for herself.

As the man, Aneurin Bevan, who introduced the NHS in 1948, pointed out, this is socialism in action. The United States government was right when it described the NHS as “socialized medicine”. Not only that, they put the post-war Labour government under economic pressure to withdraw its proposals. The CIA actually funnelled money to senior members of the party in order to persuade them to change their policies. The CIA also told MI5 that people like Bevan were in the pay of the Soviet Union.

The Conservative Party, the British Medical Association and the private insurance companies, opposed the introduction of the NHS in the same way that they had undermined attempts by David Lloyd George to introduce a primitive welfare state after the First World War. Lloyd George told them he was going to build a “land fit for heroes”. Of course he didn’t and those who survived the war were worse off than they had been before the war.

In 1945 the British people decided they would not be fooled again. Even though he was considered the main figure in the UK for winning the war, Winston Churchill led the Conservative Party to its largest defeat in history. Churchill was not helped by claiming that Labour plans for higher taxes on the rich, the welfare state, the nationalization of key industries, the break-up of the British Empire, were examples of “Soviet style communism”. He even went as far to suggest that the Labour Party would form some-sort of “Gestapo” organization to ensure these reforms were successful.

The UK is not the only country with socialized medicine. In fact, virtually every advanced country has a similar system. Any country that introduces such a system will never be able to take it away. It is one subject that will get the British masses onto the streets in order to defend what they have gained. At the moment there are massive demonstrations because the government is threatening to close our local hospital.

The events of the early 20th century convinced the British people that the ruling-classes looked after their own. They did not need a National Health Service because they could afford to pay the necessary insurance premiums in order to get the best treatment possible. This is a lesson that every county in the advanced world has learnt. It is only a matter of time before the Americans wake up and start demanding “socialized medicine”.

**********************************************************

And, my heart goes out to you, John. I have held many a hand at bedside, and comforted many a loved one during this final journey, right through and including, the eulogy. My thirty year career has been spent in the diagnostic imaging departments of medical centers. This is where the staging of these, and other diseases take place in conjunction with the Oncology Department.

What I found heart-warming was the fact that Judith's nurse was allowed to carry on doing the work she loves, into her seventies. Here in the States, experience and expertise, no matter how many accolades you may have received for a job well done, nor however high esteem you've may have been held during your career, when you've passed the age of sixty, you're considered to be a medical liability to whatever insurance company may be supplying your employers with coverage.

They would much rather hire inexperienced younger rookies, regardless of how limited or however inadequately trained or prepared they've come into the field, simply because they'll be able to cover their benefits much more cheaply than they would for an older employee. They would rather overlook the expense of having to train, and in most cases, re-train these new hirees, at a higher salary, I might add, than their older, loyal employee was making. Or, they would prefer to shut down one of their departments and contract their patients out to an off-site facility, where they're forced to pay even more for a procedure to be done, because in all actuality, they're renting out the machine and the tech to perform that study, at the off-site facility's rate. Just to avoid having to pay medical benefits to an older employee, who is then relegated to a per diem status. Then, try to find a facility that'll give you a thirty-two hour work week, which might put you at part-time status, and eligible for benefits. Virtually impossible. I've offered to work for less pay per hour just to be able to procure a thirty-two work week with benefits. No dice. This was something unheard of even twenty-five years ago, but since the neo-con revolution of 1994, the "right to work" policy has been firmly entrenched in every medical center's employee manual I've come across. And, California used to be a state that was known for its "Fair Labor Laws." I plan to work until I'm eighty, but it would sure be nice to work in a country where your worth is based upon your ability to continue to grow within your sphere of experience. Where your skills and task adeptness are still measured to give you the chance to prove you still have the viability and the capability to continue doing what you do best.

If you hear of any Nuclear Medicine Technology jobs available over there, I do hold all major licenses and certifications required by American law. I'd be willing to sit for any boards the UK required, as well.

I wish you and Judith, all the very best, John.

With warmest regards,

Ter

[William O'Neil]

In a lot of ways, we are our own worst enemies.........

[David G. Healy]

'John Simkin' wrote:

My wife has been seriously ill for the last six months. The treatment she has received from our National Health Service has been fantastic. When you deal with NHS doctors, you never feel that your treatment is being influenced by how much it costs. Studies show that private hospitals are guilty of a great deal of over-treatment. This is very important when you are seriously ill. NHS staff have very little difficulty showing they really care about your welfare. The fact that so many of the staff are immigrants does a great deal for race-relations in the UK.

[...]

_______________________

John,

Prayers sent across the way - we're currently going through *chemo* therapy with a family member. I'm not sure what's worse, the condition,

or the CURE!

David Healy

[Thomas H. Purvis]

'John Simkin' wrote:

My wife has been seriously ill for the last six months. The treatment she has received from our National Health Service has been fantastic. When you deal with NHS doctors, you never feel that your treatment is being influenced by how much it costs. Studies show that private hospitals are guilty of a great deal of over-treatment. This is very important when you are seriously ill. NHS staff have very little difficulty showing they really care about your welfare. The fact that so many of the staff are immigrants does a great deal for race-relations in the UK.

[...]

_______________________

John,

Prayers sent across the way - we're currently going through *chemo* therapy with a family member. I'm not sure what's worse, the condition,

or the CURE!

David Healy

My younger brother experienced a non-operable brain tumor at age 17 and was thereafter given radiation treatment at Ochsner's in New Orleans.

After three such treatments, the only thing left was "chemo" which was still experimental at the time.

He was treated at the University Hospital in Birmingham, AL, and although the treatments initially did some good, they caused a massive hemmorage of the brain, which we were advised was a possibility.

Hopefully, his death, in some way, has lead to the improvements in radiation therapy as well as chemo.

RIP Mike!

My support to any who have family who must undergo these types of treatments.

[William O'Neil]

My post was referring to the previous topic , hope nobody thought I was commenting on patient care!

[Paul Rigby]

In 1945 the British people decided they would not be fooled again. Even though he was considered the main figure in the UK for winning the war, Winston Churchill led the Conservative Party to its largest defeat in history. Churchill was not helped by claiming that Labour plans for higher taxes on the rich, the welfare state, the nationalization of key industries, the break-up of the British Empire, were examples of “Soviet style communism”. He even went as far to suggest that the Labour Party would form some-sort of “Gestapo” organization to ensure these reforms were successful.

John,

Wasn't the old fraud Churchill booed as he toured the East End during the Blitz? Presumably British voters in 1945 hadn't forgotten his lavish pre-war praise of Mussolini, Hitler, and Franco. For documentation, see "Winston Churchill's Untold, Uncensored Story Reveals Him Pro-Hitler, Mussolini, Franco," In Fact, (No. 399, Vol XVII, No. 9), May 31, 1948, pp.1-4.

In issue 395 (Vol XVII, No. 5) of In Fact, the lead story bore the title "Medical Lobby's Bribe Offer to Cartoonists Spotlights New Case of Press War Against US Health," May 3, 1948, pp.1-4. Plus ca change...

Best to you and your wife,

Paul

[Guest John Gillespie]

Excellent posts Myra

It recently struck me while I was reading of the self proclaimed "absence of pride" shared among three or four of the forum elite....how monstrously absurd are some of these posts. ABSENCE OF PRIDE ?

How can there be absence of pride in posts that are overflowing with ARROGANCE.

My question is arrogance of what ? It is as if some seem to think that I should be foolish enough to wish to MIMIC them !

Instead of a JFK research debate, this daily sounds more like a lecture from MRS. MANNERS... a long ago TV hostess.

I also feel a little differently regarding what "I Owe" the hosts of this forum. I feel that I owe them no more or no less than I owe any other individual on this forum or that which they owe me.

Am I really expected to be so culturally well mannered that I am to accept SLANDER....and told that I am to accept it because the slanderers are "picking up the tab?" I am expected to prostitute myself to prove that I am one of the jolly good old chaps ?

My only SIN is one of Omission ! I refuse to pretend to agree with statements that hold no truth, and are meant to enrage thru malicious slander, that is every bit as venomous as abuse of race or gender.

I wouldn't submit to this if you were going to boot me off the face of the earth....much less this forum ! I realize that I have entered a gunfight armed with a pen knife. I have well understood the not so muffled threats.

Charlie Black

________________________________________

Wow!

You may be armed only with a pen knife but not to worry, Charlie. The mudslingers and wannabe gunslingers are firing blanks, as usual. You just flashed your black belt kick and we watched as they scurried to the hedges.

I won't try to embellish your post as it would be futile to try. But allow me to observe that this topic and its subsequent threads attracted these self-righteous rats like peanut butter. It is a chance for them to posture and they can't resist. Hypocritically but certainly in character, they rail against their definition of misbehavior even as we see them spew even more venom than usual . That's because now they have permission. Notice how the same hackers attacked the same members they've been attacking all along, only this time with a kind of license.

It was all predictable, so pathetically predictable.

Nice Work,

JG

Edited February 14, 2007 by John Gillespie

[John Dolva]

Pride so fragile that it needs such staunch defense or adamant justification is a very, very peculiar thing indeed.

Really very funny if it isn't meant seriously. Perhaps it's really a tarnished, even crumbling, ego that is vigorously being buffed? If so, isn't that a futile endeavour. It's a treadmill leading nowhere. I don't get it. Look around, do you believe that those not huffing and puffing are somehow feeling inferior or disposessed?

[John Simkin]

I won't try to embellish your post as it would be futile to try. But allow me to observe that this topic and its subsequent threads attracted these self-righteous rats like peanut butter. It is a chance for them to posture and they can't resist. Hypocritically but certainly in character, they rail against their definition of misbehavior even as we see them spew even more venom than usual . That's because now they have permission. Notice how the same hackers attacked the same members they've been attacking all along, only this time with a kind of license.

I find the term "self-righteous rats" offensive. It is also not acceptable to suggest that fellow members are hypocrites. Nor does it add very much to the debate on nationalism. One of the reasons I did not respond to Charles' latest comments about nationalism is that I could not grasp the points he was making. I find John's statement even more confusing. It would help if you related your comments to actual events in history. Then it would be clear what points you were making.