David Lifton strikes paydirt in old radio tapes

[Jack White]

The long and short of it, IMO, is that this thread does do not support Z film alteration theory. Moorman saw something happen with JFK's body or she wouldn't say the next day, to FBI agents, that "he sort of jumped" at the time of the head shot (not previously when his elbows went up). What I'm sure she saw, imperfectly through a camera viewfinder, is what we see unobstructed from a different angle in the Z film.

Perhaps someone could get Moorman's own opinion of what she said or saw, in light of the tape Lifton found, since I believe she still lives in Dallas.

BTW, as I've said before, Mary Moorman was a babe.

The radio tapes COMPLETELY REFUTE what is seen in the Z film.

Mary DOES NOT LIVE IN DALLAS but on a ranch more than 100 miles

to the northwest.

Jack

[Pat Speer]

The long and short of it, IMO, is that this thread does do not support Z film alteration theory. Moorman saw something happen with JFK's body or she wouldn't say the next day, to FBI agents, that "he sort of jumped" at the time of the head shot (not previously when his elbows went up). What I'm sure she saw, imperfectly through a camera viewfinder, is what we see unobstructed from a different angle in the Z film.

Perhaps someone could get Moorman's own opinion of what she said or saw, in light of the tape Lifton found, since I believe she still lives in Dallas.

BTW, as I've said before, Mary Moorman was a babe.

The radio tapes COMPLETELY REFUTE what is seen in the Z film.

Mary DOES NOT LIVE IN DALLAS but on a ranch more than 100 miles

to the northwest.

Jack

Come on, Jack, this is an overstatement. A number of other first day witnesses--the Newmans, Zapruder, Hudson, Brehm, etc--reported the head shot. Taking two witnesses and saying their recollections prove anything is silly, in my opinion. After all, Moorman and Hill both thought the head shot was the FIRST shot. Do their statements prove the head shot to be the first shot? Was everyone else lying? Of course not...

These early statements, when combined with the early statements of Zapruder, Brehm, Hudson, Holland, Chaney, etc do offer additional support the last shot was fired AFTER the head shot. From my recent review of every bit of eyewitness evidence I could find, which I hope to have online in the near future, it is abundantly clear the last shot was fired after the head shot.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

The long and short of it, IMO, is that this thread does do not support Z film alteration theory. Moorman saw something happen with JFK's body or she wouldn't say the next day, to FBI agents, that "he sort of jumped" at the time of the head shot (not previously when his elbows went up). What I'm sure she saw, imperfectly through a camera viewfinder, is what we see unobstructed from a different angle in the Z film.

Perhaps someone could get Moorman's own opinion of what she said or saw, in light of the tape Lifton found, since I believe she still lives in Dallas.

BTW, as I've said before, Mary Moorman was a babe.

The radio tapes COMPLETELY REFUTE what is seen in the Z film.

Mary DOES NOT LIVE IN DALLAS but on a ranch more than 100 miles

to the northwest.

Jack

Come on, Jack, this is an overstatement. A number of other first day witnesses--the Newmans, Zapruder, Hudson, Brehm, etc--reported the head shot. Taking two witnesses and saying their recollections prove anything is silly, in my opinion. After all, Moorman and Hill both thought the head shot was the FIRST shot. Do their statements prove the head shot to be the first shot? Was everyone else lying? Of course not...

These early statements, when combined with the early statements of Zapruder, Brehm, Hudson, Holland, Chaney, etc do offer additional support the last shot was fired AFTER the head shot. From my recent review of every bit of eyewitness evidence I could find, which I hope to have online in the near future, it is abundantly clear the last shot was fired after the head shot.

it is abundantly clear the last shot was fired after the head shot.

So, what else is new Pat?

However, in order to avoid confusion, one should refer to it as the head shot at Z312/313, as the third shot was also a "headshot" as well.

Now, as soon as you resolve the issue of the SECOND bullet hole through the coat, with it's angular entry through coat and liner, the "tunneling" effect of the bullet from entry at the edge of the hairline up to the EOP, and then the elongated entry through the skull, then you may come to recognize that this shot also came from the rear.

Tom

P.S. I would also attempt to store in memory the words of FBI Agent Frazier:

Mr. FRAZIER - I can give you my opinion based on this reconstruction, as I understand your question.

All of these things refer to the reconstruction and assuming particularly that the path of the projectile to the President was also the same path, the same angle as it went through his body and then on, and in that connection, yes.

In my opinion the bullet had to strike in the car, either the car itself or an occupant of the car.

Well now, from Frazier's previous testimony we know that an intact projectile with considerable velocity did not strike any place in the car.

Guess that leaves only an "occupant".

[Charles Black]

Come on Pat

You know that we are not talking of a "head shot".

We are talking of "head snap" and the violent up, back and to the left movement of JFK's entire body.

Why "divert" the discussion. No one has said that there was no "head shot". What is being refuted is the violent movement of JFK's head and entire body; commonly referred to as "the head snap".

Obviously there was a headshot(s) !

Charlie Black

Edited February 18, 2007 by Charles Black