Michael Clark Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 17 hours ago, Chris Davidson said: David, Stop pouring it on. Then again, more "Icing on the cake" isn't a bad thing. Where were we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Walton Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Mike Clark - where were we... That's actually beautifully said, Mike. Not even Einstein would have been able to keep up with the garbage on this thread. Mike Clark - Kicking cans on the playground... Trust me, Mike, there are NO angels on this forum "playground." Absolutely none. Mike Walton - my last post here... Yeah, I know I said that here. So this is my last-last post here, but don't hold it against me if I lurk here again. It's just hard to let go when you see silliness here, just like on the H&L caper and the Ruby Didn't Do It caper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 18 hours ago, Chris Davidson said: David, Stop pouring it on. Then again, more "Icing on the cake" isn't a bad thing. Where were we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) We were discussing the splice in Towner during the turn onto Elm Mr. TRULY. That is right.And the President's car following close behind came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour. It wasn't that much, because they were getting ready to turn. And the driver of the Presidential car swung out too far to the right, and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway. And he slowed down perceptibly and pulled back to the left to get over into the middle lane of the parkway. Not being familiar with the street, he came too far out this way when he made his turn. Mr. BELIN. He came too far to the north before he made his curve, and as he curved--as he made his left turn from Houston onto the street leading to the expressway, he almost hit this north curb? Mr. TRULY. That is right. Just before he got to it, he had to almost stop, to pull over to the left. ... and what Dale Myers tried to do in his explanation by claiming a 22 frames per second speed for a camera moving at 18 fps... Why in the world would Dale make the Towner film run almost 25% faster Chris? Speeds up the limo for one, hides/removes 1.8 seconds of film if the speed was actually 18.3 fps. Is Truly adding details that never happened - and if so, what purpose would it serve... Do we not believe it is simply a coincidence that HUGHES is also burn/damaged at the exact same point... as the limo would be approaching the island curb. Zapruder claims he did not stop and start filming after the motorcycles turn onto Elm. But of course nothing of importance happened on that corner anyway.... Edited March 1, 2018 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 On 5/14/2017 at 11:37 AM, Chris Davidson said: If you want to confirm the street angle shenanigan, look no further than the plat (upper-left) where the two distance span measurements are entered (28+24.5) = 52.5ft. At the bottom, those same calculations as the previous graphic will yield a base distance of 52.72ft. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwrExtVD005OOWNhYmZsREcyTm8/view?usp=sharing The excerpt is from Tom Purvis describing the mistake made by Robert West's draftsmen: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwrExtVD005OWWdqWnl4UUItRGs/view?usp=sharing The location was plotted correctly on the plat, the elevation(419.07) was incorrectly entered instead of elevation 419.71 What this does is confirm the notion that the WC was using the 3.13degree street slope in a nefarious manner. The more exact equation becomes: shot#3 @ elevation 416.83 to shot#2 @419.71 = 2.88ft elevation change (18.3ft horizontal/1ft vertical ratio) for 3.13 degree slope 2.88ft x 18.3ft = 52.704ft As can be seen in the link from the previous quote, keeping the location the same(shot#3), but changing the angle 3.13degrees gives the 52.7ft matching distance between shot#2 and shot#3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/9975-splice-in-tina-towner-film/&do=findComment&comment=353514 Using the accumulation of adjustments from father east up Elm St, brought us to the #3 shot designation of Station# 4+96.19 Working backwards and plotting 52.7ft east from Station# 4+96.19 - 52.7ft = Station# 4+43.49 According to the extant film, the limo was traveling at 11.2mph(.9ft per frame) from z263-z272(using existing landmarks) z272 plotted at Station# 435.1 adding .9ft = Station# 4+36.0 Earlier, I plotted z273, or what I believe to be a Connally shot at Station# 4+36.0 The difference in distance between these two locations is 7.49ft. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwrExtVD005OMHI4eGRUSndvMXM/view?usp=sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 7.49ft/.9ft per frame = 8.3 frames z273 + 8.3 frames = z281.3 That location equals the shot (labeled #2 with an X) on the combined SS/FBI plat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Besides Robert West, who created an entirely separate survey document (Life Mag. recreation ), CE560 misleading entries and early documentation from WCD298: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/22692-swan-song-math-rules/&do=findComment&comment=330514 A shot was determined to occur circa extant z207 +/- 1frame. The span between extant z207 and extant z281 = 74frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 The confirmation of 74 frames between these two shots will come from frame counter Paul Mandel (Life Mag. reporter). https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwrExtVD005OTC0wR0tJMS1hS00/view?usp=sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 What Mandel saw on his film version was an obvious physical mark that Connally (white shirt) was shot. What Rather saw was an obvious physical mark that Connally was shot. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/9975-splice-in-tina-towner-film/&do=findComment&comment=352707 What we don't see is that physical mark. If you look back at the Connally stabilization I provided, you'll notice about extant z278, Connally's chest now starts moving out of view. We don't get to see what the other versions showed. By extant z281, this is what we see of Connally's chest area. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwrExtVD005OblhpNi1ZVDVBVDQ/view?usp=sharing This is no coincidence as it quite obviously showed a shot not possible from the 6th floor SE TSBD window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 On 5/19/2017 at 9:01 AM, David Josephs said: Why in the world would Dale make the Towner film run almost 25% faster Chris? Speeds up the limo for one, hides/removes 1.8 seconds of film if the speed was actually 18.3 fps. David, I think of it this way: Run one pass through and remove half, that's 50%. Run another pass through and remove half, that's another 25% How do I make that whole again: .75 x 1.3333333.... = 1 The 1.8seconds Myers jump = 33 frames@18.3fps If I was creating a frame numbering scenario to incorporate/sync this 33 frame jump, what could be the original frame number assigned to extant z133? Remember, this occurs after the two passes since I don't believe Myers was creating his project back in 1963. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 33 frames? and Z starts at 100 + 33? And it's SPECTER who insists that POSITION A is somehow involved... Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to ascertain the speed of the Presidential limousine at the time of the assassination? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; because we were able to determine the speed of the camera, and thereby accurately determine the length of time it takes for a specific number of frames to run through the camera at this 18.3 frames per second, and having located these frame positions in the street, we took the farthest distance point we had in the Zapruder film which was frame 161 through frame 313. Mr. SHANEYFELT. The first position we established that morning was frame 161. Mr. SPECTER. Was there not a position established prior in sequence to frame 161, specifically that designated as position A? Mr. SHANEYFELT. That was actually established later. But the first one to be actually located was 161. And we went back later and positioned point A. Mr. SPECTER. Well, let's start with the position which is the most easterly point on Elm Street, which I believe would be position A, would it not? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes. Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is an album that I prepared of black and white photographs made of the majority of the frames in the Zapruder film---- Mr. SPECTER. Starting with what frame number? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Starting with frame 171, going through frame 334. Mr. SPECTER. And why did you start with frame 171? Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is the frame that the slides start from. This was an arbitrary frame number that was decided on as being far enough back to include the area that we wanted to study. I find it interesting that they did all they could to exclude info prior to z161 (which was originally z168 and changed for CE884) yet still insist on discussing the significance of POS A. Mr. SPECTER. Was there any prior position, that is a position before position A, where the marksman from the sixth floor could have fired the weapon and have struck the President at the known point of entry at the base of the back of his neck? Mr. SHANEYFELT. No; because as the car moves back, you lose sight of the chalk mark on the back of his coat. Mr. SPECTER. So that would be the first position where the marksman could focus in on the circled point where the point of entry on the President was marked? Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is correct. That is simply not true at all. Bottom left... roll the limo back, you don't lose sight of anything while the "chalk mark" on the coat rises... a simple movement of the rifle adjusts for that... so why Shaneyfelt would claim what he does here, and relate it back to the window - when according to Shaneyfelt the limo was never at Position A. Any thoughts on why all the effort, images and explanations related to this spot the limo had never supposedly driven thru... unless you listen to TRULY. Mr. SHANEYFELT. This shows the photograph that was made from the point where Zapruder was standing looking toward the car, and is a point that we have designated as position A because it is in a position that did not appear on the Zapruder film The Zapruder film does not start until the car gets farther down Elm Street. It takes 81 frames for the motorcycle prior to 133 to disappear into that TSBD/Elm street corner and reemerge.... The motorcycle in a few frames is in the exact same spot as Position A. Here is that bike with Pos A for the stand-in limo behind it... When you click frame by frame on TOWNER... during and just after that turn it appears to me that the limo is moving sideways, not rolling forward, but that may be an illusion of the perspective. Somehow from that spot, the limo gets to z133. Both the Towner and Z films are altered to remove that turn Edited March 3, 2018 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 7 hours ago, David Josephs said: 33 frames? and Z starts at 100 + 33? btw, when I mentioned two passes, the second pass would not be a complete pass as the existing 353 frames, limit it to a fraction thereof. Myers gives us the 33 frames via the Towner fps rate. All we need is a confirmation via a different avenue: 353/1275 = .276 - .25 (difference in whole frames) = .026 x 1275 = 33.15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Actually, The true frame difference would be 33.5frames/30ft/18.3fps, as that would match the average speed of the limo using CE884 z161-z313 data. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/9975-splice-in-tina-towner-film/&do=findComment&comment=351595 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 (edited) more than one looks strange.... well done Chris... do you suppose this corroborates Truly's testimony, cause we could use some... I've found no one who says the same thing or any images of the turn itself... Hughes is only the start of the turn? and you'd think Dorman would have seen it... of course Dorman wasn't called Edited July 18, 2017 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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