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Steve Thomas

JFK
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Everything posted by Steve Thomas

  1. Pamela, I'm sort of coming around to that position too. Reading through the Soviet documents we have makes me suspicious. They are so contradictory. Mostly it was that bit in Oswald's diary when he wrote that after six weeks of being incognito, he was visited by three guys he had never seen before. That just really made me go, hmmmm... Marina's case is kind of weird. I was reading something the other day about her marriage to her second husband, the guy named Porter. They got married only about a month after meeting. That sounded an awful lot like her marriage to Lee Harvey - or Harvey Lee., or whoever. *grin* Steve Thomas
  2. This is an excerpt from, The Road Not Taken, by Max Boot. © 2018 https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-innovative-cia-agent-who-brokered-a-truce-in-vietnam?ref=home Steve Thomas
  3. Lansdale in Vietnam - Excerpt

    David, I take it you don't agree with the last two sentences of the excerpt: "By saving Diem from his enemies in Saigon and Washington, Lansdale had made a powerful and on balance positive impact on the course of Vietnamese history. Although he did not know it at the time, he had reached the apogee of his power and influence." *grin* I was surprised at the enmity between the French and the Americans. I hadn't known that. Steve Thomas
  4. Where was Bob Carroll?

    I would like to take a look at three questions. I can't say I can answer them, but I'd like to address them. Many people know of Bob Carroll's role in the capture of Lee Harvey Oswald at the Texas Theater, but he also had some duties prior to that. What were the instructions given to the Special Service Bureau Detectives who were stationed on Main St., and who briefed them. Was this Erich Kaminsky? Where was Bob Carroll and why does he seem to be out of position? Carroll's non-role as the source of the 605 Elsbeth St. address. 1) Kaminsky's Role - Captain Perdue Lawrence testified before the Warren Commission on July 24, 1964. He was the Captain of the DPD' Traffic Division's Accident Prevention Bureau. He was being questioned about the security measures for JFK's visit. W.P. “Pat” Gannaway was the Captain of the Special Service Bureau. During his testimony, he stressed several times that his role was to keep the motorcade flowing. Actual security being provided against threats to the President would be coming from someone else. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/lawrence.htm Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you receive another set of instructions or orders after that? Captain LAWRENCE. Yes; on the evening of November 21, this was the first time that I had attended any security meeting at all in regards to this motorcade. At approximately 5 p.m. I was told to report to the conference room on the third floor, and when I arrived at the conference room the deputy chiefs were in there, there were members of the Secret Service--Mr. Sorrels, Captain Gannaway, Captain Souter of radio patrol, and Capt. Glen King, deputy chiefs, assistant chiefs, and Chief Curry, and one gentleman, who I assume was in charge of the security for the Secret Service. Mr. GRIFFIN. Was anything said in that meeting about any special precautions that should be taken in connection with protecting the President? Captain LAWRENCE. Yes; there was some discussion that centered more around the security down at the Trade Mart than any other place and Captain Gannaway was in charge of the security in that area, and then Chief Stevenson, I believe, was there, and they mentioned that they would have detectives stationed along the route--along the motorcade route, especially in the downtown area. Mr. GRIFFIN. And what were they to be looking for? Captain LAWRENCE. They were taking care of security, all right, but they did not go into any discussion in my presence. I assume that this had all been, discussed earlier, in fact, when I was called up there, these people were already meeting. “I assume that some instructions have been given to some members of the CID, the criminal investigation division, and to the men from the special service bureau, and the men specifically assigned to security duties instead of traffic duties. It would be my assumption that this was a part of the assignments given.” https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth190029/m1/1/ This memo is also in the DPD Archives JFK Collection On December 11, 1963, Lieutenant Erich Kaminsky wrote a memo to Captain Gannaway of the Special Service Bureau. In that memo he wrote, “Sir: On November 22, 1963, the following Special Service men where(sic) assigned to work the Presidential motorcade. All the men had assignments on Main St. The following is a list of the men and the locations they worked: B.K. Carroll 1100 block Main K.E. Lyon 1700 block Main H.R. Arnold was supposed to have been in the 700 block per Kaminsky's memo. No report of his duties on the 22nd are in the DPD Archives, and he did not testify to the WC. The 700 block in Carroll's WC testimony is not a mistake, because he told WC Counsel Joseph Ball that this was three to four blocks from the intersection of Main and Houston. Kaminskyis writing this memo to Gannaway, Gannaway was in charge of the security at the Trade Mart. Had he delegated responsibility for security on Main St. to Kaminsky? And was Kaminsky responsibe for briefing the Detectives? Captain Gannaway had assigned himself to the Trade Mart. DPD Archives, Box 1, Folder# 11, Item# 8 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box1.htm 2) Where was Bob Carroll? When Bob Carroll testified to the WC on April 3, 1964, he told them: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/carroll.htm Mr. Carroll: “Since I have been in the Dallas Police Department, I have worked the radio and patrol divisions, the accident prevention bureau and the special service bureau. While assigned to the special service bureau, I worked with the narcotics section, the criminal intelligence section and the vice section and the administrative section.” On November 22nd, he was serving in the Administrative Section as shown on his after-action report in the DPD Archives. Mr. BALL. On November 22, 1963, were you on duty? Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir; I was. Mr. BALL. What were your hours of work that day? Mr. CARROLL. We were instructed to be in the assembly room at 10 a.m. for briefing prior to the arrival of President Kennedy, and at that time I was in the assembly room at 8 a.m. Mr. BALL. What job was assigned to you that day? Mr. CARROLL. I was assigned to the 700 block of Main Street. Mr. BALL. Along the curb - did you stand along the sidewalk? Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir; to be there, and, of course, there were uniform officers also assigned in that block, but I think they had one detective for each block. Carroll was actually in a bar when he heard that JFK had been shot. “Mr. BALL. When did you first hear that the President had been shot? Mr. CARROLL. I had walked around to a tavern around the corner. I was walking down the street and I passed this person I know and I stepped in this tavern to speak to him and I heard it - they turned on the TV just as I walked in the door and I heard it on the TV set. Mr. BALL. What did you do then? Mr. CARROLL. I left and went to the office...” He commandeered a car and went down to the TSBD where he participated in a search of the basement. “The dispatcher stated it was Officer Tippit who was shot and he was dead, and so when I come back out of the office where I had used the phone, I requested permission to go to Oak Cliff and permission was granted and I took K. E. Lyons, and he and I left for Oak Cliff.” If Carroll had been assigned to the 1100 block of Main, why did he tell the Warren Commission he had been assigned to the 700 block? If he was assigned to the 700 block, what happened to H.R. Arnold? Did they trade places? If they didn't, who was providing security in the 1100 block? DPD Archives, Box 2, Folder# 7, Item# 28 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm Memo from K.E. Lyon to Chief Curry dated December 4, 1963. Lyon was a Patrolman on TDY assignment to the Vice Section of the Special Service Bureau. However, Lyon is not listed in the patrolmen assigned to the Special Service Bureau in Batchelor's Exhibit 5002 - https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Batchelor_Ex_5002.pdf “On November 22, 1963 at approximately 2:00 PM, Detective B.K. Carroll and I were instructed by Lieutenant E. Kaminsky to go to the Oak Cliff area where Officer J.D. Tippit had been shot.” K.E. Lyon was in the squad car bringing Oswald back to the station from the Theater. Lyon is listed as one of the arresting officers on Oswald's Arrest Report. He's a little off on his time. By 2:00 PM, Oswald had already been arrested and brought back to the station. DPD Archives, Box 3, Folder# 2, Item# 52 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box4.htm Bob K. Carroll was a Detective in the Administrative Section of the Special Service Bureau. In a signed memo to Chief Curry, he wrote: “At approximately 2:00PM this date the undersigned officer were (sic) enroute to the vicinity of the 300 block of West Jefferson to aid in the search of the killer of Officer J.D. Tippit.” (Though the memo is undated, he writes “this date”, so it must have been written on the 22nd.) Lyon makes the same mistake on time in his memo of December 4th as Carroll did in his memo of November 22nd. They also both spell Gerald Hill's name as “Jerry” Hill. So, by 2:00PM, Kaminsky has left the TSBD where Lumpkin had stationed him at the front door collecting names, and had returned to Headquarters where he was able to instruct Carroll and Lyon to proceed to Oak Cliff. Kaminsky was reporting to Gannaway where Detectives had been placed along Main St. It was Kaminsky who Deputy Chief Lumpkin had positioned at the front door of the TSBD. It was Kaminsky who Carroll and Lyon went to when they wanted to go search for Tippit's killer. Was Kamonsky's role on the 22nd a larger one than we knew? Kaminski is also the Officer who was given the jacket found by James Larue on Industrial Ave. under the Ft. Worth Turnpike. (DPD Archives Box 4, Folder# 3, Item# 26, page 3) http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box4.htm DPD Archives, Box2, Folder# 7, Item# 12 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm Carroll put Oswald in car# 226. From the Dallas Dispatch Tapes: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes3.htm 1:53 PM: Dispatcher: Where is he (Oswald)? Who's Got him? 550/2 (Gerald Hill): Special Service unit is with us also. We're in his car, 492. (492 is a Special Service Bureau car). 3) Bob Carroll's non-role in the origin of the 605 Elsbeth St. address. Lieutenant Jack Revill testified before the Warren Commission on May 13, 1964. (Bob Carroll had already testified a month earlier – see below) http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/revill2.htm The questioning concerns a Report that Revill wrote out at approximately 3:30 to 3:35 on the afternoon of the 22nd conncerning Lee Harvey Oswald at 605 Elsbeth St. Mr. REVILL. That is what they gave me. Mr. RANKIN. You found that out? Mr. DULLES. This is an address he once lived at. Mr. RANKIN. Do you know that? Mr. DULLES. This is correct. I want to find out what he knows about it. Notice the interplay between Rankin and Dulles. Dulles seems to know about the Elsbeth St. address and he wants to know how Revill knows about it. Mr. DULLES. Could I ask a question? Where did you get this address that you put on of 605 Elsbeth Street, do you recall? Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; from Detective E. B. Carroll or Detective Taylor. Mr. DULLES. Are they subordinates? Mr. REVILL. No; they are detectives assigned to the special service bureau. One of them works the narcotics squad and one of them is assigned to the vice unit. Mr. DULLES. You never ascertained where they got it? Mr. REVILL. No, sir; this might be the address that they got from Oswald, I do not know. I never even thought about it until you brought up the point that this is not the address. Mr. DULLES. Can you find out where they got this address? Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; I can. Mr. DULLES. I think that would be useful. I would like to know that. I would like to know where they got this address also. Mr. REVILL. It would have been the same day because this was made within an hour---- The CHAIRMAN. I think that is all. Thank you, again, lieutenant. Mr. REVILL. I will attempt to find out on that address, and I shall let Mr. Sorrels know, with Secret Service. It's Dulles, not Rankin who keeps pushing Revill where he got this address. Is Dulles concerned that Revill knew about a connection of a Harvey Lee Oswald to Elsbeth St, and how Revill would know about that? Just about the time when Revill would have revealed when he obtained this address, he is cut off. Warren Commission Document# 948 is a memo from Sorrels to Inspector Kelley dated May 19, 1964. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11344#relPageId=2&tab=page In that memo, Sorrels says that Revill contacted Sorrels (it does not say how this contact was made), and said that Revill told him he got the 605 Elsbeth address orally from Bob Carroll. As the driver of the car that took Oswald from the Theater to the police station, Carroll allegedly looked back over his shoulder and read the address off a Dallas Public Library card that had been removed from Oswald's billfold by one of the officers in the back seat. Carroll allegedly said that he misread the number as 605 instead of 602. This is six days after Revilll's WC testimony, and one month after Bob Carroll told the WC that no mention of an address had been made in the car transporting Oswald to City Hall. Detective Bob Carroll's testimony before the Warren Commission April 3, 1964 http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/carroll.htm Mr. BELIN. Did he give two names? Or did someone in the car read from the identification? Mr. CARROLL. Someone in the car may have read from the identification. I know two names, the best I recall, were mentioned. Mr. BELIN. Were any addresses mentioned? Mr. CARROLL. Not that I recall; no, sir. There has been some debate over the years whether the number 605 has been typed over to read 602, and I can't really answer that. A copy of the Library Card can be found in CD 5, page 492. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10406#relPageId=497&tab=page In their after-action reports filed with Chief Curry on December 3rd, neither Caroll (DPD Archives Box 5, Folder# 2, Item# 73), nor Detective E.E. Taylor, Special Services Bureau, Narcotics Section (DPD Archives Box 5, Folder# 2, Item# 81) make any mention of giving Revill Oswald’s address. http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box5.htm K.E. Lyon, who was also in the car transporting Oswald to City Hall in his report: Box 5, Folder# 2, Item# 78 makes no mention of obtaining Oswald's address Did any of Oswald's ID in his billfold have the Irving address on it? Is Hill lying? http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hill_gl.htm About the time I got through with the radio transmission, I asked Paul Bentley, "Why don't you see if he has any identification." Paul was sitting sort of sideways in the seat, and with his right hand he reached down and felt of the suspect's left hip pocket and said, "Yes, he has a billfold," and took it out. I never did have the billfold in my possession, but the name Lee Oswald was called out by Bentley from the back seat, and said this identification, I believe, was on the library card. Mr. BELIN. All right; when did you learn of his address? Mr. HILL. There were two different addresses on the identification. One of them was in Oak Cliff. The other one was in Irving. But as near as I can recall of the conversation in the car, this was strictly conversation, because I didn't read any of the stuff. It didn't have an address on Beckley, that I recall hearing. Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this. Now from the time you got in the car to the time you got to the station, I believe you said that at least the second question asked was where do you live, and the man didn't answer? Mr. HILL. The man didn't answer. Mr. BELIN. Was he ever asked again where he lived, up to the time you got to the station? Mr. HILL. No; I don't believe so, because when Bentley got the identification out, we had two different addresses. We had two different names, and the comment was made, "I guess we are going to have to wait until we get to the station to find out who he actually is." Secret Service Report of Dallas SS Agent Robert Steuart dated November 24, 1963. Itemizes the contents of Oswald's billfold: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10490&search=Oswald_billfold+contents#relPageId=220&tab=page “I examined the contents of billfold which I was told was taken from Assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald.” Item numbers 6&7: front and back sides of Dallas Public Library card bearing the address of 602 Elsbeth. There is nothing in those billfold contents which gives an Irving address. In his after-action Report, M.G, Hall wrote that FBI Agent Manning Clements inventoried the contents of Oswald's wallet on the evening of November 22nd. On the 23rd, Clements wrote a Report detailing the contents of Oswald's wallet. Warren Commission Document 5 page 94. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10406#relPageId=95&tab=page This is page 3 of Clement's Report. A Dallas Public Library card listing the address of 602 Elsbeth. Nothing in his billfold with an Irving address. The only two accounts that put the Library card in Oswald's wallet prior to his arrival at police headquarters are erroneous. In his after-action Report dated December 3, 1963, DPD Archives, Box 2, Folder# 7, Item# 4, page 2 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm Detective Paul Bentley wrote: “On the way to the City Hall, I removed the suspect's wallet and obtained his name.... I turned his identification over to Lt. Baker. I then went to Captain Westbrook's office to make a report of this arrest.” There is nothing in his Report about obtaining an address. Oswald's ID immediately went to Lieutenant Baker. Where is Bentley's Report to Westbrook done on November 22nd. Was it written, or was it just an oral report? Why did he go to Westbrook to make his Report? Westbrook was in Personnel. Gerald Hill's testimony before the Warren Commission http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hill_gl.htm “Bentley had sprained an ankle, and Lyons had sprained an ankle while effecting the arrest--they were fixing to have to make a whole bushel basket of reports--we adjourned to the personnel office, which was further down the hall from homicide and I sat down and started to try to organize the first report on the arrest. I originally had the heading on it, "Injuries sustained by suspect while effecting his arrest in connection with the murder of Officer J. D. Tippit," and a few minutes later Captain Westbrook came in the office and said that our suspect had admitted being a Communist. This is strictly hearsay. I did not hear it myself. He himself also said a few minutes later he had previously been in the Marine Corps, had a dishonorable discharge, had been to Russia, and had had some trouble with the police in New Orleans for passing out pro-Castro literature. This still is all hearsay because I didn't actually hear it firsthand myself. And at about this point Captain Westbrook suggested that I change the heading of my report to include arrest of the suspect in the assassination of the President and in the murder of Officer J. D. Tippit, which I did. I originally wrote the report for Bob Carroll's signature and for my signature, and left it with the captain to be typed while we moved over in another office to get a cup of coffee and sort of calm down and recap the events. By then McDonald was there, and we had added some information that he could give us such as the information about "This is it." Which the suspect allegedly said as he came into contact with him. The exact location of the officers and who was there on the original arrest and everything, and we were waiting around for the secretary to finish the report. When we got it back ready to sign, Carroll and I were sitting there, and it had Captain Westbrook's name for signature, and added a paragraph about he and the FBI agent being there, and not seeing that it made any difference, I went ahead and signed the report. Actually, they were there, but I didn't make any corrections. And as far as the report, didn't allege what they did, but had added a paragraph to our report to include the fact that he was there, and also that the FBI agent was there. Now as to why this was done, your guess is as good as mine.” Steve Thomas
  5. First to ID Oswald

    This is just meant as a joke. The first to ID Lee Harvey Oswald as the killer of John F. Kennedy may very well have been Dallas Secret Service Agent, Robert Steuart. Secret Service Report of Dallas SS Agent Robert Steuart dated November 24, 1963. Itemizes the contents of Oswald's billfold: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10490&search=Oswald_billfold+contents#relPageId=220&tab=page “I examined the contents of billfold which I was told was taken from Assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald.” And I thought, Wow! That's pretty straight up isn't it? No bones about it. Steve Thomas
  6. This is just a technical question because I don't know the answer. I was listening to the DPD Channel 1 broadcast of Nov. 22nd, and thinking about the four minutes or so between a2:30 and 12:35 when Channel 1 was filled with static. I have read of the theory that someone's mike was stuck open. (Suspicion fell on H.B. McLain I think). Listening closely, I think I pick up the words, "All Units, All Units". If someone's mike was stuck open, you shouldn't be able to hear that should you? Could several people talk at the same time, because I don't hear anyone yelling, "Shots fired. Shots fired". Rather than a stuck open mike; at that time in 1963, would it have been possible to hack in and override the police communications channel - let's say if you knew the frequency and had broadcasting powers? Steve Thomas
  7. communications override/hacking?

    Larry, I kind of hoped you would weigh in on this. I think you have a whole lot more expertise in this area than I do. I have to believe that the scientists who spent thousands of hours going over the dictabelt recordings would have raised the possibility of jamming a long time ago. But, I wondered. Disrupting radio communications would definitely have served the purpose of sowing confusion. I have to laugh. Mine was not "idle" speculation. Forlorn maybe? (Merriam Webster definition forlorn: " pitifully sad" ) *smile* Steve Thomas
  8. Separate the wheat from the chaff and go on. That's the nice thing about these Internet forum thingys. If you think something is a waste of your time, nobody forces you to read or comment on things you don't want to. The last time I looked, there were more than 242,000 posts covering 636 pages in this Forum alone going back to 2004. Take your pick. Steve Thomas
  9. communications override/hacking?

    David, I know you can listen in on a certain frequency. Ham radio operators do it all the time. But I don't know what it would take to broadcast on a certain frequency. You'd be locked out, wouldn't you? Otherwise airlines, etc. would be disrupted all the time. I just don't have the technical expertise... Here's DVP's link to the audio transmissions: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KuCx4w_uG78jMwpJXpFe6zxACFv4Iy6n/view Between 12:30 and 12: 35, does that sound like jamming to you, or is it just an open stuck mike? Steve Thomas
  10. communications override/hacking?

    David, I know you can listen in on a certain frequency. Ham radio operators do it all the time. But I don't know what it would take to broadcast on a certain frequency. You'd be locked out, wouldn't you? Otherwise airlines, etc. would be disrupted all the time. I just don't have the technical expertise... Here's DVP's link to the audio transmissions: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KuCx4w_uG78jMwpJXpFe6zxACFv4Iy6n/view Between 12:30 and 12: 35, does that sound like jamming to you, or is it just an open stuck mike? Steve Thomas
  11. communications override/hacking?

    Michael, I will freely admit that the idea of radio jamming is purely speculative, but disrupting communications is classic military doctrine. I would submit that the first few minutes would be crucial in creating confusion and sowing chaos, making escape that much easier. Steve Thomas
  12. communications override/hacking?

    Paul, Actually, that crossed my mind. The ARRB should have demanded those. "Army apparently didn't tell commission of Oswald's alias " Dallas Morning News 3/19/78 http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/F%20Disk/FBI/FBI%20Records%20Release%2012-7-77%20News%20Accounts/Item%20069.pdf "However, Biggio, who was directing police intelligence communications at the Fair Park office the day of the assassination...." "Don Stringfellow, a fellow police intelligence officer working with Biggio at the Fair Park office,..." http://www.texasescapes.com/DallasTexas/Dallas-Texas-Fair-Park-26-WRR-Headquarters.htm “The radio station, located on 1310 AM, received its license in 1921. For reasons unknown, it used the call letters WRR. In addition to broadcasting music, WRR provided radio equipment for the city departments until they could acquire their own apparatus and administered dispatching services for private ambulances and the Cockrell Hill police.” http://dallascityhall.com/government/citysecretary/archives/Pages/Archives_WRR.aspx Until the departments had their own internal support, WRR supplied and maintained all radio equipment for Police, Fire, Park and Recreation, Water, Public Works, and the former Health Department. At its peak it furnished dispatching services for Dallas County, Cockrell Hill Police Department, and private ambulance services (in the days before 911). WRR discontinued these adjunct services in 1969. New Police Radio Facilities: https://m.facebook.com/Dallas-Police-Department-Museum-116586565145351/ In 1951, the new radio room opened in City Hall. Larry and Sandy, Thanks for your input. I have to admit, I don't exactly know how jamming works. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_jamming "Obvious jamming is easy to detect because it can be heard on the receiving equipment. It usually is some type of noise such as stepped tones (bagpipes), random-keyed code, pulses, music (often distorted), erratically warbling tones, highly distorted speech, random noise (hiss) and recorded sounds." I wondered about all that static you hear in those four minutes or so. Steve Thomas
  13. communications override/hacking?

    Jamming. That's the word I was thinking of. Would it have been possible to jam the police department radio frequency? Steve Thomas
  14. Bull Stock Market!

    Irving Daily News – Irving Texas September 14, 1963 STOCK MARKET - Stocks Catch Breath After New High Set. The Dow did it again last week following up the previous week’s history-making performance with another record. The popular Dow’-Jones industrial stock in autos, steels, paper, drug and rails were pacesetters in the market last week, when, eclipsing a spirited midweek show of strength, spurted up a total of 7.12 points Tuesday and Wednesday setting a new all-time high of 740.34. . Volume of approximately 33 million shares on the NY5L was the heaviest trading of the year, topping the previous week of 24.3 million shares. Last week’s advance was a continuation of the sustained upward march stock prices have made since late July when the Dow Industrials were at the 690 level. Business reports continued to favor the stock market bulls but the bears are sitting on the sidelines wondering just how long the advance can continue, and when the market will begin to discount an economic adjustment. *smile* Steve Thomas
  15. Bull Stock Market!

    Kirk, It sounds like you know a whole lot more than I do about economics and how it works. I was just reading that Irving paper, and it made me smile. The Dow was running about 700 hundred or so, and the paper was talking about "record-breaking, history-making performances". It's all relative to the times you are in, isn't it? It made me smile. Steve Thomas
  16. Bull Stock Market!

    Jim, No, actually, I was just kind of setting the stage in my mind. I've been trying to research September, 1963. For example; something I didn't know, north Texas was just recovering from an extended drought. In Texas, they had the driest first quarter year (January - March) on record. San Antonio had the warmest April since 1885. https://books.google.com/books?id=j1guXzyXN3UC&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=Dallas+drought+1963&source=bl&ots=YwRwFwMYP9&sig=fqJTiTw0ebEFQkrCBv4CTdhai5I&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiY4IeW-8PYAhVHTCYKHZWMAt0Q6AEIaTAN#v=onepage&q=Dallas drought 1963&f=false But, isn't it funny that two people have come on this Forum in the last 48 hours wanting to tell people what they should or should not talk about. I find that suspiciously coincidental. Steve Thomas
  17. picnic at White Rock Lake

    Miami FBI Agent James O'Connor interview of Joaquin Martinez de Pinillos 12/23/63: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57746&relPageId=29&search=Pinillos page 29 FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 59 "Mr. Pinollos stated that Dean Perkins, 11022 Genetta Dr. Dallas, Texas assisted the DRE in organizing the meetings and arranging the publicity attached to the meetings". Google Maps location of 11022 Genetta Dr. https://www.google.com/maps/place/11022+Genetta+Dr,+Dallas,+TX+75228/@32.8491218,-96.717248,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x864ea6ce43ee4b2f:0x3cfd02d66ed0d4db!8m2!3d32.8439529!4d-96.656844
  18. I don't know why, but this picnic has always fascinated me. Part of it goes to the question of whether Veciana could have seen LHO in Dallas in September if he was supposed to be in New Orleans. Part of it goes to the Sylvia Odio story of meeting LHO in the hallway of her apartment house. Part of it goes to whether or not LHO addressed a group of Cubans. Part of it goes to SNFE/Alpha 66 and DRE recruiting efforts in Dallas in September. Part of it may address Hall and Seymour running guns through Dallas. Part of it may address the Whitter/Lawrence theft of guns from the Terrell National Guard Armory. Part of it may address Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro/George Perrel attempts to buy guns from John Thomas Masen. Part of it may address Nancy Perrin Rich and her testimony. There just seemed to be a lot of Cuban exile activity in Dallas in the fall of 1963. These are excerpts of an interview of Harold Weisberg with Colonel and Mrs. Robert Castorr. Has anyone ever seen the film that these stills were taken from, or the pictures Weisberg showed to the Castorrs? Mr, C: And let's not forget that he was at the White Rock picnic amongst the Cubans and ostensibly wasn't Oswald suppose to have been there at the picnic? http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/C%20Disk/Castorr%20L%20Robert%20Colonel/Item%2023.pdf page 14. W: Do you remember when that picnic was? Mrs. C: Well, it was about mid-September of '63. http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/C%20Disk/Castorr%20L%20Robert%20Colonel/Item%2023.pdf page 5. Mr. C: Well I understand that Oswald was at the White Rock picnic with these Cubans. Wasn't there a picture that came out that somebody took that's somewhere in the files.. W: May I ask if that could have been a man who looked like Oswald? Mr. C: It could be... W: I think that's more likely. Mr. C: I'm getting back to my belief and thinking that Father McCann was also there... Mrs. C: He was invited to that picnic. That was mid-September of '63 and Bob was out of the country. So this would put these men -- Paul and presumably Howard -- in Dallas at approximately that time in Sept. with another man whom they introduced to her as Leon Oswald. So you see, when we're talking about a man at the picnic who was thought to have been Oswald, it was quite consistent with Sylvia Odio's story because when she was shown the pictures of Oswald, although if you read her testimony carefully, she points out certain dissimilarities between the man she saw and the man, Oswald, in the pictures. Nonetheless it's consistent with Oswald and on balance, she said it looked like him. W: You may not, but that's all right. What we have here are pictures collected of people we don't know too much about. These are some stills taken from the television films taken of the in White Rock Park. in the summer July 1963 I believe. ITS Mrs. C: September, I believe. Mr. W: Was that it._ http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/C%20Disk/Castorr%20L%20Robert%20Colonel/Item%2012.pdf page 1. Mrs. C: Now, I was not at that meeting. So far as this picnic was concerned, you see, I was going around to some of these people bringing food, bringing clothing and what have you, and I did not speak nor understand Spanish unfortunately, but I heard that there was going to be a picnic at White Rock Lake and the man by the name of Rodriquez was selling the tickets. And some reference was made to the fact that in some group of Cubans, someone said are you going to that picnic. "Well, no, the right people aren't going to be there"and I was never invited to that picnic so.. W: They were more or less the left wing group. Mrs. C: Yes, now after the picnic was over, I heard from some source and I couldn't tell you where that they raised $7,000 at that picnic and that there were people there from Puerto Rico and from Venezuela who attended that picnic. pp. 6-7 http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/FBI%20Records%20Files/105-82555/105-82555%20Section%20215/215e.pdf p. 187 25H371, CE 2390 and CD 1546 p. 188. FBI interview of Felix Guillermo Othon Pacho by SA Wallace Heitman on September 8, 1964. Othon was the DRE delegate in Dallas after Sarah Castillo. Othon told Heitman that Manuel Salvat had come to Dallas from Miami in September or October, 1963 and that a meeting of about thirty or forty Cubans and Americans had been held at a bank near White Rock Lake. The meeting had been organized by Mr. Dean Perkins, who was sympathetic to the Cuban cause. Steve Thomas
  19. picnic at White Rock Lake

    http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/C%20Disk/Castorr%20L%20Robert%20Colonel/Item%2023.pdf page 2. Mrs. C: These two men came to the Twilly home in the company of a very attractive Cuban girl who represented this student group and also Dean Perkins, whom I know very well, Dean and his wife Jan; I believes they are from the St. Bernard Parish and they were interested in the resettlement of the Cubans long before I ever became interested. The St. Bernard of Clairvaux Church and School are on the edge of White Rock Lake in the Casa Linda subdivision of Dallas. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1&q=%22St.+Bernard+of+Clairvaux%22+Dallas&npsic=0&rflfq=1&rlha=0&rllag=32825749,-96704678,42&tbm=lcl&ved=0ahUKEwjM97rKpMHYAhUH5iYKHVxHAOkQtgMIKQ&tbs=lrf:!2m1!1e2!3sIAE,lf:1,lf_ui:2&rldoc=1#rlfi=hd:;si:;mv:!1m3!1d227.00818608208203!2d-96.7046787!3d32.8257491!2m3!1f0!2f0!3f0!3m2!1i21!2i13!4f13.1;tbs:lrf:!2m1!1e2!3sIAE,lf:1,lf_ui:2 Steve Thomas
  20. Cubans sorted by name

    I happened to stumble on this by accident. It looks to be a CIA list of Cuban names sorted by patronymic name and matronymic name. Some of the names also provide a short physical description. I thought it might be helpful to researchers looking for somebody under both names. HSCA Segregated CIA Collection Box 33 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=77011&search=Pinillos#relPageId=63&tab=page Steve Thomas
  21. Coup D'Etat in America

    "I stumbled on this by accident". Dude# 1 I happened to run across this by accident looking for something else, and thought I'd just pass this along. I know how hard it is to find this online anymore, so I thought I'd pass this along. I am not endorsing or recommending this work, just passing it along. And I can't say that this is the complete text. Vol 2 just seems to stop abruptly. (If nothing else, It's got some good pictures). https://the-eye.eu/public/concen.org/JFK%20Kennedy%20Assassination%20Zapruder%20Film%20Hoax%20research%20pack/ebooks/Coup%20D'Etat%20in%20America%2C%20Vol%201.pdf https://the-eye.eu/public/concen.org/JFK%20Kennedy%20Assassination%20Zapruder%20Film%20Hoax%20research%20pack/ebooks/Coup%20D'Etat%20in%20America%2C%20Vol%202.pdf Steve Thomas
  22. Cubans sorted by name

    David, Here's my reasoning, if you're interested. In 2014, Richard Douglas posted a series of photos of the Dark Complected Man in the jfkassassinationforum here: https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=da10693a75f6fceb0ce372badd010bff&topic=11687.0 He heads west towards the underpass, and then turns around and heads back east towards Houston St. Would you say that this man is 5'11", 158 lbs, has brown hair, wears dark glasses, and has a dark complexion? The physical description provided above is not that of the Dark Complected Man, but of Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro. See 5/26/64 FBI Report of SA Wallace Heitman, page 5 http://www.maryferre...p;relPageId=223 WC Testimony of Roger Craig: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/craig.htm Mr. BELIN - What about the man who was driving the car? Mr. CRAIG - Now, he struck me, at first, as being a colored male. He was very dark complected, had real dark short hair, and was wearing a thin white-looking Jacket---uh, it looked like the short windbreaker type, you know, because it was real thin and had the collar that came out over the shoulder (indicating with hands) like that--just a short jacket. Raul Castro Baile, one of the Officers of the Dallas Chapter of SNFE/Alpha 66 owned a Rambler. It had a bumper sticker on it that read, “Kan the Kennedy Klan” that he picked up at a John Birch Society meeting. Somebody had altered it to read, “Kill the Kennedy Klan”, and after the assassination Juan Quintana was observed trying to remove it. Steve Thomas
  23. I've been racking my brains about the lunchroom for the last couple of days ever since Jim DiEugenio brought up the question of when the story of coke first appeared. It seems to me that if you were trying to frame someone for JFK's murder, the last thing you would want to do is give him an alibi by placing him in the lunchroom within 90 seconds of the crime. And then when I read this exchange with Allen Dulles, it hit me. The effort was not to put Oswald in the lunchroom, it was to put him near the stairs. No one saw him commit the crime, (your only eyewitness failed to identify him in a lineup) or leaving the scene. No one saw him coming down the stairs, so the next best thing was to put him near them. If Oswald had been coming down the stairs... When Lumpkin and Truly went to tell Fritz at approximately 1:30 that Oswald was missing, did they tell Fritz that Truly had run into Oswald in the lunchroom? Not to my knowledge. When Johnson took Baker's affidavit, did he go to Fritz and say, "Hey Captain, you know that guy you've got in the interrogation room; well I've got an officer out here who said he ran into that guy in the lunchroom 90 seconds after the shooting? Not to my knowledge. Steve Thomas
  24. Did Baker actually see Oswald in the lunch room, or just infer it? "Mr. DULLES - Could I ask one question before you ask this question, and this is a bit of a leading question, and think carefully. If Oswald had been coming down the stairs and going into the lunchroom would he have been following the course insofar as you saw a course, that he--that you saw him follow? Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir. The reason I say that, this hallway to the right. Mr. BELIN - By the right you mean the hallway that goes to the-- this is-- Mr. BAKER - This is a hallway right here. Mr. BELIN - It is a hallway that has the number 27 on it? Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; from what I understand these are offices in there. Mr. DULLES - Yes. Mr. BAKER - And he had no business in there..." And Baker would know this how, exactly? Mr. BAKER - And he had no business in there., and the lunchroom would be the only place that he would be going..." Oh, that's right. I forgot. After high school graduation, things got a little hazy. Steve Thomas
  25. Cubans sorted by name

    Cory, Along the same lines, I once read that photos of Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro don't exist. I tried looking up his name in that list both ways, but I didn't find him. (At this point in my life, I think that's who DCM is) Dude# 1
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