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Jim Hargrove

Escape from the 6th Floor

63 posts in this topic

There may have been multiple people on the sixth floor, but there was only one shooter. Only one rifle. The plotters would never leave a rifle in a box and walk off to recover it later. Too much risk.

George - this is exactly why I don't think any shots came from there.  There were plenty of others places to do the shooting and to afford a quick get away IMO the TSDB was window dressing.  And to put any OTHER shooters in there would have risked the possibility of whoever else would have been in that building of being seen or exposed. The whole idea was to get LHO in that building and they (Paines) did so in October. Now it was just a matter of getting the other props in there, which they did. The proof that they were props is, of course, the thrown down shell that had a dent in the lip which renders it useless as a bullet shell.

As for the witnesses, Brennan said he saw 80% of the body up there.  Really? The shooter would have had to be leaning almost completely out the window with the gun in order to have done that.  If others saw, that's fine - you can be up there making noise in hopes of people down there noticing you but it doesn't mean there was actually someone up there shooting a gun off.

If the idea was to set up LHO as the killer, why would the planners want to also risk exposing the plan by having additional guns and people in there?  They had to have known that if they wanted to start the whispering campaign that LHO did it, that the cops would have been rushing in there in a matter of minutes.  It's like what magicians do - they do one thing while distracting you to look elsewhere.

Regarding PM - if that's really LHO standing up there in the vestibule, then that may be why he was not killed inside of the building. Perhaps they told him to be elsewhere in the building and would have been confronted and shot.  It's possible.  But old Lee didn't do that, he was "out front with Shelly."

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There may have been multiple people on the sixth floor, but there was only one shooter. Only one rifle.

What about the controversial rifle stamped "Mauser" that Roger Craig witnessed, or the mysterious second rifle glimpsed in the Alyea film?

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Posted (edited)

53 minutes ago, David Andrews said:

What about the controversial rifle stamped "Mauser" that Roger Craig witnessed, or the mysterious second rifle glimpsed in the Alyea film?

Roger Craig was a proven l-i-a-r, as I demonstrate here....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2016/10/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1194.html

And the "mysterious second rifle" in Tom Alyea's film is undoubtedly a gun taken up to the sixth floor by the Dallas Police, possibly the same one that we can see being held by a police detective in plain clothes in the Alyea footage (fast-forward to the 1:57 mark in the video below)....

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8UwZ588YcqIdkFIY1dPclZjUjA/view

 

Edited by David Von Pein

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

Roger Craig was a proven l-i-a-r, as I demonstrate here....

Deprecating Officer Craig is shameful. I hope it makes you queasy when you make such claims.

A reader of this thread can watch this video and decide for themselves if Officer Craig is credible, instead of going to David Von Pines site where the matter can not be discussed here.

 

Edited by Michael Clark

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3 hours ago, David Andrews said:

There may have been multiple people on the sixth floor, but there was only one shooter. Only one rifle.

What about the controversial rifle stamped "Mauser" that Roger Craig witnessed, or the mysterious second rifle glimpsed in the Alyea film?

i've wondered about this image of a long-gun on that film, appearing to lean against some boxes or some pole; i finally decided that it looks to me like a shotgun, i.e. a Dallas PO's shotgun. But what confuses me most, if that is what it is, is why in the world the owner - much more a Dallas Policeman - would lean a gun muzzle down, to the ground.

man, when i was 12 years old the first three things i was taught about my hunting rifle was how to carry it, how to cross a fence with it and how NOT to lean it - when you had to (is never a good idea to lean a rifle, right?). You do NOT put the muzzle in the dirt, on the ground, either.

so we have Dallas Police officers leaning a shotgun, AND with the muzzle down???

really?

to me, pretty weird.

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1 hour ago, Michael Clark said:

I hope it makes you queasy when you make such claims.

Michael - 

the ENTIRE reason DVP claims this stuff is for the emotion he experiences when he does so - and it's a guarantee that 'queasiness' is not it.

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3 hours ago, David Andrews said:

There may have been multiple people on the sixth floor, but there was only one shooter. Only one rifle.

What about the controversial rifle stamped "Mauser" that Roger Craig witnessed, or the mysterious second rifle glimpsed in the Alyea film?

AND, tell me where i'm wrong, but i think several more people than just Craig identified the rifle at first as a Mauser, well before the news media first began reporting that a German Mauser had been discovered (I really don't think that Walter Kronkite, et al, would have been reporting "Mauser" on the word of one background cop - which is what he was on the 6th floor...).

so, right - 'controversial' is an understatement.

fodder for persons like DVP... :)

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7 minutes ago, Glenn Nall said:

Michael - 

the ENTIRE reason DVP claims this stuff is for the emotion he experiences when he does so - and it's a guarantee that 'queasiness' is not it.

Glenn, One can only hope...

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7 hours ago, George Sawtelle said:

There may have been multiple people on the sixth floor, but there was only one shooter. Only one rifle. The plotters would never leave a rifle in a box and walk off to recover it later. Too much risk.

this is strictly a matter of opinion. i only mentioned the boxes as a suggestion - i have to believe that people smart enough to have concocted - successfully - the assassination of the POTUS were smart enough to hide a rifle or two - ESPECIALLY since they were smart enough to get the damn thing IN there under calm circumstances.

Any unknown male, client or otherwise, seen in the building would arouse suspicion.

speculative, at best, and I completely disagree. this is to assert that EVERYBODY knew EVERYBODY, which is just not the case. As far as I know, there weren't even sign-in logs at the door. and Mrs Reid even admitted that she only recognized Oswald by face - didn't even know his name. so, NO, everybody did NOT know everybody.

sorry.

 

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Regarding shooting from the TSBD, I've always thought that some shots may have come from the 6th floor SW corner, and if any even came from the SE corner at all, they were "distraction" shots, designed to confuse witnesses and muddy up the waters.

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2 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

Deprecating Officer Craig is shameful. I hope it makes you queasy when you make such claims.

A reader of this thread can watch this video and decide for themselves if Officer Craig is credible, instead of going to David Von Pines site where the matter can not be discussed here.

 

the fact that multiple attempts were made on Roger Craig's life - until one was successful - tells me all i need to know. He had apparently upset the wrong people.

was it because he never liked his ex-boss? i doubt it - at least at the "professional" level...

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Just now, Roger DeLaria said:

Regarding shooting from the TSBD, I've always thought that some shots may have come from the 6th floor SW corner, and if any even came from the SE corner at all, they were "distraction" shots, designed to confuse witnesses and muddy up the waters.

yeah, i'm real strong on some SW corner activity, of whatever kind, too.

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Posted (edited)

 

10 minutes ago, Glenn Nall said:

the fact that multiple attempts were made on Roger Craig's life - until one was successful - tells me all i need to know. He had apparently upset the wrong people.

was it because he never liked his ex-boss? i doubt it - at least at the "professional" level...

Roger Craig died from a high-powered rifle shot to the chest, days after Seymour Weitzman was interviewed and said that Bernard Barker (Watergate burgler) was a disguised SS officer on the grassy knoll. Weitzman also corroborated Roger Craig's testimony that the rifle found in the TSBD was a Mauser. Roger Craig's and Weitzman's movements through Dealy Plaza, on 11-22-63, mirror one another's. Craig's, above, Interview was done about a year before he died from that rifle shot to the chest. I need to look into whether it was scheduled or presumed that he would testify to the HSCA.

Cheers,

Michael

Edited by Michael Clark

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Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

The image referred to ( http://harveyandlee.net/TSBD_Elevator/6th_Floor_Oz.jpg ) is of Badgeman quality.

right. "Eidolon" comes to mind - especially since I just learned that word while looking for another one... :)  

 

Several of the superimposed dotted lines don't actually correspond to tonal boundaries in the image. Take away the dotted lines and you'd have trouble discerning any type of human face there, let alone one that looks like Oswald.

this has always bothered me about the badgeman "image." the human mind - even mine - is enormously gullible to suggestion. i am open to the possibility (probability, even) of someone impersonating a cop behind the fence, but, try as i have, i have been completely unable to see what the assistance of several well meaning artists have tried to tell me to see. no telling how many people are walking around fully convinced that badgeman (and a man in a hardhat next to him) was photographed strictly because they've been shown what to see.

NOT that I don't believe it's not there. I just wish i could see what others have seen without their artistic "assistance."

my eyes are more convinced of a human form in the west window than they are of badgeman.

 

The whole 'Harvey and Lee and Marguerite and Marguerite' concept requires a religious-fundamentalist level of faith?, but only the most uncritical believers will go along with this part.

hmm... i think you're stretching it, respectfully. while there's no question Armstrong has stretched his points to an extreme, chronological/geographical/testimonial incongruencies (?) in O's and M's history are enough for me to consider the possibilities. In light of the enormity of this event, and all the moving parts that had to have been involved, i remain open to almost anything - balanced with "feet on the ground" logic as I can maintain - until the presenter shoots his/herself in the foot with some really poor logic - which is WAY too often, unfortunately. and i don't count myself at all as "uncritical." Quite the contrary. I just refrain from concrete theory in deference to actual truth-seeking.

respectfully.

 

Edited by Glenn Nall

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1968:

QUESTION: "Did you handle that rifle [that was pulled from the boxes on the sixth floor of the TSBD]?"

ROGER CRAIG: "Yes, I did. I couldn't give its name because I don't know foreign rifles."


CIRCA 1974:

ROGER CRAIG: "Stamped right on the barrel of the rifle was '7.65 Mauser'."

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