John Simkin

Dan E. Moldea

56 posts in this topic

Micah:

I think you are missing the worst part by not having RFK in the drawing.

If I recall correctly, the LAPD says that the bullet that hit Schrade was the same one that hit RFK, and that the bullet went through Kennedy's jacket going from back to front.  

 

Dan Moldea's work on the RFK and JFK cases has been, to say the least, not very helpful.  I will never forget how he cooperated with the other side to attack Oliver Stone and JFK when it first came out.  Him and Blakey and their nutty Mafia did it schemes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

24 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Micah:

I think you are missing the worst part by not having RFK in the drawing.

If I recall correctly, the LAPD says that the bullet that hit Schrade was the same one that hit RFK, and that the bullet went through Kennedy's jacket going from back to front.  

 

Dan Moldea's work on the RFK and JFK cases has been, to say the least, not very helpful.  I will never forget how he cooperated with the other side to attack Oliver Stone and JFK when it first came out.  Him and Blakey and their nutty Mafia did it schemes.

BTW

Is it fair to say that even if Sirhan did say "...because that son of a bitch turned his head at the last second", he was joking? Lisa Pease talked about Sirhan's sense of humor in the same BOR show.

 

Suddenly, in the midst of their conversation, Sirhan started to explain the moment when his eyes met Kennedy's just before he shot him. Shocked by what Sirhan had just admitted, McCowan asked, "Then why, Sirhan, didn't you shoot him between the eyes?" With no hesitation and no apparent remorse, Sirhan replied, "Because that son of a bitch turned his head at the last second."

Edited by Micah Mileto

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Sirhan never said any such thing.  

And I exposed that in my long essay on Moldea in the book The Assassinations.  (see pages 628-31)

Edited by James DiEugenio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you don't have that book, you should get it since it is a good way to get familiar with  the other cases besides JFK.

Moldea got that fantastic vignette from what strongly appears to be a plant in Sirhan's camp, a guy named McCown.  And I explain in detail all the evidence for that.  It is considerable.

Further, in printing it, Moldea broke his word with Adel Sirhan and Lynn Mangin, Sirhan's chief researcher.  He said he would give everyone the opportunity to reply to anything they felt was false or wrongly stated. As you can see from the book, neither Adel nor Lynn had the opportunity to reply.  Sirhan has never ever been able to recall the shooting sequence, even under deep hypnosis by professionals.  But yet Moldea wants us to believe he did under normal consciousness for McCown, a guy he did not even like.

The scenario that Moldea must uphold for McCown's story to be accurate is simply unbelievable.  Because of the height and distant discrepancies, Sirhan had to jump forward and then crunch down since the bullet came in at an upward angle.  No one saw that. Further, Sirhan would then have had to run around RFK to inflict three other shots in the back area. How could that happen?  First, no one saw that, and second, Uecker, a very stocky and strong man was on Sirhan like a bulldog.

Finally, this scenario opposes what Moldea said actually happened just a few pages before. This was the idea that the crowd pushed RFK forward three feet to explain the point blank wounds. How could that happen if SIrhan was running around RFK?

Moldea's book is a mess.  That is why I spent 21 pages critiquing it.  

He is even worse on this case then he is on JFK.  Which is saying something. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

 

This is Mel Ayton's last comment from 2006, quoted below:

 

Quote

Readers beware - Hunt has constructed this scenario through one error I made in a previous post when I left out a short phrase. As you will see from the following 'scenario' 8 shots account for all wounds and bullet holes:

There are a number of possibilities that can explain the trajectories of the shots without resorting to the possibility of a second gun. Thomas Noguchi and Dan Moldea concluded there was no one who could positively say to a 100% degree of certainty how the bullets travelled. A number of possible explanations, which are contrary to the official version, can account for the paths of the bullets.

There were four stray bullets:

1. The bullet that passed through Kennedy’s jacket without striking him

2. The through-and-through bullet that exited from Kennedy’s chest.

3. The bullet that struck the pantry ceiling and exited through one of the ceiling tiles.

4. The bullet that was supposedly lost in the pantry ceiling interspace.

There are other scenarios that could account for the 8 shots – as Vincent Bugliosi said, “If (Wolfer’s) report is in error, for whatever reason, then there might be an explanation for some of these things: ricochets, parts of bullets, fragments. This whole notion of a second gun is premised on the assumption (Wolfer’s) report is correct.”

BULLET 1 - Missed Kennedy and struck Paul Schrade in the forehead.

BULLET 2 - The shoulder pad shot as RFK was raising his arm – this bullet then possibly hit one of the other four victims after travelling upwards to the ceiling tiles and ricocheting. The main candidate for this shot is Elizabeth Evans. Evans believed she was bending down at the time of the shooting – the bullet could have ricocheted off the pantry floor, then struck Evans in the head - or, she could have been standing upright when the bullet ricocheted a second time off the floor. This bullet could account for two of the ceiling tile holes, entry and exit.

BULLET 3 – The bullet that hit Kennedy in his right armpit and lodged in the back of his neck. This bullet was recovered.

BULLET 4 - The bullet that hit RFK in the mastoid. This was the shot that was fatal. Bullet fragments were recovered.

BULLET 5 – The bullet that went through Ira Goldstein’s left pant leg without striking him – this bullet could have hit Irwin Stroll – the bullet was recovered during surgery.

BULLET 6 – The bullet that hit William Weisel in the abdomen and was recovered during surgery.

BULLET 7 – The bullet that was lost in the ceiling interspace. This may very well have been the bullet that entered then exited RFK’s chest and travelled upwards.

BULLET 8 – The bullet that hit Goldstein in the thigh and was recovered.

Three ceiling tile holes are accounted for in the above scenario. The alleged bullet holes in the pantry door were too small to be made by .22 caliber bullets. In fact they were not made by bullets at all as Moldea discovered.

I don't know enough about the case to see if this is a valid scenario or not. Has the conspiracy claim ever been that there is too much officially acknowledged damage to account for even given some serious acrobatics by Sirhan and his bullets?

Edited by Micah Mileto

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Read the autopsy report! It appeared to be a "contact" shot to the head that killed Bobby. There was gunpowder burn. No witness places Sirhan or his gun within 1 inch of the back of Bobby's head.                        There was a second gun unless the coroner was completely inept!

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Ken Davies said:

Read the autopsy report! It appeared to be a "contact" shot to the head that killed Bobby. There was gunpowder burn. No witness places Sirhan or his gun within 1 inch of the back of Bobby's head.                        There was a second gun unless the coroner was completely inept!

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, but the Dan Moldeas and Mel Aytons of the world don't care. Is it technically possible to have an 8-shot scenario with the officially acknowledged damage to the bystanders, floor, ceiling? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20151006/board-oks-settlement-over-principal-who-hypnotized-students

 

There was a well-publicized news story about a School principal who taught some of his students hypnosis, and how to hypnotize themselves. Two separate kids committed suicide shortly after being hypnotized, one died in a car accident after apparently hypnotizing themselves at the wheel. How different is suicide via hypnosis compared to a Manchurian candidate? Already we have strong evidence here that hypnosis can make you do things common knowledge would say it couldn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Is it fair to say that even if Sirhan did say "...because that son of a bitch turned his head at the last second", he was joking? Lisa Pease talked about Sirhan's sense of humor in the same BOR show.

Suddenly, in the midst of their conversation, Sirhan started to explain the moment when his eyes met Kennedy's just before he shot him. Shocked by what Sirhan had just admitted, McCowan asked, "Then why, Sirhan, didn't you shoot him between the eyes?" With no hesitation and no apparent remorse, Sirhan replied, "Because that son of a bitch turned his head at the last second."

Once upon a time at NYU, I was in a very large Psychology class - held in a auditorium - where the professor attempted to hypnotize us all.  We had to sign disclaimers beforehand.  I was one of the few that did not go under, but only because the sensation and the setting made me feel like I was falling asleep in class.  So I jerked back into consciousness, and sat with a few scattered others watching the majority of the group raise first one hand, then the other, on command.

I have wondered since whether parts of hypnosis do not consist of the desire to please the hypnotist, to go along with the program in order to satisfy and be rewarded, and if succumbing to hypnotic suggestion is not a product of wanting also to achieve one's own goals and needs.  (In contrast, I, and maybe others, had been conditioned to stay awake in class and avoid censure.)  So, the Sirhan comment above.  Could you hypnotize someone who tells such "jokes"?

Edited by David Andrews

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Micah:

This is not the place for RFK, but I hope you do get The Assassinations.  You will see how Lisa and myself blew this apart.

For example, bullet two is going back to front in RFK's jacket.

BTW, notice that Ayton does not say what did cause the pantry door holes if they were not bullet holes.  I wouldn't either.  He says they were nicks caused by aluminum carts on wheels. :lol:

And that is just the beginning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now