Sandy Larsen Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Quote by Sandy "You and Ray crack me up. You so much want that guy to be Lovelady that you don't believe your own two eyes and will make all kinds of excuses for the differences in looks." Why on Earth would I want the guy to look like Lovelady? I have no pet theory I am trying to prove. In the past, I have corrected fellow Conspiracy Truthers (e.g.Cinque) when they have said daft things which were obviously wrong. Looks like I still have to. Explain the differences in ear sizes, Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) Quote by Sandy "You and Ray crack me up. You so much want that guy to be Lovelady that you don't believe your own two eyes and will make all kinds of excuses for the differences in looks." Why on Earth would I want the guy to look like Lovelady? I have no pet theory I am trying to prove. In the past, I have corrected fellow Conspiracy Truthers (e.g.Cinque) when they have said daft things which were obviously wrong. Looks like I still have to. Explain the differences in ear sizes, Ray. Dear Sandy, Lighting. Lighting. Lighting. (The "studio" lighting makes his ear practically glow in the Groden photo, and his ear is 90% "surrounded" by the very dark shadow behind him. The stark contrast between that virtual white and virtual black makes his ear look "large" compared to the way it looks in the "Dwarf Man" photo. Ear-wise, there's much less such contrast in that photo because his ear isn't lit up nearly as much, and also because there's no dark shadow behind him to contrast it with, just his own dark hair behind about half of it.) Oh yeah, and maybe a little bit of Perspective. BTW, did you notice Lovelady's "dot" (hair? mole?) I pointed out in the photos, Sandy? -- Tommy PS Here's an interesting blowup from the Robert Hughes film showing Lovelady, wearing his open-to-the-chest long-sleeved reddish shirt over a white t-shirt and standing next to the wall on the TSBD steps (before moving to the center hand rail and leaning forward as was "captured" in Altgens 6 a few seconds later). Note that Lovelady turns his head all the way around to his right for a second, and apparently interacts with someone standing behind him (Prayer Man?). -- Tommy Edited October 27, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 When was the photo on the left taken? bump Robert, The still on the right is supposedly from the same video that was posted earlier (a few pages ago), which is where Dallas police are taking Oswald into Fritz's office. But you won't see the above still there. According to Ralph Cinque, that video was "done" in the 1970s. And according to Cinque, an earlier segment of the same video, from which the above still was taken, was "done" much later, possibly in the 21st century. That is, the segment was a later add-on to the video. A lot of people ridicule Ralph Cinque for his theories and ideas. I've read his stuff and I can see that he often reads a lot into something simple. But he's made some observations that are legitimate and should be up for discussion. Unfortunately some people try to shut the discussion down by labeling it as being Cinquesque or Fetzeresque. I consider that to be is a lazy man's tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 BTW, did you notice Lovelady's "dot" (hair? mole?) I pointed out in the photos, Sandy? You were comparing a feature in four photos that I am not (currently) disputing. So I didn't put much thought into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) When was the photo on the left taken? bump Robert, The still on the right is supposedly from the same video that was posted earlier (a few pages ago), which is where Dallas police are taking Oswald into Fritz's office. But you won't see the above still there. According to Ralph Cinque, that video was "done" in the 1970s. And according to Cinque, an earlier segment of the same video, from which the above still was taken, was "done" much later, possibly in the 21st century. That is, the segment was a later add-on to the video. A lot of people ridicule Ralph Cinque for his theories and ideas. I've read his stuff and I can see that he often reads a lot into something simple. But he's made some observations that are legitimate and should be up for discussion. Unfortunately some people try to shut the discussion down by labeling it as being Cinquesque or Fetzeresque. I consider that to be is a lazy man's tactic. Dear Sandy, Have you seen this small segment of the "elevator-to-interrogation room" footage shot by Charles Buck of (ABC) WFAA-TV on 11/22/63? Look closely at the end and you'll see Lovelady turning his head towards the camera, but since the video / film has been cropped, we only see the very top of his head. [Credit; Chris Davidson] You can read about this footage here: (Backes mistakenly calls Charles Buck "Charles Butt." lol) http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19115&page=2 -- Tommy Hey Sandy! Does the scene below look familiar? (FWIW, that's the back of Oswald's head to the far left of the frame.) Sandy Larsen said: "The still on the right is supposedly from the same [Charles Buck] video that was posted earlier (a few pages ago), which is where Dallas police are taking Oswald into Fritz's office. But you won't see the above still there." Edited October 27, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 When was the photo on the left taken? bump Robert, The still on the right is supposedly from the same video that was posted earlier (a few pages ago), which is where Dallas police are taking Oswald into Fritz's office. But you won't see the above still there. According to Ralph Cinque, that video was "done" in the 1970s. And according to Cinque, an earlier segment of the same video, from which the above still was taken, was "done" much later, possibly in the 21st century. That is, the segment was a later add-on to the video. A lot of people ridicule Ralph Cinque for his theories and ideas. I've read his stuff and I can see that he often reads a lot into something simple. But he's made some observations that are legitimate and should be up for discussion. Unfortunately some people try to shut the discussion down by labeling it as being Cinquesque or Fetzeresque. I consider that to be is a lazy man's tactic. Dear Sandy, Have you seen this small segment of the "elevator-to-interrogation room" footage shot by Charles Buck of (ABC) WFAA-TV on 11/22/63? Look closely at the end and you'll see Lovelady turning his head towards the camera, but since the video / film has been cropped, we only see the very top of his head. [Credit; Chris Davidson] You can read about this footage here: (Backes mistakenly calls Charles Buck "Charles Butt." lol) http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19115&page=2 -- Tommy Yes Tommy, I've seen that. That is the video I was referring to in my post to Robert that you are replying to. Thanks for re-posting it. The still Robert was asking about supposedly comes from this same video, but occurs before what see here. You say the video has been cropped and therefore we don't see Lovelady's face at the end. But even if it weren't cropped we still might not be able to see Lovelady's face. Because at the very end he bends over, as if to tie a shoelace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) When was the photo on the left taken? bump Robert, The still on the right is supposedly from the same video that was posted earlier (a few pages ago), which is where Dallas police are taking Oswald into Fritz's office. But you won't see the above still there. According to Ralph Cinque, that video was "done" in the 1970s. And according to Cinque, an earlier segment of the same video, from which the above still was taken, was "done" much later, possibly in the 21st century. That is, the segment was a later add-on to the video. A lot of people ridicule Ralph Cinque for his theories and ideas. I've read his stuff and I can see that he often reads a lot into something simple. But he's made some observations that are legitimate and should be up for discussion. Unfortunately some people try to shut the discussion down by labeling it as being Cinquesque or Fetzeresque. I consider that to be is a lazy man's tactic. Dear Sandy, Have you seen this small segment of the "elevator-to-interrogation room" footage shot by Charles Buck of (ABC-affiliate) WFAA-TV on 11/22/63? Look closely at the end and you'll see Lovelady turning his head towards the camera, but since the video / film has been cropped, we only see the very top of his head. [Credit; Chris Davidson] You can read about this footage here: (Backes mistakenly calls Charles Buck "Charles Butt." lol) http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19115&page=2 -- Tommy Hey Sandy! Does the scene below look familiar? (FWIW, that's the back of Oswald's head to the far left of the frame.) Sandy Larsen said: "The still on the right is supposedly from the same [Charles Buck] video that was posted earlier (a few pages ago), which is where Dallas police are taking Oswald into Fritz's office. But you won't see the above still there." Bumped. Because I think Larsen replied to it before I'd finished editing it and augmenting it. -- Tommy Edited October 27, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) Disregard Cinque's words here, but please note the just-visible "dot" (hair?, mole?) at the left edge of Lovelady's eyebrow in the "1957" photo. I'm talking about his left eyebrow on "our" right. -- Tommy We can see the same "dot" in both of these images: -- Tommy So now all we've got to do is figure out what Shelley did after he walked over to the "island" about 20 seconds after the assassination, and what Lovelady did after he ran down Elm Street Extension to the the railway yard / parking lot (if he made it that far). bumped Howdy Bob, See post #142 by David Lifton. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18697?&page=10 Turns out devious ol' Lovelady was wearing a very similar, but different, shirt for Groden in 1976. So Sandy was right, It's a different shirt. Big deal. Hmmm. Twelve or thirteen years between the assassination and when Groden took the photographs. Lovelady may very well have thrown out the original shirt by that time. Lovelady should have "fessed" up to Harris and Groden instead of trying to replicate the shirt, himself, without their realizing it. -- Tommy Lifton "Furthermore, if you compare the striped pattern, they are obviously different. Yes, both are plaid shirts, so they are certainly similar. But the vertical stripes in the shirt worn in the Martin film are distinctly different from the vertical stripes in the 1976 photo. Also, the shirt Lovelady was wearing has a distinctly visible pocket in the left breast area—whereas the shirt Lovelady was wearing when he posed for Groden in 1976 has no such pocket." Litton is wrong in saying the vertical stripes in both photos don't match. They do. In neither photo are the black stripes vertical on the body of the shirt, but they are on the sleeves. Litton was also incorrect in saying that the shirt in the Groden photo (the left of the two"Loveladys" shown above) did not have a breast pocket. I showed this to be the case several years ago. (Look at the photo and you can see the outline of the pocket to the right of the first stripe to the (our )right). If they are the only reasons, then Lifton is wrong. Unfortunately, at the moment I am unable to upload a photo showing this, as I can't access Photobucket where the photo is. I will post it as soon as I can. Ray, In a nutshell, do you think the two shirts ("Grodon's" and "Neanderthal Man's") are the same, or just very similar? -- Tommy In a nutshell, Tommy, IMO they are the same. To Sandy. Cinque is just barmy. Edited October 27, 2016 by Ray Mitcham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 When was the photo on the left taken? bump Robert, The still on the right is supposedly from the same video that was posted earlier (a few pages ago), which is where Dallas police are taking Oswald into Fritz's office. But you won't see the above still there. According to Ralph Cinque, that video was "done" in the 1970s. And according to Cinque, an earlier segment of the same video, from which the above still was taken, was "done" much later, possibly in the 21st century. That is, the segment was a later add-on to the video. A lot of people ridicule Ralph Cinque for his theories and ideas. I've read his stuff and I can see that he often reads a lot into something simple. But he's made some observations that are legitimate and should be up for discussion. Unfortunately some people try to shut the discussion down by labeling it as being Cinquesque or Fetzeresque. I consider that to be is a lazy man's tactic. Dear Sandy, Have you seen this small segment of the "elevator-to-interrogation room" footage shot by Charles Buck of (ABC-affiliate) WFAA-TV on 11/22/63? Look closely at the end and you'll see Lovelady turning his head towards the camera, but since the video / film has been cropped, we only see the very top of his head. [Credit; Chris Davidson] You can read about this footage here: (Backes mistakenly calls Charles Buck "Charles Butt." lol) http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19115&page=2 -- Tommy I just realized that Lovelady faces the camera before he begins to bend down. Hey Sandy! Does the scene below look familiar? (FWIW, that's the back of Oswald's head to the far left of the frame.) Yes, of course. That's the frame from which the still was taken that Robert was asking about. Why do you ask? Sandy Larsen said: "The still on the right is supposedly from the same [Charles Buck] video that was posted earlier (a few pages ago), which is where Dallas police are taking Oswald into Fritz's office. But you won't see the above still there." Bumped. Because I think Larsen replied to it before I'd finished editing it and augmenting it. -- Tommy See my reply above, in blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) Why do you ask? -- Sandy Larsen Dear Sandy, Oh! Never mind. I was afraid Cinque had convinced you that the "Mystery Still With The Dwarf Man Sitting In A Chair" was from some bad-guys' production which wasn't shot at two-minutes-past-two on 11/22/63. but "sometime in the 1970's," instead. LOL My bad. -- Tommy Edited October 27, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) When was the photo on the left taken? bump Robert, The still on the right is supposedly from the same video that was posted earlier (a few pages ago), which is where Dallas police are taking Oswald into Fritz's office. But you won't see the above still there. According to Ralph Cinque, that video was "done" in the 1970s. And according to Cinque, an earlier segment of the same video, from which the above still was taken, was "done" much later, possibly in the 21st century. That is, the segment was a later add-on to the video. A lot of people ridicule Ralph Cinque for his theories and ideas. I've read his stuff and I can see that he often reads a lot into something simple. But he's made some observations that are legitimate and should be up for discussion. Unfortunately some people try to shut the discussion down by labeling it as being Cinquesque or Fetzeresque. I consider that to be is a lazy man's tactic. Dear Sandy, Have you seen this small segment of the "elevator-to-interrogation room" footage shot by Charles Buck of (ABC) WFAA-TV on 11/22/63? Look closely at the end and you'll see Lovelady turning his head towards the camera, but since the video / film has been cropped, we only see the very top of his head. [Credit; Chris Davidson] You can read about this footage here: (Backes mistakenly calls Charles Buck "Charles Butt." lol) http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19115&page=2 -- Tommy Yes Tommy, I've seen that. That is the video I was referring to in my post to Robert that you are replying to. Thanks for re-posting it. The still Robert was asking about supposedly comes from this same video, but occurs before what see here. You say the video has been cropped and therefore we don't see Lovelady's face at the end. But even if it weren't cropped we still might not be able to see Lovelady's face. Because at the very end he bends over, as if to tie a shoelace. Dear Sandy, It's pretty obvious (to me at least) that this un-cropped frame ..... ..... is from about two seconds before Chris Davidson's gif begins. Oswald's being practically jerked from the far left to right is the key. Also note how Lovelady, at the very very very very split-second beginning of the gif, is just finishing turning his head from left to right. And then, of course (to make my explaining as difficult as possible), he turns it a little more! Edited October 27, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Why do you ask? -- Sandy Larsen Dear Sandy, Oh! Never mind. I was afraid Cinque had convinced you that the "Mystery Still With The Dwarf Man Sitting In A Chair" was from some bad-guys' production which wasn't shot at two-minutes-past-two on 11/22/63. but "sometime in the 1970's," instead. LOL My bad. -- Tommy My point to Robert was that the still he was asking about isn't to be found in the video posted in this thread. It is found in an alleged prequel to that video. It would be nice if someone would post the whole video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) Why do you ask? -- Sandy Larsen Dear Sandy, Oh! Never mind. I was afraid Cinque had convinced you that the "Mystery Still With The Dwarf Man Sitting In A Chair" was from some bad-guys' production which wasn't shot at two-minutes-past-two on 11/22/63. but "sometime in the 1970's," instead. LOL My bad. -- Tommy My point to Robert was that the still he was asking about isn't to be found in the video posted in this thread. It is found in an alleged prequel to that video. It would be nice if someone would post the whole video. Dear Sandy, If you were to take the time to read the now-locked JFK Assassination Debate thread I provided the link to you for, you would realize that "the whole enchilada," from elevator to interrogation room, is on a DVD which can be purchased on Amazon, or at least could have been done when the pertinent post was posted on that thread a couple of years ago. That's the only way to view the whole darn thing, AFAIK. -- Tommy Edited October 27, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) Dear Sandy, It's pretty obvious (to me at least) that this un-cropped frame (look familiar?) ..... ..... is from about four seconds before Chris Davidson's gif begins. The progress of the "parade" to the interrogation room on the right, and Oswald's being practically jerked from the far left to right. are the the keys to figuring it out. (In the "still," above, the back of Oswald's head is visible on the far left of the frame.) Also note how Lovelady, at the very very very very split-second beginning of the gif, is just finishing turning his head from left to right. And then, of course (to make my explaining mission as difficult as possible), he pauses, and ... turns it a little more! Edited October 27, 2016 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Tommy, do you have the link for the DVD you mention? I've tried finding it in the original post but can't find the link. (Must be getting old) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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