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#1 William Kelly

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 06:48 AM

Doug Horne IARRB Chapter 13

The "Air Force One" Audiotapes

One of the most intriguing, and frustrating, records of the assassination are the heavily edited "Air Force One" audiotapes available from the LBJ Presidential Library in Texas. Colleague Joan Zimmerman, who was as curious about the autopsy and the role of the Secret Service the night of the autopsy as I was, spent two whole days with me at the Archives II facility in College Park, Maryland—October 10-11, 1995—studying the tapes. The result was my first ARRB "research memo," completed on October 17, 1995. I am referencing it now as I write up this brief section.

The tapes were recorded by the White House Communications Agency (WHCA), which is responsible for coordinating all Presidential communications. The total length of the edited conversations on the three audiocassettes is approximately 2 hours; a disclaimer at the beginning says the tapes are "edited and condensed," but does not indicate who did the editing or how much material was deleted.

The tapes are recordings of in-flight conversations that occurred on November 22, 1963 between SAM 26000 (Air Force One), SAM 86972 (the aircraft carrying several Cabinet officials and Press Secretary Pierre Salinger from Hawaii to Japan when JFK was assassinated), Andrews AFB, "Liberty" (the "Fish Bowl," run by Collins Radio in Cedar Rapids, Iowa—the outfit patching all of the radio calls back and forth between the different parties), and "Crown" (the White House Situation Room in the West Wing of the White House).

The purpose of the 2-day visit to the Archives was to determine whether there were any significant reasons to pursue the unedited, full length version of the recordings. There were; we did; and neither the Air Force nor the White House Communications Agency exhibited any interest or cooperation whatsoever. The ARRB's inability to locate the unedited recordings was my second biggest

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disappointment while working there. (My biggest disappointment, of course, was not taking the depositions of the Dallas doctors in the presence of the autopsy photographs.) Four frequencies were identified on the tape as being in use that night, and a memo written by USAF Master Sergeant John C. Trimble (the radio operator aboard Air Force One on 11/22/63) stated that he "...had three phone patches going simultaneously for much of the time..." during the flight back to Andrews AFB from Love Field. Since the flight time from "wheels up" to "on the blocks" at the final destination was 2 hrs. 17 min., it is possible that the total duration of recorded conversation, on all four channels, was anywhere from seven to nine hours long. One of the problems when listening to the tapes is that the listener does not know which "patch" he is listening to at any one time, or whether or not the various conversations on the edited tapes are recorded in the right time sequence in relation to each other (since there were three circuits in use almost continuously).

Some of the 'investigative leads' I noted in my memo of October 17, 1995 are summarized below:

• Secret Service Agent Roy Kellerman, and later U.S. Army General Ted Clifton (Military Aide to President Kennedy) make it clear on the radio that their desire is for an ambulance and a limousine to take President Kennedy's body to Walter Reed (not Bethesda) for autopsy "...under guard...," as specified by General Clifton.

• Gerald Behn, Head of the Secret Service White House Detail (speaking from "Crown"), counters that a helicopter has been arranged to take the President's body to the National Naval Medical Center at Bethesda for autopsy, and that all other personnel will be choppered to the south grounds of the White House.

• Ultimately, Dr. Burkley (onboard Air Force One) sides with Gerald Behn (at the White House) in support of a Bethesda autopsy, and persuades General Heaton (the Surgeon General of the Army, in Washington) to cancel arrangements for a Walter Reed autopsy.

• After Bethesda has been selected as the autopsy site, the mode of transportation to Bethesda is discussed. Burkley and Clifton insist that JFK's body be transported by ambulance (vice helicopter), even though JFK's Naval aide, CAPT Shepard, has assured Behn that it would be no problem for a helicopter to carry the heavy casket.

• Unaccountably, even though ambulance transport had been selected for JFK's body, Gerald Behn directs Kellerman on the radio: "You accompany the body aboard the helicopter." [Question: Was Behn aware that the bronze Dallas casket was empty and that JFK's body was in the forward luggage compartment?]

• General Clifton insists upon, and then repeats, in great detail, orders for the following ground support at Andrews AFB upon arrival: a forklift and platform at the left rear of the aircraft for the casket; a personnel ramp at the left front of the aircraft for the debarkation of President Johnson and the other passengers; and another personnel ramp at the right front of the airplane (the dark, unlit side where there is a galley door) for the departure of Jacqueline Kennedy. [Mrs. Kennedy did not use the forward starboard galley door to leave the aircraft in secret; she insisted on staying with the Dallas casket, which threw a monkey wrench in the conspirators' likely plans to reunite JFK's body with the Dallas casket at Walter Reed hospital prior to taking the bronze coffin to Bethesda.]

At one point Roy Kellerman says to Gerald Behn: "I'm sure the Volunteer boys will go over his car and so forth." ("Volunteer" was the WHCA code word used for LBJ.) Late in the flight, as Air Force One nears Andrews, someone is heard discussing the status of the flight carrying the two vehicles—the Presidential limousine and the Queen Mary—back to Washington. [The "Volunteer boys" is surely a reference to Secret Service agents assigned to LBJ; I wonder whether Kellerman was discussingan impending search of the Presidential limousine, in an attempt to remove any of the 'wrong' kind of evidence—such as evidence of shots from the front striking the automobile?]

• Background chatter can be heard at one point, discussing a "limousine and ambulance at Andrews," and at another juncture, as part of this same background chatter, the phrase "black Cadillac" can be heard. [A hearse is a black Cadillac.]

• During the flight, "SAM Command Post" (undefined) calls Air Force One and a Colonel 'Arnbuck' (phonetic spelling) expresses a concern from the Chief of Staff (almost certainly Air Force Chief of Staff Curtis LeMay) as to whether President Johnson and Mr. Kennedy's body are onboard the aircraft.

• During the flight, several players make plans to separate Mrs. Kennedy from JFK's body [i.e., the Dallas casket] after landing. General Clifton is the person who asked for a personnel ramp after landing at the forward starboard galley door for Mrs. Kennedy's debarkation. Gerald Behn attempts on two occasions to separate all passengers aboard Air Force One from JFK's body after landing (desiring to send 'the body' to Bethesda via helicopter, and all other passengers to the south grounds of the White House via helicopter also). [Since we now know—thanks to the Boyajian document—that the Dallas casket had to be empty when it was offloaded from Air Force One, the repeated interest in separating JBK from the Dallas casket indicates an intention to reunite the body with the casket prior to the autopsy.]

• Immediately after Behn ordered Kellerman to "...accompany the body aboard the helicopter," the following exchange took place:

Kellerman: I was unable to get ahold of Payne and Bob Burke (names are phonetic approximations).

Kellerman or Behn: ...Payne and Burke at the ranch...

Unidentified: ...Payne and Burke were not notified...

1101

• Finally, "Wing" (Kennedy's Air Force aide, General Godfrey McHugh) asks "Crown"(the White House situation room) to contact "Slugger" (USAF Captain Cecil Stoughton), and to direct him to meet the aircraft as soon as possible on the ground at Andrews. A reason is not given, but the urgency and importance of the matter to General McHugh is quite clear because of his tone of voice. "Crown" later informs "Wing" that "Slugger" remained on the ground in Dallas. [Cecil Stoughton took the now infamous photo of Congressman Al Thomas of Houston smiling and winking at LBJ immediately after Johnson had been sworn in as President onboard Air Force One, just prior to takeoff from Love Field. Could LBJ have been concerned about the possibility of the 'wink' photo getting published? He need not have worried;

Cecil Stoughton had better discretion than that. However, he was aware of the political significance of the photograph. When David Lifton called him to ask him about the photo just prior to its publication in Best Evidence, Stoughton expressed surprise and alarm, and asked Lifton how he knew about it. Apparently, the LBJ Library had printed it for Lifton by mistake; Stoughton clearly thought it had been suppressed. Author Richard Trask writes (on page 47 of Pictures of the Pain) that the negative of the 'wink photo' has now disappeared from the LBJ Library.]







Edited by William Kelly, 26 February 2010 - 06:50 AM.


#2 Bernice Moore

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 08:56 AM

''One of the most intriguing, and frustrating, records of the assassination are the heavily edited "Air Force One" audiotapes available from the LBJ Presidential Library in Texas''

BILL WE ARE BEGINNING TO SEE A PATTERN HERE THE DALLAS radio PARKLAND INTERVIEWS tapes were also secluded and found within the lbj library what else has been...or has this been noted and looked into in the past..i do not know...it makes one wonder if his library has been used as a hideaway by some within the government or if he had copies of such within his records that were not passed along or shared or secured where they should have been on his orders...?? thanks..b

#3 William Kelly

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 04:41 AM

''One of the most intriguing, and frustrating, records of the assassination are the heavily edited "Air Force One" audiotapes available from the LBJ Presidential Library in Texas''

BILL WE ARE BEGINNING TO SEE A PATTERN HERE THE DALLAS radio PARKLAND INTERVIEWS tapes were also secluded and found within the lbj library what else has been...or has this been noted and looked into in the past..i do not know...it makes one wonder if his library has been used as a hideaway by some within the government or if he had copies of such within his records that were not passed along or shared or secured where they should have been on his orders...?? thanks..b



B. I think the LBJ Library released what they had of the edited AF1 radio tapes and transcript and the White House Communications Agency has the original, but won't cough it up.

But the LBJ Library did loose the negative of the wink photo aboard AF1 after the swearing in, a negative that was kept in a vault in the library. So do you think it was stollen by a cat burglar or was it an inside job?

BK

#4 William Kelly

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 04:49 AM

DOUG HORNE IARRB p. 1660

THE AIR FORCE ONE TAPES: MORE EVIDENCE OF A U.S. GOVERNMENT COVERUP

In his 1996 book History Will Not Absolve Us, author E. Martin Schotz writes of Vincent Salandria's discovery in 1966 of an extremely early Government attempt at a simplistic whitewash, placing the sole blame for the assassination on a lone malcontent, Lee Harvey Oswald, before Air Force One even landed at Andrews Air Force Base on November 22, 1963. Salandria's discovery came from Theodore H. White's book The Making of a President, 1964 – in which White wrote on page 20:

There is a tape recording in the archives of the Government which best recaptures the sound of the hours as it waited for leadership. It is a recording of all the conversations in the air, monitored by the [Army] Signal Corps Midwestern center "Liberty," between Air Force One in Dallas, the Cabinet plane over the Pacific, and the Joint Chiefs' Communication Center in Washington.

White continued on page 48:

On the flight the party learned that there was no conspiracy, learned of the identity of Oswald and his arrest; and the President's mind turned to the duties of consoling the stricken and guiding the quick. [my emphasis].

Corroboration for White's claim can be found in the 1993 oral history edited by Gerald S. and Debroah H. Strober, Let Us Begin Anew: An Oral History of the Kennedy Presidency. On pages 450-451, Assistant Secretary of State Robert Manning – who was aboard the Cabinet plane to Japan with Secretary of State Rusk and Presidential Press Secretary Pierre Salinger – is quoted as saying that the White House situation room was in continuous voice contact with the Cabinet aircraft, and not only informed Rusk that "Lancer [the President] is dead," but also told the editors of the book: "The news then came in that someone named Oswald who had been in the Soviet Union had done this."

This is most curious, since on November 23, 1963 (the next morning) the Dallas Morning News printed the following, quoting District Attorney Henry Wade from the previous day: "…preliminary reports indicated more than one person was involved in the shooting…the electric chair is too good for the killers."

For the Dallas District Attorney to say that preliminary reports indicated more than one person was involved in the shooting was quite understandable, given that the suspect's rifle was found in the Book Depository (behind the motorcade at the time of the shooting), and yet numerous eyewitnesses indicated shots had unmistakenly come from the Grassy Knoll, to the right front of the vehicle at the time of the shooting. What is truly strange is that anyone in the White House Situation Room could pass on a solution to the crime while Air Force One was in the air enroute from Dallas to Washington the day of the assassination – before the sun had even set – when no one in Dallas had solved the crime, or had even yet claimed to have solved the crime. At the time the information White and Manning referred to was passed to Air Force One, suspect Oswald had not even been charged with the murder of the President. If the White House Situation Room had been an honest broker in all of this, its report should have said: "a suspect has been arrested in the shooting of a policeman, and a rifle has been found in a building along the motorcade route." Either someone was feeding the White House Situation Room the desired "legend" about the assassination, or someone in the White House Situation Room was in on the conspiracy.


What was unclear then, and remains unclear now, is whether journalist Theodore H. White listened to these tapes himself, or whether he was indirectly fed some of the information on the tapes by LBJ aids while researching and writing his book. White tries to give the impression that he was privy to the tapes himself, but as subsequent events revealed, this was extremely unlikely. It is much more likely that he was simply told what was on the tapes by an LBJ aid 'on background.' Vincent Salandria's dogged attempts to obtain access to these audio recordings – through Theodore White, the National Archives, Pierre Salinger, and ultimately, the White House Communications Agency (WHCA) – were fruitless.

The White House Communications Agency turned out to be the correct point of contact, but WHCA only hinted at this, neither confirming nor denying that such a tape from 11/22/63 existed, and simply replied to Salandria that any such tapes would not be made available to US citizens:


January 2, 1968

Dear Mr. Salandria:

I have been asked to respond to your letter, addressed to the White House Communications Agency, concerning a tape recording to [sic] Air Force One, November 22, 1963.

Logs and tapes of the radio transmissions of military aircraft, including those of Air Force One, are kept for official use only. These tapes are not releasable, nor are they obtainable from commercial sources.

I am sorry my response cannot be more favorable.

Respectfully,

(Signed)

James U. Cross

Armed Forces Aide to the President"

[[Note: See James U. Cross book]

This response – which undoubtedly was coordinated with LBJ – makes it a virtual certainty that Theodore H. White never listened t the tapes himself, but instead was given a summary account of some of the content material in the recordings by an insider who had listened to them.


As a member of the Military Records Team on the staff of the Assassinations Records Review Board, I did my best to locate the original, unedited Air Force one tapes; ultimately, I had no more success than Vincent Salandria. But by this time – by 1995, when I first became involved in the search – the landscape had changed considerably.

A commercial version – a heavily edited version – of the tapes of in-flight recordings made on 11/22/63 by the White House Communications Agency had surfaced subsequent to Salandria's search, so the existence of the tapes was no longer subject to question. I visited Archives II on October 10-11, 1995 with colleague Dr. Joan Zimmerman, and listened to the version of the Air Force One tapes released by the LBJ Library. The NARA recordings available at Archives II in College Park, Maryland – sent to them by the LBJ Library – appeared to be identical to what I had purchased through the mail a few years previously through a small Texas bookstore. The very first voice audible on the tape is a member of the Army Signal Corps, who announces that the recording is "edited and condensed." Large portions of the 3 cassette tapes at Archives II consist of blank space, but I would estimate that the total length of spoken material on the 3 cassettes is somewhere between 110-120 minutes, or a maximum of two hours. The information reported below is from the staff memo I wrote about the experience on October 17, 1995.

A so-called "transcript" of the 3 cassette tapes is available in the JFK Records Collection, 67 and is not to be trusted, since it is incomplete, and is not verbatim.

Any interested researcher is advised to request copies of the audiotapes themselves from the audiovisual branch of Archives II in College Park, Maryland (or the LBJ Library itself). One Warren Commission document, a typed statement signed by the radio operator on Air Force One on 11/22/63 – Master Sergeant John C. Trimble, USAF – reveals that four radio frequencies for voice communications had been set up by him the day of the assassination for the flight from Love Field back to Andrews AFB, and that 3 of them were in almost constant use. I quote from his statement: "I ….had three phone patches going simultaneously most of the time."

As an ARRB staff member I was very concerned with determining whether or not a significant portion of time had been excised from the original recordings. Anyone concerned with this exercise must begin with the flight time from Love Field to Andrews AFB: 2 hours 17 minutes. Next, since Trimble had written that he had "three phone patches going simultaneously most of the time," it is wise to take a conservative approach to his statement "most of the time." I interpreted "most of the time" as 2 hours out of the total flight time of 2 hours, 17 minutes. Continuing with this calculation, the reader should multiply 2 hours ('most of the time') times 3 radio circuits ( 'going simultaneously'), i.e., 2 x 3 = 6, which conservatively yields six hours of unedited voice conversations as the length of the unedited Air Force One tapes

67 In LBJ Library box # 19

1662

from November 22, 1963. Since the tapes at Archives II are a maximum of two hours in length, approximately 4 hours have been excised. It appears safe to say, then, that the amount of time edited out of the existing tape is twice as long as the length of the information released by the LBJ Library.

This is extremely disturbing.

Furthermore, there is no mention on the edited version of the Air Force Once conversations (with either the White House Situation Room, or the Cabinet plane), of the crime being solved, or of the assassin being captured and identified, as referenced by Theodore White and Robert Manning. I can only conclude from this that the information passed to Air Force One was premature, in that it was too detailed for the information available on the ground in Dallas at the time, and therefore had to be excised from the historical record to protect the conspirators who passed along this information. To have released the unedited tapes would have revealed, directly or indirectly, the identity of one of the conspirators.

One prominent voice that is present on the tapes is that of Gerald Behn, the Head of the White House Detail of the U.S. Secret Service, who had chosen to take leave during the President's trip to Texas, but was nevertheless present in the White House Situation Room coordinating arrangements. In one conversation that did survive on the edited version, Behn is heard ordering ASAIC Roy Kellerman (who was in charge of the Dallas trip, who was in the front right-hand seat of the limousine in Dallas, and who subsequently monitored and partially controlled entrance to the morgue during the autopsy), "You accompany the body [of the President] aboard the helicopter." This is particularly interesting, since the Dallas casket was transported by a Navy Ambulance, containing Greer, Kelleman, RFK, JBK, and others. 68.

There can be heard on the existing tape what appear to be crude edits and breaks in the conversation, as well as references to other conversations which are not on the tape available today. The indecision, or rather tug-of-war, over whether the President's autopsy should be performed at Walter Reed Hospital or Bethesda Naval Hospital is one of the subjects of interest on the edited tapes, as is interest by the White House in the limousine and follow-up car being transported back to Washington D.C. in a C-130 aircraft. In another tantalizing fragment of a conversation on the edited tapes, there is discussion of a "limousine and ambulance at Andrews," and an indistinct reference to a "black Cadillac" at one point. It is unclear whether this is a reference to a hearse (which is indeed a black Cadillac), or to the follow-up car in the Dallas motorcade, the so-called Queen Mary, which was itself a black Cadillac convertible. In one fragment of conversation, a Colonel from OPS expresses a concern from the Chief of Staff (General LeMay?) as to whether President Johnson or Mr. Kennedy's body is onboard the aircraft. One would have expected the Chief of Staff of the Air Force to be concerned with the overall DEFCON status, or the alert status of SAC's bombers and ICBMs, not the whereabouts of JFK's body. This seems to me

[68 It is still unknown today whether JFK's body was helicoptered from Andrews to the grounds of Bethesda and then placed in a black hearse, or whether a black hearse spirited it at high speed, uninterrupted, directly from Andrews to the loading dock outside the Bethesda morgue. The fact that President Kennedy's body actually arrived at 1835 (6:35 PM) at the loading dock outside the Bethesda NNMC morgue, whereas the Andrews motorcade did not arrived until about 6:55 PM (twenty minutes later), strongly implies that a helicopter was used to transport it to the Navy complex, and that it was united with the Gawler's hearse containing Hagen and Robinson a short distance from the hospital complex itself. ]

1663

a pretty damning statement, given the fact that LeMay disobeyed orders from the Secretary of the Air Force to proceed to Andrews AFB; instead proceeded to the Natinoal Airport near downtown Washington D.C.; and was reported by autopsy technician Paul O'Conner to have been at President Kennedy's autopsy.

The White House Communications Agency played 'dumb' with the ARRB on the subject of the Air Force One tapes, as did the LBJ Library. Neither entity professed to having any knowledge as to who edited the tapes, when they were edited, or the whereabouts of the unedited version, if it even existed (which I seriously doubt).

As the Final Report of the ARRB states:

The Review Board sought to locate any audio recordings of voice communications to or from Air Force One on the day of the assassination, including communications between Air Force One and Andrews Air Force Base during the return flight from Dallas to Washington, D.C. As many people are now aware, in the 1970s, the LBJ Presidential Library released edited audio cassettes of unsecured, or open voice conversations with Air Force One, Andrews Air Force Base, the White House Situation Room, and the Cabinet aircraft carrying the Secretary of State and other officials on November 22, 1963. The LBJ Library version of these tapes consists of about 110 minutes of vice transmissions, but the tapes are edited and condensed, so the Review Board staff sought access to unedited, uncondensed versions. Since the edited version of the tapes contains considerable talk about both the forthcoming autopsy on the President, as well as the reaction of a government in crisis, the tapes are of considerable interest to assassination researchers and historians.

Given that the LBJ Library released the tapes in the 1970s, the paper trail is now sketchy and quite cold. The LBJ Library staff is fairly confident that the tapes originated with the White House Communications Agency (WHCA). The LBJ Library staff told the ARRB that it received the tapes from the White House as part of the original shipment of President Johnson's papers in 1968 or 1969. According to the LBJ Library's documentation, the accession card reads: "WHCA?" and is dated 1975. The Review Board staff could not locate any records indicating who performed the editing, or when, or where.

The Review Board's repeated written and oral inquiries of the White House Communication Agency did not bear fruit. The WHCA could not produce any records that illuminated the provenance of the edited tapes.

I was the person on the staff driving the effort to find the original, unedited Air Force Once tapes, and I do not mind admitting that our inability to obtain any information whatsoever from WHCA was extremely frustrating, and disappointing. Not only was the paper trail extremely old (and cold), but the attitude of the WHCA official responsible for ARRB liaison was one of amusement, and barely concealed contempt for the Review Board's concern over this issue.

1664

Edited by William Kelly, 27 February 2010 - 09:05 AM.


#5 Bernice Moore

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 08:02 AM

''One of the most intriguing, and frustrating, records of the assassination are the heavily edited "Air Force One" audiotapes available from the LBJ Presidential Library in Texas''

BILL WE ARE BEGINNING TO SEE A PATTERN HERE THE DALLAS radio PARKLAND INTERVIEWS tapes were also secluded and found within the lbj library what else has been...or has this been noted and looked into in the past..i do not know...it makes one wonder if his library has been used as a hideaway by some within the government or if he had copies of such within his records that were not passed along or shared or secured where they should have been on his orders...?? thanks..b



B. I think the LBJ Library released what they had of the edited AF1 radio tapes and transcript and the White House Communications Agency has the original, but won't cough it up.

But the LBJ Library did loose the negative of the wink photo aboard AF1 after the swearing in, a negative that was kept in a vault in the library. So do you think it was stollen by a cat burglar or was it an inside job?

BK

YES I HAVE READ OF THAT SEEMS LIKE ANOTHER TUCKED AWAY AT THE LBJ. AND NOW MISSING BUT TOO BAD THERE ARE A ZILLION COPIES OUT THERE ALREADY...TOO LATE TO CONTROL THAT ONE SEEN BELOW....I AM GOING TO KEEP AN EYE OPEN FOR ANYTHING FURTHER THAT IS FOUND WITHIN AND OR THAT GOES ASTRAY WHILE THERE IT COULD LEAD TO A PATTERN,, THANKS FOR ALL YOUR POSTS WONDERFUL WORK...BEST B.. EXCUSE CAPS TXS..



#6 William Kelly

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 09:08 AM

January 2, 1968

Dear Mr. Salandria:


I have been asked to respond to your letter, addressed to the White House Communications Agency, concerning a tape recording to [sic] Air Force One, November 22, 1963.

Logs and tapes of the radio transmissions of military aircraft, including those of Air Force One, are kept for official use only. These tapes are not releasable, nor are they obtainable from commercial sources.

I am sorry my response cannot be more favorable.

Respectfully,
(Signed)
James U. Cross
Armed Forces Aide to the President


"Unlike many noted historians who write about policy and politics, my attempt with this book was to convey the humanity of Lyndon B. Johnson." – James Underwood Cross

Around the World with LBJ My Wild Ride as Air Force One Pilot, White House Aide, and Personal Confidant

By Brigadier General James U. Cross USAF (retired), with Denise Gamino and Gary Rice

http://www.amazon.com/James-U.-Cross/e/B001JS0FNE

James U. Cross served as Lyndon Johnson's pilot from 1962 until mid-1968. Cross retired from the Air Force as a Brigadier General and commander of Bergstrom Air Force Base in 1971. Today he lives in Gatesville, Texas.

"What a delightful, honest, and entertaining story Jim Cross tells. Here is a man who was so close to power he would come down with a cold if the President sneezed (and could have brought a lot of us literally down with him), but he never forgot his roots in rural Alabama. A man whose daddy worked for the Horseshoe Lumber Company grows up to serve the most powerful man in the world, and his account of that amazing journey —some of it scarily bumpy, as I can testify — is a bird's-eye view, from the cockpit of Air Force One, of why character counts." -Bill Moyers

"General Cross is an American hero and the hero of generations of Johnsons. Daddy used to say there are two types of people; the talkers and the doers. General Cross was always a "can do" presence in our lives. No job was too great or too small for God, country, and his friends. Jim Cross has led a dynamic life in service for others, and I have no doubt generations yet to come will be enriched by his worthy story, as our family always has been." - Luci Baines Johnson

When Lyndon Baines Johnson wanted to go somewhere, there was no stopping him. This dynamic president called for Air Force One as others summon a taxi—at a moment's notice, whatever the hour or the weather. And the man who made sure that LBJ got his ride was General James U. Cross, the president's hand-picked pilot, top military assistant, and personal confidante. One of the few Air Force One pilots to have a position, simultaneously, in the White House, General Cross is also the only member of LBJ's inner circle who has not publicly offered his recollections of the president. In this book, he goes on the record, creating a fascinating, behind-the-scenes portrait of America's complex, often contradictory, always larger-than-life thirty-sixth president.

General Cross tells an engrossing story. In addition to piloting Air Force One around the globe, he served President Johnson in multiple capacities, including directing the Military Office in the White House; managing a secret two-million-dollar presidential emergency fund; supervising the presidential retreat at Camp David, the president's entire transportation fleet, and the presidential bomb shelters; running the White House Mess; hiring White House social aides, including the president's future son-in-law, Charles Robb; and writing condolence letters to the families of soldiers killed in Vietnam. This wide-ranging, around-the-clock access to President Johnson allowed Cross to witness events and share moments that add color and depth to our understanding of America's arguably most demanding and unpredictable president.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0RBE/is_2004_Annual/ai_n8572544/

BRIGADIER GENERAL JAMES U. CROSS

Retired May 1, 1971.

Brigadier General James U. Cross is commander of the 75th Tactical Reconnaissance Wing at Bergstrom Air Force Base, Texas.

General Cross was born in Andalusia, Ala., in 1925. He attended local schools in the Andalusia area and graduated from Pleasant Home High School. He began his military career by enlisting in the U.S. Army for pilot training and was commissioned a second lieutenant, Army Air Corps, in November 1944.

During World War II in November 1944, he went to the China-Burma-India Theater where he was a transport pilot flying "the Hump." He was relieved from active military duty in April 1946 and became a member of the Air Force Reserve.

He attended Alabama Polytechnic Institute (now Auburn University), Ala., for two years until he was recalled to active duty in October 1948 to serve at Clark Air Base, Republic of the Philippines. Subsequently he has served in Tactical Air Command, the Northeast Air Command, Military Air Transport Service, and Military Airlift Command.

His next assignment was to Headquarters Eighteenth Air Force, Donaldson Air Force Base, S.C., where he served successively as flying safety officer, inspector, and then pilot with the 63rd Troop Carrier Wing. In February 1956 he went to Goose Bay Air Base, Newfoundland, as operations officer with the 6606th Air Base Group.

General Cross was a pilot with the 40th Air Transport Squadron at Dover Air Force Base, Del., from February 1957 to September 1958. He next went to Bolling Air Force Base, Washington, D.C., where he served as a pilot for VIP aircraft.

In July 1961 he was selected to serve as pilot and military aide to the vice president of the United States and in February 1962 as pilot of Air Force One at Andrews Air Force Base, Md. He was appointed as Armed Forces Aide and personal pilot to the president of the United States on July 15, 1965.

In July 1968 he was assigned to Twelfth Air Force at Bergstrom Air Force Base, Texas, where he completed RF-4C aircraft training prior to a short tour of duty in the Republic of Vietnam. In February 1969 he returned to Bergstrom Air Force Base as commander of the 75th Tactical Reconnaissance Wing.

His military decorations include the Legion of Merit, Distinguished Flying Cross, Air Medal, Air Force Outstanding Unit Award Ribbon with oak leaf cluster, and Presidential Service Badge. He has more than 10,000 flying hours in various military aircraft.

His hometown is Andalusia, Ala.

He was promoted to the temporary grade of brigadier general effective Feb. 1, 1969, with date of rank Jan. 31, 1969.

(Current as of Aug. 15, 1970)

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/jan/30/former-presidents-pilot-recounts-stories-of-lbj/

Retired Brig. Gen. James U. Cross, who now lives in Gatesville, served as Lyndon Johnson's pilot from 1962 until 1968. He has written a book about his experiences, "Around the World with LBJ" (University of Texas Press, $26.95 hardcover, with Denise Gamino and Gary Rice).

The book's subtitle pretty well outlines the story: "My wild ride as Air Force One pilot, White House aide, and personal confidant."

Cross tells the story in his own words and in an easy-reading, entertaining style.

"My Secret Service code name was Sawdust," Cross writes. As LBJ's pilot, "I bucked the inviolate military chain of command to fly where and when he wanted. Protocol, rules, and red tape couldn't stop us. We did it his way, obstacles be damned. He wasn't always the most pleasant personality to be around, but he was best co-pilot in adventure anyone could ever have had."

But, Cross adds, "Flying was just the half of it. I was the only Air Force One pilot in history to have one foot in the cockpit and the other in the White House. I flew the plane and joined the political ground crew, too."

Cross writes in first person about his time with Vice President and then President Johnson. "One day," he said, "he ordered me to fire a general - and I was only a major." Later, as a colonel, Cross was again ordered to fire a general.

Cross said Johnson confided his thoughts about how much he disliked being vice president and how he looked forward to going back to his Texas ranch after his term ended. He said he only took the job because Democratic leaders insisted that Richard Nixon would win the 1960 election if he didn't.

Of course, all that changed on Nov. 22, 1963. Cross continued to serve as LBJ's pilot and confidant until 1968, after Johnson announced he would not run for re-election. Johnson promoted Cross to brigadier general and got him appointed commander of Bergstrom Air Force Base at Austin.

"I was a one-man army in service to LBJ and my country," Cross reflects. "To have been given the opportunity to build a relationship with this uncommon common man was the gift of a lifetime."

Edited by William Kelly, 27 February 2010 - 09:10 AM.


#7 William Kelly

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 07:58 AM

Pentagon taking its own steps - Doubtless the tape will be available to future historians

Aft of the cockpit Signalman John Trimble was too busy to brood. He had three phone patches going to the communications shack, and he was using Hanson's UHF and VHF sets, yet it wasn't enough. Every official in Washington it seemed, wanted to talk to Air Force One...Several conversations were trivial....Lem Johns was forwarding instructions to the White Hosue Communications Agency, and Bill Moyers was talking to Walter Jenkins and Mac Bundy. (Ted Clifon talked to Bundy, too, asking again whether an international plot was emerging. It was not a discreet inquiry. Trimble's patches were not secure. They could be bugged. Bundy replied crisply that the Pentagon was taking its own steps.) But the bulk of the verbal traffic was about President Kennedy...

p. 341 - Death of a President, Manchester.

Footnote 9 - p. 371

9. That Friday Lyndon Johnson did not know that John Kennedy had ordered the taping of all Angel conversations while the plane was in flight. On April 21, 1964, this writer learned that the Love-to-Andrews tape still existed. Since security was not involved, it was first thought that a complete transcript of it would serve as a useful appendix to this book. Presidential consent was withheld, howver. On May 5, 1965, the author was permitted to read an edited transcript at the White House. Doubtless the tape will be available to future historians.


...In the car with (Ed) Guthman Robert Kennedy talked about every aspect of the disaster except one - his own incalculable loss...The liberal convictions of Attorney General Kennedy, like those of President Kennedy, were far more deeply held than most liberals had suspected, and they surfaced during the drive. "People just don't realize how conservative Lyndon Johnson really is," he said as they rode up in the Secretary of Defense's private elevator. "There are going to be a lot of changes."

p. 378

#8 John Dolva

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 08:48 AM

William Kelly -

''Pentagon taking its own steps - Doubtless the tape will be available to future historians

Aft of the cockpit Signalman John Trimble was too busy to brood. He had three phone patches going to the communications shack, and he was using Hanson's UHF and VHF sets, yet it wasn't enough. Every official in Washington it seemed, wanted to talk to Air Force One...Several conversations were trivial....Lem Johns was forwarding instructions to the White Hosue Communications Agency, and Bill Moyers was talking to Walter Jenkins and Mac Bundy. (Ted Clifon talked to Bundy, too, asking again whether an international plot was emerging. It was not a discreet inquiry. Trimble's patches were not secure. They could be bugged. Bundy replied crisply that the Pentagon was taking its own steps.) But the bulk of the verbal traffic was about President Kennedy...

p. 341 - Death of a President, Manchester.

Footnote 9 - p. 371

9. That Friday Lyndon Johnson did not know that John Kennedy had ordered the taping of all Angel conversations while the plane was in flight. On April 21, 1964, this writer learned that the Love-to-Andrews tape still existed. Since security was not involved, it was first thought that a complete transcript of it would serve as a useful appendix to this book. Presidential consent was withheld, howver. On May 5, 1965, the author was permitted to read an edited transcript at the White House. Doubtless the tape will be available to future historians.


...In the car with (Ed) Guthman Robert Kennedy talked about every aspect of the disaster except one - his own incalculable loss...The liberal convictions of Attorney General Kennedy, like those of President Kennedy, were far more deeply held than most liberals had suspected, and they surfaced during the drive. "People just don't realize how conservative Lyndon Johnson really is," he said as they rode up in the Secretary of Defense's private elevator. "There are going to be a lot of changes."

p. 378 ''

Very prescient, and I do mean that RFK was very astute (tho perhaps a little bit less of a seasoned ''political animal'' than his brother).

His overt support for Civil Rights, The Fredom Riders, Medgar/Charles Evers, MLK, etc, (undoubtedly backed by the Chief), dates back to the early years when he was already being vigorously attacked by arch concervatives, very much over his stand on de-segregation.

[ I often think he overestimated an inherent goodness in people and ''the system'' and underestimated the lengths the Kennedy Administrations enemies were prepared to go to. ]


#9 William Kelly

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 12:05 PM

http://www.history-m...AirForceOne.pdf

MEMORANDUM

October 17,1995

To: Jeremy Gunn

cc: David Marwell

Joan Zimmerman

Anne Buttimer

Dennis Quinn

From: Doug Horne

Subject: Air Force One Audiotapes from November 22,1963

1. As directed, Joan Zimmerman and I visited Archives II to listen to audio recordings of the November 22,1963 Air Force One tapes. Our initial effort lasted two working days, October l0-11,1995.

2. The Air Force One tapes presently held by NARA are 3 edited cassette copies provided by the LBJ library, and are identified as follows:

LBT Librarv Cassette No. Identifiers

NLJ 3 SRT 969-l

NLJ 4 SRT 969-2

NLJ 5 SRT 969-3

An unidentified voice informs the listener at the outset of the first cassette (NLJ 3) that the recording is “edited and condensed.” The agency or organization which performed the editing is not identified either. Total length of the recorded material on these edited tapes is estimated at about 2 hours; without running a stopwatch a more precise estimate is not possible, since the 3 cassettes used for the transfer by the LBJ library are not uniformly filled with material. For example, the second side of tapes NLJ 4 and NLJ 5 are almost 100% blank, and the first side of tape NLJ 3 is not completely filled.

3. Procedures: The audiotapes at NARA must be listened to in Suite 4000 at Archives II.

The tapes are requested in suite 4000; they are not held by Steve Tilley. An imperfect Home e:\wp-docs\AFl.wp File: 4.0.4

2

incomplete “transcript” of the edited audiotapes can be found in LBJ library box # 19. It is highly recommended that anyone listening to the tapes first check out this item from Steve Tilley on the sixth floor, and run off a photocopy of the transcript.

4. Joan Zimmerman and I took voluminous notes, noting the many occasions when

spoken word on the tapes is not accounted for on the LBJ transcript. We also took notes in an attempt to expand on areas of the “transcript” which are only summations of conversations (vice verbatim accounts), and attempted to correct occasional inaccuracies found in the LBJ “transcript.” We both feel that it would be premature, at this time, for the ARRB to attempt to create a true, verbatim transcript of the edited Air Force One tapes, since the Review Board is engaged in a search to locate the unedited tapes from which the LBJ variant is condensed. If-and-when a complete audio record of these conversations is located, it may be considered worthwhile for the ARRB to expend the resources necessary to create a complete and precise transcript for inclusion in the JFK Collection at NARA.

5. The Air Force One tapes commence when the Presidential aircraft (Special Air Mission, or “SAM” 26000) is still on the ground at Carswell AFB near Fort Worth, Texas on the morning of November 22,1963; as the tape begins, President Kennedy has not yet boarded the aircraft following the Fort Worth breakfast event, so the aircraft is not yet referred to as “Air Force One.” The LBJ tapes include the flight from Carswell AFB to Love Field outside Dallas before the assassination, and the flight from Love Field to Andrews AFB outside Washington DC after the assassination. The various parties (or “patches,” to use military communications jargon) include the following, listed exactly as spoken on the tapes:

Name/Call Sign Remarks

SAM 26000 The Presidential aircraft, when the President is not onboard.

Air Force One

SAM 86972

The Presidential aircraft, when the President is embarked.

The State Department aircraft carrying Press Secretary Salinger, Secretary of State Rusk, Secretary of Agriculture Freeman and other Cabinet members and Administration officials. When the assassination occurred, this aircraft was enroute from Hawaii to Japan; subsequent to the assassination, the aircraft

3

“Andrews”

“Liberty”

returned to Hawaii to refuel, and then flew directly from Hickam AFB in Hawaii to Andrews AFB near Washington DC.

An “Airman Gilmore” answers for Andrews AFB throughout the tape and appears to be the central player attempting to facilitate all “patches.”

Precise definition unknown, but through context,

“Liberty” appears to be the party controlling radio frequency assignments among 26000,86972, and the various parties in Washington DC who are talking with Government officials on Air Force One while it is enroute Andrews AFB.

“Command Post” Command Post’s location is never specified.

“Air Force Command Post”Air Force Command Post’s location is never specified.

“SAM Command Post” SAM Command Post’s location is never specified.

“Crown” White House Situation Room.

6. The LBJ transcript from LBJ box # 19 has appended to it many of the USSS-WHCA code names used by personnel onboard SAM 26000, SAM 86972, and at the White House situation room; additional code names found on the tapes can be found on pages xxi and xxii of Death of a President, by William Manchester. Nevertheless, there are still some code names used in the tape which Ms. Zimmerman and I could not decipher using the research tools mentioned above. Two of these unidentified dramatis personae on the tapes are “Stranger” and “Dagger”. It was interesting to note that on November 22,1963 following the assassination, presumably due to the great stress induced by the day’s events, use of the USSS-WHCA code names was sloppy and inconsistent, with many speakers interchanging their code names and real names during the same conversation (thus compromising the purpose of the code names).

7. As a result of our review of the LBJ library’s edited and condensed version of the Air Force One tapes, many noteworthy observations were made which clearly justify ARRB’s pursuit of the unedited versions of these audiotapes, or of other records which could shed light on the ambiguities inherent in the incomplete and intriguing record constituted by these taped conversations. These “investigative leads” are summarized below in no particular order or priority, and regardless of how they are eventually resolved or clarified, any assassination records which could shed light on

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these sometimes confusing and controversial passages belong in the JFK Collection at NARY:

A. Four radio frequencies were identified as the means of communications between parties onboard aircraft SAM 26000, SAM 86972, and the White House Communications Agency in Washington, namely:

11176 MHZ (Upper sideband)

15011 MHZ (Upper Sideband)

13247 MHZ (Upper sideband)

18027 MHZ (Lower sideband)

Part of the LBJ library collection donated to the JFK Collection at NARA includes a typed summary prepared by Master Sergeant John C. Trimble, USAF (the WHCA technician who was the radio operator onboard Air Force One during the flight from Dallas to Washington on November 22,1963). In his statement, he says: “I...had three phone patches going simultaneously most of the time.” Since total fight time, from takeoff from Love Field, until “on the blocks” at Andrews AFB was 2 hours and 17 minutes, the unedited audiotapes could conceivably be as long as 7-9 hours in total duration, although how much of this time would be “dead time” is unknown. One serious problem with the edited Air Force One tape is that the listener does not know which frequency (i.e., “patch”) he is listening to at any one time, or whether or not the various conversations which are condensed onto the tape are recorded in the proper time sequence.

B. Onboard Air Force One on the return flight to Washington, Secret Service Agent Kellerman, and later General Ted Clifton (Military Aide to the President) make it clear that their desire is for an ambulance and limousine to take President Kennedy’s body to Walter Reed General Hospital for autopsy “...under guard...,” as specified by General Clifton. Gerald Behn, Head of the White House Secret Service Detail, counters that a helicopter has been arranged to take the President’s body to the National Naval Medical Center at Bethesda for autopsy, and that all other personnel will be choppered to the South Grounds of the White House. Ultimately, the President’s physician, Admiral George Burkley (on Air Force One), sides with Gerald Behn (at the White House) in support of a Bethesda autopsy and persuades the Surgeon General of the Army, General Heaton (in Washington) to cancel arrangements for a Walter Reed autopsy.

Once it becomes clear that Bethesda is to be the site, two things happen: first, both Admiral Burkley and General Clifton insist that the President’s body be transported to Bethesda by ambulance (vice helicopter), even though Gerald Behn at the White House informs General Clifton that President Kennedy’s Naval Aide, CAPT Shepard, has assured him that it will be no problem for the helicopter to carry the heavy casket; second, even though Admiral Burkley and General Clifton insist on ambulance transport of JFK’s body to Bethesda, Gerald Behn at the White House subsequently orders Roy Kellerman: “You accompany the body aboard the helicopter.” Finally, General Clifton insists and then repeats, in great detail, orders for a forklift and platform at the left rear of the aircraft for the casket, a personnel ramp at the left front of the aircraft for President Johnson and other passengers’ debarkation, and another personnel ramp at the right front of the airplane (the dark, unlit side of the aircraft where there is a galley door) for the departure of Jacqueline Kennedy. These concerns are mirrored at flight’s end in a conversation from Colonel Swindal (Air Force One pilot) to Colonel Cross (USAF also) on the ground. (Editorial notes: (1) The fact that Jacqueline Kennedy never used the ramp at the right front of the aircraft has caused at least one researcher to question the real motivation for its placement; (2) An Air Force document titled: “Historical Highlights of Andrews Air Force Base, 1942-1989” states that “...the body of the slain President was removed to Walter Reed General Hospital...,” which further fuels the controversy over the movements of the President’s body after Air Force One landed at Andrews.‘)

C. On one occasion on the tape, Admiral Burkley states to Gerald Behn at the White House, “I have called General Heaton and asked him...,” but on the LBJ edited audiotape, there is no previous conversation recorded with General Heaton, leading one to the conclusion that a conversation took place which is not present on the edited tape. The first conversation between Burkley and Heaton on the tape comes after this remark.

D. On 4 different occasions on the edited tape, “Crown” (the White House Situation Room) attempts to put “Witness” (CAPT Tazewell Shepard, President Kennedy’s Naval Aide) in communication with Air Force One (and the Air Force One patch with General Heaton) in order to resolve the confusion over the arrangements for the President’s autopsy. There are so many crude edits and breaks on this edited and compressed audio recording that it is unclear whether CAPT Shepard “never got through” to Air Force One at all, or whether he perhaps did on one or more occasions, but those conversations have simply been omitted from of the present version of the recording.

E. Concerning the President’s limousine, SS-100X, two remarks of interest can be heard on the tape. In the first, Secret Service Agent Roy Kellerman says to Gerald Behn (at the White House), “I’m sure the Volunteer boys will go over his car and so forth.”

(Note: “Volunteer” was the USSS-WHCA code name for Vice-President Johnson.) Second, apparently late in the flight to Andrews, someone onboard Air Force one is informed about the status of the plane carrying the two cars from Dallas (SS-100X and ‘See Best Evidence, by David Lifton.

6

the Secret Service follow-up car), namely that “ . ..373 (a tail number) departed at 2141 Zuluthe one with the Presidential cars onboard.” Near the end of the flight Air Force One can be heard inquiring if there is an ETA for “the C-130 with the vehicles.”

F. Background chatter can be heard at one point, discussing a “limousine and ambulance at Andrews,” and later in the same background conversation, something about a “black Cadillac”. This is probably an indication of simultaneous conversations taking place onboard Air Force One on different frequencies, which only highlights the importance of obtaining unedited tapes of all of the conversations.

G. During the flight from Dallas to Washington, “SAM Command Post” calls Air Force One and a “Colonel Arnbuck (phonetic) from OPS” expresses a concern from the Chief of Staff (General LeMay?) as to whether President Johnson and Mr. Kennedy’s body is onboard the aircraft. This question is followed immediately on the tape by the confusing tug-of-war over who will control autopsy arrangements, etc.

H. On more than one occasion during the flight, personnel in Washington specifically ask whether Mrs. Kennedy is onboard. “A.F. Command Post” first asks this question, immediately before the “Chief of Staff’s Office” inquires about the whereabouts of President Johnson and Mr. Kennedy’s body. Subsequently, “Air Force Command Post” asks who the top people onboard are. “Winner” (a Mr. Hatcher at “Crown”) later asks if Mrs. Kennedy is onboard. During the flight Admiral Burkley assumes that Mrs. Kennedy will accompany the body, General Clifton very carefully arranges separate debarkation arrangements from the aircraft for Mrs. Kennedy, and Gerald Behn (Head of White House Secret Service Detail) attempts on two occasions to separate all passengers on Air Force One from JFK’s body after arrival (desiring to send the body alone to Bethesda on a helicopter, and all other personnel to the South Grounds of the White House). The significance of this repeated concern about Mrs. Kennedy’s whereabouts and her plans upon landing is a source of controversy among some researchers and is another reason to pursue unedited audiotapes of these flight conversations.

I. Immediately after Behn orders Kellerman to ” . ..accompany the body aboard the

helicopter”, the following exchange takes place:

Kellerman: “I was unable to get ahold of Payne and Bob Burke (names are phonetic approximations).” After a break, the words “ . ..Payne and Burke at the ranch...” are heard; it is unclear whether the speaker is Kellerman or Behn. Finally, an unidentified speaker says, “ . ..Payne and Burke were not notified...“. The meaning or possible significance of this exchange, if any, is not known.

7

J. Immediately after the above exchanges, an unidentified voice twice says, “...is on 6970...“. (Note: Aircraft #86970 was the Vice-Presidential aircraft, which also flew back to Andrews AFB from Love Field on November 22,1963.)

K. One last noticeable exchange worth reporting is from “Wing” (Brigadier General Godfrey McHugh, USAF, President Kennedy’s Air Force Aide) to “Slugger”(Capt. Cecil Stoughton, USAF, White House photographer who photographed both the swearing-in of LBJ onboard Air Force One in Dallas, and the onloading of JFK’s casket at Love Field):

Wing asks that Crown relay to Slugger that he must meet the aircraft as soon as possible after arrival Andrews, and that if he cannot do this, he is to see Wing as soon as possible after arrival, or contact him in any way feasible. The urgency and importance of this matter to Wing is very clear from his tone of voice. Later, Crown informs Wing that Slugger remained on the ground in Dallas. One of the many conversations not on the

LBJ transcript which is on the edited tape reads as follows:

Andrews(?): “Air Force One, this is very important.”

Slugger: “This is Capt. Stoughton in Dallas.”

Air Force One: “Warrior advises he is unable to speak with you at the present time and asks would you please call the White House in about 30 minutes.“(Note: It is unclear what this is all about, and additionally unclear why Warrior is the party unable to speak with Slugger, when it was Wing who asked to speak with him in the first place.)

END.



#10 John Dolva

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 05:01 PM

What size are the tapes?

#11 William Kelly

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 08:00 PM

What size are the tapes?



We don't know, since the White House Communications Agency says they don't have them anymore.

They are probably reel to reel - from that era.

We are listing them as missing, not destroyed, because there is a transcript of the edited copy cassette tapes that exist, and at least two reporters (Manchester and White) were permitted to read a more lengthly transcript in the White House in 1965 that included conversations that are not on the edited tapes or edited transcript.

BK

#12 John Dolva

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 08:03 PM

Ok, does that mean that the expected time of each reel was fairly constant at ??? minutes?
Then look at the length of the longest transcript. etc

#13 William Kelly

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 08:16 PM

Ok, does that mean that the expected time of each reel was fairly constant at ??? minutes?
Then look at the length of the longest transcript. etc



Okay, length in time?

We know, as Doug Horne's analysis is the same, that the flight took more than a few hours and there were three radios going at the same time so there should be at least seven hours of tape recorded conversations and there are less than three.

BK

#14 John Dolva

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 08:25 PM

Who had the power to make 4 hours disaooear? There must be some kind of ''chain of evidence''. There just seems to be not only (big) bits of the tapes but also bits of the story here and there missing?

edit add: Is there a list of those who did have the real power to make these 4 hours disappear?

Edited by John Dolva, 23 March 2010 - 09:20 PM.


#15 Greg Burnham

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 11:44 PM

I think it is safe to say that it was the military.

Who had the power to make 4 hours disaooear? There must be some kind of ''chain of evidence''. There just seems to be not only (big) bits of the tapes but also bits of the story here and there missing?

edit add: Is there a list of those who did have the real power to make these 4 hours disappear?






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