Proof of Motorcade Stopping?

[Greg Burnham]

If I'd been a JFK assassination plotter, I'd have wanted to ensure from the get-go that the available record relating to the assassination was filled with contradictions.

So that those delving into the assassination would fight among themselves either as to the facts or as to how facts were to be interpreted. That way I'd get to hide the truth in plain sight.

Question to Greg, Pamela, Larry, and other professional researchers: What contradictions, uncertainties, and implausibilities lead to the most disagreement among Warren deniers?

I think the answer is bigger than the question.

In my view, it is of little consequence to identify (even if such a thing could be done) which "contradictions, uncertainties, and implausibilities" are the most divisive.

That the evidence was most often mishandled and the investigations were deliberately "agenda driven in a manner to create such divisiveness" is however central.

Answering the question, "What is it?" -- is far less important than answering the question, "What does it mean?"

[Robert Mady]

Jon, we can mull over the contradictions and continue to argue over which evidence is real and which is not, we can protect those pieces of evidence most precious to our theories while finding reasons to reject opposing views.

We just can't solve the mystery. This is apparently forbidden.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Robert Mady

[Pamela Brown]

Jon, we can mull over the contradictions and continue to argue over which evidence is real and which is not, we can protect those pieces of evidence most precious to our theories while finding reasons to reject opposing views.

We just can't solve the mystery. This is apparently forbidden.

It seems to me that there is information that those still pushing the Ongoing Coverup don't care about. Then there is information they don't want the rest of us to have. One example of that, from my experience, is the Ferguson Memo, which was sent to me by mistake long before they had RIFs when I asked for everything NARA had on the limo.

Prior to the acquisition of the information in the Ferguson Memo there was a great deal of confusion about what happened to the limo once it returned to the White House Garage. Once I published the Ferguson Memo at my website a tsunami occurred. Everyone's pet theory was up for grabs. Therefore, it seems to me those involved in the Ongoing Coverup use confusion to their advantage. By refusing to release certain documents which they know would clear up the confusion, they can just let everyone go around in circles, coming up with crazy theories, which they can then point to as evidence of CT 'looniness'...

When I published the Ferguson Memo, Mr. Marsh went to NARA demanding a copy of it. They refused, saying that it was still being withheld. Marsh then produced MY copy of the Ferguson Memo and the people at NARA went "whoops." So they then had no choice but to release it. But when they did so, they cut off the date of the memo, which on my copy had been December 18, 1963

https://ss100x.wordpress.com/2013/12/08/mb2b-exhibit-6/

https://ss100x.wordpress.com/2013/12/09/mb2b-exhibit-34/

Was this just an 'accident'? Or part of a deliberate process to encourage confusion?

Another issue is NARA withholding access to documents they have. When you go to NARA for serious work, you are assigned to one of their people. They vett you and know what you are looking for. On one trip I hoped to see the Jim Garrison files, notes, memos, etc, that had just recently been donated to NARA. I was told that I had not allotted enough time to do so (I had two days) and was denied access to any of the material at that time. What that said to me was (1) the files had not been 'gutted' yet and (2) that they were, in their original state, dynamite.

So, basically, in whichever direction one goes, there will be those sincerely confused and doing their best, and those in-the-know who are trying to withhold information. Ironically, the more controversy your research generates, perhaps the more on-target it is, especially if you find that people seems to be coming out of the woodwork to try to discredit you...

Edited January 31, 2015 by Pamela Brown

[Greg Burnham]

Bob Prudhomme, this thread has digressed form your original topic. My apologies for contributing to that process.

[Robert Mady]

Pam, 'Ferguson Memo'

1) Claimed "at a point directly under the mirror' this is incorrect by all other evidence. The damage was to the left side of the mirror (from drivers view), including the radiating cracks.

2) Claimed he scrapped blood from under the upholstery buttons, he claimed the SSA let this man into the garage unattended and was free to abscond with evidence. What reason would he have taken the chance to scrape blood from a crime scene. Isn't this memo a self confession of tampering with evidence? I don't believe the SSA would allow any visitor to wonder the White House unattended and absolutely not to inspect the limo.

3) This is a memo, not a sworn affidavit.

4) Other claims were made that the limo was shipped back to Michigan to be renovated and the windshield removed and destroyed at the FORD plant. Ferguson claims it was done at the White House.

5) For what reason would he have had to revisit the limo the second time?

Pam this is chasing evidence trails purposely laid by the conspirators intended to confuse and confound, it appears to have been working.

For those that profess to believe the first shot penetrated the windshield they must prove that GREER and KELLERMAN were part of the conspiracy because it would have been impossible to not react to a shot coming thru the windshield. They also must prove the location of the shooter, this should be pinpointed easily by drawing a line from the neck wound to windshield and extending it out to the East park area for all the frames the neck wound could have occurred.

Then find one witness claiming to hear 1 shot coming from this direction, preferably the first shot.

Please consider the damage to the windshield is not real, it was post added to the limo as evidence that shots came from the rear.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Robert Mady

[Robert Mady]

Why is there any doubt the Zapruder film had been altered and that there were frames removed from the film?

There is no way to explain how the CONNALLYS move from prone positions to sitting forward in 1/2 of a second unless time was compressed by frame removal, this also means the limo was moving slower than calculated by using the extant film as it is.

Frame Z-314 and Z-323 : transition 1/2 second

Start to address the real mystery, how did the dazed and severely wounded JOHN CONNALLY move so quickly and why did neither JOHN or NELLIE include these movements in their testimony? You want to catch culprits in lies, catch the CONNALLYS, their lies are apparent every time you watch the Z-film.

Why is it that researchers are unable to see?

Edited February 1, 2015 by Robert Mady

[Robert Mady]

As I recall, FETZER claimed KENNEDY had shards of glass embedded in his face from the shot thru the windshield, witnessed at Parkland.

I asked FETZER directly for the evidence to support this claim.

I am still waiting for the evidence.

It is all B.S.

[Pamela Brown]

As I recall, FETZER claimed KENNEDY had shards of glass embedded in his face from the shot thru the windshield, witnessed at Parkland.

I asked FETZER directly for the evidence to support this claim.

I am still waiting for the evidence.

It is all B.S.

That is priceless...I have little doubt that you will be waiting until h-ll freezes over...:-0

[Pamela Brown]

Pam, 'Ferguson Memo'

1) Claimed "at a point directly under the mirror' this is incorrect by all other evidence. The damage was to the left side of the mirror (from drivers view), including the radiating cracks.

2) Claimed he scrapped blood from under the upholstery buttons, he claimed the SSA let this man into the garage unattended and was free to abscond with evidence. What reason would he have taken the chance to scrape blood from a crime scene. Isn't this memo a self confession of tampering with evidence? I don't believe the SSA would allow any visitor to wonder the White House unattended and absolutely not to inspect the limo.

3) This is a memo, not a sworn affidavit.

4) Other claims were made that the limo was shipped back to Michigan to be renovated and the windshield removed and destroyed at the FORD plant. Ferguson claims it was done at the White House.

5) For what reason would he have had to revisit the limo the second time?

Pam this is chasing evidence trails purposely laid by the conspirators intended to confuse and confound, it appears to have been working.

For those that profess to believe the first shot penetrated the windshield they must prove that GREER and KELLERMAN were part of the conspiracy because it would have been impossible to not react to a shot coming thru the windshield. They also must prove the location of the shooter, this should be pinpointed easily by drawing a line from the neck wound to windshield and extending it out to the East park area for all the frames the neck wound could have occurred.

Then find one witness claiming to hear 1 shot coming from this direction, preferably the first shot.

Please consider the damage to the windshield is not real, it was post added to the limo as evidence that shots came from the rear.

First, it might help to put Vaughn Ferguson in perspective. He was the FMC liaison to the White House Garage. SS100X was his car. He traveled with it -- except to Dallas, where he was ordered to stay in DC under what I consider the pretext of getting the cars lined up for the Army-Navy game the following week-end. So we know that Ferguson was with the car. In fact, he stayed with the car for four days after the assassination. He had been told that LBJ wanted the limo cleaned up to use in the funeral on Monday.

I don't think it is fair to dismiss his wording of the damage that he saw on the windshield. What he saw is, to me, consistent with CE350.

Ferguson was scraping the blood off of the back seat leather in order to clean the car as he had been instructed. He also tried to wash the blood off of the carpet, but was unable to do so. So he ordered new carpeting from Hess + Eisenhardt that arrived in early December.

I don't think it is valid to dismiss this document because it is a 'memo' and not a 'sworn affadavit'. It gives definition to what happened to the limo after the assasination sufficient to have been withheld by the govt. I think that speaks for itself.

BTW, if, by your own logic, you would not *believe* any information not included in a 'sworn affadavit', I can assure you that neither Whitaker nor Prencipe have that, so then you must discount their statements on that basis alone. What the Ferguson memo does have are letters and documents preceding it and following it that demonstrate its significance as the watershed for understanding the timeline of the limo after the assassination. All that was part of my NID presentation in 2002; unfortunately, the video of my presentation and Joe Backes, and perhaps one other person or panel (I forget) were corrupted and unable to be put into a DVD, so it is not at this time available to the public. I am working to put them together online at some point in the future...

You are referencing the Whitaker hoax involving the Rouge Assembly plant? That is all fabricated. If you do a little more research you will find that there is no documentation at all to connect Whitaker to the limo. In fact, in his first interview, later sanitized, he claimed that what he saw was a "Ford convertible." Ferguson played golf in Dearborn and talked to his buddies about what happened to the limo. Whitaker may have picked up on some of that but botched things up...

It was Ferguson's job to put the limo back into driving condition. That is what he did.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Pamela Brown

[Robert Mady]

Pam... thank you for taking the time to explain the job function of Ferguson. This makes a huge difference.

Are the opponents of this memo objecting to the evidence that there was not a t-n-t hole as noted by Ferguson?

Pam, we have learned that the body of KENNEDY was altered at Bethesda by HUMES just prior to the autopsy, is there a time and place the limo could have also been altered?

Has anyone verified that the result of replacing windshields in 1963 started with the destruction of the windshield to be replaced?

Also why would they destroy the chrome piece, a few screws could have removed this trim.

Why are these two items not in evidence Or examined by forensic scientists prior to destruction?

Does the destruction of these items convey a truth that 'they' did not wish to have these items critically examined?

Edited February 2, 2015 by Robert Mady

[Jon G. Tidd]

Pamela, you write with respect to Ferguson: "He had been told that LBJ wanted the limo cleaned up to use in the funeral on Monday."

Who told him this?

Was the limo ready for use in the funeral on Monday?

How credible was Ferguson? In this regard, did he have any problems such as with money, alcohol, personal relationships -- the sorts of problems that might have made him vulnerable?

[Malcolm Ward]

Pamela, you write with respect to Ferguson: "He had been told that LBJ wanted the limo cleaned up to use in the funeral on Monday."

Who told him this?

Was the limo ready for use in the funeral on Monday?

How credible was Ferguson? In this regard, did he have any problems such as with money, alcohol, personal relationships -- the sorts of problems that might have made him vulnerable?

The Secret Service Jon.

Piece of leather from the backseat of the Lincoln Continental in which President Kennedy was riding when he was tragically assassinated in Dallas, Texas. A haunting piece, literally cut from the limousine in which the President sat when he was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald on 22 November 1963. Clipping is dark blue leather from the border of the backseat cushion of the ''SS-100-X'', the customized open-air limousine that was lengthened, reinforced, and even had the seat raised so on-lookers could have a better view of the President. Following the assassination, F. Vaughn Ferguson, the Technical Service Representative at the White House responsible for the presidential automobiles, was directed by the Secret Service to clean the limousine and get it ready in case the new president, Lyndon B. Johnson, wanted to use it to attend the funeral. When Ferguson arrived at the garage, he found parts of the limo dismantled and the bloodied leather seats ripped out, the result of an FBI search for bullet fragments. He worked throughout the weekend to get the car ready, but President Johnson didn't use it, and the auto was then shipped to custom auto body firm Hess & Eisenhardt in Cincinnati, Ohio. Ferguson kept some of the ripped-out leather as a memento, and lot includes a copy of a typed letter signed from Ferguson, on White House letterhead, which reads in part, ''...The leather, light blue and dark blue, is from the automobile in which John F. Kennedy, President of the United States, was Assassinated...Four days after the Assassination the White House upholsterer and I removed this leather at the White House. The light blue leather is from the center of the rear seat. The dark blue letter is from the border of the rear seat. The spots on the leather are the dried blood of our beloved President, John F. Kennedy...'' Ferguson's limousine leather was acquired directly from him by Raleigh de Geer Amyx, owner of the famed Amyx Collection of Presidential memorabilia. The leather was then acquired from Amyx by Dr. John K. Lattimer, the ballistics expert consulted by the Kennedy family independently of the U.S. Government who confirmed the fatal shots were indeed fired by Lee Harvey Oswald. With a COA and paperwork from University Archives, documenting the chain of title. Leather piece measures just over 0.25'' x nearly 0.75''. Displayed attractively in a transparent pouch mounted to a mat with a caption and a photo of Kennedy in the limousine, all matted in dark blue velour to an overall size of 11'' x 14''. Near fine.

Source:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/gruesome-jfks-blood-from-death-limo-auctioned-for-1000/article/2552460

[Pamela Brown]

Pamela, you write with respect to Ferguson: "He had been told that LBJ wanted the limo cleaned up to use in the funeral on Monday."

Who told him this?

Was the limo ready for use in the funeral on Monday?

How credible was Ferguson? In this regard, did he have any problems such as with money, alcohol, personal relationships -- the sorts of problems that might have made him vulnerable?

Vaughn Ferguson was the FMC liaison to the WHG. The WHG was run by the SS. Ferguson frequently took his orders from Deputy Chief Paterni, and I think that one may have come from him. The real question, to me, is whether LBJ spoke directly to Paterni (unlikely) or this was passed down to Paterni from Rowley. LBJ spoke with Rowley (the SS Chief) almost immediately upon his return to AAFB aboard AF1.

Ferguson began cleaning in earnest with the apparent intention of getting SS100X ready for Monday's funeral. However, the carpet in the rear of the limo was too soaked in blood to come clean. So Ferguson ordered new carpeting from Hess + Eisenhardt. In the meantime, Jackie Kennedy had decided she wanted everyone to walk, so there was no need for it. Ironically, of course, there were other limos available that LBJ *could* have used, including the near-duplicate of SS100X called SS297X, especially built for Jackie.

Ferguson was a very responsible man who had no issues other than the fact that he did not buy the party line of what he was being told about the assassination.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Pamela Brown

[Pamela Brown]

Pamela, you write with respect to Ferguson: "He had been told that LBJ wanted the limo cleaned up to use in the funeral on Monday."

Who told him this?

Was the limo ready for use in the funeral on Monday?

How credible was Ferguson? In this regard, did he have any problems such as with money, alcohol, personal relationships -- the sorts of problems that might have made him vulnerable?

The Secret Service Jon.

Piece of leather from the backseat of the Lincoln Continental in which President Kennedy was riding when he was tragically assassinated in Dallas, Texas. A haunting piece, literally cut from the limousine in which the President sat when he was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald on 22 November 1963. Clipping is dark blue leather from the border of the backseat cushion of the ''SS-100-X'', the customized open-air limousine that was lengthened, reinforced, and even had the seat raised so on-lookers could have a better view of the President. Following the assassination, F. Vaughn Ferguson, the Technical Service Representative at the White House responsible for the presidential automobiles, was directed by the Secret Service to clean the limousine and get it ready in case the new president, Lyndon B. Johnson, wanted to use it to attend the funeral. When Ferguson arrived at the garage, he found parts of the limo dismantled and the bloodied leather seats ripped out, the result of an FBI search for bullet fragments. He worked throughout the weekend to get the car ready, but President Johnson didn't use it, and the auto was then shipped to custom auto body firm Hess & Eisenhardt in Cincinnati, Ohio. Ferguson kept some of the ripped-out leather as a memento, and lot includes a copy of a typed letter signed from Ferguson, on White House letterhead, which reads in part, ''...The leather, light blue and dark blue, is from the automobile in which John F. Kennedy, President of the United States, was Assassinated...Four days after the Assassination the White House upholsterer and I removed this leather at the White House. The light blue leather is from the center of the rear seat. The dark blue letter is from the border of the rear seat. The spots on the leather are the dried blood of our beloved President, John F. Kennedy...'' Ferguson's limousine leather was acquired directly from him by Raleigh de Geer Amyx, owner of the famed Amyx Collection of Presidential memorabilia. The leather was then acquired from Amyx by Dr. John K. Lattimer, the ballistics expert consulted by the Kennedy family independently of the U.S. Government who confirmed the fatal shots were indeed fired by Lee Harvey Oswald. With a COA and paperwork from University Archives, documenting the chain of title. Leather piece measures just over 0.25'' x nearly 0.75''. Displayed attractively in a transparent pouch mounted to a mat with a caption and a photo of Kennedy in the limousine, all matted in dark blue velour to an overall size of 11'' x 14''. Near fine.

Source:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/gruesome-jfks-blood-from-death-limo-auctioned-for-1000/article/2552460

Here is the link from the auction website about the bloody leather from the back seat of SS100X that Ferguson kept:

http://blog.americanheritage1.com/blog/bid/58797/SOURCE-OF-LEATHER-FROM-REAR-SEAT-OF-JFK-ASSASSINATION-LIMOUSINE-KNOWN

Edited February 3, 2015 by Pamela Brown

[Robert Mady]

Pamela, did anyone every use the limo again for transportation?

It would seem to be very morbid to use this vehicle after the assassination.

Wouldn't LBJ using the limo have promoted images of LBJ association with the murder of KENNEDY, does not seem like the politically smart thing to do.

Can we all agree that the reason for the hurried clean-up of the limo was to erase the existence of evidence or are there those among us that believe this action was legitimate?

Edited February 3, 2015 by Robert Mady