Jump to content
The Education Forum

Steve Thomas

  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Steve Thomas

  1. Steve Thomas

    112 Military Intelligence

    Bart, There was a big meeting on the 21st that involved a lot of the heavies - SS, FBI, MI, DPD Department heads and Deputy Chiefs, etc. They went over the security arrangements. Somebody from the SS told the others that their help wouldn't be needed. I've been trying to determine whether that was Forrest Sorrels or Winston Lawson. I've about decided it was Sorrels. Now, I don't know whether that was hubris or something more sinister. http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/ARRB/JMASIH/WP-DOCS/TIM/112DALLA.WPD.PDF MEMORANDUM (Updated version as of February 21, 1997) To: Jeremy Gunn cc: David Marwell; Chris Barger; Doug Horne; Brian Rosen; Joan Zimmerman From: Tim Wray Subject: Army Intelligence in Dallas Here’ s some of what we’ve learned so far about Army intelligence in Dallas. Coyle recalled that, prior to the assassination, Pate (Coyle was not absolutely certain that it was Pate on this occasion, though he thought so) came back from such a meeting and advised them that security measures for the upcoming presidential visit had been discussed, but that the Secret Service and the Dallas Police Department said that they had everything under control and needed no additional help from other agencies. WC testimony of Jesse Curry http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/curry1.htm Mr. CURRY - Yes, sir. Also we had planned to have Captain Fritz and some of his homicide detectives immediately following the President's car which we have in the past, we have always done this. Mr. RANKIN - Now, would that be between the President's car and the Secret Service? Mr. CURRY - And the Secret Service. We have in past done this. We have been immediately behind the President's car. Mr. RANKIN - Did you propose that to someone? Mr. CURRY - Yes, sir. Mr. RANKIN - Who did you propose it to? Mr. CURRY - To Mr. Lawson and Mr. Sellers. (I'm pretty sure this should be Sorrels) Mr. RANKIN - What did they say about that? Mr. CURRY - They didn't want it. Mr. RANKIN - Did they tell you why? Mr. CURRY - They said the Secret Service would be there. WC testimony of Forrest Sorrels http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/sorrels1.htm Mr. STERN - You felt, then, that the local police forces would supply all the outside assistance you needed for this visit? Mr. SORRELS - Yes, sir; the Dallas Police Department, in my opinion, has some very good leaders, career men who have been there for many years, and due to the fact I have been located in Dallas for many, many years I know these people personally, and I have never yet called upon the Dallas Police Department, the Sheriff's Office, or the Department of Public Safety, for any assistance that we have not gotten and gotten cheerfully and willingly. Steve Thomas
  2. This is a question for Larry Hancock. Could you post a roster of the 112th Military Intelligence Group circa 1963? I thought I had seen it on another Forum, but can't locate it right now. Thanks, Steve Thomas
  3. The New York Times Digitizes Over a Century’s Worth of Archival Photographs Into High Resolution Images https://laughingsquid.com/the-new-york-times-digitizes-photo-archive/ For better nerds than I am, this is how it works: https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/ai-machine-learning/how-the-new-york-times-is-using-google-cloud-to-find-untold-stories-in-millions-of-archived-photos I can't determine if these are available online yet to the general public. Steve Thomas
  4. I'm sorry. This should be Constant. Eugene Constant. Steve Thomas
  5. Steve Thomas

    Strategy of tension

    Lately, I have been reading about the "strategy of tension" as it might apply to the JFK assassination. Jeez. Recognize this? https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Strategy_of_tension "Recognizable patterns include, but are not limited to: An official narrative is quickly agreed upon and blames either "Lone nuts" or the enemy du jour "Lone nuts" that die shortly after the event and/or have no chance to explain their side of the story The number of reported perpetrators, decreases as the official narrative unfolds Evidence which is quickly destroyed and/or made inaccessible to public or to journalists because of "national security" Obviously pre-fabricated statements: responses are made which are far too quick - exploiting the targets' moment of psychological shock Politicians and commercially-controlled media: blaming designated culprit before any investigation, hate speech, revenge, threating war or sanctions, fostering police state legislation Name changes or misspelling of suspected lone nuts and/or intelligence links emerge Imagery of low quality emerges, with mismatching details in different versions or viewing angels, time stamps and origin obscured Presented evidence and history of Lone nuts contains bold archetypes, letters, testaments, even passports Eye witness accounts are incompatible with press reports Lost and Found ID leads a direct trail to allow the official narrative's perpetrators to be identified" Any ideas apart from this are termed "conspiracy theories" and dismissed by the establishment Steve Thomas
  6. Paul, You're right. One has to take many of the CIA documents with a grain of salt. Some parts are believable and some are not. That's why it's a good idea to cross check as much as you can. The point I was trying to make with this memo is that, if the CIA is talking "to" Souetre, then he's not "from" the CIA. He's not part of it. As far as the Dallas/Souetre memo, I read it as the CIA saying, "that's what the French said". Did the French actually say that, or did the CIA say "that's what the French said". You and I have talked about the language of that memo and how it changes for that one particular declarative sentence. Up to that point, the memo is relating things in the third person. That particular sentence switches to a declarative statement, then the memo reverts back to third person narrative again. I am suspicious. Steve Thomas
  7. Paz, This is from L'Orchestre Noir pp. 140-141: Roughly translated, by me this reads: “I was recruited for this operation in Brussels, where I was living, by Captain Souetre, whom I knew from the epoch of the OAS”, explained Jacques Depret, a curious personnage, formerly of the French special services, passed to the OAS during the Algerian War. “Souetre had been charged by Surac as commander of the mercenaries recruited into the Aginter cadre. He proposed to me to be his information officer. I accepted immediately.” Jean René Souetre, former Captain of the air commandos, was yet again in the epoch of one of the celebrities of the ex-OAS. Guérin-Serac had been engaged on the occasion of this operation which had been conferred to him the organization and the command. Under the pseudonym of “Constant”, Captain Souetre, for this circumstance, had been promoted Major. In several months, he had reunited in Lisbon fifty men, for the most part, Belgians and Frenchmen, formerly of the OAS or of Katanga... The staffing of this small army was constituted as follows: Souetre, called Constantine Comanders: Piret, a Belgian mercenary, and Delamichel, a South-African mercenary. Captains: Duculster (A Belgian mercenary who was killed several months later in Bukavu), Jacques Depret, and Jacques Maury. Lieutenant: “Walter” Bonnet-Gauthier, etc. Theoretically, the operation should have taken place in the month of June. “An air operation had been planned on Elizabethville”, recounted a member of the staff, under the code name, “Matou”, souvenir of the air commandos in Algeria.... (Just a side note from me: “Matou” was the code name of a helicopter-based assault strike force started by Souetre in 1960. Matou translates as Tomcats. It was unique at the time because it brought infantry directly into front-line battle. It would later be adopted throughout the French air commando units). Steve Thomas
  8. The thing that bothers me about Hunt is that in his career, he specialized in what, propaganda? For me, that makes everything he says kind of suspect. Steve Thomas
  9. Paul, I don't know how this squares with this CIA memo: Steve Thomas
  10. Steve Thomas

    112 Military Intelligence

    Bart, In the 1950's and 60's, "Red Squads" or "Special Services Bureaus" were formed in many of the major cities in the U.S. (I think the idea started in New York City, but I wouldn't swear to that). One of their duties was to provide extra protection for visiting dignitaries. In 1963, Captain Gannaway was the Head of Dallas' Special Service Bureau. Here's a memo from Lieutenant Kaminsky to Gannaway outlining how he was going to provide Special Service Bureau protection along the motorcade route. Notice how he was only going to provide one man per block. Not much protection in my mind. https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth190029/m1/1/ Captain Perdue Lawrence testified before the Warren Commission on July 24, 1964. He was the Captain of the DPD' Traffic Division's Accident Prevention Bureau. He was being questioned about the security measures for JFK's visit. W.P. “Pat” Gannaway was the Captain of the Special Service Bureau. During his testimony, he stressed several times that his role was to keep the motorcade flowing. Actual security being provided against threats to the President would be coming from someone else. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/lawrence.htm Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you receive another set of instructions or orders after that? Captain LAWRENCE. Yes; on the evening of November 21, this was the first time that I had attended any security meeting at all in regards to this motorcade. At approximately 5 p.m. I was told to report to the conference room on the third floor, and when I arrived at the conference room the deputy chiefs were in there, there were members of the Secret Service--Mr. Sorrels, Captain Gannaway, Captain Souter of radio patrol, and Capt. Glen King, deputy chiefs, assistant chiefs, and Chief Curry, and one gentleman, who I assume was in charge of the security for the Secret Service. Mr. GRIFFIN. Was anything said in that meeting about any special precautions that should be taken in connection with protecting the President? Captain LAWRENCE. Yes; there was some discussion that centered more around the security down at the Trade Mart than any other place and Captain Gannaway was in charge of the security in that area, and then Chief Stevenson, I believe, was there, and they mentioned that they would have detectives stationed along the route--along the motorcade route, especially in the downtown area. Mr. GRIFFIN. And what were they to be looking for? Captain LAWRENCE. They were taking care of security, all right, but they did not go into any discussion in my presence. I assume that this had all been, discussed earlier, in fact, when I was called up there, these people were already meeting. “I assume that some instructions have been given to some members of the CID, the criminal investigation division, and to the men from the special service bureau, and the men specifically assigned to security duties instead of traffic duties. It would be my assumption that this was a part of the assignments given.” So, Sorrell's told the group that the Secret Service and Dallas PD would take care of everything; and that the SS didn't need any help from the FBI, ONI, OSI, the 112th, or anybody else. Steve Thomas
  11. Steve Thomas

    112 Military Intelligence

    Bart, It appears to me that it wasn't a case of being ordered to "stand down", it was Sorrells of the Secret Service who told military intelligence that they weren't needed. http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/ARRB/JMASIH/WP-DOCS/TIM/112DALLA.WPD.PDF MEMORANDUM (Updated version as of February 21, 1997) To: Jeremy Gunn cc: David Marwell; Chris Barger; Doug Horne; Brian Rosen; Joan Zimmerman From: Tim Wray Subject: Army Intelligence in Dallas Here’ s some of what we’ve learned so far about Army intelligence in Dallas. “Coyle recollected that Lieutenant Colonel Roy Pate, commander of the 112th’s Dallas Regional Office, attended monthly meetings with the heads of the various local law enforcement and military intelligence agencies within the Dallas community, and that upon his return from such meetings would commonly assemble the office’s personnel to pass on to them any important information he had picked up. Coyle recalled that, prior to the assassination, Pate (Coyle was not absolutely certain that it was Pate on this occasion, though he thought so) came back from such a meeting and advised them that security measures for the upcoming presidential visit had been discussed, but that the Secret Service and the Dallas Police Department said that they had everything under control and needed no additional help from other agencies. Coyle thought that Pate expressed some surprise at this, but thought there was nothing unusual or sinister about it.” http://brinvest.ch/2017/11/a-look-at-new-jfk-documents-and-new-thoughts-on-fletcher-prouty-on-the-ochelli-effect-mike-swanson-10312017/ Subject: Interview with William McKinney (Colonel) Body: CALL REPORT: PUBLIC Document’s Author: Christopher Barger/ARRB Date Created: 05/02/97 "However, he (McKinney) said that when he reported to the 316th in January 1964, he found that “there were still people who were upset…angry…or just unhappy, that the 112th… had been told that perimeter security wasn’t needed by them.” (Col. McKinney wasn't in Dallas, or even in Texas in November, 1963.) Steve Thomas
  12. Steve Thomas

    112 Military Intelligence

    Bart, See her for a Forum thread about Stephan Weiss: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/25187-stephan-weiss-the-112th-mi-group/ Larry Hancock asked, " Has Malcolm verified that he really was a Lt. in the 112th and if so where was he stationed?" I don't think he got an answer. There have been references on several threads about a cable sent on the evening of 11/22 from Fort Sam Houston to Strike Command, McDill AFB in Florida. In the cable, reference was made, to information obtained by Detective Don Stringfellow of the Dallas Police Department. I managed to locate a copy of the cable, which you can find here: https://archive.org/details/nsia-ArmyIntelligenceJFK I think this is in the Weisberg collection. L.D. Stringfellow was a Detective in the Dallas Police Department's Special Service Bureau of which Revill was a Lieutenant. http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Batchelor_Ex_5002.pdf Note the reference in this military intelligence file's cable to Harvey Lee Oswald Steve Thomas
  13. How did the police first learn that Oswald lived at 1026 N. Beckley? His employment records at the TSBD listed him at 2515 W. 5th St. in Irving. So how did they know about Beckley? Arthur C. Johnson, the owner of the rooming house on Beckley told the Warren Commission (10H303) Mr. JOHNSON. Well, they just came down there looking for--uh--Oswald. Mr. BELIN. Did they say what his full name was? Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, I believe they did. Mr. BELIN. Lee Harvey Oswald? Mr. JOHNSON. I believe they did. Mr. BELIN. Did they say how they happened to come there? Mr. JOHNSON. "Well, uh--after he was--uh--apprehended out there, they searched him and found my address in his pocket. Mr. BELIN. Your address of 1026 North Beckley? Mr. JOHNSON. That's right. I've never seen that piece of paper in any of the evidence sheets. In addition, that's not how the police tell it. Detective Bob Carroll was the officer who grabbed Oswald's pistol out of his hand and stuck in his belt at the Texas Theater. He drove the car that carried Oswald back to City Hall. (7H25) Concerning the car ride back to City Hall: Mr. BELIN. Did he give his name? Mr. CARROLL. He gave, the best I recall, I wasn't able to look closely, but the best I recall, he gave two names, I think. I don't recall what the other one was. Mr. BELIN. Did he give two names? Or did someone in the car read from the identification? Mr. CARROLL. Someone in the car may have read from the identification. I know two names, the best I recall, were mentioned. Mr. BELIN. Were any addresses mentioned? Mr. CARROLL. Not that I recall; no, sir. Mr. BELIN. Did you ever hear anyone say anything about his having an address on North Beckley or on Beckley Street? Mr. CARROLL. I heard later, but I couldn't say who it was that said it. Mr. BELIN. When you say later, you mean later than what? Mr. CARROLL. Later that day. Mr. BELIN. Was this after you relinquished custody of Oswald? Mr. CARROLL. Yes. Mr. BELIN. Up to that time had you heard it? Mr. CARROLL. I don't recall hearing it prior to the time I was in the city hall. Guy Rose was one of the first police officers to talk to Oswald when they arrived at the station. He told the WC: (7H229) Mr. Ball: Did you ask him what his address was? Mr. Rose: Yes, but from there, he wouldn’t tell me – He just said, “You just find out”. Mr. Ball: Now, did anybody ever tell you that his address was 1026 N. Beckley? Mr. Rose: Later they did – right then they didn’t: no sir. Mr. Ball: You didn’t know it at that time? Mr. Rose; No sir, I didn’t Detective Richard Sims sat in on Oswald's first interrogation beginning at 2:20PM (7H158) Mr. BALL There was one time there that you learned that he had a room at 1026 North Beckley--when did you learn that? Mr. SIMS. I don't know when that was, now, that was found out that first day, I believe... Mr. BALL. Can you tell me whether or not you are the one that found out he had a room at 1026 North Beckley? Mr. SIMS. No, sir; I didn't. Mr. BALL. He didn't tell you that? Mr. SIMS. No, sir; I don't believe he did. On Friday afternoon November 22nd, 3 Dallas Police Officers and 3 Dallas Co. Sheriff's Deputies were dispatched to 2515 W. Fifth St. in Irving Texas. Oswald had been arrested at about 1:50PM, arrived at City Hall after 2:00 PM and was taken into Captain Fritz's office at 2:20PM. Police Officers Adamcik (7H202), Rose (7H227) and Stovall (7H186) are unanimous in saying that Captain Fritz dispatched them to Irving at 2:30 PM. They are also unanimous in saying that when they arrived at this address, they had to wait for 35-40 minutes for the Deputy Sheriffs to arrive since Irving was outside their jurisdiction. In his after-action report filed with Chief Curry (City of Dallas archives - JFK Collection) Box 3, Folder# 1, Item# 3 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box3.htm Guy Rose wrote that after the Deputies showed up, they arrived at the front door at 3:30PM. Harry Weatherford, Buddy Walthers, and J. L. Oxford were the deputies dispatched to Irving. You can find their accounts in the Supplementary Reports they filed with Sheriff Decker in volume 19 of the WC Hearings. Walthers, Weatherford and Sheriff Decker all said that Ruth Paine gave them a telephone number where Oswald could be reached and that they criss-crossed that number and came up with the Beckley St. address. At 2:40 PM, W.E. Potts, B.L. Senkel and Lt. E.L. Cunningham were dispatched to 1026 N. Beckley. Potts wrote in his after-action report (Box 2, Folder# 9, Item# 32) http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm that after he finished taking some affidavits, Fritz dispatched them to the Beckely St address at 2:40 and they arrived at Beckley at 3:00PM. Detective B.L. Senkel also said in his after action report (Dallas Police Archives Box 3, Folder# 12, Item#1) that they arrived at 1026 N. Beckley at 3:00PM. They checked the register and found that Oswald had been living there since October 14th. Because of that 40 minute wait at the Irving address, the police actually arrived at the Beckley St. address BEFORE they searched the Irving address. They did not search the room on Beckley until Detective Turner, David Johnston, and Deputy DA Bill Alexander arrived with a search warrant at 4:30 or 5:00PM (Potts, Dallas City Archives - JFK Collection) So, if the police had already been at Beckley for 30 minutes before they began the search at Irving to find a telephone number that they criss-crossed, how did they know about Beckley? According to Will Fritz, someone, whose name he could not remember gave him Oswald's Beckley address before he began interrogating Oswald: (4H207) Mr. FRITZ. When I started to talk to this prisoner or maybe just before I started to talk to him, some officer told me outside of my office that he had a room on Beckley, I don't know who that officer was, I think we can find out, I have since I have talked to you this morning I have talked to Lieutenant Baker and he says I know maybe who that officer was, but I am not sure yet. (4H210) Mr. Ball. Was there anything said about where he lived? Mr. Fritz. Where he lived? Right at that time? Mr. Ball. Yes Mr. Fritz. I am sure I had no way of asking him where he lived, but I am not too sure about that – just how quick he told me because he corrected me, I thought he lived in Irving and he told me he didn’t live in Irving. He lived on Beckley as the officer had told me outside. Oswald's interrogation began around 2:20. FBI agent James Hosty, who may have gotten Oswald's phone number from Ruth Paine during one of his two visits on November 1st and 5th and could have criss-crossed the number earlier, did not arrive at Police Headquarters until 3:15PM. By then, Will Fritz already had the Beckley adddress. Find the answer to who that officer was who gave it to Fritz and you might begin to learn who set Oswald up. Was this officer possibly Detective Leonard Don Stringfellow? In the National Archives, there is a message dated November 26, 1963 from the Commanding General, U.S. Continental Army Command re-transmitting a message dated November 23, 1963 from someone at Fort Sam Houston, in San Antonio to CINC U.S. Strike Command at McDill Air Force Base in Florida. The November 23rd message summarizes a telephone conversation between a Captain Saxton in Strike Command and a Lieutenant Colonel Fons, Deputy Chief of Staff, Intelligence at 4th Army Headquarters at Fort Sam Houston that took place on November 23, 1963. In the middle of this summary, there is this passage: “ASSISTANT CHIEF DON STRINGFELLOW, INTELLIGENCE SECTION, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT, NOTIFIED 112TH INTC GP, THIS HQ, THAT INFORMATION OBRAINED FROM OSWALD REVEALED HE HAD DEFECTED TO CUBA IN 1959 AND IS CARD CARRYING MEMBER OF COMMUNIST PARTY EVALUATION B-3 (FOUO) DCSI COMMENT , FBI, DALLAS, TEXAS, AND SAN ANTONIO LIGHT NEWSPAPER STATED OSWALD TRAVELED TO MOSCOW, USSR, IN 1959. POSSIBILITY EXISTS THAT OSWALD MAY HAVE TRAVELED TO USSR VIA CUBA, IN VIEW OF ABOVE INFORMATION UNCOVERED BY DALLAS POLICE.” In November, 1963 Leonard Don Stringfellow was a Detective in the Criminal Intelligence Section of the Dallas Police Department Special Services Bureau, headed by Captain W. P. Gannaway. What is interesting about this document is that is says that Detective Stringfellow “notified 112th Intelligence Group, this Headquarters…” I believe that this message was the one Col. Robert Jones, formerly of the 112 Military Intelligence Group in San Antonio was asked about during his testimony before the HSCA on April 20, 1978. (History Matters Archive – Unpublished testimony of Robert Jones, pp. 55-57. http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...jones_0055a.htm Jones told the HSCA that while he did not know who prepared the cable, the cable was prepared by Mr. Arthur Nagle on the staff of the Chief of Staff, Intelligence, Fort Sam Houston. The From line on the original cable reads: FM CGASARFOUR FTSAMHOUSTON TEX. This could be Commanding General, Assistant Secretary, Fourth Army Headquarters Fort Sam Houston. He also definitely said that the original cable had not been prepared by the 112th. The RIF for this document reads as follows: AGENCY INFORMATION AGENCY : USA RECORD NUMBER : 197-10002-10369 RECORDS SERIES : HEADQUARTERS FILES, PENTAGON TELECOMMUNICATIONS CENTER DOCUMENT INFORMATION ORIGINATOR : COMMANDING GENERAL US CONTINENTAL ARMY COMMAND FROM : TO : CINC, US STRIKE COMMAND TITLE : INFORMATION ON FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE DATE : 11/26/1963 PAGES : 3 DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT SUBJECTS : MILITARY DOMESTIC SURVEILLANCE (SECURITY RISKS/COUNTERINTELLIGENCE); MILITARY DOMESTIC SURVEILLANCE (FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE); LEE HARVEY OSWALD; COLLINS, BARBARA; GIBSON, RICHARD; OSWALD, HARVEY LEE: BACKGROUND INFORMATION, CONNECTION WITH COMMITTEE; MEMBER OF COMMUNIST PARTY; TRAVEL TO USSR, CUBA; OSWALD, MARINA NIKOLAEVNA: SPOUSE; STRINGFELLOW, DON: ASST CHIEF, INTELLIGENCE SECTION, DALLAS POLICE DEPT; MILITARY INTELLIGENCE LIAISON WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT (DALLAS POLICE) CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL CURRENT STATUS : OPEN DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 07/30/1996 COMMENTS : COPY ATTACHED Ironically, several of the individuals referenced in the original cable were with President Kennedy four days before his assassination when he visited MacDill Air Force Base in Tampa on November 18th. In an article published by Frank DeBenedictis entitled: FOUR DAYS BEFORE DALLAS: JFK IN TAMPA http://www.lib.usf.edu/ldsu/digitalcollect...v16n2_94_57.pdf, DeBenedictis writes: “While Suncoast residents moved into their stadium and motorcade viewing spots, the Presidential party was landing at MacDill Air Force Base for a military welcome. On hand to greet Kennedy were General Paul D. Adams, Commander in Chief U.S. Strike Command; Lieutenant General Bruce K. Holloway, Adams’ deputy; General Walter Sweeney, Commander of TAC and headquartered at Langley A.F.B., Virginia; and General John K. Waters, Commander in Chief Continental Army Command, Ft. Monroe, Virginia.” At first, I thought FBI SA James Hosty was the source of information to the police department about Oswald's 1026 N. Beckley address since he was in charge of Oswald’s file but if he can be believed, he didn't know Oswald's address. Hosty (4H440 +) concerning his November 1st visit with Ruth Paine: "I then told her the purpose of my visit, that I was interested in locating the whereabouts of Lee Oswald. She readily admitted that Mrs. Marina Oswald and Lee Oswald's two children were staying with her. She said that Lee Oswald was living somewhere in Dallas. She didn't know where. She said it was in the Oak Cliff area but she didn't have his address". Concerning his November 5th visit: Mr. Hosty. Well, I was on my way to Fort Worth, and I did not have his residence. I thought I would stop by. Mrs. Paine told me she would attempt to locate where he was living. It was not too much out of my way, so I just drove over to Mrs. Paine's. I had another agent with me that day. Mr. Stern. Who Was that? Mr. Hosty. Agent Gary S. Wilson. We went to the front porch. I rang the bell, talked to Mrs. Paine, at which time she advised me that Lee Oswald had been out to visit her, visit his wife, at her house over the Weekend, but she had still not determined where he was living in Dallas... Mr. Stern. Did you take any action on this case. between November 5 and November 22? Mr. Hosty. No, sir. However, Hosty was contradicted by SS Inspector Thomas Kelley. Thomas Kelley was an Inspector with the Secret Service. He was dispatched from Louisville, KY to handle the Secret Service end of things and arrived in Dallas at 10:30PM. Thomas Kelley's testimony before the HSCA (vol. III pp. 332-333): Mr. MATTHEWS. Now, when you were in Dallas, you received information from an Agent Patterson that he had talked with an FBI agent regarding some top secret information in regard to Lee Harvey Oswald? Inspector KELLEY. Yes. Mr. MATTHEWS. And he indicated to that agent that he could not tell him what the information was, but that it would be exchanged at the Washington level? Inspector KELLEY. Yes. Mr. MATTHEWS. Specifically, he mentioned the fact that the agent had had contact with Marina Oswald some 10 days before the assassination? Inspector KELLEY. Yes. Mr. MATTHEWS. And you later learned that that agent was James P. Hosty? Inspector KELLEY. Yes. Mr. MATTHEWS. Did you ever find out what top secret information he was referring to? Inspector KELLEY. No, I didn't find out any top secret information he was referring to, but, of course, the information came to us shortly thereafter, perhaps at the same time, that the FBI had contacts with Oswald and had contact with Marina to find Oswald and to talk to him. In discussing what this information was later, I think that it referred to the fact that Oswald had been in Russia. Mr. MATTHEWS. Well, you say you think; did you ever discuss that with Inspector Malley? Inspector KELLEY. No, I didn't. Mr. MATTHEWS. Did you ever find that the agent who, in fact, had contact with Marina had been special agent James Hosty? Inspector KELLEY. Yes, I learned that as a general piece of information, that Hosty was the control agent for Lee Harvey Oswald and that in that connection he had contacted Marina. Mr. MATTHEWS. Did you ever learn about what has become known as the Hosty note? Inspector KELLEY. No; that never came to my attention. Hosty contacted Marina 10 days before the assassination. Then on the 16th, Oswald goes to the FBI and delivers his infamous “note.” Concerning his actions on the 22nd of November, Hosty testified: Mr. Hosty. All right. After the conference that lasted until about 9 a.m, I then left the office and joined an Army Intelligence agent, and an agent of the Alcohol Tax Unit of the Treasury Department. We had a conference concerning a case not related to Lee Oswald. This conference lasted most of the morning until about 11:45. At 11:45 the Army Intelligence agent and myself left, and walked over towards Main Street. Mr. Hosty. Shortly after 2 o'clock, we received information that this man had been captured and taken to the Dallas Police Department. One of our agents called from the Dallas Police Department and identified this man as Lee Harvey Oswald. I immediately recognized the name. Hosty (4H461) Mr. HOSTY. Right. There are no regional offices. I then took the file to the agent in charge, told him that we had a case on Lee Harvey Oswald. While I sat there he immediately called headquarters and advised headquarters here in Washington, D.C., that Lee Harvey Oswald was under arrest down at Dallas and had been observed shooting a police officer. They had eyewitnesses to his killing of Officer Tippit. Mr. STERN. How do you know that? Mr. HOSTY. This had been given to us by one of our agents from the call from the Dallas Police Department who had given the information. I don't know who it was. I did not receive the call. From the unpublished HSCA testimony of Robert Jones page 25: Referring to JFK Exhibit 101 - an FBI communication to the Director of the FBI and Special Agent in Charge in Dallas from Special Agent in Charge, San Antonio dated 11/22/63: Mr. Genzman. Would you read through the document and comment on its accuracy? Mr. Jones. The second line after San Antonio, "advised the news broadcasts that he learned Lee Harvey Oswald had been arrested", that should be changed. I was advised through a source in the police department. Page 29: Mr. Genzman. Could you identify your source? Mr. Jones. Without my records, I cannot, but I would like to state that he was a member if the 112th Military Intelligence, he was an agent. Mr. Genzman. Are you saying that these sources, which were military intelligence personnel, actually worked as law enforcement officers for these local agencies, or that they worked alongside these law enforcement agencies? Mr. Jones. Our special agents assigned to a military intelligence group were military personnel in most cases, and they would have sources within the police department that would be on the payroll of the police department report to them. And the source that I received this information from came through a source in the police department through my agent that I considered a source to me. Jones was asked if Captain Gannaway was this source. I believe that it was Detective Stringfellow. However, there is also the possibility that Deputy Chief George L. Lumpkin served as an Intelligence Agent in the Reserves. Ron Ecker posted the following in the JFK Lancer Forum on 11/13/04: Significantly, Peter Dale Scott in Deep Politics (p. 273-274) says that he had been “reliably informed” (he obviously chooses not to identify the source) that Deputy Chief Lumpkin, who drove the pilot car Whitmeyer was riding in, was “a member of the Army Intelligence Reserve.” Yet Scott refers to Whitmeyer as simply “a local army-reserve commander.” Why would Scott ignore any Army Intelligence role for Whitmeyer while making a point of Lumpkin being in the Army Intelligence Reserve? Lieutenant Jack Revill testified before the Warren Commission concerning a report he had filed with Chief Jesse Curry wherein he had wrongly listed Oswald’s address as 605 Elsbeth: Revill (5H41) Mr. RANKIN. And the words 605 Elsbeth Street, was that given by you? Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; this is the address we were given or I was given by some of the officers involved in the arrest. Mr. RANKIN. Who gave that to you? Mr. REVILL. I believe Detective Carroll, Carroll or Detective Taylor, they were both there. Lieutenant Revill told the Warren Commission that he drafted his report within 30 minutes to an hour of when he and Hosty had their conversation in the basement (5H39), but as we saw above, Detective Carroll did not know Oswald’s address until much later in the evening. Mr. RANKIN. And was that at the time you made this out that you were given that information? Mr. REVILL. Shortly before I made this out. Mr. RANKIN. You didn't even know where he lived then? Mr. REVILL. No, sir; I did not. I had never heard of him. Mr. RANKIN. You know that is wrong, don't you? Mr. REVILL. The 605? Mr. RANKIN. Yes. Mr. REVILL. I don't know. Mr. RANKIN. Is it wrong? Mr. REVILL. Yes; it is. Mr. DULLES. As of the time. Mr. REVILL. That is what they gave me. Mr. RANKIN. You found that out? Mr. DULLES. This is an address he once lived at. Mr. RANKIN. Do you know that? Mr. DULLES. This is correct. I want to find out what he knows about it. Mr. REVILL. Is this a-is this an incorrect address on Mr. Oswald where he was living at the time? Mr. RANKIN. If you check it up I think you will find--it is an incorrect address at the time. I think you will also find that 602 Elsbeth Street is where he lived at one time. Mr. REVILL. Now, where they got this address---- Mr. RANKIN. You never checked that? Mr. REVILL. I personally have not checked it but I am sure it has been checked. Mr. RANKIN. I see. Mr. REVILL. But this is the address I was given. (5H42) Mr. DULLES. Could I ask a question? Where did you get this address that you put on of 605 Elsbeth Street, do you recall? Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; from Detective E. B. Carroll or Detective Taylor. Mr. DULLES. Are they subordinates? Mr. REVILL. No; they are detectives assigned to the special service bureau. One of them works the narcotics squad and one of them is assigned to the vice unit. Mr. DULLES. You never ascertained where they got it? Mr. REVILL. No, sir; this might be the address that they got from Oswald, I do not know. I never even thought about it until you brought up the point that this is not the address. Mr. DULLES. Can you find out where they got this address? Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; I can. Mr. DULLES. I think that would be useful. I would like to know that. I would like to know where they got this address also. Mr. REVILL. It would have been the same day because this was made within an hour---- p. 47 The CHAIRMAN. I think that is all. Thank you, again, lieutenant. Mr. REVILL. I will attempt to find out on that address, and I shall let Mr. Sorrels know, with Secret Service. In their after-action reports filed with Chief Curry on December 3rd, neither Caroll (DPD Archives Box 5, Folder# 2, Item# 73), nor Detective E.E. Taylor, Special Services Bureau, Narcotics Section (DPD Archives Box 5, Folder# 2, Item# 81) make mention of giving Revill Oswald’s address and I have never seen a document or any other reference where Revill did in fact inform Sorrels where Carroll and Taylor got that address. Dallas Police Sergeant Gerald Hill rode in the front seat of the car that drove Oswald from the Texas Theater to City Hall. Hill says several times in his WC testimony (7H60) that he did not know where the Beckley Street address came from and was not aware of it before he turned Oswald over to Robbery and Homicide. Hill did not learn of it until 7:00 or 8:00PM that night. The normal booking process was bypassed in this case. Carroll, Hill and Walker all said that when arriving at City Hall, they went directly up to the third floor. None of the arresting officers who rode with Oswald from the Theater to downtown said that Oswald gave them his Beckley St. address. As a matter of fact, Oswald was refusing to tell anyone where he lived. I belive that Fritz was correct. When confronted with it, Oswald did not deny living there, but I don't believe he volunteered it either. I had been under the impression that the police got the Beckley street address when Officers Stovall, Rose, and Adamcik went to the Irving address and either got the address from Ruth Paine, or she gave them a telephone number that the police crossed referenced. However, none of the three Dallas City Police officers mentions in their reports getting the Beckley St. address from Ruth Paine. Harry Weatherford, Buddy Walthers, and J.L. Oxford were the Sheriff’s Deputies dispatched to Irving. Walthers, Weatherford and Sheriff Decker all said that Ruth Paine gave them a telephone number where Oswald could be reached and that they criss-crossed that number and came up with the Beckley St. address. However, their accounts differ. Harry Weatherford 19H503 Supplementary Investigation Report filed 11/23/63 I stayed with Mrs. Oswald and Mrs. Payne while the rest of the men searched the house….While standing near the phone bar, I saw a BLACK telephone address book which I picked up and thumbed through, finding in the “O’s” the name of Lee Oswald, Texas School Book Depository and the telephone number. Then another phone number, which I believe was written in PENCIL. I asked what this number was, pointing to this pencil number, and Mrs. Payne said that is the phone where Lee was living. I gave this number to Deputy Buddy Walthers and told him to call the Sheriff and advise him of our findings. That this was all fitting in together with the Assassination of President Kennedy. From Richard S. Stovall's Warren Commission testimony 7H190 Concerning a list of items taken out of 2515 W. Fifth St. “I’ve got listed One BLUE Check telephone index book (addresses) – I’m not sure which bedroom that came from. Buddy Walthers 19H520 Supplementary Investigation Report filed 11/22/63 Mrs. Payne then gave us a telephone number and stated that was the number of Lee Oswald, however, she advised she did not know an address where he was staying. At this time, I called Sheriff Decker and advised him of this and he criss-crossed this telephone number and gave us an address of 1026 N. Beckley. He advised he would dispatch other officers to cover this address. In his Warren Commission testimony 7H549 taken July 23, 1964, Walthers changes the scenario slightly "We didn't go to the trouble of looking at any of this stuff much---just more or less confiscated it at the time, and we looked at it there just like that, and then we took all this stuff and put it in the car and then Mrs. Paine got a phone number from Mrs. Oswald where you could call Lee Harvey Oswald in Oak Cliff". Decker 19H462 Mrs. Payne gave Deputy Walthers a telephone number where she said that Lee Oswald had been staying at, however, she stated that she did not know the address. Officer Walthers then called me by public service giving me this information, whereupon, I had called Allan Sweatt, Chief Criminal Deputy and Deputy Clint Lewis to locate this address both by criss cross and also verifying same through telephone company. Mr. Sweatt reported to me that the telephone number was 1026 N. Beckley. At this time I requested that David Johnston, Justice of the Peace, to issue a search warrant to that location for officers to search the premises. Information was obtained at this address from the landlady to the effect that a man by the name of O.H. Lee had been living at this location for a period of two weeks. Did Ruth Paine volunteer the number? Did Harry Weatherford find it? Did Ruth Paine get the number from Marina? Allan Sweatt 19H533 makes no mention of this in his Supplementary Investigation Report file with Sheriff Decker on 11/23/63 J.L. Oxford, the other deputy present, J.L. Oxford Supplementary Investigation Report filed with Sheriff Decker 11/23/63 makes no mention of Ruth Paine giving the police Oswald’s phone number. Also, they say that they got the Beckley St. phone number AFTER the search of the Irving address was underway, however, police have BEEN AT THE BECKLEY ST. ADDRESS FOR OVER 30 MINUTES BY THIS TIME. Ruth Paine 3H37 Lee calls on October 14th to report that he has found employment at the TSBD Mrs. Paine. He gave me a telephone number, possibly this same weekend. The weekend of the 12th) Mrs. Paine. Yes. He said of the room where he was staying, renting a room, and I could reach him here if she went into labor. Mr. Jenner. Just stick to this particular occasion. What telephone number – did you record it? Lee WANTED to be reached (His wife was about to give birth to Rachel) Mrs. Paine. Yes. In INK in my telephone book. Mrs. Paine. The number was WH2-1985 Mr. Jenner. He did not give you an address? Mrs. Paine. No. He gave her a second phone number. She said she couldn’t remember when or how he transmitted that number to her. She said Oswald told her he had changed rooms, but thought that it was after he had started work at the TSBD Mr. Jenner. On the second occasion, did he give you the location, or even the area in Dallas where his second room was located? Mrs. Paine. No. In her testimony, (3H79-81) describing the search at 2515 W. Fifth St., Ruth Paine makes no mention whatsoever of giving the police Oswald’s telephone number. Ruth Paine 9H365 Mr. Jenner. Directing your attention to Commission Exhibit No. 402 which is your address book,...Is there anything on any of the entries which appear on those pages which relate to the Oswalds? Mrs. Paine. The one on the left is the police officer who picked up the address book. Mr. Jenner. Those are his initials and date that he picked it up? Mrs. Paine. I don't know who picked it up. And I didn't see it was gone. I was reading through Will Fritz's testimony before the Warren Commission in volume IV and a careful reading of his testimony leaves the impression that Fritz knew of the Beckley Street address before he dispatched officers to Irving. Mr. BALL. Some officer told you that he thought this man had a room on Beckley? Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Had he been brought into the station by that time? Mr. FRITZ. He was at the station when we got there, you know. Mr. BALL. He was? Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; so then I talked to him and I ASKED HIM WHERE HIS ROOM WAS ON BECKLEY. Mr. BALL. Then you started to interrogate Oswald, did you? Mr. FRITZ. yes, sir. Mr. BALL. And you called him into your room? Mr. FRITZ Yes, sir. In other words, Fritz had the Beckley Street address before he ever started talking to Oswald. Fritz was in such a hurry to get something to hold Oswald on, that he dispatched his officers to Irving without a search warrant. Fritz, Sims, Boyd, and Decker all speak of a curious little encounter just after Fritz emerges from the TSBD. They have found the rifle and learned that Oswald lives in Irving. Fritz is all hot to trot. He's determined to go charging off to Irving taking Sims and Boyd with him. Just as he's about to head off, Decker sends word that he wants to talk to Fritz just a minute. What was the subject of that little conversation? None of them are asked by the WC, and none of them volunteer. Whatever it was, all of a sudden Fritz changes his mind, heads into the office, keeps Sims and Boyd with him, and sends other police officers to check out Irving. In the Arrest Report on Investigative Prisoner filed by M.M. McDonald against Lee Harvey Oswald as the murderer of President Kennedy and Officer Tippit. (Dallas Police ARchives, Box 1, Folder 3, Item# 17) at: http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box1.htm Now, without knowing when this Report was filled out, McDonald lists Oswald's arrest time as 1:40PM and gives his address as 1026 N. Beckley. I believe that McDonald is off by about 10 minutes on the arrest time, but it's interesting that he gives the Beckley St. address. If McDonald filled this out as soon as he got back to the station, I wonder where he got the Beckley St. address? I don't believe Oswald gave it to the police. When he was arrested and brought back to the station, he had two ID cards on him. One was for A.J. Hidell and one was for Lee Harvey Oswald. Detective Guy Rose told the Warren Commission that: Mr. ROSE. There were some people in the office from the Book Depository and we talked to a few of them and then in just a few minutes they brought in Lee Oswald and I talked to him for a few minutes? Mr. BALL. What did you say to him or did he say to you? Mr. ROSE. Well, the first thing I asked him was what his name was and he told me it was Hidell. Mr. BALL. Did he tell you it was Hidell? Mr. ROSE. Yes; he did. Mr. BALL. He didn't tell you it was Oswald? Mr. ROSE. No; he didn't, not right then--he did later. In a minute--I found two cards--I found a card that said "A. Hidell." And I found another card that said "Lee Oswald" on it, and I asked him which of the two was his correct name. He wouldn't tell me at the time, he just said, "You find out." And then in just a few minutes Captain Fritz came in and he told me to get two men and go to Irving and search his house. Mr. BALL. Did you ask him what his address was? Mr. ROSE. Yes; but from there, he wouldn't tell me--he just said, "You just find out." Mr. BALL. Now, did anybody ever tell you that his address was 1026 North Beckley? Mr. ROSE. Later they did--right then they didn't; no, sir. Mr. BALL. You didn't know it at that time? Mr. ROSE. No, sir; I didn't. When he was asked, "Which one are you", he responded, You figure it out". I don't think Oswald volunteered his address. In his testimony before the HSCA, Inspector Kelley was asked what investigation he had made into the background of Lee Harvey Oswald (vol. III p. 330). In the course of his reply, Kelley said, “The Dallas Police had some information on him and the State Department had some information in connection with his trips to Russia. The military was supplying information to our headquarters and it was being provided to me at Dallas.” Captain Fritz knew Oswald lived on Beckley before he started talking to him. The address didn’t come from Oswald and it didn’t come from any of the arresting officers. The Sheriff’s Deputies didn’t learn it until after the police had already arrived at Beckley. If Hosty can be believed, it didn’t come from the FBI. I believe it came from someone associated with military intelligence. Steve Thomas
  14. Cory, I don't know who wrote the Christchurch article you linked to, but I think in their zeal, or haste, or bad proofreading, they got the year wrong. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/prouty2.txt "In a long account in the "Christchurch Star' about Lee Harvey Oswald -- which included that fine studio portrait in a business suit, white shirt, and tie -- these press services provided . . ." This photograph appeared on page two of The Fort Worth Press, 11/16/59 with an article by Kent Bifle entitled "Turncoat Hangs Up on Mother." https://my.christchurchcitylibraries.com/the-christchurch-star-23-november-1963/ Again it was widely reported when Oswald, now with a Russian wife and child, returned to the United States in 1962. The portrait of him in The Christchurch Star had appeared in The Fort Worth Press on 16 November 1963. Steve Thomas
  15. Steve Thomas

    Dirty Tricks: Nixon, Watergate and the CIA

    Shane, In your work, or in Dick Russell's, were you able to pinpoint the exact date Veciana was in Dallas and met with "Bishop"? I have been trying, unsuccessfully I might add, to establish a cross-reference between the Veciana/Bishop meeting and a picnic held for Cuban exiles at White Rock Lake Park in September of 1963. Weinstein questioned the Castorrs about this picnic and showed them still pictures taken from TV outtakes which allegedly show Oswald being at this picnic. Steve Thomas
  16. Steve Thomas

    Interesting Tidbit on the Rifle

    Josh, Thanks. This is from page 17 of McCall's FBI interview. I hadn't realized before that it was Jack Lawrence who went to the FBI about Oswald's car ride. He called the FBI when Bogard wouldn't. On page 18 McCall says that Bogard told him that Oswald's demonstration ride lasted for 45 minutes. Usually, taking a potential customer is taken for a demo ride that lasts for a couple of blocks. This one lasted for an unusually long period of time. This doesn't definitively help you with the Curry/South Carolina rifle mystery, but I thought it was an interesting side note. If Lawrence took it upon himself to go to the FBI, did he and McCall also go to Curry? Steve Thomas
  17. Steve Thomas

    Interesting Tidbit on the Rifle

    Josh, One possible (and I say possible) name to look at is Harry R. McCall. ALLEGED CONTACT BY LEE HARVEY OSWALD TO PURCHASE CAR AT DOWNTOWN LINCO Oswald 201 File Vol 52 page 19 FBI interview of Harry Randolph McCall - automobile salesman at the downtown Lincoln-Mercury car dealership - along with Albert Bogard, and Jack Lawrence. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=110333&relPageId=19&search=%22South_Carolina%20minister%22 Steve Thomas
  18. Steve Thomas

    Dirty Tricks: Nixon, Watergate and the CIA

    Shane, In his review of your book, Dick Russell wrote, " Was the cover-up for fear of secrets being divulged, from a Washington call-girl ring to the Kennedy assassination? " In your view, what secrets relating to the Kennedy assassination was the cover-up designed to conceal? Steve Thomas
  19. David, I'm sorry. That was a typo on my part. His name was Mentzel. His call sign was 91. You can find a copy of the DPD radio districts in the Putnam Exhibit# 1 at 21H274 here: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1138#relPageId=298&tab=page I'm pretty sure 10th and Patton was in his District. Oak Cliff is in the southwest substation. You'll find all these guys in the Second Platoon roster 8:00AM to 4:00PM shift: Batchelor 5002 page 126 of his report, page 10 of the pdf file https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Batchelor_Ex_5002.pdf Steve Thomas
  20. David, I wrote an essay on a possible Rambler lead that you can read here, if you're interested: https://myjfksite.weebly.com/ The upshot was that one of the officers of the Dallas chapter of Alpha66/SNFE that met at the house on Harlendale owned a Rambler. Steve Thomas
  21. David, Probably, but I don't think it's part of the JFK Collection. A researcher might be able to pick up info on this from: DALLAS POLICE ARCHIVES 1885 - 1978. Personnel records, arrest and jail logs, criminal circulars, traffic accident reports correspondence, reports, procedure documents, photographs, and equipment. Access to some items is restricted due to condition or age. Please consult with the archivist. Manuscript/Archives Collections - D Dallas Public Library https://dallaslibrary2.org/dallashistory/archives/d.php Who normally worked that area? Wentzel? Steve Thomas
  22. David, This Portal to Texas History (a digital repository hosted by the University of North Texas Libraries.) picture was obtained from the Dallas Municipal Archives JFK Collection. It's part of a series of photos of the Tippit shooting scene. You can find these in the DPD Archives in Box 12. In particular, this is one of the photos in Box 12, Folder# 45, Items 15, 16, and 17. http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box12.htm It's a view looking south on Patton from the 10th and Patton intersection. This takes me back quite a few years, but I think I remember that it was established that the accident at this intersection took place several days before November 22nd, and had nothing to do with the Tippit shooting. Steve Thomas
  23. David, You posted: Bentley said he gave Oswald's wallet to T.L. Baker of the Homicide and Robbery Bureau. Hill says here that he kept the suspect's gun in his possession for at least an hour after Oswald was brought in to police headquarters. So; Bentley, Hill, Carroll and C.T. Walker are all hanging around Westbrook's office after they got back from the Theater. The suspect's wallet, the gun and the shells were turned over to Lt. Baker, and not the crime lab. On the 22nd, a coat was found on Industrial Blvd. It was turned over to Lieutenant Kaminski, who turned it over to Homicide and Robbery. Westphal and Parks were in the Special Service Bureau. Westbrook told the WC that he gave the jacket that was found in the parking lot behind the gas station to some officer, whose name he didn't remember. It's unknown how this jacket got to the crime lab where it was entered into evidence and given to the FBI on the 26th. It gives one reason to pause. Steve Thomas
  24. Jim, I had some questions about Benevides. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/benavide.htm Mr. BELIN - Then what happened? Did the officers ever get in touch with you? Mr. BENAVIDES - Later on that evening, about 4 o'clock, there was two officers came by and asked for me, Mr. Callaway asked me---I had told them that I had seen the officer, and the reporters were there and I was trying to hide from the reporters because they will just bother you all the time. I was just trying to hide from the reporters and everything, and these two officers came around and asked me if I'd seen him, and I told him yes, and told them what I had seen,... Mr. BELIN - Did he ever take you to the police station and ask you if you could identify him? Mr. BENAVIDES - No; they didn't. Callaway makes no mention of this 4:00 PM visit. Another FBI file from SA Joseph J. Loeffler to SAC (89-43) dated December 4, 1963. https://books.google.com/books?id=IdnhAQAAQBAJ&pg=PT757&lpg=PT757&dq=%22Domingo+Benavides%22+CBS&source=bl&ots=eODtmXcfZ5&sig=FqLkfGuuiw6qUA5NRAnj1nJeifk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj0trfvxfPYAhVD7IMKHX2PCoA4ChDoAQgpMAE#v=onepage&q=%22Domingo%20Benavides%22%20CBS&f=false “4 empty hulls – 2 found by unidentified witness at the scene of the shooting of Tippit – 400 E. 10th St. and given to Officer, J.M. Poe. He has no recollection of who gave them to him.” The memo goes on to talk about the shells found by the Davis sisters. Poe's after-action report dated 11/22/63 DPD Archives, Box 1, Folder# 4, Item# 5 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box1.htm Poe wrote, "Unidentified witness handed Officer Poe two empty hulls in an empty cigarette package and stated, "These were the bullets that killed the officer.". The bottom of the Report is marked “Pending”. The only mention of Benavides in the DPD Archives Index is a Report by James Leavelle. DPD Archives Box 16, Folder# 12, Item# 6. http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box1617.htm It's dated the 22nd, and it had to have been written up after 6:30PM, because he mentions the 6:30 lineup. Leavelle wrote, "Another witness who saw the officer laying in the street, but did not see the suspect was a Domingo Benavides..." Leavelle wrote that Benavides found two shells and turned them over to Poe, who in turn, turned them over to Pete Barnes, who "dusted the car for prints". At the time Poe wrote his Report, Benavides was still unidentified. By 6:30, he is identified by name in Leavelle's Report. Benavides said that 2 officers came by (at Dootch Motors, I believe), at 4:00 PM and he told them what he had seen. If James Levealle wrote up a Report on November 22nd identifying Benevides by name,, why does the FBI Report filed by James Loeffler on December 4, 1963 says that it was an “unidentified witness” who gave Poe the shells, and that Poe “has no recollection of who gave them to him”? Who were the two officers? Where is their report? Why did the police and the WC give so much more attention to Helen Markham than they did to Domingo Benavides? He was actually closer to the shooter than Markham was, wasn't he? Is it because Benavides describes a shooter who looked different than Oswald? http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/benavide.htm Mr. BELIN - I am between 5' 10" and 5' 11". Closer to 5' 11", I believe. Mr. BENAVIDES - I would say he was about your size, Mr. BELIN - Was he average weight, slender, or heavy? Mr. BENAVIDES - I would say he was average weight. Mr. BELIN - What color hair did he have? Mr. BENAVIDES - Oh, dark. I mean not dark. Mr. BELIN - Black hair? Mr. BENAVIDES - No. Not black or brown, just kind of a---- Mr. BELIN - You say he is my size, my weight, and my color hair? Mr. BENAVIDES - He kind of looks like---well, his hair was a little bit curlier. Mr. BELIN - Anything else about him that looked like me. Mr. BENAVIDES - No. that is all. Mr. BELIN - What about his skin? Was he fair complexioned or dark complexioned? Mr. BENAVIDES - He wasn't dark. Mr. BELIN - Average complexion? Mr. BENAVIDES - No; a little bit darker than average. Of course he looked, his skin looked a little bit ruddier than mine. Mr. BENAVIDES - I remember the back of his head seemed like his hairline was sort of--looked like his hairline sort of went square instead of tapered off. and he looked like he needed a haircut for about 2 weeks, but his hair didn't taper off, it kind of went down and squared off and made his head look fiat in back. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hill_gl.htm WC testimony of Gerald Hill The first man that came up to me, he said, "The man that shot him was a white male about 5'10", weighing 160 to 170 pounds, and brown bushy hair." Mr. BELIN. Now, let me interrupt you here, sergeant. Do you remember the name of the person that gave you the description? Mr. HILL. No. I turned him over to Poe, and I didn't even get his name. Mr. BELIN - When you put these two shells that you found in this cigarette package, what did you do with them? Mr. BENAVIDES - I gave them to an officer. Mr. BELIN - That came out to the scene shortly after? Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN - Do you remember the name of the officer? Mr. BENAVIDES - No, sir; I didn't even ask him. I just told him that this was the shells that he had fired, and I handed them to him. Seemed like he was a young guy, maybe 24. Mr. BELIN - When the officers came out there, did you tell them what you had seen? Mr. BENAVIDES - No, sir. Mr. BELIN - What did you do? Mr. BENAVIDES - I left right after. I give the shells to the officer. I turned around and went back and we returned to work. Who is we? Who were these two officers, how did they get Benavides' name if Poe didn't know who he was, and where is their Report? Steve Thomas
  25. Steve Thomas

    Are we looking at a new Cuban Missile Crisis?

    "This Troika of Tyranny, this triangle of terror stretching from Havana to Caracas to Managua, is the cause of immense human suffering, the impetus of enormous regional instability and the genesis of a sordid cradle of communism in the Western Hemisphere,” Bolton said. “The United States looks forward to watching each corner of the triangle fall.” National Security Advisor, John Bolton Thursday, November 2, 2018. Steve Thomas