Evan Burton Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Lets have a look pre-flight, during the loading of the LRV onto the descent stage. (KSC-71PC-346, cropped and annotated) So we have now confirmed that the LRV was mounted where I claim, and not where Jack claims. Will Jack admit he is wrong? I doubt it. Kathleen, that is why you cannot rely on Jack's Apollo claims - they are riddled with errors and he refuses to admit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Lastly, let's compare all the MESAs. What you have there is, from left to right, the Apollo 11 training LM (S69-31585), the Apollo 17 LM (AS17-140-21370), the Apollo 12 MESA (AS12-46-6725) and the Apollo 16 MESA (AS16-116-18578). All images cropped. Notice how they all show the same thing. Have a look at the Apollo 11 MESA: (AS11-40-5873, cropped and annotated) Again - if Jack is right, why do all these images show the same thing... yet Apollo 11 through 14 did not carry LRVs? Simple - because Jack is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd W. Vaughan Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 I couldn't find a moon walk thread here because it was everybody fighting. But I have questions. Maybe Jack White could answer. First Moon Walk How did we get through the Van Allen Radiation Belts? Why is it that when the astronauts were on the moon there was gravity. On youtube.com you can see them jumping, not "flying." Often we were shown how lack of gravity made the astronauts in their capsule float freely in the air. Why didn't we see this on the first moon walk? Also, if there's no gravity, how could they stay on the moon? Wouldn't they fly off into space? And the rocket too? Thank You, Kathy C There is gravity on the moon, about one-sixth that of earth. The astronots are seen jumping because they were suspended by wires and filmed in slo-mo in a studio on earth. No Apollo missions are likely to have reached the moon. No astronots were exposed to VanAllen radiation because they never left low earth orbit. Jack This, from the guy who once asked how the "astronots" could have carried the Lunar Rover down the steps of the LEM. Too funny. Todd is resorting to fiction again. Officially, the rovers were stowed outside the LMs, just to port of the descent ladder. But there are NO PHOTOS showing this. If I ever said anything about carrying a LM down the ladder, I may have been trying to make a joke...since no believable photos exist of the "stowed" LM. Jack No Jack, it is you who is resorting to fiction. You raised the question, in all seriousness, back on the Della Rosa forum several years back. Somewhere in my files I have a print out of it. I replied and explained it to you and you had nothing to say. And there are PLENTY of photos showing the rover stowed there and being deployed on the moon. Pitiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) I couldn't find a moon walk thread here because it was everybody fighting. But I have questions. Maybe Jack White could answer. First Moon Walk How did we get through the Van Allen Radiation Belts? Why is it that when the astronauts were on the moon there was gravity. On youtube.com you can see them jumping, not "flying." Often we were shown how lack of gravity made the astronauts in their capsule float freely in the air. Why didn't we see this on the first moon walk? Also, if there's no gravity, how could they stay on the moon? Wouldn't they fly off into space? And the rocket too? Thank You, Kathy C There is gravity on the moon, about one-sixth that of earth. The astronots are seen jumping because they were suspended by wires and filmed in slo-mo in a studio on earth. No Apollo missions are likely to have reached the moon. No astronots were exposed to VanAllen radiation because they never left low earth orbit. Jack This, from the guy who once asked how the "astronots" could have carried the Lunar Rover down the steps of the LEM. Too funny. Todd is resorting to fiction again. Officially, the rovers were stowed outside the LMs, just to port of the descent ladder. But there are NO PHOTOS showing this. If I ever said anything about carrying a LM down the ladder, I may have been trying to make a joke...since no believable photos exist of the "stowed" LM. Jack No Jack, it is you who is resorting to fiction. You raised the question, in all seriousness, back on the Della Rosa forum several years back. Somewhere in my files I have a print out of it. I replied and explained it to you and you had nothing to say. And there are PLENTY of photos showing the rover stowed there and being deployed on the moon. Pitiful. OK. I call your bluff. SHOW me the PLENTY OF PHOTOS of rover stowed and being deployed on the MOON. I have examined EVERY photo alleged to be shot on the moon. There is not a single photo among the 5771 such as Todd alleges. Pitiful. Jack Edited March 21, 2011 by Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) I did not "forget to mention" anything. I purposely showed the same view from TWO DIFFERENT MISSIONS to show that they are ALMOST IDENTICAL. What are chances of that? Look at the two views. Explain why the camera viewpoint is identical. Only slight differences in the two studio sets give away that the pix are "from different missions." Jack Edited March 21, 2011 by Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) Burton of course is aware that I did not "forget to mention" the views were from different missions. My studies were done around ten years ago, which caused him to appear on forums to "debunk" me. He still is making the same non-sequitur answers he did a decade ago. He has yet to show a single photo of a rover from any of three missions still attached to the LM, being lowered, being assembled, being outfitted...BECAUSE THERE ARE NONE. This apparent oversight was likely caused by the weight involved. In one-sixth gravity, two men could easily handle the weight involved. In an earthbound studio however, handling SIX TIMES THE WEIGHT was a chore that was too much for two men...so they skipped it. Think of the photo-op missed. An automotive device unloaded and assembled on the moon! It would have made magazine covers throughout the world. Why would NASA pass up three different opportunities to take such historic photos? Instead there are dozens of repetitive shots of astronots picking up rocks and bunny hopping around, and saluting the flag. Trivial photos instead of HISTORIC SHOTS...a dune buggy being assembled on the moon. (remember, the LRV came folded up and required assembly and outfitting with equipment; not a single photo documents such a historic first!) Jack Edited March 21, 2011 by Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd W. Vaughan Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I couldn't find a moon walk thread here because it was everybody fighting. But I have questions. Maybe Jack White could answer. First Moon Walk How did we get through the Van Allen Radiation Belts? Why is it that when the astronauts were on the moon there was gravity. On youtube.com you can see them jumping, not "flying." Often we were shown how lack of gravity made the astronauts in their capsule float freely in the air. Why didn't we see this on the first moon walk? Also, if there's no gravity, how could they stay on the moon? Wouldn't they fly off into space? And the rocket too? Thank You, Kathy C There is gravity on the moon, about one-sixth that of earth. The astronots are seen jumping because they were suspended by wires and filmed in slo-mo in a studio on earth. No Apollo missions are likely to have reached the moon. No astronots were exposed to VanAllen radiation because they never left low earth orbit. Jack This, from the guy who once asked how the "astronots" could have carried the Lunar Rover down the steps of the LEM. Too funny. Todd is resorting to fiction again. Officially, the rovers were stowed outside the LMs, just to port of the descent ladder. But there are NO PHOTOS showing this. If I ever said anything about carrying a LM down the ladder, I may have been trying to make a joke...since no believable photos exist of the "stowed" LM. Jack No Jack, it is you who is resorting to fiction. You raised the question, in all seriousness, back on the Della Rosa forum several years back. Somewhere in my files I have a print out of it. I replied and explained it to you and you had nothing to say. And there are PLENTY of photos showing the rover stowed there and being deployed on the moon. Pitiful. OK. I call your bluff. SHOW me the PLENTY OF PHOTOS of rover stowed and being deployed on the MOON. I have examined EVERY photo alleged to be shot on the moon. There is not a single photo among the 5771 such as Todd alleges. Pitiful. Jack All, Jack claims, “There is not a single photo such as Todd alleges.” Jack has absolutely no clue as to what he is talking about. This site … http://www.apolloarchive.com/apollo_gallery.html …contains numerous photos of the LRV being fit checked for stowage on the LEM, loading and stowage photos, and even a closeout photo of the LRV packed in the LM. This site… http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/a15.html …contains numerous video clips of film showing the LRV being deployed. There are no still photos of the deployment as it was a two man job. Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) SHOW me the PLENTY OF PHOTOS of rover stowed and being deployed on the MOON. SHOW me the PLENTY OF PHOTOS of rover stowed and being deployed on the MOON. SHOW me the PLENTY OF PHOTOS of rover stowed and being deployed on the MOON. SHOW me the PLENTY OF PHOTOS of rover stowed and being deployed on the MOON. on the MOON Edited March 21, 2011 by Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I couldn't find a moon walk thread here because it was everybody fighting. But I have questions. Maybe Jack White could answer. First Moon Walk How did we get through the Van Allen Radiation Belts? Why is it that when the astronauts were on the moon there was gravity. On youtube.com you can see them jumping, not "flying." Often we were shown how lack of gravity made the astronauts in their capsule float freely in the air. Why didn't we see this on the first moon walk? Also, if there's no gravity, how could they stay on the moon? Wouldn't they fly off into space? And the rocket too? Thank You, Kathy C There is gravity on the moon, about one-sixth that of earth. The astronots are seen jumping because they were suspended by wires and filmed in slo-mo in a studio on earth. No Apollo missions are likely to have reached the moon. No astronots were exposed to VanAllen radiation because they never left low earth orbit. Jack This, from the guy who once asked how the "astronots" could have carried the Lunar Rover down the steps of the LEM. Too funny. Todd is resorting to fiction again. Officially, the rovers were stowed outside the LMs, just to port of the descent ladder. But there are NO PHOTOS showing this. If I ever said anything about carrying a LM down the ladder, I may have been trying to make a joke...since no believable photos exist of the "stowed" LM. Jack No Jack, it is you who is resorting to fiction. You raised the question, in all seriousness, back on the Della Rosa forum several years back. Somewhere in my files I have a print out of it. I replied and explained it to you and you had nothing to say. And there are PLENTY of photos showing the rover stowed there and being deployed on the moon. Pitiful. OK. I call your bluff. SHOW me the PLENTY OF PHOTOS of rover stowed and being deployed on the MOON. I have examined EVERY photo alleged to be shot on the moon. There is not a single photo among the 5771 such as Todd alleges. Pitiful. Jack All, Jack claims, “There is not a single photo such as Todd alleges.” Jack has absolutely no clue as to what he is talking about. This site … http://www.apolloarchive.com/apollo_gallery.html …contains numerous photos of the LRV being fit checked for stowage on the LEM, loading and stowage photos, and even a closeout photo of the LRV packed in the LM. This site… http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/a15.html …contains numerous video clips of film showing the LRV being deployed. There are no still photos of the deployment as it was a two man job. Todd There are no still photos of the deployment as it was a two man job. This is laughable! It is possible (and was done many times) for one of the actors to PAUSE and take a photo of the OTHER actor doing something. It was a one man job to lower the lanyard to unfold the LRV pallet. It was a one man job to take a photo of the LRV BEFORE AND AFTER LOWERING. The LRV had to be unfolded and assembled, and many parts added. There is no reason for this not being photographed. Both guys had cameras, and could pause at any time to shoot pictures, but did not shoot even one. Also they had a remote camera which could take photos of any action and include both actors in the scene. Todd is WAY OUT OF HIS ELEMENT HERE and ought to tuck his tail and run. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) This is laughable! It is possible (and was done many times) for one of the actors to PAUSE and take a photo of the OTHER actor doing something. It was a one man job to lower the lanyard to unfold the LRV pallet. It was a one man job to take a photo of the LRV BEFORE AND AFTER LOWERING. The LRV had to be unfolded and assembled, and many parts added. There is no reason for this not being photographed. Both guys had cameras, and could pause at any time to shoot pictures, but did not shoot even one. Also they had a remote camera which could take photos of any action and include both actors in the scene. Todd is WAY OUT OF HIS ELEMENT HERE and ought to tuck his tail and run. Jack Laughable? No what is laughable is Jack White and his inability to understand what it is that he sees. Not a good thing for a guy who thinks he is a "photo analyst" Never mind the still photos there is complete VIDEO of the entire unloading and set up process...ON THE MOON. Who would take intermitent stills when you can record MOTION to document a complex process. Jack White s simply OUT OF HIS ELEMENT here and ought to tuck his tail and run. Edited March 21, 2011 by Craig Lamson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd W. Vaughan Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) I couldn't find a moon walk thread here because it was everybody fighting. But I have questions. Maybe Jack White could answer. First Moon Walk How did we get through the Van Allen Radiation Belts? Why is it that when the astronauts were on the moon there was gravity. On youtube.com you can see them jumping, not "flying." Often we were shown how lack of gravity made the astronauts in their capsule float freely in the air. Why didn't we see this on the first moon walk? Also, if there's no gravity, how could they stay on the moon? Wouldn't they fly off into space? And the rocket too? Thank You, Kathy C There is gravity on the moon, about one-sixth that of earth. The astronots are seen jumping because they were suspended by wires and filmed in slo-mo in a studio on earth. No Apollo missions are likely to have reached the moon. No astronots were exposed to VanAllen radiation because they never left low earth orbit. Jack This, from the guy who once asked how the "astronots" could have carried the Lunar Rover down the steps of the LEM. Too funny. Todd is resorting to fiction again. Officially, the rovers were stowed outside the LMs, just to port of the descent ladder. But there are NO PHOTOS showing this. If I ever said anything about carrying a LM down the ladder, I may have been trying to make a joke...since no believable photos exist of the "stowed" LM. Jack No Jack, it is you who is resorting to fiction. You raised the question, in all seriousness, back on the Della Rosa forum several years back. Somewhere in my files I have a print out of it. I replied and explained it to you and you had nothing to say. And there are PLENTY of photos showing the rover stowed there and being deployed on the moon. Pitiful. OK. I call your bluff. SHOW me the PLENTY OF PHOTOS of rover stowed and being deployed on the MOON. I have examined EVERY photo alleged to be shot on the moon. There is not a single photo among the 5771 such as Todd alleges. Pitiful. Jack All, Jack claims, “There is not a single photo such as Todd alleges.” Jack has absolutely no clue as to what he is talking about. This site … http://www.apolloarchive.com/apollo_gallery.html …contains numerous photos of the LRV being fit checked for stowage on the LEM, loading and stowage photos, and even a closeout photo of the LRV packed in the LM. This site… http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/a15.html …contains numerous video clips of film showing the LRV being deployed. There are no still photos of the deployment as it was a two man job. Todd There are no still photos of the deployment as it was a two man job. This is laughable! It is possible (and was done many times) for one of the actors to PAUSE and take a photo of the OTHER actor doing something. It was a one man job to lower the lanyard to unfold the LRV pallet. It was a one man job to take a photo of the LRV BEFORE AND AFTER LOWERING. The LRV had to be unfolded and assembled, and many parts added. There is no reason for this not being photographed. Both guys had cameras, and could pause at any time to shoot pictures, but did not shoot even one. Also they had a remote camera which could take photos of any action and include both actors in the scene. Todd is WAY OUT OF HIS ELEMENT HERE and ought to tuck his tail and run. Jack Jack, Your ignorant speculation that "both guys had cameras" at the time of the LRV deployment is what is laughable. This note from the Apollo 15 Lunar Surface Journal indicates that both guys did not have cameras at the time of the LRV deployment. Only Irwin had a camera and he could not use it during the deployment because it was a 2 man job. [After he gets the aft lanyard, Jim drapes it over the secondary strut and hops over to the MESA to get the CDR Hasselblad camera. As per LMP-4 and LMP-5, Jim is scheduled to get the CDR camera off the MESA after the Rover deployment but, apparently, wants to try to get some pictures of the deployment. However, as we will hear in a few moments, it is impossible to take pictures while keeping tension on the lanyard and walking backwards, and Jim doesn't get any pictures of the deployment. The CDR camera is stowed at the left rear of the MESA. The LMP camera is in the ETB.] http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/frame.html As for the remote camera, I sent you links showing the LRV deployment. What, did you do, just ignore them? Clearly YOU are the one who is out of his element. Todd Edited March 21, 2011 by Todd W. Vaughan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd W. Vaughan Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) SHOW me the PLENTY OF PHOTOS of rover stowed and being deployed on the MOON. SHOW me the PLENTY OF PHOTOS of rover stowed and being deployed on the MOON. SHOW me the PLENTY OF PHOTOS of rover stowed and being deployed on the MOON. SHOW me the PLENTY OF PHOTOS of rover stowed and being deployed on the MOON. on the MOON Jack, I posted links to photos showing the rover in it's stowed position. Did you look at them? I posted inks to film of the rover being deployed. Did you watch it? Todd Edited March 21, 2011 by Todd W. Vaughan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Notice how Jack tries to change the subject, move the goalposts, gish-gallop, in fact anything except admit he was wrong. He sits there arguing that black is white and fails to see why people realise he is incompetent with respect to Apollo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 SHOW me the PLENTY OF PHOTOS of rover stowed and being deployed on the MOON. SHOW me the PLENTY OF PHOTOS of rover stowed and being deployed on the MOON. SHOW me the PLENTY OF PHOTOS of rover stowed and being deployed on the MOON. SHOW me the PLENTY OF PHOTOS of rover stowed and being deployed on the MOON. on the MOON Jack, I posted links to photos showing the rover in it's stowed position. Did you look at them? I posted inks to film of the rover being deployed. Did you watch it? Todd Houston is in Texas, NOT ON THE MOON. The photos have no proven provenance, and even could have been shot recently, since the text indicates they were discovered recently. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) Notice how Jack tries to change the subject, move the goalposts, gish-gallop, in fact anything except admit he was wrong. He sits there arguing that black is white and fails to see why people realise he is incompetent with respect to Apollo. Burton sidesteps the question and attempts to change the subject. All he has to do is produce a photo of ANY LRV ON ANY APOLLO MISSION WHICH IS ATTACHED IN POSITION ON THE OUTSIDE OF A LUNAR MODULE, AND ANY PHOTO OF ANY ASTRONAUTS ASSEMBLING A ROVER FROM ANY MISSION. TAKING SUCH PHOTOS WOULD HAVE BEEN A GIANT STEP FOR MANKIND. I cannot locate such photos from any of the three missions. I must have missed them. Please give me the file numbers so I can look at them. When I see them, I will admit being mistaken. Jack Edited March 22, 2011 by Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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