The Ultimate USAEC secrets per the JFK hit.

[Gene Kelly]

Paul:

As an aside, and related to our other thread, it is these CIA principals (whom Larry names and provides excellent context) that the ground crews can be connected to ... after studying (in the literal sense) the story, it becomes very clear that the motive and plot originates with Dulles, King, et al.

Gene

[Paul Trejo]

Paul:

As an aside, and related to our other thread, it is these CIA principals (whom Larry names and provides excellent context) that the ground crews can be connected to ... after studying (in the literal sense) the story, it becomes very clear that the motive and plot originates with Dulles, King, et al.

Gene

Let's see if I can meet you at least half-way, Gene.

By attempting to blame Alan Dulles (the highest ranking CIA officer, or formerly so) in the scenario, and a member of the Warren Commission) of the murder of JFK, you believe you have support from an identification of a ground-crew.

This ground-crew, as I take it would consist largely of Bay of Pigs survivors, Cuban Exiles, who had worked closely with the CIA and had been foiled at the Bay of Pigs.

Is this correct?

Are you also including Gerry Patrick Hemming, Interpen members like Loran Hall, Larry Howard and William Seymour?

That is -- what ground-crew members are YOU willing to proffer in a theory?

Furthermore -- if the Bay of Pigs turned out to be the key-motivation, then why didn't the plot FULLY succeed -- that is, why didn't the USA then go after Fidel Castro, who was the ORIGINAL target of this CIA-Cuban Exile conspiracy?

In other words -- why would Alan Dulles back the Cuban Exiles to murder JFK, but then support the Lone Nut theory that Oswald acted alone -- knowing that this depoliticized Oswald and the JFK murder itself? It seems like a mismatch.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Larry Hancock]

Paul, I'm not sure if you moved on to NEXUS - which is far better at giving the high level view as I've noted several times.

People like Angleton and Harvey - and probably Dulles - viewed JFK as a true security risk, their goal was to remove that risk. They incited and manipulated operational

guys to carry out the mission. While the field team - or some of it may have been told that Cuba was in play - just like Hunt told the same thing to the Watergate guys - its unlikely

any of the top people intended that to happen. They simply wanted JFK gone. Afterwards at least some of the team realized they had been set up and an invasion of Cuba was

never in the high level plan.

It was and is SOP for CIA people to use their surrogates as necessary for their own agendas - the surrogates may think they are in sycn but in reality they are simply used as tools.

That is exactly what happened in Dallas. I go into great length in SWHT about how they tried to recover and point to Cuba through their own efforts afterwards but the folks

suppressing the investigation were always a step ahead of them on that too...see chapter 15.

Simple motive, simple operation.....wrapped in a very iterative and confusing follow on effort by Johnson and NSC types to suppress any true investigation of conspiratorial based on where it

might actually lead.....

-- Larry

[Paul Brancato]

I agree with Larry on this one. The plotters eliminated what to them was by far the worse threat - JFK. They used the assassination squad set up for third world operations including Cuba. That does not mean however that they killed our president because he stood in the way of their anti-Castro operations, or that Castro's long term survival disproves this theory. Larry - would you go so far as to say that Operation 40 was the group from which the assassins were drawn?

[Larry Hancock]

Paul, generally I would but with my normal qualifiers...grin. David Morales trained and prepared many of the individuals that we think of as Op 40, they were a subset of the three "AM" groups that he prepared for the BOP operation, with most of them coming out of the AM/MOTS. The AM/MOTS became the core of the Cuban counter intelligence group operated out of JMWAVE both before and after the BOP disaster and as I present in NEXUS, in the months immediately following the BOP both Angleton and Morales were associated with getting info from them - info that Angleton used in a Cuban CI assessment... Its important to remember that Morales functioned in CI associated role for the Cuba project, only later moving over to operations.

What we tend to call OP40 is a very special set of the AM/MOTS who were expected to function as an elimination team after the landing, taking out questionable exile as well as Castro and Communist cadre inside the country. They just never got that opportunity.

Later Sforza ran the AM/MOT unit, he was tight with Morales and there is every reason to think that both men also had their own trusted people within and on the periphery of the group who they could use for vest pocket activities. As I go into in Shadow Warfare, years later Sforza wanted to bring down some of those folks to do assassinations in Chile. Individuals from that same network were used across Latin America by both Morales and Phillips.

Which is a long winded way of saying I suspect Morales had his own list of Cuban exiles, some he had trained, some that Carl Jenkins had trained and almost all of whom had gone into Cuba before or even after the BOP. In addition, there were a handful of non-Agency Anglos who could were associated with those exiles and who could be trusted for a project like the Dallas attack.

[Steven Gaal]

I agree with Larry on this one. The plotters eliminated what to them was by far the worse threat - JFK. They used the assassination squad set up for third world operations including Cuba. That does not mean however that they killed our president because he stood in the way of their anti-Castro operations, or that Castro's long term survival disproves this theory. Larry - would you go so far as to say that Operation 40 was the group from which the assassins were drawn?

Main dread of the British Foreign Office // AMERICAN ISOLATIONISM //

solution communist Cuba // There were many opinions about sending arms to Castro but arms were sent by the British. If the British would threaten JFK not to help ****when British Guiana might go communist when the British were asking for Polaris technology,then why then is it a stretch to think that the BAY OF PIGS OPERATION WAS sabotaged on purpose for British interests ??

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If you don't know what the Chatham House is, you are not alone. Like the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) in the U.S., the Chatham House, formerly known as the Royal Institute of International Affairs (RIIA), makes an effort to be out of the public's eye. Only recently, thanks to the Internet and its non-controlled sources of information, people are beginning to know what these institutions do and what are their ultimate goals. And both of them were twins separated at birth.

The new intelligence agency created by Col. Edward Mandell House, which the conspirators disingenuously called The Inquiry[3] served the international bankers so well that they decided to make it permanent. A few days after the end of the conference, a group of conspirators from the U.S. and Britain Round Table Groups met at the Hotel Majestic, where the British delegation was staying, to talk about how to continue their intelligence and espionage experiment. To this effect, they planned the creation of a permanent espionage agency, with branches in London and New York, to continue serving their interests. As usual, they used an innocuous, disinforming name, the Anglo-American Institute of International Affairs, as a cover to hide its real espionage and intelligence activities.

Just a few months later, however, the American branch of the conspirators decided to go independent, and created their own espionage agency. It was named the Council on Foreign Relations, and Colonel House was one of the founding fathers, together with Elihu Root. The initial group of secret agents was augmented with the inclusion of promising new members anxious to get into the espionage business. Prominent among them were Herbert H. Lehman, W. Averell Harriman, and John Foster Dulles. The British conspirators changed the name of their own intelligence agency to Royal Institute of International Affairs, later changed to Chatham House. /// http://www.newswithviews.com/Gonzalez/servando102.htm //3. See, Servando Gonzalez, "The National Security Agency: Spying for the Rockies," NewsWithViews, servando101.htm

====================================================

http://www.intelinet.org/sg_site/articles/sg_chronology_of_treason.html

Behind every act of treason to the American people there is always one or more members of the Council on Foreign Relations. Enumerating all these acts of treason would make this list too long, but just a minor cut to the fruit will reveal its rotten entrails.

• (1891). Cecil Rhodes establishes a secret society called the Circle of Initiates. Like most secret organizations, it had one individual or a very small group at the center.

• (1909). Lord Milner, an agent of the Rothschilds, and the principle trustee of the Cecil Rhodes fortune, creates an outer circle to the Circle of Initiates. He names it the Association of Helpers, also called the Round Table Group.

• (1913). President Woodrow Wilson (CFR), and his advisor, “Colonel” Edward Mandell House (CFR), illegally create the Federal Reserve Bank and the Internal Revenue Service. Both organizations are private corporations under the guise of U.S. Government institutions.

• (1919). The Round Table is later transformed by “Colonel” Edward Mandell House, John Maynard Keynes, Arnold Toynbee, John Foster Dulles and others into a publicly acknowledged, formal council know as the Institute of International Affairs.

• (1919). President Wilson (CFR), “Colonel” House” (CFR), and a group of Wall Street bankers, al of them CFR members, create the League of Nations, as a first step for he establishment of a world government. The U.S. Senate refuseses to approve the League, and it crumbles.

• (1921). The conspirators decide to break down the Institute of International Affairs into an American branch, the Council on Foreign Relations, and a British branch, the Royal Institute for International Affairs.

• (1922). The Council on Foreign Relations begins the publication of its official organ, the magazine Foreign Affairs. A few years after, the magazine becomes a sort of crystal ball, forecasting the direction where the U.S., and the world, is heading to.

• (1924). A panic in the Wall Street stock market, followed by a full crash, causes a severe economic crisis, later known as “The Great Depression”. The crisis affects first the United States, and, soon after, Latin America and the whole industrialized world. Some people suspected that the crisis was artificially created by the bankers who own the Federal Reserve Bank.

• (1941). President Franklin D. Roosevelt (CFR), provokes and facilitates the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor as a pretext to push the American people into war in Europe.

• (1942-1945). While American soldiers are dying in Europe fighting Nazi Germany, Prescott Bush (CFR), Henry Ford (CFR), Nelson Rockefeller (CFR), and Allen Dulles (CFR), keep cutting business deals with German corporations, helping that way the Nazi war machine.

• (1945). The U.S. delegation to the San Francisco Conference, where the creation of the United Nations Organization is discussed, includes 47 CFR members, among them Adlai Stevenson, John Foster Dulles, Nelson Rockefeller, and Alger Hiss. The Charter of the U.N.O. they approved, had been previously written at the Harold Pratt House in Manhattan, headquarters of the Council on Foreign Relations.

• (1945). Following advice from Secretary of State Edward Stettinius (CFR), Secretary of War Henry Stimson (CFR), and General George Marshall (CFR), President Truman (not a CFR member) orders dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Nagasaki, where no military installation was located, was the site of the largest Christian community in Japan.

• (1945). At the end of the war, the Rockefellers (CFR), with the help of their agent Allen Dulles (CFR), allow many Nazi officers (Eichmann, Memgele, Priebke, Kutschmann, etc.) to escape to America via Argentina; recruits ex-Nazi officers to work for the CIA; and, through Operation Paperclip, bring Nazi scientists to America.

• (1946). John D. Rockefeller, Jr. (CFR), donates a piece of land in Manhattan, appraised in $8.5 million dollars, for the construction of the UN building.

• (1947). Writing under the pseudonym “X”, George Kennan (CFR) publishes an article in Foreign Affairs, explaining his theory of “containment.” It means just containing the expansion of Soviet Communism, not fighting to win it. Immediately, President Truman makes Containment the core of his Truman Doctrine.

• (1947) President Truman creates the Central Intelligence Agency.

• (1948). George Marshall (CFR) and Dean Acheson (CFR) press President Truman to stop providing military supplies to Chiang Kai-shek, thus allowing for the communist takeover of China.

• (1949). Headed by Frank Wisner (CFR), Allen Dulles (CFR), and Richard Helms (CFR), the CIA begins Operation Mockinbird. Its goal is to recruit under the false flag of fighting communism American media news organizations and journalists as agents to disseminate disinformation. Some years lateter, the CIA admits having recruited more than 400 influential journalists and at least 25 organizations of the U.S. mainstream media.

• (1950). Testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on February 17, James Warburg (CFR), son of CFR founder Paul Warburg, prophesies: “We shall have world government whether or not you like it — by conquest or consent.”

• (1950) Following the Containment doctrine, Dean Acheson (CFR) and Dean Rusk (CFR) arrange the no-win undeclared war in Korea and the removal of Douglas General McArthur. Gen. McArthur (not a CFR member), had a plan to win the war.

• (1950) Senator Joseph McCarthy exposes the treasonous activities of State Department officials Alger Hiss (CFR), and Owen Lattimore (CFR), accusing them of being Communists. He also accuses General George Marshall (CFR) of treason. President Eisenhower (CFR), Secretary of State Dean Acheson (CFR), and journalist Edward Murrow (CFR), join forces in defending the accused and vilifying McCarthy.

• (1953). Soviet Prime Minister Nikita Khrushchev, declares his doctrine of peaceful coexistence, by which the fight between capitalism and communism must continue in the field of ideas but not in the military one. The fact causes consternation among the ranks of the American military-industrial complex and Wall Street bankers.

• (1956). J. Edgar Hoover, Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI), receives hundreds of letters from concerned citizens and members of Congress, accusing the Council on Foreign Relations of treason and promoting communism through its agents infiltrated in the U.S. government. Hoover orders to begin an investigation. Soon after, President Eisenhower (CFR), dictates an order prohibiting the FBI to investigate federal government employees.

• (1957). Journalist Herbert Matthews (CFR), interviews Fidel Castro in Cuba’s Sierra Maestra Mountains. In the interview, published in the New York Times, Matthews describes Castro as a Cuban Robin Hood and tropical Simon Bolívar, and a lover of democracy and justice. The New York Times’ Chairman of the Board was Arthur Hay Sulzberger (CFR), and the publisher Orvil Dryfoos (CFR).

• (1958). John Foster Dulles (CFR) and Allen Dulles (CFR), of President Eisenhower’s (CFR) administration, betray Cuba’s President by confiscating arms he had bough and paid to fight Castro’s insurgency. The fact demoralizes the Cuban Army and allows for Castro grabbing power in Cuba.

• (1958). While State Department official William Wieland (a protégé of CFR founder Sumner Welles), undermines President Batista’s government. The CIA’s chief of station in Havana, and the American consul in Santiago de Cuba, provide Castro with plenty of money as well as weapons and ammo smuggled from the U.S. military base in Guantanamo.

• (1958). Following the advice of Secretary of State John Foster Dulles (CFR), and his brother, CIA director Allen Dulles (CFR), President Eisenhower (CFR) sends William Pawley (a close friend of Allen Dulles) to Havana. Pawley informs Batista that the U.S. no longer support him, and suggests him to surrender power and leave the country.

• (1959). President Batista leaves Cuba on January 1st, and soon after Castro takes power over the island. Breaking with a long tradition, the U.S. is the first country to recognize the new government.

• (1959). Castro makes his first official visit to the U.S. During his visit, he gives a speech at the Harold Pratt House, headquarters of the Council on Foreign Relations. The event passes unreported by the American mainstream press.

• (1960). To the conspirators’ surprise, millionaire Joseph P. Kennedy, with the help of his friends in the Irish Mafia, buy thousands of votes in Chicago and gets his son John F. Kennedy (not a CFR member) elected President of the United States.

• (1960). In his farewell speech, President Eisenhower alerts the nation about the existence of a military-industrial complex in the United States.

• (1960). On the 50th anniversary of the U.N.O., Castro travels to New York, where he gives a long speech. Later he is the honor guest of a reception at the Rockefellers mansion in Manhattan. To avoid a confrontation with people who protest in front of the mansion, the place of the event is changed to the Harold Pratt House, headquarters of the CFR. There, Castro has a long and friendly private exchange with David Rockefeller (CFR) and other Wall Street bankers.

• (1960). The French freighter La Coubre, loaded with arms, ammo and explosives, explodes in Havana’s harbor. The mysterious explosion kills several people. Next day Castro goes on TV and accuses the U.S., and specifically the CIA, of terrorism. Then, he dictates some antiterrorist measures, including the elimination of habeas corpus and other rights guaranteed by the Cuban Constitution. He also orders to create the Ministry of State Security, and Committees for the Defense of the Revolution – a national red of informers in every city block.

• (1961). Following the advice of McGeorge Bundy (CFR), Adlai Stevenson (CFR), and John McCloy (CFR), President Kennedy orders a change in the invasion’s landing point. On April 4, CIA’s Richard Bissell (CFR), outlines an alternative plan for the invasion, with the Bay of Pigs instead of Trinidad as the landing place.

• (1961). On April 16, McGeorge Bundy (CFR), Dean Rusk (CFR), and Adlai Stevenson (CFR), persuade President Kennedy to cancel the rest of the planned air strikes previous to the invasion. As a result, Castro’s fighter planes shoot down the invaders’ planes and sink their ships, thus guaranteeing that the Bay of Pigs invasion fails. The failure of the Bay of Pigs invasion consolidates the Cuban tyrant in power.

• (1961). As a result of the Bay of Pigs debacle, President Kennedy fires CIA director Allen Dulles (CFR), and appoints John MacCone (CFR) as CIA Director. Kennedy tells some close friends he wants to “splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the wind.”

• (1962). In his book The Fourth Floor, former U.S. Ambassador to Cuba Earl T. Smith (not a CFR member), exposes how a group of State Department officers, particularly William Wieland and Roy Rubbotton, conspired to bring Castro to power in Cuba.

========

audio

British Prime Minister Douglas-Home Defends Trade with Cuba

Edited June 16, 2014 by Steven Gaal

[Paul Brancato]

Steven - where are you going with this? In simple terms, are you saying that the CFR is a backer of Communist regimes? If so, for what purpose?

[Steven Gaal]

Main dread of the British Foreign Office // AMERICAN ISOLATIONISM

========================

NOW that became past tense... ELM ST HAPPENS...CIA takes over French Intell SE Asia heroin networks, Anti-Castro Cubans by 1966 became heroin distributors, Anti-Castro Cubans became a political tool of militant (non-isolationist) Republican Party, drug war creating justification for higher policing/monitoring controls .....WORKED OUT VERY GOOD FOR ELITES FOR A TIME ...

but that faded ....now muslim boogeyman ...FALSE FLAG 911......NATO expands starting NWO

FROM POST # 49 ABOVE

• (1950). Testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on February 17, James Warburg (CFR), son of CFR founder Paul Warburg, prophesies: “We shall have world government whether or not you like it — by conquest or consent.”

Edited June 17, 2014 by Steven Gaal

[Paul Trejo]

Paul, I'm not sure if you moved on to NEXUS - which is far better at giving the high level view as I've noted several times.

People like Angleton and Harvey - and probably Dulles - viewed JFK as a true security risk, their goal was to remove that risk. They incited and manipulated operational guys to carry out the mission. While the field team - or some of it may have been told that Cuba was in play - just like Hunt told the same thing to the Watergate guys - its unlikely any of the top people intended that to happen. They simply wanted JFK gone. Afterwards at least some of the team realized they had been set up and an invasion of Cuba was never in the high level plan.

It was and is SOP for CIA people to use their surrogates as necessary for their own agendas - the surrogates may think they are in sycn but in reality they are simply used as tools. That is exactly what happened in Dallas. I go into great length in SWHT about how they tried to recover and point to Cuba through their own efforts afterwards but the folks suppressing the investigation were always a step ahead of them on that too...see chapter 15.

Simple motive, simple operation...wrapped in a very iterative and confusing follow on effort by Johnson and NSC types to suppress any true investigation of conspiratorial based on where it

might actually lead...

-- Larry

Larry, I've not yet moved on to NEXUS. Also, I'm not yet convinced that a focus on the high-level view is warranted yet.

For example, you're saying in this post (and Paul B. and Gene seem to agree with you) that CIA Agents James Jesus Angleton and William Harvey -- and probably Allen Dulles -- saw JFK as a genuine USA Security Risk.

It would have been their duty, then, to remove that risk. Y'all are therefore blaming the official CIA for the murder of JFK. There seems to be no other conclusion to your reasoning.

In your view, the ground-crew were (probably) led to believe that "Cuba was in play." This actually fits the scenario of Lee Harvey Oswald -- his focus was Cuba for the entire summer of 1963, as he pretended to be an officer of the FPCC in New Orleans -- a fake FPCC chapter where he was the only member.

With the help of CIA gophers Ed Butler (INCA) and Carlos Bringuier (DRE) we observe that Guy Banister (ex-FBI fanatic) and David Ferrie (mercenary fanatic) framed Lee Harvey Oswald as a Communist -- mainly by convincing Oswald that "Cuba was in play." Butler and Bringuier also believed that "Cuba was in play," most likely.

It is difficult to know whether Guy Banister and David Ferrie truly knew about the JFK assassination, however, an average guy like Ron Lewis (FLASHBACK, 1993) says that a broken Lee Harvey Oswald confided to Ron after Lee's failed Mexico City trip that Banister and Ferrie told Lee about the upcoming JFK assassination.

Yet you haven't connected all the dots, Larry. You're concluding that the CIA wanted JFK gone -- and they lied to (most of) their ground-crew about the plans. In your opinion, the reason that Cuba was never invaded was because the CIA never truly included Cuba in their high-level plans -- so the ground-crew was lied to -- betrayed -- by the CIA plotters.

It's plausible, Larry -- I admit that. Yet it's incomplete. It still reaches and it still presumes quite a lot. Your theory seems to imply that the CIA was also supported by the Joint Chiefs, the NSC, the FBI and LBJ. This is too broad a brush, IMHO, which answers everything with speculation.

Your argument must be (much like Steven's) that the CIA would never admit the Truth, or write it down, so we are left to speculate. Given that, we can speculate more safely if we use a broad brush and paint everybody from David Morales on up to the NSC as JFK murder plotters.

Sorry -- I need more evidence. There is a mismatch between the COMMUNIST Lee Harvey Oswald of the plotters and the LONE NUT Lee Harvey Oswald of the cover-up. This mismatch has not been satisfactorily explained.

Your proposed solution is promising -- that the CIA used the COMMUNIST Lee Harvey Oswald to motivate the ground-crew, when actually they had always planned to cover-up their plot using the LONE NUT theory, and betray the ground-crew (yet again, for the second time after the Bay of Pigs).

Perhaps. I can't deny that your theory is plausible. Yet it still asks for a leap of faith.

Are we to believe that the CIA plotters had such foresight that they conceived of fooling the ground-crew with a COMMUNIST framing of Lee Harvey Oswald, while all the while plotting to use a LONE NUT theory of Oswald to end the tragedy?

If so, then we must also believe that J. Edgar Hoover was in on the plot from the very start, since the LONE NUT theory was his idea on 11/22/1963. Yet here again we are faced with Gene's sober objection -- how can so many hundreds of plotters keep a secret so perfectly for 50 years? No -- it's too facile.

I can agree that General Lansdale is guilty based on Fletcher Prouty's proofs and by photographs at Dealey Plaza. I can agree that David Morales, Frank Sturgis and Gerry Patrick Hemming are guilty, based on their own, separate confessions.

That's the truly hard evidence -- we have one CIA-connected General (Lansdale) and one CIA Agent (David Morales), and two fanatical mercenaries (Sturgis and Hemming). That's what we actually have so far -- as far as I can see.

That doesn't prove Allen Dulles was guilty; not by a long shot.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 20, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

...Which is a long winded way of saying I suspect Morales had his own list of Cuban exiles, some he had trained, some that Carl Jenkins had trained and almost all of whom had gone into Cuba before or even after the BOP. In addition, there were a handful of non-Agency Anglos who were associated with those exiles and who could be trusted for a project like the Dallas attack.

Speaking of fanatic mercenaries who had gone into Cuba before and after the Bay of Pigs, we can name Larry Howard and Loran Hall.

As for "non-Agency Anglos who were associated with those exiles" we can name Gerry Patrick Hemming, who confessed to A.J. Weberman that he paid off Lee Harvey Oswald to bring his rifle to the TSBD building on 11/22/1963. Hemming was also an on-and-off pal with Larry Howard and Loran Hall.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Steven Gaal]

COMMIE ,LHO ???????

Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions - #61

(1/1)

Rob Caprio:
As we saw in the 56th installment of this series the claim was made that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) did NOT revoke his citizenship (and on the surface this is true, but the correct statement is he was NOT allowed to). Well, if that is true then we have some very odd things going on in the twenty six volumes.

Note: While this topic is NOT as "sexy" as some others, it is an important one in showing how the groundwork was laid for LHO even back in 1959. What was going to be his role IF JFK was NOT killed? Who knows, but this topic, and others, show he was going to be used for something eventually IMO.

********************************************************************

We have already looked at the testimony of Frances Knight (Passport Chairperson) regarding this issue, but the Warren Commission (WC) also called Abram Chayes who was a legal advisor to the State Department. Here is an exchange on this topic (again, keep in mind, the issue of a passport being issued is very relevant as IF LHO did NOT get issued one he could NOT shoot JFK (if you believe the WC’s conclusion)).

Representative Ford. Would you in the June determination have had the files from the Department of State which showed that on October 31 Oswald walked into the American Embassy.

Mr. Chayes. Oh, yes.

Representative Ford. And said "I, Lee Harvey Oswald, do hereby request that my present citizenship in the United States of America be revoked."

Mr. Chayes. Oh, yes; the entire file.

Representative Ford. And would it also have had the one of November 3d where he said "I, Lee Harvey Oswald, do hereby request that my present United States citizenship be revoked"?

Mr. Chayes. Yes; it would have had all of that.

Representative Ford. It would have had all of that?

Mr. Chayes. Yes.

Representative Ford. And it would have had the----

Mr. Chayes. But it would also have had the determination that he had to expatriate himself and that he was an American citizen. I, myself, doubt that an abortive attempt at expatriation would, certainly without more, warrant the denial of a passport to a person who was in fact a citizen.

An “abortive attempt” he says? Does this sound like an abortive attempt? Go to CE-920 and read this:

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In this document you will see it says LHO requested that his US citizenship be REVOKED and came to the consulate office of the US Embassy to SIGN THE FORMAL PAPERS, but was REFUSED by the Embassy. This clearly shows LHO did NOT “expatriate” himself ONLY because the US government wouldn’t allow him to!

He even is writing a PROTEST to the US government and mentions that he has “an application, requesting that I be considered for citizenship in the Soviet Union, is now pending before the Supreme Soviet of the U.S.S.R.” Does that sound like someone who does NOT want to get rid of their US citizenship and expatriate himself? It sure does to me. OR, more to the point, he is an INTELLIGENCE operative running a scam for the Soviet listeners.

If we go to CE-919 and read that it seems simple to do.

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It says, “As you were informed at the time of your visit to the Embassy on October 31, 1959, it is a principal of the American Government that the right of expatriation is a natural AND INHERENT RIGHT of any person and that the manner prescribed by law for renunciation of American citizenship is the execution of an oath before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in the established form.” (emphasis added)

So, it seems it only took an oath at the Embassy before a diplomatic or consular officer to renounce one’s citizenship, thus, the question has to be asked, why was LHO trying to fill out paperwork to do this? He even says in his letter that he was refused his LEGAL RIGHT. Why? Who did NOT want LHO to renounce his citizenship? Or was he play acting again? Either scenario shows there were bigger plans for LHO even then and his return to the US was necessary.

What did Mr. Chayes mean by this comment?

Mr. Dulles. Is it not correct though that when you were trying to get the visa for Mrs. Oswald, you made a very strong case that his continued residence in the Soviet Union was harmful to the foreign policy of the United States, or words to that effect?

Mr. Chayes. Well, we were very anxious to get him back and I think that is right. In a sense we had him on our hands then. We were in discussion with him. He was in the Embassy and he was very directly our responsibility, so that anything that he did or that went wrong during that period, he was under our protection and we were necessarily involved.

If he went back as a tourist and got into some trouble of some kind or another, we would then have the choice I think to get involved, and we might or might not. The situation it seems to me is different when a fellow is already in trouble and you have taken steps to put the U.S. Embassy in the picture. Then you have a special responsibility if anything goes off the track and you want to take whatever steps you can to shorten the time in which you are bearing that special responsibility.

Get him back from what? Was he saying they were glad to have him back from Russia? IF so, why? He was a disaffected LONER supposedly! Also note how his staying in the USSR was "harmful to diplomatic relations" between our countries. The SAME thing would be said about looking into a CONSPIRACY by LBJ's aide to Henry Wade! It seems this was the code term then as "National Security" is now.

I think that is what he saying because this was the NEXT question.

Representative Ford. I think, Mr. Chayes, however, you are saying or you are inferring that it was a clear-cut decision back when it was determined that he had not given up his United States citizenship.

Mr. Chayes. It was in July of 1961, when his passport was renewed. We couldn't have had a passport renewal if there weren't such a determination, and in fact there was such a determination.

Representative Ford. There was such a determination?

Mr. Chayes. Yes, sir.

Of course he had NOT given up his US citizenship since it was just shown he was NOT ALLOWED TO! This kept the door open for his return to the US. Why would the US want a “sociopath” (the WC’s word) back in the US and then NOT debrief him supposedly?

Again, all of this leads one to believe LHO was on a mission and not really trying to defect as claimed. ONLY the CIA was running a mission like this, and this shows us LHO was anything but a “loner” as claimed by the WC.

====================================

http://whokilledjfk.net/lho.htm

We know that the State Department Loaned him the money for the return trip back to the United States.

I also have on video tape that the CIA supplied their Assets with Minox Cameras.

A Minox Camera was found among Oswald's possessions after his arrest. (See Spy Stuff Page)

WHY would a Repatriated Defector continue to wear his Marine Corps Ring and his Marine Corps I D Bracelet? Oswald was wearing them when he was arrested.

I can understand a U S Marine Corps Private contracting a Venarial Disease while stationed at a Top Secret U-2 Base.

What I can NOT understand is that it was contracted "In The Line of Duty"???

HOW could a Defector work on Highly Classified material?? (below) (DURING THE MISSLE CRISES)

Oct. of '62 was the Missle crises. WHAT was Oswald,s Job? see below

Robert Walker

Aug 13 2007, 01:31 AM

Post #1

Joined: 20-June 07
Member No.: 5721

As you can tell from my bio, I work at Southern Methodist University ("SMU"). When I moved to Dallas in 1999 I got a job at SMU's Center for Media & Instructional Technology ("CMIT"). The CMIT media librarian at the time (introduced to me as "Judy Childs") was in fact Judy Chiles, wife of Bill Chiles, part owner of Jaggars Chiles Stovall.

Well, you know, when I found that out I just went through the roof! So at one of our Chritmas parties, I approached Bill (who is a sweet guy) and I asked him point blank about Lee Harvey Oswald working for his company.

Bill stated that Oswald was generally a crappy employee, that we wore thick black military-type boots, was surly, and to the concern of Bill at least, walked around speaking in Russian.

Since they did some work for the US Government, Bill was concerned about this guy enough to call the FBI. Bill told the FBI that this guy named Oswald was clunking around in military boots, speaking in Russian and making a nuisance of himself. Bill said the FBI put him on hold, and then came back with (and I am paraphrasing here) "...yeah, we know about Oswald, he's okay."

For what it's worth.

Rob

[Steven Gaal]

Speaking of fanatic mercenaries who had gone into Cuba before and after the Bay of Pigs, we can name Larry Howard and Loran Hall.

As for "non-Agency Anglos who were associated with those exiles" we can name Gerry Patrick Hemming, who confessed to A.J. Weberman that he paid off Lee Harvey Oswald to bring his rifle to the TSBD building on 11/22/1963. Hemming was also an on-and-off pal with Larry Howard and Loran Hall.

Best regards,
--Paul Trejo

++++++++++++++++++++++++++
GEE LORAN HALL = JBS (GAAL)
(4) Finally, Larry, you say that DPD politics would show up in investigations. Normally that would be true -- but Dallas could be a major exception in the USA in 1963. William Turner describes the normal DPD officer in 1963 as radically right-wing. Gerry Patrick Hemming agreed when he said that elements in the DPD would "assassinate at a whisper." // Paul Trejo

==================================================

The JBS which rails against elites was itself set up by elites.

===================

Carroll Quigley and colleagues of like sympathy with the Rhodes agenda have widely propagated the belief that the American branch of the Round Table organization is exclusively the liberal Eastern Establishment. However, The Belmont Brotherhood revealed that the Anglo-American Establishment, which represents the interests of the aforesaid corporations, also launched the ultra-conservative movement in the United States, the John Birch Society being a pioneer of the extreme right of this dialectical process.

Produced in 1977 by a group of former high-ranking JBS members, "The Belmont Brotherhood" refers to the National Council at Belmont, Massachusetts where JBS national headquarters were originally located. Various sources cited therein document that the early members of the John Birch Society were also members of the liberal Establishment they pretended to oppose, and represented in great measure the corporate interests of America, which are advanced by the oaths of loyalty to one another in a secret brotherhood .

=====================================================

THE BELMONT BROTHERHOOD

see http://watch.pair.com/belmont.html

++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Many in the DPD were useful idiots. Many have speculated as to what percentage of DPD were JBS ,most speculative estimates put 10 % at the low end figure.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Steven Gaal

[Steven Gaal]

That doesn't prove Allen Dulles was guilty; not by a long shot.

Best regards,
--Paul Trejo
=============================================================

^{SHELLY IN NEW ORLEANS}

^{http://oswaldinthedoorway.blogspot.com/2014/06/uh-oh.html}

^{==============}

^{Now lets see: Bush family ,William Paley (CBS), and Dimitri Von Mohrenschildt (brother of George de Mohrenschildt ) all close to both DULLES and George De Mohrenschildt. Dulles joins board of Nationwide Insurance were Ruth Paine's father, William Avery Hyde works. Dulles former TOP aide is brother of the Mayor of Dallas. Dulles' pal JJA and Dulles himself with Dulles' Mistress hob nobs with the head lawyer of Treasury Dept (Secret Service). Dulles operative Casey in law firm with previous head lawyer of Treasury Dept. (Secret Service). Dulles mistress Mary Bancroft was a close personal friend of Michael Paine’s mother Ruth Forbes Paine Young.}

^{DULLES NOT PART OF JFK HIT ......REALLY ???????????????????????}

^{***************************}

• ^{Peter Dale Scott theorized in Deep Politics and the Death of JFK that the stock transactions of the major stockholders of LTV (Harold Byrd (owner TSBD), Troy Post (financier) and James Ling (businessman) engineer) were made with foreknowledge of the JFK assassination.}
• ^{Troy Post was co-owner of Coconut micro island in Hawaii with California oil man Edwin Pauley.}
• ^{JFK researcher Bruce Adamson acquired the 6 volume set of personal phone books George De Mohrenschildt and noted that De Mohrenschildt had listed Edwin Pauleys name an unusual 4 times. ( To note to avoid confusion ,per Adamson ,George de Mohrenschildt also worked for CBS head William S. Paley after call to Paley's private secretary) The phone books also listed GHWB and also GHWB's intimate nickname "POPPY" ,which few knew. In the appendix of the Secret War Against the Jews book George de Mohrenschildt had the post WWII office number of Allen Dulles at RCA. William Paley (CBS) and Allen Dulles were very,very close friends (see letters Paley - Dulles, Adamson). Prescott Bush (father of GHWB, was a CBS trustee for 30 years (from the radio days to the TV days)) also was a friend of Allen Dulles from the 1930s.}
• ^{Edwin Pauley ,as was William Casey, were private post WWII operatives of Allen Dulles per Secret War Against the Jews book. Casey and Pauley were , per the Gold Warriors book , were top operatives (with Edwin Lasndale) in the ultra secret post WWII Asian-Japanese stolen gold project that help fund post WWII anti-communist CIA operations. Edwin Lasndale was considered by Fetcher Prouty to be a Allen Dulles operative inside the Air Force.}
• ^{Dimitri Von Mohrenschildt (brother of George de Mohrenschildt ) wrote a book in the 1950s with the nephew of Allen Dulles.}
• ^{In 63 William Casey worked with Prescott Bush Jr. (brother GHWB) in a think tank advocating a stronger CIA and increased CIA covert operations.}
• ^{=====================########================================#######========================}
• ^{The Paines' Participation in the Minox Camera Charade}

  ^{by Carol Hewett, Esq.}

  ^{Almost every JFK assassination researcher is aware that the Dallas police found, and inventoried, a tiny hi-tech Minox camera amongst Oswald's personal effects when Ruth and Michael Paine's home was searched and that this camera later was omitted from an inventory list once the FBI took over the investigation. What is not generally known is the Paines' role in this camera charade.}

  ^{There were 3 separate inventory lists itemizing the evidence from the Paine household:}

  1. ^{a Dallas police List,}
  3. ^{a joint Dallas police and FBI list, and}
  5. ^{the FBI Headquarters list.}
  ^{This camera disappears from List #3. There were four separate sets of photographs of the items removed from the Paine household:}
  1. ^{the Dallas Police Crime Lab revealing the camera,}
  3. ^{the joint Dallas police and FBI photos which should have shown the camera,}
  5. ^{the altered joint set of photos which omitted the camera, and}
  7. ^{the supplement set to #3 which still failed to show the Minox camera.}
  ^{The FBI's early efforts to conceal the existence of the Minox camera did not stay secret for long, as word leaked out amongst news reporters that the FBI had altered its inventory list and that the FBI had pressured the Dallas police to alter its inventory. The FBI was now squarely in the middle of an evidence-tampering dilemma before the Warren Commission investigation was barely underway. One solution would be to produce the original camera, or any Minox camera for that matter, in order to resolve the discrepancy. This is precisely what the FBI did. Many of the documents setting forth the method by which the Minox camera "reappeared" were not released to the public until 1984 and are amongst the Paine files.}

  ^{We now know that the controversy over the Minox camera reached the highest levels of the FBI. Eventfully Hoover demanded that Dallas SAC Gordon Shanklin contact the Dallas Police, Marina Oswald and Ruth Paine to get to the bottom of the problem. Late in January 1964, Dallas FBI Agent Bardwell Odum contacted the Paines. Mr. Paine advised Odum that he still had his Minox camera in a coffee can in his garage, that it had been dropped in salt water a few years ago and that he had repaired the water damage by cleaning the camera with kerosene. According to Paine, the camera seemed to be in good working order but "someone" had bent the shutter and "now" it was not working. Paine recollected that when the law enforcement officers first searched his home, he gave them a drawer of his photographic equipment with everything in it except for the Minox camera. Paine went on to say that he had mentioned to the officers that the Minox camera was in the garage but they did not seem interested in it. This was an obvious lie for the police had in fact taken a Minox camera into custody. Paine also claimed that the Minox light meter seized that weekend belonged to him.}

  ^{Did the Paines have a prior relationship with Agent Odum that would allow the three of them to participate in a ruse? Mr. Paine told the Warren Commission that he knew "Bob" Odum, casually referring to Bardwell Odum's nickname of "Bob". Odum, incidentally, apparently lived in Irving in 1963 because Irving barbershop owner, Clifton Shasteen, told the Warren Commission that he not only cut Oswald's hair but that he also cut FBI Agent Bardwell Odum's hair. Following her Warren Commission testimony, Ruth Paine wrote the Commission seeking return of various items which belonged to her and her husband; her lists mentions only the Minox light meter and light meter case, not a Minox camera. In all the ensuing correspondence, no mention of the Minox camera is made by the Paines, Rankin or Hoover --- once again suggesting collusion.}

  ^{The camera as inventoried by the Dallas police, and later by Odum, contained exposed film. In 1977 author Alan J. Weberman obtained copies of these developed photos. 29 photos were produced, some of which depicted a freighter in a harbor and a military installation apparently situated in Central America. One of the military photos shows a blond American which the HSCA must have thought was CIA operative Gerry Patrick Hemming inasmuch as the HSCA juxtaposed two other photos of Hemming next to it for comparison. Other photographs were of Rome, including the Piaza of St. Peter and the Roman Coliseum. Still another photo in the series consists of a pet cat reclining on a checkered tiled floor.}

  ^{In the 1970's Michael Paine denied having taken such photos despite the fact that he had owned the Minox camera. In 1994, Paine would be questioned again about these matters for the Frontline TV production. This time Paine stated that the camera which was returned to him had been stolen about 5 years after the assassination along with all of the photographs from that era Is he referring to the 29 photos? Why would they have been returned if they were not his in the first place? A theft could not have occurred 5 years after 1963 because the camera marked by Odum was shown to Marina by the HSCA in 1978. In fact Marina was shown two Minox cameras! The source of the second one remains a mystery.}

  ^{Neither one of the Paines were ever questioned under oath about the camera or the photos. The pictures of Rome could have been taken by Michael during his 1955 travels to Europe for his passport application indicated that he planned to go to Italy. Oswald also indicated on his second passport application of June 1963 that he intended to travel to Italy but there is yet no indication that he actually traveled to Italy at any time. As for the cat, the Paines did in fact own a cat while living in Irving which they gave away to the family of E.E. Bruner because of their little girl's allergies. There exists an independent photo of June Oswald as a toddler playing with a white kitten. So who owned the black and white cat, the Paines or the Oswalds?}

  ^{Both of the Paines and Bardwell Odum are still alive. They must be relieved of any secrecy oaths and forced to give sworn testimony about this camera. Such testimony may help resolve whether either of the Paines or Lee Harvey Oswald worked in the capacity of an intelligence asset and also whether Michael and Lee worked together.}

• ^{=====================================}

  ^{All in the Family (The Paines)}

  ^{by Barbara LaMonica}

  ^{Ruth Paine's father, William Avery Hyde, undertook a Department of State/AID assignment to Peru within weeks of the publication of the Warren Report. His first tour of duty out of the country would last almost three years from October 1964 to August 1967. Mr. Hyde's official status was that of a contract employee for CLUSA, the Cooperative League of the USA. His job title was that of Regional Insurance Advisor for Latin America. Indeed, Mr. Hyde who for many years was an insurance executive with Nationwide Insurance Company, was the only individual at the time who was accredited to the Latin America Division of the U.S. Agency for International Development for handling insurance problems. Thus he should be considered an important asset of the U.S. government's economic policies in Latin America during that time period insofar as the promotion of capitalism and modern day business techniques was concerned.}

  ^{Hyde's tour of duty was not limited to Peru. He provided technical assistance to the launching of insurance cooperatives in Bolivia, Ecuador and Panama. His efforts were directed towards all types of coverage, including life, casualty, automobile, and mortgage insurance and brought him into contact with Latin American credit unions, banks and the housing industry. Furthermore, he urged the State Department to consider the development of a Central American Common Market modeled after the European Common Market. Hyde's experience with insurance cooperatives led him to serve as a consultant to another CLUSAAID cooperative project in Peru called the Artisan Handicraft Project. Inasmuch as Peru's major economic activity consisted of the folk arts, the U.S. government sought to upgrade the cottage industries and to increase the market for Peru's export of handicrafts through modern and large scale foreign retailers such as Sears and Roebuck. This in turn would presumably lead to a better standard of living for workers via higher wages and the development of an accompanying infrastructure.}

  ^{Ruth's father contributed to the "end-of-tour" report on the Artisan Handicraft Project as it was drawing to a close. This report, which was routed to both the State Dept. and the CIA, was found by assassination researchers at the AID library in D.C. Of special interest to the State Department was Hyde's commentary on problems, both politically and culturally, which AID technical advisors could expect to encounter when working in Latin America. These personal remarks consist of only 3 pages but the content is reminiscent of the report which Oswald made about his observations of life in Russia. In fact, a comparison of the two documents reveals Oswald to be the better writer and more thorough observer (notwithstanding the snide remarks about Oswald's writing and thinking abilities made by Norman Mailer in Oswald's Tale).}

  ^{From this, we can conclude that William Avery Hyde could have been deemed an important source of information for the Domestic Contacts Division of the CIA which collected data of a sociological and economic nature for its in-house encyclopedias on foreign nations. It is not difficult to imagine that George DeMorhenschild and Lee Harvey Oswald may have served the same purpose for the CIA following their travels abroad. In any case, we now see that there is more to Ruth's Paine's family background than revealed to us by the Warren Commission or the HSCA or Ruth Paine herself.}

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

As related in her own “Autobiography of a Spy” (William Morrow, 1983), Mary Bancroft was a close personal friend of Michael Paine’s mother Ruth Forbes Paine Young. Their intimate friendship dated from the 1920s when Ruth Forbes Paine was married to New York architect Lyman Paine, one of the founders of the Trotyskite movment in the U.S. and father of Michael Paine. Bancroft and Ruth Forbes Paine traveled extensively overseas and were together on board an ocean liner when Bancroft met her future husband, a Zurich businessman.

see http://www.truthmove.org/forum/topic/1344

################################

Simpich //

Although US intelligence records on de Mohrenschildt go back to at least World War II, CIA Director Richard Helms said that the agency’s “initial interest” in George de Mohrenschildt was because he had been a petrochemical consultant with the International Cooperation Administration (ICA). De Mohrenschildt was appointed by the State Department as the “petroleum adviser” for the independent communist Yugoslavian government in 1957, and testified to the Warren Commission that ICA was the only US government agency that ever paid him. The ICA became part of the Agency for International Development (AID) in 1961. The AID has been cited by its former director John Gilligan as being filled with CIA agents “from top to bottom…the idea was to plant operatives in every kind of activity we had overseas, government, volunteer, religious, every kind”.
In early 1963, de Mohrenschildt passed on his “babysitting duties” for the Oswald family to Ruth and Legend Maker #12 Michael Paine. Ruth’s father Bill Hyde was regional director of the Nationwide Insurance Company, part of the International Cooperative Alliance founded in 1922 and still active today. This similarity between these two ICAs is not accidental – the contracts for both groups were coordinated through AID and the State Department. Both de Mohrenschildt and Hyde were business consultants that traveled abroad working on cooperative ventures and provided reports used by the CIA.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Steven Gaal

[Paul Trejo]

<snip>

We know that the State Department Loaned him the money for the return trip back to the United States.

I also have on video tape that the CIA supplied their Assets with Minox Cameras.

A Minox Camera was found among Oswald's possessions after his arrest. (See Spy Stuff Page)

WHY would a Repatriated Defector continue to wear his Marine Corps Ring and his Marine Corps ID Bracelet? Oswald was wearing them when he was arrested.

I can understand a U S Marine Corps Private contracting a Venarial Disease while stationed at a Top Secret U-2 Base.

What I can NOT understand is that it was contracted "In The Line of Duty"???

HOW could a Defector work on Highly Classified material?? (below) (DURING THE MISSLE CRISES)

<snip>

Steve, I agree with your viewpoint that Lee Harvey Oswald was actually a fake-Communist.

What we might still debate is the level at which Oswald was employed by the Agencies.

IMHO, Oswald was "on probation" and received very little money from the Agencies. He probably did get a stipend from the FBI to supply information about the political underground to them.

This is why the FBI would claim that Oswald was "all right" when he was making a nuisance of himself at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall. Oswald wanted to be a double-agent -- but he also wanted to be a super-star. He failed to get the idea of laying low and undercover. He wavered between saying too little and acting out.

For these defects, young Lee Harvey Oswald remained a *potential* employee of the Agencies, or even a temporary, part-time or intern of the Agencies, but he was never a full-fledged employee.

It was probably his ambition to become a full-fledged employee of the Agencies that led him into becoming the patsy for the JFK murder. This is how he was fooled into being the patsy; he thought he was working for these guys on a different project, although since Easter Sunday, 1963, they were playing him for a sap.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 24, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

<snip>

Many in the DPD were useful idiots. Many have speculated as to what percentage of DPD were JBS ,most speculative estimates put 10 % at the low end figure.[/size][/font][/b]

Steve, a former FBI agent and member of this Forum, William Turner (Power on the Right, 1971) said that in the early 1960's, a man could not become an officer of the DPD (Dallas Police Department) unless that man was a member of the KKK, the JBS or the Minutemen, or preferably all three.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 24, 2014 by Paul Trejo