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Micah Mileto

David Lifton teases Final Charade on the Night Fright Show

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On ‎3‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 4:56 PM, Micah Mileto said:

I think Pat Speer's website has a great bit explaining how the arrangement of the scalp and bone flaps may have given the wrong impression of the large head wound in certain photographs. The films do show the large head wound extending somewhat to the back (parietal), but the BOH photographs conceal that with the Doctor holding up a flap of scalp. 

Micah,

I just finished watching the four orienting videos prepared by Pat Speer on his website (www.patspeer.com).

I found them to be EXCELLENT.   In particular, his matching of the controversial JFK skull photograph over the controversial JFK back-of-head photograph was GENIUS.

I agree with Pat Speer's premise entirely.   Thanks for sharing that.

Only one thing -- I disagree with Pat Speer's neglect of any Benign Theory of the SBT.  

Yes -- our Government lied to us.  However, our Government also told us WHY they had to lie to us -- National Security.

Also, Supreme Court Chief Justice Earl Warren said that the TRUTH about the JFK assassination was being "preserved" and would be released in 75 years (i.e. 2039).

Then, in 1992, President GWH Bush signed the JFK Records Act, which made brought the release date forward to Thursday 26 October 2017.

I believe we will learn on that date, when the final 3,000 secret JFK records are finally released -- that there were at least two shooters -- and that our government knew exactly who they were, and who organized the JFK Kill Team.

I believe we will learn that the Radical Right in Dallas (with a secondary team in New Orleans) planned this event in broad terms starting in April 1963, and planned this event in painstaking detail starting in September 1963.   Lee Harvey Oswald was the preferred Patsy (though others were selected in case Oswald skipped town) ever since September 1963.

I completely believe Harry Dean's personal witness that General Walker named Lee Harvey Oswald as their Patsy in a Radical Right meeting in Southern California in September 1963.

All this makes possible a Benign Theory of the SBT.   During the Cold War, the US Government could not afford to risk the USSR making propaganda out of the TRUTH.

Since the USSR fell in 1990, this allowed President Bush to sign the JFK Records Act in 1992.

We will find out if my CT is correct this October -- I truly believe it.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

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3 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

These were FBI memos Hoover wrote, not press releases.

J Edgar was manipulating Tolson's opinion?

Researcher, puh-leeze!

Cliff,

Actually, a case can be made that Clyde Tolson was not privy to the details of the "Lone Nut" theory created by J. Edgar Hoover for LBJ.

Originally, LBJ thought that the FBI could just issue a statement -- and Hoover did -- and it was the "Lone Nut" theory.

Then LBJ decided that would not be enough -- he needed an independent Commission led by Earl Warren.   When Senator Russell said he had no time to be on the Warren Commission, LBJ told him that it wouldn't take any time, "All you'll do is evaluate a Hoover report he has already made."

The Lone Nut theory was fixed before 11/22/1963 was over.  The FBI had already begun to tamper with all evidence to make it fit -- by order of the Director.

At this point only Hoover, LBJ, Dulles and Warren were aware of Hoover's Cover-up scenario. 

To speak to the theme of this thread -- David Lifton's upcoming new book -- I say that Lifton's breakthrough with regard to the tampering of the JFK autopsy is also explained in this Benign Theory of the LN and SBT dogma.

The Bethesda autopsy is best explained as a hasty, rushed reaction to the "Lone Nut", single shooter theory of the JFK murder.

That is why the pre-autopsy was done -- to conceal the fact of shots from the front -- and multiple shots to the head, and frangible bullet particles in the brain.

The pre-autopsy was so rushed and so botched that the Xrays and photographs had to be hidden from the public, and drawings used for the WC, and JFK's brain had to go "missing" from all records.

It was rushed.  It was the "Lone Nut" theory by 5pm EST.  That's the Occam's Razor explanation.

Even Clyde Tolson was kept in the dark.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

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2 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

B.A. Copeland,

So, could one say that your opinion roughly coincides with that of Pat Speer's autopsy theory?    

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

I am not certain as to what his theory is. Is it relevant to my own observation? (no sarcasm intended).

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16 hours ago, B. A. Copeland said:

I am not certain as to what his [Pat Speer's] theory is. Is it relevant to my own observation? (no sarcasm intended).

 

B.A. Copeland,

Thanks for your polite reply.  I'd asked you first about your opinion about the JFK autopsy, and you'd answered as follows:

Well its rather simple personally: my assessment can be fully understood once you study (at the very least) Dr's. David Mantik and Chesser, Milicent Cranor, Sibert and O'Neill, Pierre Finck and, of course, John Stringer testimonies and analyses. those are just a few...that "evidence" would absolutely not be accepted in a non-CIA/Power Elite/Establishment, etc., controlled court today.

Then I thought I'd summarize all that under Pat Speer's contemporary opinion as commonly seen on his website www.patspeer.com.  Pat Speer is a long-term member of this FORUM.

I improperly assumed that you were familiar with Pat Speer's opinions about the JFK autopsy.  I should have addressed your answer more specifically.  I'll correct that now.

First, I'm fairly familiar with the medical authorities that you cited above.

Sibert-O'Neill produced an 11/22/1963 medical observation of the autopsy, which admitted that surgery of JFK's head had already been performed prior to the official autopsy.  They also reported that Parkland doctors had found a bullet on JFK's stretcher, and were convinced it fell out during cardiac massage.

Dr. Pierre Finck, who testified for the Warren Commission, also testified for Jim Garrison in 1969, and admitted that senior Military officers were at the autopsy, in charge, who forbade the pathologists from closely examining JFK's back and throat wounds -- and were manifestly pushing for a lone-shooter conclusion.  He also said  he had ordered various photographs of JFK, and never saw them later. 

John Stringer was the photographer at Bethesda during the JFK autopsy, and he testified to the AARB that photographs of JFK taken that night are still missing.

Mantik-Chesser, in 1993, combined radiology with physics, using "densitometry" techniques to sharply criticize the original JFK autopsy X-rays.

Milicent Cranor is a contemporary critic of the JFK back-of-head autopsy photo.

I do see the pattern of testimony of these witnesses; it is critical of the Warren Commission; and of the conservative tendency of the HSCA.  That is why I cited Pat Speer as a contemporary summarization of all these views.  Pat Speer's excellent videos do agree with Mlicent Cranor's critique of the JFK back-of-head autopsy photo -- showing with logical precision that the carefully groomed scalp in that photo was "photo-shopped" in, so to speak.  In reality, there was a baseball sized hole in JFK's head at that point, and that little flap sticking out from the right side of JFK's head, was only the tip of the actual wound, if it had truly been shown.

I do consider Pat Speer's excellent work to be an adequate summary of David Lifton's position, as well.  I agree with all this work.

My only critique of Lifton-Speer, is that they tend to neglect a Benign Theory of the botched JFK autopsy, which is part of the Lone Shooter theory, which is part of the JFK Cover-up in general.  In my view, there was no CIA plot, rather, there was a legitimate concern for National Security during the Cold War, to keep the Truth from becoming public.

IMHO, the proposed solution by 5pm CST on 11/22/1963 was J. Edgar Hoover's "Lone Nut" theory of the JFK assassination.

While David Lifton and Pat Speer might still agree with a "CIA/Power Elite/Establishment" CT, I disagree with that characterization.  The JFK Cover-up was necessary for Cold War era National Security.  It is significant, IMHO, that President GHW Bush signed the JFK Records Act in 1992, authorizing the release of all secret JFK records in 25 years from its signing, which was October 26, 1992.  That means these records will be released this year -- Thursday 26 October 2017.

If they are not released -- then perhaps I might join a discussion about a "CIA/Power Elite/Establishment" CT.  But I will maintain a Benign Theory of the JFK Cover-up until such an eventuality.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

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On 3/28/2017 at 8:32 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Cliff and I don't agree on much but we agree on PT.

Jim, we agree on the most important thing about the case of JFK's murder -- he was killed in a military-style ambush.

We also agree with the least important thing -- PT just makes stuff up.

The in-between not so much...

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On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 4:43 PM, Cliff Varnell said:

Jim, we agree on the most important thing about the case of JFK's murder -- he was killed in a military-style ambush.

We also agree with the least important thing -- PT just makes stuff up.

The in-between not so much...

Cliff,

Actually, I check my facts frequently.  Challenge me anytime you like.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

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3 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Cliff,

Actually, I check my facts frequently.  Challenge me anytime you like.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

I have, and you just make stuff up.

You say that Hoover was thinking of Gerry Hemming when he said that Oswald had been to Cuba -- something you just made up.

You say that Hoover was trying to pull the wool over the eyes of Clyde Tolson when he wrote on 12/12/63 that he strongly disagreed with the lone nut scenario -- something you just made up.

You made up some story about Hoover contacting Bundy the afternoon of 11/22/63.

Without circular logic you wouldn't betray any logic at all.

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4 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

I have, and you just make stuff up.

You say that Hoover was thinking of Gerry Hemming when he said that Oswald had been to Cuba -- something you just made up.

You say that Hoover was trying to pull the wool over the eyes of Clyde Tolson when he wrote on 12/12/63 that he strongly disagreed with the lone nut scenario -- something you just made up.

You made up some story about Hoover contacting Bundy the afternoon of 11/22/63.

Without circular logic you wouldn't betray any logic at all.

Cliff,

You're trying to be clever in your language -- but you're overstating your case.

I said that it was my OPINION that Hoover was thinking of Gerry Patrick Hemming when he said Oswald went to Cuba.

I said it was my OPINION that Hoover was concealing his invention of the "Lone Nut" theory from Clyde Tolson.

I said it was my OPINION that Hoover contacted Bundy after 4pm EST to tell him about the "Lone Nut" theory, to pass along to LBJ.

That said -- I stand by my OPINION because it is the most LOGICAL way to include ALL of the data.

Loran Hall was indeed stopped by the FBI on 11/22/1963, having possession of Gerry Patrick Hemming's rifle in Dallas -- I didn't make that up.

J. Edgar Hoover came up with the "Lone Nut" theory by 4pm EST, according to Professor David Wrone (2001) -- I didn't make that up.

Yet I think this important data should be included in any comprehensive JFK theory.

You've overstated your case, Cliff.  So your own logic was faulty.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
typos

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6 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Cliff,

You're trying to be clever in your language -- but you're overstating your case.

I said that it was my OPINION that Hoover was thinking of Gerry Patrick Hemming when he said Oswald went to Cuba.

I said it was my OPINION that Hoover was concealing his invention of the "Lone Nut" theory from Clyde Tolson.

I said it was my OPINION that Hoover contacted Bundy after 4pm EST to tell him about the "Lone Nut" theory, to pass along to LBJ.

That said -- I stand by my OPINION because it is the most LOGICAL way to include ALL of the data.

Loran Hall was indeed stopped by the FBI on 11/22/1963, having possession of Gerry Patrick Hemming's rifle in Dallas -- I didn't make that up.

J. Edgar Hoover came up with the "Lone Nut" theory by 4pm EST, according to Professor David Wrone (2001) -- I didn't make that up.

Yet I think this important data should be included in any comprehensive JFK theory.

You've overstated your case, Cliff.  So your own logic was faulty.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

But Paul, you don't cite any data except the bit about Hall's possession of Hemming's rifle.

Wrone's opinion and your opinions are not facts, period.

The facts are that Hoover was a fanatical anti-Communist who claimed Oswald had been in Cuba, and who seriously doubted the lone assassin theory.

You're entitled to your opinions, but they're not based on facts and are not "data."

 

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10 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

But Paul, you don't cite any data except the bit about Hall's possession of Hemming's rifle.

Wrone's opinion and your opinions are not facts, period.

The facts are that Hoover was a fanatical anti-Communist who claimed Oswald had been in Cuba, and who seriously doubted the lone assassin theory.

You're entitled to your opinions, but they're not based on facts and are not "data."

Cliff,

You take a solid fact -- that J. Edgar Hoover was a strident Anticommunisl --and then you MAKE UP a theory that he "must have" behaved in the way that supports a CIA-did-it, "Deep Politics," CT. 

Yet Hoover was not as black-and-white as you seem to imagine, Cliff.

Dr. Caufield's Walker-did-it CT has realistic nuances.  The Radical Right in the USA was manipulating America to blame the Communists for the JFK murder -- and J. Edgar Hoover fought them tooth and nail with his Lone Nut tactic.

Hoover could never let anybody (except LBJ, Earl Warren and Allen Dulles) know that his "Lone Nut" theory was a political strategy. 

Hoover had every opportunity to join the Anticommunisl fiction offered by the Radical Right -- but he refused.

I suspect, Cliff, that you see only a single shade of right-wing, and perhaps the nuances escape you.  Hoover was surely right-wing, but not nearly as right-wing as the Radical Right in Dallas. 

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

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4 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Cliff,

You take a solid fact -- that J. Edgar Hoover was a strident Anticommunisl --and then you MAKE UP a theory that he "must have" behaved in the way that supports a CIA-did-it, "Deep Politics," CT. 

No, I don't posit such a theory.

I've repeatedly speculated that JFK was murdered by supra-institutional actors.

Hoover's strident anti-Communism is consistent with his accusing Oswald of having been to Cuba, and consistent with his strong personal disapproval of the lone assassin theory.as contained in his memo of 12/12/63.

4 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Yet Hoover was not as black-and-white as you seem to imagine, Cliff.

Dr. Caufield's Walker-did-it CT has realistic nuances.  The Radical Right in the USA was manipulating America to blame the Communists for the JFK murder -- and J. Edgar Hoover fought them tooth and nail with his Lone Nut tactic.

Hoover could never let anybody (except LBJ, Earl Warren and Allen Dulles) know that his "Lone Nut" theory was a political strategy. 

Hoover had every opportunity to join the Anticommunisl fiction offered by the Radical Right -- but he refused.

There you go again, just making stuff up.

This conversation is useless.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Hoover's strident anti-Communism is consistent with his accusing Oswald of having been to Cuba, and consistent with his strong personal disapproval of the lone assassin theory.as contained in his memo of 12/12/63.

Cliff,

It remains possible that Hoover mistakenly thought Oswald had been to Cuba, because none of Hoover's records on Oswald said so.

Also, though one could argue that Hoover's Anticommunism was consistent with his disapproval of the "Lone Nut" theory in his memo of 12/12/1963, one would expect a fiery Anticommunism to yield more evidence of Hoover's disapproval of the "Lone Nut" theory than just a single memo.

It is significant that you cannot find even one more example in all the hundreds of memos that Hoover posted on the JFK murder, to make your point.

I can easily show dozens of examples of Hoover's pushing and promoting and shoving the "Lone Nut" theory in everybody's face.  I have already shown some.

Are you sure you can base your theory on one single memo from 12/12/1963 ?

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

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8 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Cliff,

It remains possible that Hoover mistakenly thought Oswald had been to Cuba, because none of Hoover's records on Oswald said so.

Also, though one could argue that Hoover's Anticommunism was consistent with his disapproval of the "Lone Nut" theory in his memo of 12/12/1963, one would expect a fiery Anticommunism to yield more evidence of Hoover's disapproval of the "Lone Nut" theory than just a single memo.

It is significant that you cannot find even one more example in all the hundreds of memos that Hoover posted on the JFK murder, to make your point.

I can easily show dozens of examples of Hoover's pushing and promoting and shoving the "Lone Nut" theory in everybody's face.  I have already shown some.

Are you sure you can base your theory on one single memo from 12/12/1963 ?

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

There's a huge difference between publicly promoting the LN and being the author of the LN.

You have no proof Hoover invented the LN.  Period.

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1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said:

There's a huge difference between publicly promoting the LN and being the author of the LN.

You have no proof Hoover invented the LN.  Period.

Cliff,

You're right that I have no PROOF that Hoover was the author of the LN theory -- nor did I ever say I had PROOF.

I said that Professor David Wrone (Wisconsin U.) convinced me that J. Edgar Hoover invented the LN theory by 4pm EST on 11/22/1963

Aside from that -- I have shown that J. Edgar Hoover was a tireless promoter of the LN theory.

Perhaps some kind soul would help me date the very first time that Hoover promoted the LN theory.

It was very early -- long before the WC was formed, because LBJ suggests it to Senator Russell, IIRC.

Any help out there?

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

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1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

Cliff,

You're right that I have no PROOF that Hoover was the author of the LN theory -- nor did I ever say I had PROOF.

I said that Professor David Wrone (Wisconsin U.) convinced me that J. Edgar Hoover invented the LN theory by 4pm EST on 11/22/1963

Aside from that -- I have shown that J. Edgar Hoover was a tireless promoter of the LN theory.

Perhaps some kind soul would help me date the very first time that Hoover promoted the LN theory.

It was very early -- long before the WC was formed, because LBJ suggests it to Senator Russell, IIRC.

Any help out there?

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

 

I agree that Hoover seemed to come to a LN conclusion unduly early, but he didn't call off the search for possible confederates until Saturday morning:

At 4:01PM EST (3:01PM Dallas time) Oswald had been in custody for 1 hour and 11 minutes. At this point there was little evidence against him, except for an eyewitness report that he entered a movie theater without paying. Despite this, Hoover called Bobby Kennedy again and told him “I thought we had the man who killed the President down in Dallas.” and “since the Secret Service is tied up, I thought we should move into the case.”
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62251#relPageId=96&tab=page

Also at 4PM, Hoover put out a teletype to all FBI offices: “All offices immediately contact all informants, security, racial and criminal, as well as other sources for information bearing on assassination of President Kennedy. All offices immediately establish whereabouts of bombing suspects, all known Klan and hate group members, known racial extremists, and any other individuals who on the basis of information available in your files may possibly have been involved.”
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62251#relPageId=8&tab=page

At 5:15pm J. Edgar Hoover put out a memo stating that LHO was the principal suspect, seemingly based only on his leftist views and travel to Russia: http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62251#relPageId=2&tab=page

By the next morning, Saturday November 23, Hoover apparently felt certain that they had their man, and further investigation was not warranted. He again put out a teletype to all offices stating “Lee Harvey Oswald has been developed as the principal suspect in the assassination of President Kennedy. He has been formerly charged with the President’s murder along with the murder of Dallas Texas patrolman J.D. Tippit by Texas State authorities. In view of developments all offices should resume normal contacts with informants and other sources with respect to bombing suspects, hate group members and known racial extremists. Daily teletype summaries may be discontinued.”
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62251#relPageId=20&tab=page

 

Edited by Ollie Curme
elaboration

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