Bernie Laverick Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: David, You know, if I were a KGB agent and happened to be at Bolton Ford when the guy on the right was trying to buy trucks, and if I'd overheard him call himself Lee Oswald, my first thought would have been, hey, isn't that the guy who defected to Russia? So I'd get some photos of him if I could and I'd contact KGB headquarters and inform them that I might have seen the defector guy, right here in New Orleans. Of course, they'd inform me that, no, my guy must be a different Lee Oswald, because the one who defected was still right there in Minsk. Ah, but I'd know better. Cuz see, I'd have a brain like Bernie's and I'd understand espionage. I'd know this guy must be a double for that defector in Minsk. I mean, how else could could their identical names be explained? Oh deary me, let me take you by the hand Sandy... The man you are referring to at Bolton Ford was clearly active in the Democratic Friends of Cuba, or why else would he be buying trucks using 'his' and that organisation's name? Sandy Larsen is 100% convinced that the DFoC was not at ALL compromised by Russian intelligence, it would have been TOTALLY ruled out that amongst this group there was a Castro agent (or even supporter) who could pass on this information. It is precisely the kind of information that would have been of interest to the Russians anyway, regardless of your fantasy narrative. Why were his handlers so recklessly confident in taking 'Lee' out of his safe house to publically buy trucks for an organisation extremely hostile to Cuba and the USSR? Did 'Lee's' handlers also know for DEFINITE that within DFoC there were no infiltrators and that his real identity and mission would therefore never be uncovered, bearing in mind that the KGB would have been doing everything they could to discover who 'their' Oswald really was? How did they know for definite his identity wouldn't be blown? Not by Bolton Ford employees but by elements within the organisation he was buying trucks for!!! Now do you get it Sandy? They didn't; and that's why YOU say 'he' was (conveniently) kept in a safe house far from curious eyes! That way there would be NO chance that his identity would be compromised. And Sandy can't understand...why anyone would connect Lee Harvey Oswald with Lee Harvey Oswald! I mean, as if there were two Oswalds floating about. Who would possibly have thought that? It's a preposterous idea that the Russians may connect anti Castro LHO with pro Soviet LHO...Preposterous and impossible. So off you go 'Lee' and get me some trucks. Make sure you use your real name though, because there's no such thing as Russian intelligence and you cannot POSSIBLY be found out. Then when you've done that we must put you back in the safe house so as not to compromise your identity! Unbelievably childish... Edited September 6, 2017 by Bernie Laverick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 11 minutes ago, Bernie Laverick said: They didn't; and that's why YOU say 'he' was (conveniently) kept in a safe house far from curious eyes! That way there would be NO chance that his identity would be compromised. Where did I say that, Bernie? 11 minutes ago, Bernie Laverick said: And Sandy can't understand...why anyone would connect Lee Harvey Oswald with Lee Harvey Oswald Bernie, where is it documented that Lee Oswald referred to himself as Lee Harvey Oswald at Bolton Ford? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) On 9/6/2017 at 9:06 AM, Sandy Larsen said: David, You know, if I were a KGB agent and happened to be at Bolton Ford when the guy on the right was trying to buy trucks, and if I'd overheard him call himself Lee Oswald, my first thought would have been, hey, isn't that the guy who defected to Russia? So I'd get some photos of him if I could and I'd contact KGB headquarters and inform them that I might have seen the defector guy, right here in New Orleans. Of course, they'd inform me that, no, my guy must be a different Lee Oswald, because the one who defected was still right there in Minsk. Ah, but I'd know better. Cuz see, I'd have a brain like Bernie's and I'd understand espionage. I'd know this guy must be a double for that defector in Minsk. I mean, how else could could their identical names be explained? There you go again... thinking about 1962 with a 2017 POV.... "So I'd get some photos of him if I could" - You'd go down to the library and get the microfiche out.. or what? What photos would there be of Oswald in New Orleans periodicals in Jan 1961? None. The Ft Worth image - in New Orleans? The reality is that no one knew what Oswald looked like enough to say who was or wasn't Oswald... if the name was used and a glimpse is remembered... we must revert back to the evidence that supports or conflicts with the H&L situation. Don't be fooled by the "HOWCAN THAT BE!!??!!" line of rebuttal... it's meaningless and a waste of time... That certain people cannot comprehend the workings of the world's intelligence agencies is no surprise... These same people are amazed that during a time when spy craft was flourishing and in fact becoming unwieldy, when assassination was a frequently used tool to assist as well as create policy... these people simply took 1960-1964 off... no plans, no black ops, nothing going on... One side in this discussion brings facts and evidence... the other repeatedly whines and cries, screams out opinions and wonders why no one takes them seriously... Edited June 18, 2018 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 9 minutes ago, David Josephs said: 1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said: David, You know, if I were a KGB agent and happened to be at Bolton Ford when the guy on the right was trying to buy trucks, and if I'd overheard him call himself Lee Oswald, my first thought would have been, hey, isn't that the guy who defected to Russia? So I'd get some photos of him if I could and I'd contact KGB headquarters and inform them that I might have seen the defector guy, right here in New Orleans. Of course, they'd inform me that, no, my guy must be a different Lee Oswald, because the one who defected was still right there in Minsk. Ah, but I'd know better. Cuz see, I'd have a brain like Bernie's and I'd understand espionage. I'd know this guy must be a double for that defector in Minsk. I mean, how else could could their identical names be explained? There you go again... thinking about 1962 with a 2017 POV.... "So I'd get some photos of him if I could" - You'd go down to the library and get the microfiche out.. or what? Actually I meant with my handy Minoxavich spy camera, comrade. But your point is well taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Laverick Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said: They didn't; and that's why YOU say 'he' was (conveniently) kept in a safe house far from curious eyes! That way there would be NO chance that his identity would be compromised. Where did you say that Sandy? Jim mentioned it only a few posts ago and so did David. Ok, you win, YOU may have never said that, but Armstrong's H&L does. You are defending H&L ergo.... So where do you think 'Lee' was Sandy? You obviously disagree with Armstrong's narrative on this episode, or why distance yourself rom my comment? Good, that shows independent thought. Given that I've incorrectly associated you with the safe house theory maybe you'd like to share your disagreement with Armstrong and proffer your own explanation to where he was while 'Harvey' was in Russia. On the Bolton Ford incident...YES Sandy, as you so correctly say, he DIDN'T leave his full name. He left only ONE name. Oswald. And that's all you've got!, despite Jim's desperate attempt to con us into thinking he also gave the name Lee. So that's another disagreement you have with H&L... Sandy...are you secretly working for us? PS that quote box should be my quote not Sandy's...don't know how that happened. Edited September 6, 2017 by Bernie Laverick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Bernie, I don't agree 100% with anybody. Not even myself at times. I'll need more time assessing evidence before I can offer an explanation as to what Lee was doing while Harvey was in Russia. It's hard to believe he was sitting in a safe house for 2.5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) Be like trying to prove where Werbel, Sturgis or McKowen were at the same time... When Lorenz tells us, they don't believe it anyway! They were involved with the arming and training of anti-Castro forces at camps hidden away in the Florida everglades... On 9/6/2017 at 11:55 AM, Bernie Laverick said: On the Bolton Ford incident...YES Sandy, as you so correctly say, he DIDN'T leave his full name. He left only ONE name. While Bernie may take Sandy's word for the evidence, maybe actually reading the book HARVEY & LEE and then investigating the evidence accompanying it would be a better way to go? I'm not going to look thru everything to find if/where he said it... but how about the testimony of the man who met this OSWALD character... FRED SEWELL (FS) what did he say? Ooops... LEE OSWALD? .... "Right. That's what he said" Bernie here is a bit too cheap to get the source materials, the book, the CD-ROM, etc.... Too busy to go to BAYLOR and find hundreds of notebooks with evidence not available but from the Archives and from John's CD. I guess if he never saw it and can't find it... he can say anything he wants about it... until it is found and the evidence is shown... Then he winds up looking the same as the rest of the acolytes... Bernie expects there to be a yearbook complete with dated photos of Lee and Sturgis and Ruby. Edited June 18, 2018 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) One more, FWIW... Thanks John Edited June 18, 2018 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Laverick Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 20 minutes ago, David Josephs said: Be like trying to prove where Werbel, Sturgis or McKowen were at the same time... When Lorenz tells us, they don't believe it anyway! They were involved with the arming and training of anti-Castro forces at camps hidden away in the Florida everglades... While Bernie may take Sandy's word for the evidence, maybe actually reading the book HARVEY & LEE and then investigating the evidence accompanying it would be a better way to go? I'm not going to look thru everything to find if/where he said it... but how about the testimony of the man who met this OSWALD character... FRED SEWELL (FS) what did he say? Ooops... LEE OSWALD? .... "Right. That's what he said" Bernie here is a bit too cheap to get the source materials, the book, the CD-ROM, etc.... Too busy to go to BAYLOR and find hundreds of notebooks with evidence not available but from the Archives and from John's CD. I guess if he never saw it and can't find it... he can say anything he wants about it... until it is found and the evidence is shown... Then he winds up looking the same as the rest of the acolytes... Bernie expects there to be a yearbook complete with dated photos of Lee and Sturgis and Ruby. You've posted nothing more than Jim has already done, about 13 times! Just repeating hearsay ad nauseam doesn't make you right. All you have on Bolton Ford is one individual, Sewell, several years later saying that this customer wrote down the name Lee Oswald. Subsequent proof emerged that Sewell was mistaken and only the word Oswald appeared on the document, thus revealing his lack of credibility as a witness. Is that unfair of me? To call him an unreliable witness? What height did he say 'Lee' was? Was he right or wrong on that? So he gor the wrong name and he gave the wrong description...yet he is your ONLY witness on this!!! Bernie expects there to be a yearbook complete with dated photos of Lee and Sturgis and Ruby. This is typical H&L methodology. As you will now be aware, they have absolutely NO proof whatsoever of where 'Lee' was living during 'Harvey's' defection: mainly because he doesn't exist!. Not unreasonably we repeatedly ask this question and this is their response (see above). We ask for a morsel - they accuse us of wanting it ALL! Don't tell us that this information is unavailable because of how closely managed he was, and that his whereabouts were a strict secret. You have him buying trucks using his own name for Christ's sake!!! If he were allowed to do that he must have been witnessed doing other things. Show us the PROOF. Not tittle tattle from disenfranchised losers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 What an amazingly small and petty man you've become BL... Not getting what you need at home so you spread the anger here... well done. Since you still haven't the first clue regarding the planning involved with the assassination or H&L... Why again should anyone here give you or what you post anything more than a chuckle and a {sigh}... Oh yes, that's what I thought... No one does. You gonna send an IM threatening to kill me again Bernie?... or did you finally take that Anger Management class you needed... ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Laverick Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) 36 minutes ago, David Josephs said: What an amazingly small and petty man you've become BL... Not getting what you need at home so you spread the anger here... well done. Since you still haven't the first clue regarding the planning involved with the assassination or H&L... Why again should anyone here give you or what you post anything more than a chuckle and a {sigh}... Oh yes, that's what I thought... No one does. You gonna send an IM threatening to kill me again Bernie?... or did you finally take that Anger Management class you needed... ?? And finally, we run out of steam, can't answer the points raised, so resort to insults and lies. I did write you a very pithy angry letter once David, in reply to your toxic provocation, though there was no mention of a death threat. The British police take that kind of thing very seriously and you would certainly be arrested for doing so. So, no death threats, just a few lines to tell you what a tawdry, vicious little man you are. And also you are a sexist barefaced xxxx! So, still no answers to offer? Where was 'Lee' living while Harvey was in Russia? Are you now going to make some more insulting remarks about my family? Even Dawn Meredith pulled you up for that. Far from being angry Mr Gullible, I am at the moment ecstatic. At 59 I have just released my first album to critical acclaim. It's a stonker! Have fun with your sloping shoulders big boy! Edited September 6, 2017 by Bernie Laverick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 6 minutes ago, Bernie Laverick said: I did write you a very pithy angry letter once David, in reply to your toxic provocation, though there was no mention of a death threat. The British police take that kind of thing very seriously and you would certainly be arrested for doing so. So, no death threats, just a few lines to tell you what a tawdry, vicious little man you are. And also you are a sexist barefaced xxxx! pretty sure you meant "sexy"... yet we both know (along with the mods) what you wrote... 7 minutes ago, Bernie Laverick said: Far from being angry Mr Gullible, I am at the moment ecstatic. At 59 I have just released my first album to critical acclaim. It's a stonker Well done Bernie.... enjoy every second... Bernie Laverick FEBRUARY 4, 2014 When Bernie isn’t acting or singing with The Black Pearls he is working on his current project, a musical play based on the life of Marina Oswald, the widow of the alleged JFK assassin Lee Harvey Oswald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Walton Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 That photo that shows Oswald turning around - where his bare arm is showing - and the Marine next to it, is spot on! He even holds his hands in a certain way in both photos. I think the height captions are disingenuous - it's the same guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Baumann Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 On 06.09.2017 at 5:51 PM, Michael Walton said: Mathias, read Thornley's wiki page. Do you really think it's worth even discussing? He knew LHO fleetingly then being a clever person wrote about it to make a buck, like Hargrove is trying to keep this silly story on the up and up so suckers keep buying the $60 fairy tale. That's all there is about Thornley and why you're asking Hargrove, as if he's a huge fount of knowledge about the case is beyond me. Look around as he only cares about this silly nonsense. Michael, as far as I know Thornley started writing "The Idle Warriors" before Oswald even killed Kennedy. If that is true he certainly was very prescient... About Wikipedia: I don't consider it a reliable source of information especially when it comes to the Kennedy assassination. I've done some work on the German-language article on the assassination, so I know what I'm talking about. The admin responsible for the article didn't even know who John Newman was, can you believe that? No wonder the article was completely biased. About the Bolton Ford incident: Do you really think the use of the name "Oswald" was mere coincidence? What about the descripton of "Joseph Moore"? An athletic Latino who had a scar over his left eye? Just like the man who monitored Oswald handing out the leaflets in 1963? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Walton Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 I'm not saying Wiki is always accurate but it does a pretty good job of explaining things as long as things are sourced. I've contributed to Wiki and I've always sourced my material. The whole point I'm trying to make is you're barking up the wrong tree with Thornley. Did you read State Secret? I'm reading it again. You can pretty much track the real Oswald and what's happening to him while he was over in the USSR. As others explained with Bolton - so someone said Oswald and it was written down on the order request. Big deal. It happened supposedly two whole years before the assassination. So Guy Banister's outfit was the original requester of the trucks. We all know Banister got Oswald to hand out the leaflets in NO later. Fine. It's one more piece of evidence that Oswald was being sheep dipped to make him look like a mad Marxist. That's all. It's got nothing to do with this supposed Oswald's Hungarian clone. Read State Secret. There is absolutely nothing in there about a supposed impostor. But one thing you will find interesting is how the Oswald legend that started minutes after the shooting in Dallas actually goes back to the description of LHO and Webster. All of this makes far more logical and plausible sense than this clone story. Look at the photos above that were posted. Can you really - deep down in the recesses of your mind - say that all of those photos look like two different people? They really don't. People don't always look precisely the same from photo to photo and from different time periods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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