A Couple of Real Gems from the "Harvey and Lee" Website

[Jim Hargrove]

23 hours ago, Bernie Laverick said:

Er, yes...! That is a huge margin of error. Too much. So your theory goes out of the window.  

Oh no, not out the window!  Couldn’t we at least be shown the door?  

Your tough guy routine, considering the paltry bit of evidence you appear able to discuss, is pitiful..  Mr. Parnell has been calling H&L dead and buried in almost every post for years now, and he’s still here doing the same tired shtick.  You will be too if you shtick around.

To learn the truth about the Bolton Ford incident, click on this link:

http://harveyandlee.net/Misc/Bolton.html

Edited September 5, 2017 by Jim Hargrove

[Jim Hargrove]

On 4/11/2017 at 9:24 AM, Dawn Meredith said:

Jim I hardly ever come here anymore. Seems a waste of time.  Answering all these questions and proving over and over that John Armstrong's research is valid goes no where.  Naysayers don't care about truth, just argument for the sake of argument. All of the witnesses who testified as to the perfection of Harvey's Russian had zero motive to lie. And was pointed out he had not mastered the English language. Typical of someone whose second language is English.

Since we don't have any real arguments from the H&L critics about Bolton Ford or Harvey Oswald's Russian language abilities, let's move on to another subject.  I'll be happy to revisit Bolton Ford or Oswald's Russian abilities if anyone opposed to the truth can marshal a reasonable rebuttal.  I know Mr. Bojczuk  refuses to give me permission to do this, but here we go nevertheless ....

[Jim Hargrove]

On 3/29/2017 at 3:41 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

One of my favorite Harvey and Lee examples comes courtesy of the USMC.

Throughout much of 1957 and 1958, American-born LEE Harvey Oswald was serving continuously in the United States Marine Corps, in bases at various locations in the mainland U.S. and in Japan and the Phillipines.  During this same time, Russian-speaking Lee HARVEY Oswald was placed briefly in several USMC training facilities but spent much of the time living in the Hotel Senator in New Orleans and later in Fort Worth.

But in September 1958, Harvey Oswald traveled from the mainland U.S. to the large Marine base at Atsugi, Japan, where Lee Oswald was also stationed.  According to First Lieutenant William K. Trail, Harvey was placed in the brig at Atsugi.  This was probably done to keep Harvey away from Marines who worked and bunked with Lee at the base.  That was critical, because Harvey was about to assume Lee’s USMC identity, and start acting like a Russian-loving communist in preparation for his false defection.

According to Marine Corps Unit Diary 151- 58 (744), Lee Harvey Oswald and his unit departed from Japan for a week long trip to the South China Sea on September 14, 1958 aboard the USS Skagit (AKA 105), an attack cargo ship.
 

 

While Lee Oswald was still stationed at Atsugi, Japan, Harvey Oswald arrived in Taiwan on September 30, 1958, where he soon was spotted doing a very un-Marine like thing.   On the evening of October 4, 1958, Lt. Charles Rhodes heard four or five rifle shots coming from the direction of the position that Harvey was guarding. Rhodes ran toward Oswald and found him slumped against a tree, shaking, and crying while holding his rifle. He kept saying that he just couldn't bear to be on guard duty.  Harvey’s Taiwan adventure would soon come to an end.

In the meantime, though, while Harvey was still aboard the USS Skagit and accompanying real Marines in Taiwan (9/14/58–10/6/58), LEE Oswald contracted veneral disease and was repeatedly treated for it at the Navy Hospital in Atsugi, Japan, some 1400 miles from Taiwan.   Medical records for NAS Navy 3835 a Naval Hospital at Atsugi, show numerous medical entries for LEE Oswald recorded on Sept 16, 20, 22, 23, 29, and Oct 6.

 

 

As good as this story is so far, it gets even better.  But I’m going to pause for a moment and let Tracy Parnell or someone similar make a post with a link to somewhere saying all this has been “debunked”. Wait for it—it shouldn’t take long.  Then I'll show the rest of the story.

This is going to be fun!
 

Are there any H&L critics who will argue against the above?  Or will you all just say Greg Parker has all the answers but you will not list any of the answers here?

Of course you will.  You always do!  Will any H&L critic find the courage to debate this issue RIGHT HERE?    

[W. Tracy Parnell]

42 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Are there any H&L critics who will argue against the above?  Or will you all just say Greg Parker has all the answers but you will not list any of the answers here?

Of course you will.  You always do!  Will any H&L critic find the courage to debate this issue RIGHT HERE?    

As is the case with the school records, the H&L supporters have been provided with alternate explanations again and again. They simply refuse to accept them and pretend that no explanation has ever been provided. But people like myself, Bernie, Greg Parker, Jeremy, Michael W., Tommy Graves, David Lifton and many others have continually done so going back several years. There is an explanation for EVERY issue they raise, even if it is simply that records are being misinterpreted and witnesses are mistaken.

[Jim Hargrove]

Great, Mr. Parnell,

Since you say there are so many, please put one or two of the "alternate explanations" RIGHT HERE!  Let's see them!

Do you keep them all SECRET?  Why?

THIS IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE OF A JOKE!

[Jim Hargrove]

19 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

As is the case with the school records, the H&L supporters have been provided with alternate explanations again and again.

Let's see just one "alternate explanation."  Please post it right here! 

Of course, you do not have the courage to do so, do you?

[Sandy Larsen]

5 hours ago, Bernie Laverick said:

"The Oswald Project was about planting a Russian speaking spy in the Soviet Union and having an innocent looking background on him available for the Soviets to see if they bothered to do a background check on him."

So...why did they allow 'Lee' to go and buy some trucks using his real name while a rudimentary "background check on him" could possibly reveal this? What would the KGB have thought had they received this information? Why take such a monumental risk?

What was the KGB supposed to do? Look for every Lee Oswald in the United States and do a background check on each and every one to see if any matched their Oswald? What would even plant a seed in their brains to do such a thing?

The obvious thing for the KGB to do was to piece together the background of their Oswald and see if it led to any intelligence connections.

 

[Bernie Laverick]

Very good Sandy, you've been promoted to whatever rank Steve Gaal had in your microscopic circle of delusional middle aged men who think they have made themselves look so very important. If only the rest of humanity had the same levels of intelligence we too would be able to follow all of this.

"The obvious thing for the KGB to do was to piece together the background of their Oswald and see if it led to any intelligence connections." 

No, that's the silliest thing I've ever heard on this forum. But it just wheedles you out of a large hole, but straight into an even bigger one. His background and his present situation all led to  intelligence connections! He was in Russia, spying for the USA! Now they hear through the intelligence grapevine that there is another LHO heavily involved in anti Castro activities buying trucks in his own name. Why do you think the Russians would NEVER EVER have got this information. Do you know anything about the world of espionage? You seriously consider that such a high profile defection isn't going to be compromised by having the doppelganger appearing here there and everywhere? But in other conversations where we ask for proof of ''Lee's' existence you laugh at us and say that he was kept strictly under control in a safe house precisely so as not to compromise the project, which it obviously would if he were allowed out to go and buy trucks in his own name. 

Now this childish piece of nonsense has been overwhelmingly disproved Jim wants to change the subject...AGAIN...just as we all predicted.

H&L = LN

[Jeremy Bojczuk]

Jim Hargrove writes:

<blockquote>If we are to believe the wording in the FBI report, we must wonder why Oscar Deslatte  was so convinced he had met with "Lee Harvey Oswald" in the first place that he was telling his story to others</blockquote>

As I have explained more than once already, the evidence is absolutely not consistent with the conclusion that Oscar Deslatte was convinced he had met the real Oswald whose name and photograph were all over the news after the assassination. Deslatte specifically claimed that the man he met gave only a surname, and not a first name. He did not recognise Oswald when shown a photograph of him. He was unable to recall the man's appearance sufficiently to be able to provide the FBI with a description. Deslatte stated that "he could neither describe nor identify either of the men who came in as it was almost three years ago that they were there and only spent a short time with him. He said he remembered the incident, not by the name Oswald, but because of the name of the organization represented."

Jim writes:

<blockquote>Why did that FBI report go directly to J. Edgar Hoover? Because it threatened to expose the entire "Oswald Project,"</blockquote>

Of course it wasn't because it threatened to expose the 'Oswald project', which didn't even exist. I'm glad Jim made this mistake, because it gives me the chance to include one of those links he likes so much. The reason why the FBI report went to Hoover is explained here:

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1408-the-bolton-ford-incident

Jim writes:

<blockquote>Sewell stated, late in the interview, that he couldn’t remember whether one name or two were written on the Bolton Ford bid form</blockquote>

As I have pointed out several times, Fred Sewell was an unreliable witness. Deslatte was a more reliable witness than Sewell. I'm glad Jim agrees with me at last.

Jim writes:

<blockquote>Sewell was clearly off by four or five inches about Lee Oswald’s height.</blockquote>

Again, Sewell was an unreliable witness, which is not good for Jim. Alternatively, if Sewell happened to be correct about the man's height, that's not good for Jim either, since it demolishes the ridiculous notion that the man whom Sewell met was an Oswald doppelganger.

Jim writes:

<blockquote>When Oscar Deslatte began spreading the word around New Orleans that he had met with Lee Harvey Oswald</blockquote>

Again, there is no evidence that Deslatte was certain that he had met the real Lee Harvey Oswald. He evidently didn't feel strongly enough to contact the FBI himself. Deslatte appears to have mentioned the incident to his colleague, Fred Sewell, and to one other person, Charles Pearson of Graham Paper Co. Pearson told Mary Cusco, an employee of his. Cusco told her husband. Mr Cusco told Orlando Piedra. Piedra told Carlos Bringuier. Bringuier told the FBI.

Jim writes:

<blockquote>both Deslatte and Sewell seemed so certain they had met with Lee Harvey Oswald</blockquote>

For the umpteenth time, Deslatte was not certain that he had met the real Lee Harvey Oswald, and Sewell was an unreliable witness. We know that Sewell was an unreliable witness because one claim he made, that the paperwork contained the name 'Lee Oswald', is demonstrably false.

Jim writes:

<blockquote>Mr. Bojczuk REALLY want us to believe the FBI report on Deslatte over the Garrison transcript of Fred Sewell’s interview!</blockquote>

For the reasons I've already given several times, Deslatte was a more reliable witness than Sewell.

Jim writes:

<blockquote>Well, let’s see some more about how reliable the FBI was in this case</blockquote>

Is Jim actually claiming that the FBI's report of its interview with Oscar Deslatte was faked? As I pointed out earlier, and as any rational person understands, you can't just assume that an inconvenient item of evidence is a forgery when it suits your purposes.

[Jim Hargrove]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

Is Jim actually claiming that the FBI's report of its interview with Oscar Deslatte was faked? As I pointed out earlier, and as any rational person understands, you can't just assume that an inconvenient item of evidence is a forgery when it suits your purposes.

The evidence clearly shows the FBI report was faked.  The report said, “DESLATTE was exhibited a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD and he said he cannot recall ever having seen him before….”

 

But Deslatte’s boss, Fred Sewell, said several times that the FBI did not show them pictures. 

 

 

The FBI report is false on the face of it.  Since you say there were other “Oswalds” in New Orleans at the time, there would have been no reason for Deslatte to have assumed this was the Oswald killed by Jack Ruby unless he remembered something about him.

 

The FBI was following its familiar pattern of destroying, inventing, or altering evidence that did not fit the story J. Edgard Hoover wanted told.  This three minute video demonstrates three examples:

 

 

To see the truth about the Bolton Ford incident, click on this link:

http://harveyandlee.net/Misc/Bolton.html

[W. Tracy Parnell]

10 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Great, Mr. Parnell,

Since you say there are so many, please put one or two of the "alternate explanations" RIGHT HERE!  Let's see them!

Do you keep them all SECRET?  Why?

THIS IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE OF A JOKE!

Yes, it is a joke. Here are some links to general H&L rebuttal sites and a couple of links to alternate explanations of the school records and Japan. You simply follow the links and read them. BTW, some of these links include rebuttals to points made here at EF by H&L supporters including Jim and Sandy. I would say that all the major issues raised by the H&L supporters are addressed by these three sites.

Greg Parker's H&L Archive:

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/f13-the-harvey-lee-evidence

My own H&L archive (scroll down)

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/p/p.html

Jeremy B.:

http://22november1963.org.uk/john-armstrong-harvey-and-lee-theory

School Records:

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1500-one-more-attempt-at-those-darn-school-records

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1361-creating-mayhem-with-historical-records

Japan:

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1399-the-skagit-according-to-a-former-crew-member

When I get the time, I may try and put together a page that will serve as an index to the H&L rebuttals.

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by W. Tracy Parnell

[Jeremy Bojczuk]

Jim claims that:

<blockquote>The evidence clearly shows the FBI report was faked.</blockquote>

At last! A moment of honesty (and paranoia). Jim really does believe that the FBI faked the report of its interview with Oscar Deslatte!

To support his claim, he wheels out Fred Sewell, who claimed that he and Oscar Deslatte were not shown a photograph of the real-life, one and only, historical Lee Harvey Oswald. But Deslatte claimed that he was in fact shown a photograph of Oswald, and that he was unable to identify Oswald as the man he had met. Why does Jim believe Sewell over Deslatte?

As I've explained several times already, there is no good reason to believe Sewell over Deslatte:

- Sewell was interviewed several years after Deslatte, and about six years after the incident in question.

- It was Deslatte who actually dealt with the customer. Sewell admitted that "I wasn't at my desk all the time, I was in and out working because I had customers".

- Sewell was categorically wrong in his one specific claim about the encounter that can be checked. He claimed that Deslatte had written the name 'Lee Oswald' on the paperwork. But the paperwork contains only the surname, 'Oswald'. No doubt the FBI faked that document too.

- Deslatte had no conceivable reason to lie to the FBI.

If there is a conflict between Deslatte's testimony and Sewell's, it is Deslatte's testimony that should be believed. Unfortunately, if you believe Deslatte over Sewell, as any rational person must, one more part of the 'Harvey and Lee and Marguerite and Marguerite' fantasy disappears down the toilet, where it belongs.

[Sandy Larsen]

7 hours ago, Bernie Laverick said:

"The obvious thing for the KGB to do was to piece together the background of their Oswald and see if it led to any intelligence connections." 

No, that's the silliest thing I've ever heard on this forum. But it just wheedles you out of a large hole, but straight into an even bigger one. His background and his present situation all led to  intelligence connections!

Oh my god. Oswald's background was going to to junior high school, high school, and working at some jobs, and then in the Marines. Obviously the KGB would focus on his adult years, which wouldn't be much.

In reality, yes, there were intelligence connections. There was no way of escaping that. But OBVIOUSLY, einstein, steps were taken to keep those connections hidden. Jeez.

(What a piece of work.)

Edited September 5, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[David Josephs]

On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 5:42 AM, Michael Walton said:

Jim - we're also waiting for your reply.  Can you clarify why one of your supporters is saying the school records were forged and you're saying that these same records were made to disappear? I mean think about it.  It doesn't make a one iota of sense. If the records were NOT forged - the opposite of what Josephs is claiming and they STILL showed there were two little Oswalds running around - then yes, your claim that they were trying to make the records disappear would make some semblance of sense.

But if the records DID NOT show or CANNOT prove that there were two Oswalds and they needed to be forged to show that there WERE two Oswalds, what would be the point of doing this when the government wanted to show all along that Oswald was nothing but a crazed lone gun man?

But you cannot have it both ways so it's important that you clarify this.

 

Hi Michael...  Maybe this will help

There were 2 boys who attended grade school.  In 1952 Marge and Lee drive to NYC... (it would help if you were familiar with the Harvey & Lee book and the key milestone details)

They stay with Edward Pic and family in Manhattan

Boy #1 is not a very good student, does not like going to school and is very much the loaner (when they return to the south, "Lee's" southern accent is gone)
Boy #2 was one of the largest in his 6th grade class, a leader, a fighter, a sports player... never a loan, never a reader, never a Marxist.

In March 1953, Boy #1 is transferred to PS44 in the Bronx while Boy #2 is attending PS44 in Mahattan
Boy #1 goes to YOUTH HOUSE in April/May 1953... this is not recorded on the PERM RECORD since the information for PS44 is Lee's.

Boy #2 has a huge number of truants until the records begin to incorporate LEE's actual record starting 3/23/53...  yet 109 days attendance and 15 days absent from 3/23 - 6/64 is not possible.  There are simply not that many days left in the Spring 1953 semester...  TEACHER and ADMINSTRATORS know better... the FBI, in their haste, did not.

So this 5'4" 115lb entering 7th grader returns to the South as a 4'10" 95lb 9th grader...  again, not possible

The NYC records in evidence are required to tell a story of a single child, in fact the evidence is not what any normal person would expect to see for a child attending school at a normal rate.

This all culminates with the very strange Housekeeper Robertson episode who was hired by Marge to come by a clean a tiny apartment while they had no money... This housekeeper literally lived around the corner from these Oswald's in NYC...  she goes to the FBI on her own and tells an interesting story about the yet unopened Jacobi Medical Center...

Anyway,  the FBI is famous for their treatment, creation, alteration and care of evidence to meet Hoover's expectation.
Read the interview with John Ely to learn a bit more about the consequences of looking to closely at Oswald's life story...

Peace

DJ
 

[Sandy Larsen]

6 hours ago, Bernie Laverick said:

Now they hear through the intelligence grapevine that there is another LHO heavily involved in anti Castro activities buying trucks in his own name. Why do you think the Russians would NEVER EVER have got this information.

Bernie,

Do you think that there were KGB agents at Bolton Ford?

For the sake of argument I'll concede and agree with you, that some KGB agent might have seen Lee Oswald there and might have reported that back to KGB headquarters.

Do you seriously believe that the KGB might have suspected that the Lee Oswald living in New Orleans might be the same Lee Oswald they had living there in Minsk?

I mean jeez, Bernie... think. Think!

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by Sandy Larsen