Who was the nurse collecting the TRUE bullet falling from Connally's thigh?

[Michael Clark]

23 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

That's odd. Because I also recall Connally describing something drop to the floor. That's how I became aware of this issue.

Perhaps what I saw was a video with a narrator describing how Connally heard something drop.

 

Thanks Sandy, I wouldn't have said anything without further confirmation, but I would swear that I saw a video and heard Connally describing the object drop. 

[Robert Harris]

25 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Huh?? Why on Earth would you think the RECEIPT ITSELF would need to be "catalogued" and therefore show up in an "INVENTORY OF EVIDENCE" list like the one we find in CE2003? You think the HOSPITAL MEMO itself should have been mentioned on the DPD's inventory sheet? That's crazy.

 

Nobody lied about this incident at all. Nobody. Bell was simply mistaken about the person to whom she gave the envelope containing the Connally bullet fragments. And via your own interview of Bobby Nolan, we know that Nolan himself didn't actually SEE what was inside the envelope. He had no idea what was in there. And Henry Wade's memory of the event must have also faded quite a bit too. He has undoubtedly conflated information concerning the "stretcher bullet" (CE399) with information about the envelope which contained only FRAGMENTS from Governor Connally's wrist. (What year did Wade say what he said about the "bullet" and the "gurney", Bob? I'm not sure when it was. Can you please inform me.)

 

And she was obviously wrong. And the hospital memo plus CE2003 provide the PROOF she was wrong/mistaken.

Why on Earth would you think the RECEIPT ITSELF would need to be "catalogued" and therefore show up in an "INVENTORY OF EVIDENCE"

Because it would have been extremely important evidence, which confirmed the chain of custody. Not only was this thing NOT in the DPD archives, but it never appeared in the National Archives, except buried in some box of items the HSCA had gotten from Parkland years later.

Nobody lied about this incident at all.

The Psychic Hotline closed down years ago. So how did you confirm that no one lied?

Please be specific.

And yes, Nolan didn't see the bullet. He was told that it was a bullet, undoubtedly by the same nurse who Connally saw retrieve it. Wade also encountered that nurse, who was holding the bullet in her hand and who told him exactly the same thing that she told Nolan.

Wade stated that in an interview in 1993. Are you going to claim that those men suffered identical delusions due to age? How did they manage to both come up with the bullet coming from Connally's "gurney" - exactly where Connally said it came from?

The "gurney" was unintuitive, David. The natural presumption would be that it was recovered in surgery. No one would just hallucinate something like that. They had to have been told.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Robert Harris

[Robert Harris]

17 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

Thanks Sandy, I wouldn't have said anything without further confirmation, but I would swear that I saw a video and heard Connally describing the object drop. 

OK, for the first one to find and link that video, I will ask David to send a check for $1000!!

 

 

[Michael Clark]

1 minute ago, Robert Harris said:

OK, for the first one to find and link that video, I will ask David to send a check for $1000!!

 

 

It was probably on his site, never to be seen again! Lol

[David Von Pein]

11 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

It was probably on his site, never to be seen again! Lol

I've collected several of Connally's interviews and press conferences on my sites, but he doesn't mention anything about hearing the "falling bullet" in any of them....

http://dvp-video-audio-archive.blogspot.com/2012/03/john-and-nellie-connally.html

[Michael Clark]

1 minute ago, David Von Pein said:

I've collected several of Connally's interviews and press conferences on my sites, but he doesn't mention anything about hearing the "falling bullet" in any of them....

http://dvp-video-audio-archive.blogspot.com/2012/03/john-and-nellie-connally.html

Thanks David. I can recall his expressions that don't come across in words, even him squinting as he described the "ting" sound. I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong more as I get older, but dam, it seems so clear to me.

[David Von Pein]

Robert Harris said:

Wade stated that in an interview in 1993. Are you going to claim that those men suffered identical delusions due to age? How did they manage to both come up with the bullet coming from Connally's "gurney" - exactly where Connally said it came from?

As I speculated earlier, I think it's merely a matter of conflating things. 1993 was thirty years after these events occurred. I think when Henry Wade said what he said about Connally's "gurney", he had thoughts in his mind of the CE399 "stretcher bullet". Wade knew that a whole bullet was, indeed, found on Connally's stretcher (or "gurney") at Parkland. And he also had in his mind an event at Parkland which involved a nurse and an envelope which contained some bullet fragments that were recovered from Governor Connally's body. Those two events, in my opinion, could very likely have become merged in Wade's head, so when Wade talked about the events of 11/22/63 in later years, he merged and conflated Stretcher Bullet 399 with a nurse holding an envelope which contained only bullet fragments.

If you want to accuse me of merely inventing a convenient excuse in order to dismiss Henry Wade's 1993 story, well, go ahead. But, nevertheless, "conflation" is what I think probably happened.

Edited August 16, 2017 by David Von Pein

[Robert Harris]

7 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

As I speculated earlier, I think it's merely a matter of conflating things. 1993 was thirty years after these events occurred. I think when Henry Wade said what he said about Connally's "gurney", he had thoughts in his mind of the CE399 "stretcher bullet". Wade knew that a whole bullet was, indeed, found on Connally's stretcher (or "gurney") at Parkland. And he also had in his mind an event at Parkland which involved a nurse and an envelope which contained some bullet fragments that were recovered from Governor Connally's body. Those two events, in my opinion, could very likely have become merged in Wade's head, so when Wade talked about the events of 11/22/63 in later years, he merged and conflated Stretcher Bullet 399 with a nurse holding an envelope which contained only bullet fragments.

If you want to accuse me of merely inventing a convenient excuse in order to dismiss Henry Wade's 1993 story, well, go ahead. But, nevertheless, "conflation" is what I think probably happened.

David, you are hilarious.

And I guess Nolan suffered exactly the same delusion, right? And Connally? How about Stinson? Is this why he believed this was a whole bullet, just like Nolan and Wade did?

And what delusion caused Bell to be adamant that she never gave anything to Nolan?

My crazy theory: Connally, Nolan, Wade, Stinson and Bell told the truth.

David, you don't understand how conflation works. A person might confuse similar events but Wade would never have hallucinated a detailed conversation with a nurse who was holding a whole bullet in her hand.

And the fact that Nolan heard the nurse say EXACTLY THE SAME THING eliminates any possibility that this was a delusion.

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Robert Harris
Adding an argument

[James DiEugenio]

9 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

That's the problem, Ray. It's in Connally's book (which apparently was only published after he died), but Connally never ONCE mentioned this incident in any of his public interviews (which seems kind of odd---wouldn't you agree?---since Connally was never shy about expressing his displeasure with the SBT), plus he provided this WC testimony, which totally contradicts his book....

ARLEN SPECTER -- "Do you know whether there was any bullet, or bullet fragments, that remained in your body or in your clothing as you were placed on the emergency stretcher at Parkland Hospital?"

JOHN B. CONNALLY -- "No."

Davey is conveniently leaving out the fact that he told his wife and she confirmed this to Mickey H.

Connally never went as far in public as he did in private.  Which is something else that DVP refuses to acknowledge-- even though its true. 

Doug Thompson asked him flat out if he bought the WCR.  Let me quote that discussion verbatim from Joe McBride's book in order to get it through DVP's rather obtuse thinking pattern:

DT: Did you think Lee Harvey Oswald fired the gun that killed Kennedy?

JBC: Absolutely not.  I do not, for one second, believe the conclusions of the Warren Commission.

DT: So why not speak out?

JBC: Because I love this country and we needed closure at the time.  I will never speak out publicly about what I believe. (p. 418)

Now, if that does not explain a few things I do not know what would.  He is not denying the SBT here Davey Boy. He is saying that Oswald  did not fire a shot that day.  And he is saying he felt that way from the start. Which would seem to be from when the WCR announced its conclusions. And he hid what he really knew and felt because of this goofy misguided patriotism that has screwed up this country.

And maybe that is why he told his wife in secret.  And that is why he did not disclose it until he was at death's door.  It completely jibes with what he told Thompson.

BTW, one last humorous aspect.  In this day and age, for Davey to quote the WC testimony of anyone, especially when the questioning is by Specter, is simply ludicrous.  If you dig up Ken O'Donnell's false affidavit about the direction of the shots, you will see that that was rehearsed with him by Specter. And that is just one example of falsely elicited testimony.  And these are the kinds of people DVP trusts.

Edited August 16, 2017 by James DiEugenio

[Robert Harris]

57 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Davey is conveniently leaving out the fact that he told his wife and she confirmed this to Mickey H.

Connally never went as far in public as he did in private.  Which is something else that DVP refuses to acknowledge-- even though its true. 

Doug Thompson asked him flat out if he bought the WCR.  Let me quote that discussion verbatim from Joe McBride's book in order to get it through DVP's rather obtuse thinking pattern:

DT: Did you think Lee Harvey Oswald fired the gun that killed Kennedy?

JBC: Absolutely not.  I do not, for one second, believe the conclusions of the Warren Commission.

DT: So why not speak out?

JBC: Because I love this country and we needed closure at the time.  I will never speak out publicly about what I believe. (p. 418)

Now, if that does not explain a few things I do not know what would.  He is not denying the SBT here Davey Boy. He is saying that Oswald  did not fire a shot that day.  And he is saying he felt that way from the start. Which would seem to be from when the WCR announced its conclusions. And he hid what he really knew and felt because of this goofy misguided patriotism that has screwed up this country.

And maybe that is why he told his wife in secret.  And that is why he did not disclose it until he was at death's door.  It completely jibes with what he told Thompson.

BTW, one last humorous aspect.  In this day and age, for Davey to quote the WC testimony of anyone, especially when the questioning is by Specter, is simply ludicrous.  If you dig up Ken O'Donnell's false affidavit about the direction of the shots, you will see that that was rehearsed with him by Specter. And that is just one example of falsely elicited testimony.  And these are the kinds of people DVP trusts.

David knows all about that. He responded to my post in a.a.j. last year which cited Thompson at http://www.capitolhillblue.com/node/24557 with a personal insult but totally evaded the issue. David doesn't care that an argument or question has been answered. He just waits for awhile and then repeats it again, hoping that everyone has forgotten.

 

 

 

[James DiEugenio]

Trejo 2.

I have a tendency to give some people too much credit.  Davey is a carnival barker across more than one platform.

Typical of those types to insult someone delivering important information. 

[Gary Murr]

17 hours ago, Robert Harris said:

17 hours ago, Gary Murr said:

Bob:

What evidence do you have that Lt. Alexander ever had possession of what you continue to maintain is a "bogus" receipt, duly prepared by Audrey Bell and signed, in turn, by Robert Nolan? Have you ever seen, or can you produce, another receipt from what in your opinion must be "thousands" that passed through the office from Lt. Alexander?

Gary, the evidence is that it was addressed to him. As you stated yourself,

The answer I contend is on the memorandum itself - the individual and entity to whom Audrey Bell originally and "normally" addressed the document and envelope - "Lt. Alexander, Crime Lab."

Just because the memorandum was addressed to Lt. Alexander does not, in my opinion, constitute proof of reception of this same document by Lt. Alexander and importantly the accompanying metallic residue. As Audrey Bell herself indicated, normal procedure would leave one with the assumption that acquisition of the document [and evidence] would have occurred had normal procedural routines been followed through to fruition. But  "normal procedure" did not rule this particular day and what should have occurred procedurally did not occur - was short-circuited through the process of intervention on the part of Bob Nolan. So I ask the question once again: What proof do you have that Lt. Alexander ever had possession of this specific document? Do you see anything on this document that confirms Alexander ever saw, handled, or read the document? Are his initials on this document - anywhere? Whose initials are on the document?

[Robert Harris]

14 hours ago, Gary Murr said:

Just because the memorandum was addressed to Lt. Alexander does not, in my opinion, constitute proof of reception of this same document by Lt. Alexander and importantly the accompanying metallic residue. As Audrey Bell herself indicated, normal procedure would leave one with the assumption that acquisition of the document [and evidence] would have occurred had normal procedural routines been followed through to fruition. But  "normal procedure" did not rule this particular day and what should have occurred procedurally did not occur - was short-circuited through the process of intervention on the part of Bob Nolan. So I ask the question once again: What proof do you have that Lt. Alexander ever had possession of this specific document? Do you see anything on this document that confirms Alexander ever saw, handled, or read the document? Are his initials on this document - anywhere? Whose initials are on the document?

I don't understand your theory. The deviation was passing the foreign body envelope to someone other than Alexander. But no one claimed that Nolan was given this receipt. Nolan in fact, never said he signed a receipt. But even if he had, why wouldn't it have been forwarded to Alexander?

What are you suggesting happened to it?

And BTW, what are your explanations for the statements of Wade and Nolan, regarding a nurse with a whole bullet that she claimed, came from Connally's gurney?

 

[James DiEugenio]

Bob:

 

You never answered Alberto's entering question:  Who do you think the nurse was?

He maps out three suspects and asks if you talked to any of them.

 

[David Von Pein]

Robert Harris said:

Nolan in fact, never said he signed a receipt.

But we know now that Nolan definitely DID sign a receipt. Gary Murr found it. You want to believe it's yet another piece of "bogus" evidence connected with this case. You are free to go down that path if you desire, but no reasonable person is likely to think that the FBI or DPD faked a document with the handwriting of three different people on it. (And Bobby Nolan's distinct "B" is telling me a lot, even if it tells you nothing.)

Face it, Robert Harris, your theory is wrong. Audrey Bell DID give an envelope to Bobby Nolan, and that envelope contained only FRAGMENTS of a bullet, not a whole bullet. And there's now TWO documents that corroborate that event---the hospital memorandum and CE2003.

Edited August 17, 2017 by David Von Pein