Mathias Baumann Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 The mythbusters demonstrate that a frozen gelatine bullet fired from a high-powered rifle at short range would only cause a very shallow wound. The relevant part starts at about 23:00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mathias Baumann said: The mythbusters demonstrate that a frozen gelatine bullet fired from a high-powered rifle at short range would only cause a very shallow wound. The relevant part starts at about 23:00. The CIA didn't use frozen gelatine bullets. https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/vol1/pdf/ChurchV1_6_Senseney.pdf From the Church Comm. testimony of CIA Director William Colby (pg 17) http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/vol1/pdf/ChurchV1_1_Colby.pdf <quote on> Mr. CHAIRMAN: Is it not true, too, that the effort not only involved not only designing a gun that could strike at a human target without knowledge of the person who had been struck, but the toxin itself would not appear in the autopsy? Mr. COLBY: Well, there was an attempt— Mr. CHAIRMAN: Or the dart. Mr. COLBY: Yes; so there was no way of perceiving that the target was hit. Mr. CHAIRMAN: As a murder instrument, that is about as efficient as you can get, is it not? Mr. COLBY: It is a weapon, a very serious weapon. <quote off> Edited September 22, 2018 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 The entry wound in the throat. Best explanation. From where and by whom in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 56 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: The CIA didn't use frozen gelatine bullets. https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/vol1/pdf/ChurchV1_6_Senseney.pdf From the Church Comm. testimony of CIA Director William Colby (pg 17) http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/vol1/pdf/ChurchV1_1_Colby.pdf <quote on> Mr. CHAIRMAN: Is it not true, too, that the effort not only involved not only designing a gun that could strike at a human target without knowledge of the person who had been struck, but the toxin itself would not appear in the autopsy? Mr. COLBY: Well, there was an attempt— Mr. CHAIRMAN: Or the dart. Mr. COLBY: Yes; so there was no way of perceiving that the target was hit. Mr. CHAIRMAN: As a murder instrument, that is about as efficient as you can get, is it not? Mr. COLBY: It is a weapon, a very serious weapon. <quote off> The Salandria quote on your page bears repeating often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Baumann Posted September 23, 2018 Author Share Posted September 23, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/vol1/pdf/ChurchV1_6_Senseney.pdf Quote The Chairman: Were you aware of the amount of shellfish toxin belonging to the CIA [...]? Shellfish toxin can cause what is called paralytic shellfish poisoning (PSP). Quote PSP is caused by potent neurotoxins that can pose a severe and urgent health threat. A typical progression of clinical signs and symptoms is outlined below.4 Onset of clinical signs typically begins between 30 minutes and 3 hours after ingestion of the contaminated food, but symptoms have been reported less than one minute after food consumption.7 The progression of paralysis may be rapid in severe cases. The intensity and progression of the symptoms are dependent on the type, dose, and concentration of the toxin ingested in the shellfish. The first symptom is often paresthesia (i.e., sensation of tingling or numbness) around the lips or mouth, which spreads to the face and neck. Other early symptoms may include tingling or numbness in the fingertips/toes; dizziness or a "floating" sensation; headache; diaphoresis (i.e., sweating) or excess saliva production. Gastrointestinal symptoms such as nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain may or may not occur. Typically, the next symptoms to develop are generalized paresthesia (i.e., numbness), descending paralysis/weakness of the extremities (i.e., arms and legs), and ataxia (i.e., lack of coordination/balance). Incoherent speech and dysphagia (e.g., difficulty swallowing) have also been reported. Individuals remain conscious and alert throughout. In severe cases, rapid progression to respiratory muscle paralysis and respiratory failure may occur. This can lead to respiratory arrest and death. Most deaths occur within 12 hours of ingestion. In mild cases, symptoms usually resolve completely within a few hours to a few days. Symptoms in individuals with moderate to severe illness resolve over two to three days. Individuals with severe PSP illness who survive beyond 24 to 48 hours usually recover without long-term complications.1, 2, 3, 5 Source: http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/programs/publichealth/oph_standards/docs/psp_chapter.pdf Could that explain Kennedy's grasping at his throat? Edited September 23, 2018 by Mathias Baumann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Baumann Posted September 24, 2018 Author Share Posted September 24, 2018 12 minutes ago, Rich Pope said: No. A hole in his trachea is what caused him grasping at his throat. You don't have to look for some James Bond type weapon when it comes to JFK's assassination. But in the Zapruder film it appears as if his hands never actually touch his throat. I think it was Robert Harris (but I could be wrong) who's argued that this was some kind of neurological reaction to being hit in the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Rich Pope said: No. JFK brought both fists to his throat while struggling to breath. He had no idea what was going on. His lack of movement was caused by a back brace he was wearing that day. He always wore a back brace. He always lacked movement? 1 hour ago, Rich Pope said: There was no neurological agent used in the assassination, no matter what anyone says. You don't know that, no matter what you say. 1 hour ago, Rich Pope said: Keep in mind most of these guys are just trying to sell books. The autopsists were trying to sell books? What "guys" are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 His arms look frozen to me, and his hands never reach his throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 Defensive posture. He holds his fists in a manner to prevent getting hit from the same location. Occam's Razor -- what's the most likely explanation for a man acting paralyzed? He's paralyzed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cross Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 30 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: Defensive posture. He holds his fists in a manner to prevent getting hit from the same location. Occam's Razor -- what's the most likely explanation for a man acting paralyzed? He's paralyzed. No one can be certain of anything being discussed in this thread. No certainty. Having said that, the frame pictured always seemed to me to be the back shot. Hands were coming up, back shot impacts, elbows raise. I'm not certain of that of course. Best guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Michael Cross said: No one can be certain of anything being discussed in this thread. No certainty. Agreed. 2 minutes ago, Michael Cross said: Having said that, the frame pictured always seemed to me to be the back shot. Hands were coming up, back shot impacts, elbows raise. His hands were coming up before "the back shot"? 2 minutes ago, Michael Cross said: I'm not certain of that of course. Best guess. Michael, my rule of thumb is to rely on the historical record. Secret Service SA Glenn Bennett wrote contemporaneous notes which are corroborated by the photographic and physical evidence. Bennett said he was looking to the front when he heard the first shot; the Willis 5 (Z202) photo shows him facing to the right in the follow-up car. He said he then turned to look at "the Boss"; Altgens 6 (Z255) shows his features blurred, consistent with movement. He said he saw JFK hit in the back "four inches down from the shoulder"; the bullet defects in JFK's clothes are four inches below the collars. The back shot occurred right before the head shot, Bennett stated. Contemporaneous written statement by a professional with 3 points of corroboration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cross Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Rich Pope said: Cliff, as I said I may be wrong. Likely even. But look at the height of JFK's right elbow. It's at least ear height. That's not a normal position, which is why I've thought it's a reaction to the force of the back shot. I don't have time to look at earlier frames right now to make the comparison. If I have time later I will, just to illustrate what I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 (edited) Edited September 24, 2018 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 On 9/22/2018 at 10:40 AM, Paul Brancato said: The entry wound in the throat. Best explanation. From where and by whom in your opinion? 22 hollow point from the front. No exit when shooting a rabbit, squirrel, or human throat. Bullet mushrooms and shards disperse from the edges. Shuts him up regarding what happens next. Pre autopsy x-ray. Pre autopsy surgery to remove bullet and fragments from entry wound and ensuing tracheostomy (along with other bullets/fragments elsewhere?). Open his eyes back up, somehow, the Priest in Dallas said they were closed. Bingo, you have the death stare photo with the butchered throat. Still wish Bob Prudhome was around to analyze the ballistics. I trusted his judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: Never noticed the left hand pulling the tie. Edited September 25, 2018 by Paul Brancato Add something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now