Jake Hammond Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: SS SA Bennett didn't say. The only way there'd be no visible reaction to the back shot would be if JFK were paralyzed. Cory still hasn't answered but he was trying to refute the single shot theory by asking about whiplash, my question of course was to ask if there was no back shot then ? which he still hasn't replied to because he realises his mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Just now, Jake Hammond said: No, I never said anything f the kind, the two both raised up slightly as the president moved around. Exactly! Casual body movement induces fractions of an inch of clothing fabric to "ease." I'm sure you know that "ease" is the term of art in clothing design for clothing bunch. Just now, Jake Hammond said: This is not a theory it is evidenced in the Croft Photo, also in the Croft photo you can see the shirt over the jacket collar by around 0.5", do you have a specific aversion to the CRoft photo ? Do you know the image I mean ? 0.5" is exactly correct! Very good! The shirt collar is 1.75" from the lower margin to the upper margin; the jacket collar is 1.25". On Houston St the jacket collar was elevated a bit more than 0.5" -- probably 0.75". When the jacket collar dropped the jacket fabric underneath the collar didn't drop -- and thus we have a fraction of an inch jacket fold visible in all the Elm St. photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Hammond Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 (edited) Yes, at last we agree. However 'Ease ' is the extra fabric deliberately inserted into certain areas to allow movement . Not quite the same as a gathering of material. Edited December 15, 2018 by Jake Hammond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said: Yes, at last we agree. The bullet hole in the jacket is 4.125" below the bottom of the collar. The bullet hole in the shirt is 4" below the bottom of the collar. When JFK was shot in the back circa Z270 the jacket was elevated 1/8 of an inch. The shirt wasn't elevted at all. Jake, take a look at the shirt fabric atop your right shoulderline -- then casually raise your right hand and wave. Observe the fabric of your shirt indent along your right shoulder-line as the fabric eases horizontally. It's a universal phenomenon. Edited December 15, 2018 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Hammond Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 However 'Ease ' is the extra fabric deliberately inserted into certain areas to allow movement . Not quite the same as a gathering of material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Hammond Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Cliff Varnell said: The bullet hole in the jacket is 4.125" below the bottom of the collar. The bullet hole in the shirt is 4" below the bottom of the collar. When JFK was shot in the back circa Z270 the jacket was elevated 1/8 of an inch. The shirt wasn't elevted at all. Jake, take a look at the shirt fabric atop your right shoulderline -- then casually raise your right hand and wave. Observe the fabric of your shirt indent along your right shoulder-line as the fabric eases horizontally. It's a universal phenomenon. You now seem to be arguing my point. The bunching of the jacket and shirt, the curvature of the shoulder and the slouch forward combine to create a much greater change in the relative point of the holes in clothing to the hole on the body and its trajectory to the exit wound. I am adding lines now to my images on the mannequin to help aid this debate. I'll leave it now until I can upload more images at some point and start a new thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said: However 'Ease ' is the extra fabric deliberately inserted into certain areas to allow movement . Not quite the same as a gathering of material. Factually incorrect. "Ease" refers to any movement of the fabric. All clothing is designed to allow movement, Jake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said: You now seem to be arguing my point. The bunching of the jacket and shirt, There was no bunching of the shirt. Quote the curvature of the shoulder and the slouch forward combine to create a much greater change in the relative point of the holes in clothing to the hole on the body and its trajectory to the exit wound. What slouch? What curvature of the shoulder? You have curvature of the shoulder so why can't you replicate your claims? Quote I am adding lines now to my images on the mannequin to help aid this debate. There is no debate. You're just making stuff up. Edited December 15, 2018 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 The Law of Gravity was in effect on 11/22/63. The jacket collar dropped on Houston St. and the fraction of an inch jacket fold continued to drop slightly until JFK was shot in the back. The jacket was elevated 1/8 of an inch, not multiple inches. Quit the exaggerations, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Hammond Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 So the Croft image is photoshopped ? wikipedia , first line " In sewing and patternmaking, ease is the amount of room a garment allows the wearer beyond the measurements of their body.' It is the movement engineered in by the cut, NOT the movement of the fabric. Ease is not an adjective in this usage. This is my job Cliff. Are you saying he wasn't slouching forward ? Are you saying shoulders don't have curvature ? When i get some image capacity back I will start a new thread where I will welcome the weaponization of your specialist subject and debate but having read your blurb, being told about terminology in my own trade ( you could have just googled it to avoid embarrassing yourself) and had you suggest that kennedy was sitting up straight with no crease or bunching to the shirt I can only say goodbye for tonight at least. Keep your eyes peeled for my anti weapon thread with annotated images coming shortly I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said: So the Croft image is photoshopped ? Excuse me? You're making stuff up again. Quote wikipedia , first line " In sewing and patternmaking, ease is the amount of room a garment allows the wearer beyond the measurements of their body.' It is the movement engineered in by the cut, NOT the movement of the fabric. In clothing design it's used as both a verb and a noun. There is vertical ease, horizontal ease, and diagonal ease. There is also "gross ease" and "normal ease." Gross ease results from exaggerated body movements; normal ease results from casual body movements. Gross ease involves more than an inch of fabric; normal ease only involves fractions of an inch of clothing fabric. I'm related to a 2-time winner of the LA Drama Critics Circle Award for Costume Design. Quote Ease is not an adjective in this usage. This is my job Cliff. Ease is both a verb and a noun in clothing design. Quote Are you saying he wasn't slouching forward ? Are you saying shoulders don't have curvature ? When i get some image capacity back I will start a new thread where I will welcome the weaponization of your specialist subject and debate but having read your blurb, being told about terminology in my own trade ( you could have just googled it to avoid embarrassing yourself) and had you suggest that kennedy was sitting up straight with no crease or bunching to the shirt I can only say goodbye for tonight at least. Keep your eyes peeled for my anti weapon thread with annotated images coming shortly I hope. You're dead wrong about the use of the word "ease" in clothing design. Edited December 15, 2018 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 7 hours ago, Lance Payette said: You have to spell l-i-a-r-s like that or the system deletes it, No. If the word is plural---liars----it shows up fine. It's only xxxx'ed out if the word is used in its singular form----xxxx. Very odd. And oh so silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 (edited) The "Bunching Up" Of JFK's Clothing (aka: DVP Vs. "The Weaponizer")..... http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/12/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-862.html Edited December 15, 2018 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Hammond Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Quote In clothing design it's used as both a verb and a noun. There is vertical ease, horizontal ease, and diagonal ease. There is also "gross ease" and "normal ease." Gross ease results from exaggerated body movements; normal ease results from casual body movements. Gross ease involves more than an inch of fabric; normal ease only induces fractions of an inch of clothing fagbric. I'm related to a 2-time winner of the LA Drama Critics Circle Award for Costume Design. Did you not read the wikipedia page ? Ease is solely the description of the excess of material in a given area of fabric allowing movement . More specifically the difference between the body measurement and the measurement of the clothing. When I speak to the lady making a waistcoat about a customer who feels restricted under the armpit by a stock model she says " I'll add half an inch of ease into the armhole then for his order". She doesn't say " oh its fine there'll be loads of gross ease when he starts moving around". Your complete fabrication about the term 'ease' and failure to read wikipedia or respect another man's trade have really exposed you here. I really will sign off now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 1 minute ago, David Von Pein said: The "Bunching Up" Of JFK's Clothing (aka: DVP Vs. "The Weaponizer")..... http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/12/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-862.html David, you admit the jacket was elevated "a little bit" in Croft. You claim that 2 inches of JFK's jacket and 2 inches of his shirt were elevated entirely above the top of his back without pushing up on his jacket collar. It's impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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