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Guest Stephen Turner

Three Tramps.

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Just to throw another comparison into the mix, the Dealey Plaza man does appear to have a similar stance/gait to Lansdale (on the left). There also seems to be strong similarities in body shape.

FWIW.

James

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Here is a comparison shot of the Lansdale figure and the man in the photo you refer to.

Greg,

That's not the photo I referred to. The photo is on p. 495 of the book Pictures of the Pain. I would post it but I don't have a scanner.

Ron

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That's not the photo I referred to. The photo is on p. 495 of the book Pictures of the Pain. I would post it but I don't have a scanner. (Ron Ecker)

Is this the one you refer to, Ron? I take it the possible Lansdale figure is the man on the far left?

James

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I have made some observations and don't feel that the tramps were actually under arrest, but instead were being escorted out of there. I also don't feel that back cop, is actually a cop. Look at the bottom of his pants legs, how short the pants are. Plus, the way they are carrying their weapons. Although I believe one of them was actualy a cop. I also don't feel that the so-called old-man tramp is actually an old man.

Chauncey Holt's daughter Karyn, is a friend of mine. She told me that even though the three guys have always been referred to as tramps, they were actually intended to be railroad workers.

Dixie

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I am convinced Ron is right. IMO, Prouty's credibility is only about a fraction above Richard Helm's. And as Ron points out, there's not even a facial shot of the so-called Lansdale look-alike.

Besides the problems Ron points out, as I recall Prouty had also advanced several other strange things, and had become associated with some far-out and racist organizations.

Also, if Lansdale was otherwise in Texas, there are certainly innocent explanations for his presence in Dealey Plaza other than a role in the conspiracy. On the other hand, being highly involved in the administration, had he in fact witnessed the assassination one would have expected him to present himself as a witness.

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James,

Yes, thanks, that's the man. He looks like he could possibly be the same man, walking back the other way, and still by his lonesome.

Ron

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I am convinced Ron is right.  IMO, Prouty's credibility is only about a fraction above Richard Helm's.  And as Ron points out, there's not even a facial shot of the so-called Lansdale look-alike.

To impugn Prouty's credibility is to diminish one's own.

Jack :ice

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Just to throw another comparison into the mix, the Dealey Plaza man does appear to have a similar stance/gait to Lansdale (on the left). There also seems to be strong similarities in body shape.

FWIW.

James

************

Hi James:

Here is another from my folders..to add to your collection, a photo of Gen.Lansdale, that I believe is a good comparison..the lankiness, and showing the gait of his stance..also his hair does seem to be of the same style and length..Also I recall that Colonel Prouty also stated he recognised the ring..and wasn't there something about the twist of the hand (not sure)??? as well as others noting the ring ? but I cannot recall any details right now.. :ice

Hi Ron:

I believe the timing may be out re the comparison of the man in the photo taken by Murray approximately within the next 20 minutes after the assassination he states, in "POTP"..pages 494..495.....of the photo of the dirt Street of Elm, that went towards the front door of the TSBD..and Houston St........where we see your man.( he also seems to not have the bearing (military?) of the man they call Gen.Lansdale, ( in the Tramps photo) ( your man seems to slump ;) )...and...

The series of Tramps photos were taken sometime after 2.19 pm..page 550 "POTP"..by Smith, Beers and Allen..

So unless he walked down towards the TSBD and Houston at approximately

ten to one for Murray to photograph him....and then turned around and walked back again in the other direction, approximately 2.19 pm...?? well it is possible..but I am wondering if he perhaps had been one of the many to have already checked out the Knoll..parking lot..and was simply heading home ..??....... B)

Edited by Bernice Moore

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To Jack,

With all due respect, anyone who associates with crackpot organizations, of either the left or right, loses all his or her credibility, in my opinion. For one thing it demonstrates the person's mind is colored by irrational prejudices. (Of course I love Sean Hamity's references to Sen. Robert KKK Byrd.)

Now sorry but I feel led to insert a little perspective on why I became a Republican before I was a teen-ager. When I was at a formative age, I "liked Ike" as President. To me, the Democrat Party consisted of two parts: the Southern Democrats, who were closely aligned with the KKK and Bull Connors and all the other terrible Southern racists (ten to one the racists who killed Medgar Evans and who bombed the church killing the young girls were Democrats); and the Northern Democrats who were associated with the mob and corrupt big city machines such as the Daley organization. Obviously there were many "good" Democrats but who would want to be associated with a party the success of which depended on an unholy alliance consisting in large part of the KKK, the Mob and the Daley machine? And while the big city machines certainly involved illegal activities, the KKK and the Mob were more than illegal: they were, to me, the very epitome of evil.

Sorry about the digression, but back to Prouty:

Advancing a theory of Mossad involvement in the assassination may not necessarily equate to anti-Semitism, but the organization with which Prouty associated himself was definitely nuttily anti-Semitic, disqualifying him, in my opinion, from any iota or respect or credence.

Edited by Tim Gratz

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That's not the photo I referred to. The photo is on p. 495 of the book Pictures of the Pain. I would post it but I don't have a scanner. (Ron Ecker)

Is this the one you refer to, Ron? I take it the possible Lansdale figure is the man on the far left?

James

In this photograph one can see clearly that the western entrance to the TSBD, through the shipping department, was wide open. I've noticed this before in some of the films. Even so, I don't remember a single person testifying that that door was ever closed or blocked off. When Billy Lovelady discussed this door in his WC testimony it was clear the WC counsel--was it Belin?--had no idea this door existed, and the discussion quickly changed course. Here was an effective escape route. Walk right out the shipping department into the crowd. A year or so ago I read the WC testimony of every DPD officer who went to the building, and I don't remember one of them discussing this door. If anyone has better pictures of it, or if anyone knows of testimony indicating this escape route was blocked off, I'd appreciate it.

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Guest Stephen Turner   
Guest Stephen Turner

Thank you Ladies & Gents, of the Forum..

This is just the responce I had hoped for when I posted the thread. I belive this

one issue stands as a metaphor for the entire case, & shows newcomers just how

tangled a web it is.

I will however repete the two questions I asked at the begining, for those who

think the tramps had a role in the assassination.

1,What was that role. 2, Under whose orders where they acting.

I realise im asking for the "Moon" but best guess will be a start.

Steve.

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Prouty's "Lansdale" is wearing glasses.

That's not a very good argument for it being Lansdale, who doesn't wear glasses in any photo I've seen of him. His autobiography contains 16 pages of photos. He wears glasses in none of them.

To impugn Prouty's credibility is to diminish one's own.

You want more? After his ARRB interview, Prouty sent a letter to the ARRB just to dig his credibility hole a little deeper. The apparent intent was to finger Richard Nixon for the assassination even if it meant lying to do it.

Prouty wrote that the ARRB should examine the Nixon Watergate tapes "as sources of evidence to determine who killed JFK and more importantly 'Why' he was killed." Prouty then tells the ARRB that Nixon was in Dallas "with his PEPSICO associates and did not leave Dallas until well after JFK's death that afternoon. His associates are clear on that point."

Who were the associates who made it clear that Nixon did not leave Dallas until after the assassination, contrary to every account I'm aware of? Prouty doesn't name one. It was just another totally unsubstantiated Prouty claim spoken as gospel.

Ron

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In my opinion (just guessing, because nobody knows):

1. Their operational role was unknown, but I doubt that they

were shooters. Shooters would have had an escape plan

better than getting on an obvious and ineffective train

escape TOGETHER. Prouty thought that Conein plans always

included MISDIRECTION (false trails). That may have

been their role. They possibly did not even know what

their actual role was. They could have even been alternate

"patsies" if needed. I doubt the patsy theory, since I believe

Hunt was one of the tramps. Hunt was not a shooter, but

likely overseeing some aspect of operations. The best

escape plan for shooters would have been:

...Do not run or attract attention.

...Hide/abandon weapons (car trunk best).

...avoid suspicious activities (like getting on train).

...Be well dressed (not a suspicious tramp).

...Individually blend into spectators/crowd quickly.

...Have false ID (secret service?) if needed.

2. Operational aspects were organized by "rogue" CIA agents

Phillips, Hunt, Lansdale and Conein (plus others) on a need-to-

know basis.

Jack :o

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With all due respect, anyone who associates with crackpot organizations, of either the left or right, loses all his or her credibility, in my opinion.  For one thing it demonstrates the person's mind is colored by irrational prejudices.  (Of course I love Sean Hamity's references to Sen. Robert KKK Byrd.)

A couple of years ago I had an email from Robert Byrd complaining about my page on him. He wanted me to remove the following:

A strong opponent of African American civil rights, Byrd was an advocate of the Ku Klux Klan. In 1946 Byrd announced that: "The Ku Klux Klan is needed today as never before and I am anxious to see its rebirth in West Virginia".

Not that it was not true. He just did not want people to be reminded of his racist past.

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