Guest Robert Morrow Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Jim, Give us the evidence that "Farewell to America" was a disinfo effort by James Angleton to throw off Jim Garrison. I have heard other theories that it might be a product of French intelligence or Russian intelligence as a way of helping Robert Kennedy in the 1968 presidential campaign. The Russian media have been saying it was the Texas oil barons who killed JFK since in real time back in 1963-64. Pravda was saying it again as late as 2007. And then their is that 12/1/66 memo by Hoover to LBJ stating that and FBI source (probably electronic surveillance of the KGB Residency in NYC) had picked up communication from KGB headquarters that they were in possession *now* (Sept, 1965) that Lyndon Johnson had orchestrated the JFK assassination. So please tell us exactly who produced Farewell to America and why they did it. And please tell us how you think James Angleton was involved in this effort? Didn't J. Edgar Hoover try to stop this book from entering America. Why would Hoover try to do that if it was such a disinformation effort? The FBI and CIA certainly coordinated about covering up everything else. I am more inclined to believe that US intelligence was killing JFK at the behest of the shadow government of Texas oil, LBJ and perhaps the Rockefellers knowing and approving. Edited March 6, 2012 by Robert Morrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robert Morrow Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Bob: What do you have a tin ear? You were right there when I made that presentation at Lancer. And i was very specific in how it was done. ANd I interviewed Ivon, Weisberg and reviewed the investigation by Garrison, which concluded that Hepburn was a shell front for Vosjoli and his team of writers. IF you missed all that, then you did not want to hear it. Maybe because it lacked George Bush and sex. When people don't learn anything even after they are repeatedly exposed to good information, I mean, sheesh. Jim, I heard your presentation at JFK Lancer 2010. I did not memorize it. I just don't think James Angleton is going to be putting out stuff that accurately summarizes the JFK assassination. So you mean Philippe Thyraud de Vosjoli was writing "Farewell America" at the behest of James Angleton in order to frame Texas oil men such as H.L. Hunt who in 1968 was still alive and a close ally of the then President Lyndon Johnson? So you think Angleton is was using Farewell America to frame one of LBJ's closest supporters? Philippe Thyraud de Vosjoli: http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/diary/devosjoli.htm And if "Farewell America" was such a disinfo effort then why would the FBI go to great lengths to prevent its importation into the USA - literally stopping it at the border? This is the same FBI run by the same director who was critical to the cover up of the JFK assassination. I think for that very reason - official censorship - it must be a worthy read. Here is an interesting review of "Farewell America" on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Farewell-America-Plot-Kill-JFK/product-reviews/1883955327/ref=cm_rdphist_5?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addFiveStar "I heard Bill Turner, who wrote the Introduction, speak at the COPA conference in Dallas a few weeks ago on JFK. I bought this book there and finished it in three days. It is an amazing story, and I think the most credible I have seen on the entire subject--partly because it was written in the 1960s by people who seemed to know what they were talking about. The author on the book is named James Hepburn, but he was a fictitious person. The real authors turned out to be French Intelligence officers working for De Gaulle, with Kennedy people helping (including Daniel Patrick Moyahan, the future senator from New York). Turner's introduction is long and sets up the whole scenario about the book's history, etc. That alone was worth the price. According to Turner, Farewell America was originally printed in France under a different title and did well in Europe, but according to Turner, copies were seized in Canada and the book was largely banned or suppressed from American readers. The entire story is amazing, discussing the ties between corporate and banking interests, American intelligence, and international oil companies and Mafia chieftains all against President Kennedy and many of his policies. According to this book, he was killed by a combination of these organizations so that they could bring an end to the economic and social changes JFK stood for. I think the book called it "the committee." The book has a lot of detail that is fascinating, with great footnotes, and some stuff that does not seem tied into all this, and not that interesting. Overall, I recommend this book strongly to anyone interested in JFK. I had heard about this book for a long time and could never find a copy. It is a credible look at what probably happened to Kennedy. Turner is also the author of Rearview Mirror, his account of life in the FBI. That is a good book too, and I recommend that as well. (He is also a good speaker, so if you get a chance to hear him, don't miss it)." Edited March 6, 2012 by Robert Morrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robert Morrow Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) "Farewell America" (the book) is covered well in William Turner's excellent book: "Rearview Mirror: Looking Back at the FBI, the CIA and Other Tails" It is covered on pp. xiii, 114-131. http://www.amazon.com/Rearview-Mirror-Looking-Other-Tails/dp/1883955211/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1331006989&sr=1-1 William Turner's book is fabulous. I highly recommend it! William Turner also has an excellent essay on "Farewell America" in the foreward of the 2002 edition of the book "Farewell America:" http://www.amazon.com/Farewell-America-Plot-Kill-JFK/dp/1883955327/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1331011849&sr=1-1 Turner says the book was basically a product of French and Russian intelligence as a way of telling the truth about the JFK assassination and also helping the candidacy of Robert Kennedy at the same time. The principal sources of the book apparently were Andre Ducet, the chief of the French secret service, Interpol, and Phillipe Vosjoly (a French petroleum espionage agent in the USA). French President Charles de Gaulle, who was a fan of John Kennedy, was a supporter of this project. It also appears that Kennedy insiders gave the project a report that Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan did for the Kennedys on whether Jimmy Hoffa or the Secret Service were involved in the JFK assassination. I must say that any James Angleton connection to Phillipe Vosjoly is interesting, but there appears to be absolutely ZERO evidence that James Angleton or the CIA were behind the publication of this book. Afterall, Hoover and the FBI did everything they could to prevent its entry into America. The book was a bestseller in Europe. I think the book "Farewell America" is very accurate in its analysis of the JFK assassination. The only thing the book did not do specfically was blame Lyndon Johnson for the JFK assassination explicitly. But it points the finger at one of LBJ's very closest supporters H.L. Hunt. Edited March 6, 2012 by Robert Morrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 You know the worst thing about this is what the clown Reitzes says. That this disinfo piece is based upon unsubstantiated stuff in Garrison's files. What goofiness. If you read the later versions of this ever evolving piece of BS, you will see that THERE ARE NO SPECIFIC REFERENCES to anything in Garrison's files..... .....See, when I talked about this at Lancer a couple of years ago,I analyzed the reason detre for the Torbitt document. The idea was to keep a veneer of the Garrison inquiry but to run it off in about 11 different directions simultaneously that ultimately leads nowhere. I mean does anyone really think the assassination was carried out through Division FIve of the FBI? That is WIlliam Sullivan and Domestic Intelligence? No. There simply is no evidence for that. But that is one of the main theses of the tract. What these guys did was to drop in things like Bloomfiled, ACC, Permindex, NASA etc, that all first surfaced during the Garrison inquiry. They then added in things like the Mafia, Marcello, for God's sakes even Roy Cohn. And let us not forget about Osborne and his band of Mexican assassins at Murchison's. But the point is, someone like Bill Davy boils this all down and then allows it to make sense by separating the wheat from the chaff. See Garrison was uncovering a whole new subterranean world that had never been exposed before, which the WC tried to cover up. Therefore, his discoveries, taken in isolation,and each strand given equal importance, will confuse. Especially when that is the design. As it was here. Farewell America, another disinfo piece is different in its intent. That was was aimed at a specific target. To implicate the Texas oil guys on that mythological Committee. This one we have good evidence was designed by Angleton and aimed directly at Garrison to confuse him. Torbitt came after Garrison and was meant to spin the research community in nine different directions, which it did. But if you read Torbitt closely, you will see that they leave one suspect out: the CIA. This is a dead giveaway since this was Garrison's primary target. The idea was to fake Garrison's files and some of his discoveries to spin away from Garrison's prime suspect. Well Jim, while you're debunking, I am and have been finding unique parallels to Torbitt described details, in the real world. Lately, the trail has led to the CIA's William Butts Macomber, Jr. I won't bore you with the details here, but I've laid it all out. in the "George de Mohrenschildt and George H. W. Bush" thread: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13941&view=findpost&p=245785 The post at this link is a prequel to the one at the link above: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18578&view=findpost&p=242309 ....I imagine I'll be waiting quite a long time for a reply to this from Bush nephew, John Ellis, but, hey, he postured as if he is approachable and sincere. After I sent the email displayed below, I discovered even more information linking Macomber, Jr.'s brother, John, to the advertising agency Byfield, Jr. was a V.P. at.: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14879&view=findpost&p=243975 The Ellington Agency's largest account was Celanese Corp., a Corp. founded by a member of the King Ranch family and with longtime relations with its future CEO, John D. Macomber when he was a McKinsey & Co. employee for 19 years. William J. Casey wrote of his intimate knowledge of the top secret Sussex operation in which both Byfield, Jr. and Macomber's brother, William, were assigned by OSS.... in the "Asking All Members for Collaborative Research In A Race Against Time" thread: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14879&view=findpost&p=236772 http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14879&view=findpost&p=241714 http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14879&view=findpost&p=243975 http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14879&view=findpost&p=244077 in the "Suite BF Group" thread: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2868&view=findpost&p=243765 http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2868&view=findpost&p=243781 in the "CIA Foundations" thread: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18657&view=findpost&p=244149 Maurice PHILIPPS is a member of this forum but has been inactive, not logging in here since the same month as his last blog post, 17 months ago. : Friday, October 15, 2010 http://somesecretsforyou.blogspot.com/ http://somesecretsforyou.blogspot.com/2006_01_01_archive.htmlSaturday, January 21, 2006 ....NB: Bonanno’s implication in the JFK assassination is not commonly accepted. In fact, excepted for a mention from David Copeland (alias William Torbitt) in his Nomenclature of an Assassination Cabal, Bonanno’s name is rarely seen in the JFK assassination literature. Interestingly enough, in this manuscript, Bonanno is named as an associate of Major Louis Mortimer Bloomfield, a Montreal lawyer that was Clay Shaw’s associate in Permindex and the Centro Mondiale Commerciale. And lot more about Bloomfield will be said in this blog… Ironically, this was reported more than 42 years ago, back when Ron Kessler was a journalist and not a right wing flak. The lower part of the middle column ties Bonanno in with Garfinkle and his longtime counsel, Roy Cohn. :Ancorp Unit Drops Village Voice at Stands; Paper Refuses to yield Wholesale Franchise Wall Street Journal - Oct 27, 1969 Mr. McGblloqgh couldn't be reached for comment last week, but Mr. Garfinkle ... Island was sold in 198B to Salvatore Bonanno. currently under indictment on .... So, why is the following "stuff" interesting and relevant? Could it be because, in addition to being linked to William and John Macomber, Ernest Byfield, Jr. and his father, for 15 years, cultivated and promoted the 1960 "mob hire" of Henry Crown, Patrick Hoy. Byfield's mother rented the Glen Ora estate to JFK. Byfield was the best man in the wedding of William HG Fitzgerald. When Fitzgerald died in 2006, his obit described him as the senior Knight of Malta in the U.S. He was GHW Bush's ambassador to Ireland. An usher in that same Fitzgerald wedding, Oliver W. Hammonds became an author/expert on the oil depletion allowance and was accountant for and a fellow director of Jack Crichton's Arabian Shield Corp. Bush family chum, Robert Macaulay, founder of Americares, was as close to SMOM tycoons Jack Dempsey of Grief Bros. and Peter Grace of WR Grace than anyone. The daughter of the Harvard endowment fund savior of Bush Jr. and Harken Energy, Robert G. Stone, Jr. married William HG Fitzgerald's son, Desmond. Stone married the daughter of Godfrey Stillma Rockefeller. Godfrey's son, Godfrey A. Rockefeller, went to work for Bell Helicopter in Dallas in 1956. Crown's son, Lester, has been married to the sister of G. David Schine since 1950. Jim DiEugenio, you ask what Roy Cohn has to do with any of this? You even have to ask? CNN has been reporting on second shooter acoustic evidence in the RFK assassination at the Schine's Ambassador Hotel as recently as a day or two ago. I don't make any of the above, or what follows this sentence, up, Jim. I simply follow it wherever it leads. How about you? (Bill Bonanno was the son of Joe Bonanno and is the "Salvatore Bonanno" named in the above WSJ, Oct., 1969 article) http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&q=mafia+bonanno+dr.+jim+laws The Last Testament of Bill Bonanno: The Final Secrets of a Life in the Mafia - Page 5 Bill Bonanno, Gary B. Abromovitz - True Crime - 2011 - 368 pages Joe Bonanno being inducted into the Order of the Knights of Malta of Saint John of Jerusalem on January 21, 2000. From left to right: me, Dr. Jim Laws, Supreme Commander of the Knights of Malta of Saint John of Jerusalem, ... Modern Day "Knights" Help Needy Worldwide - CBS News http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500202_162-2666759.html Feb 11, 2009 – The Early Show: Modern Day "Knights" Help Needy Worldwide - Ed Artis, Jim Laws Circle Globe, Aiding Poor In Remote, Hostile Places Ed Artis, ... He and Laws met in 1993 in Moscos, where Artis became a Knight of Malta, http://infrakshun.blogspot.com/2011/04/conmen-and-cointelpro-part-iv.html Tuesday, April 5, 2011 Conmen and CoIntelpro Part IV Knights in White Satin ....Most interesting of all was a connection with the supportive presence of Knightsbridge Inc., which according to its website was: “Founded in August 1995 by several members of a self-styled US Priory of the Knights of Malta and OSMTH TEMPLAR Knights for the specific purpose of providing an independent vehicle through which focused international and domestic humanitarian assistance and medical relief programs could be organized.”1 Plaintiffs asked for clarification regarding the relationship between the organizations with no response forthcoming. Some of the articles and descriptions of Sir Edward Artis Chairman of Knightsbridge International describe his exploits in almost saintly terms including what he terms his penchant for “high Adventure.” Clearly, he enjoys the attention and limelight his chivalrous exploits provide and to which, it seems, he is at pains to cultivate. ... ....In almost every op-ed photo you will find Artis with a stethoscope to the fore, pressed earnestly against a refugee or natural disaster victim. Although Sir - or Dr. Artis - certainly puts some of his money where his mouth is and travels incessantly to oversee his worthy projects there might be a problem with his fundraising and stethoscope roles. He is the recipient of the Silver Star, the Bronze Star, and numerous other US Military medals for Valour, Bravery, and Courage under fire in Vietnam and the Dominican Republic. As well as a medic in Vietnam in 1972 he claims to have been a Green Beret, a Navy SEAL, and an Airborne Paratrooper. Some have claimed that these were faked pointing to the federal felony law under USC Section 18 of the United States Code, and a felony to solicit donations for his aid organization wearing fake regalia. The PhD was legitimately bought online for $3,500 whereas the Knighthood is fake, as is the Vatican passport. One wonders why such a man so decorated would consider the latter as worthy of Chivalric principles. We begin to get the idea that Artis either has delusions of grandeur or that he is using cover for something quite different. In response to further media outpourings of Artis walking on water the following report appeared in November 2004: Without in any way denigrating whatever laudable humanitarian works it has undertaken, we only wish to place on record that Knightsbridge International and its chair have no official connection now or ever with the Sovereign Order of St. John of Jerusalem, Rhodes and of Malta, more popularly known for more than 400 years as the Sovereign Order of Malta, whose headquarters or Grand Magistry is in Rome. LEOCADIO DE ASIS, president, Grand Cross of Magistral Grace, Sovereign Military Order of Malta, Pius XII Catholic Center, United Nations Avenue, Manila. 3 In the US there has been indiscriminate use and abuse of the term: “Order of Knighthood.” Awards and decorations for valour and meritorious service are one thing, but there is no legal provision for orders of knighthood. Chivalric bodies like the Knights of Malta or the orders of St. John are treated as private associations and registered with the state in which the headquarters reside. It comes as no surprise, that in Artis’s case, a quick hop across to the Russian Knights of Malta priory in 1993 to obtain a Knighthood was a done deal. The Knights of Malta are chock full of the neo-conservative Catholic Elite with historical and modern day associations with Opus Dei which in turn have considerable links to neo-con agendas and the establishment of a ‘New Evangelization.’4 Malta knighthoods are awarded to a great deal of high flyers that are part of the military and intelligence community. For instance, the late CIA director William Casey was a Knight of Malta. Former NATO General and US Secretary of State Alexander Haig and former Deputy Director of the CIA General Vernon Walters were Malta Knights. Reinhard Gehlen, the former Nazi intelligence expert and Psyops guru, remains the most colourful if not the most ironic Knight of Malta. In summary, TKM are a occult-fascist organisation, a Jesuit military order of the Catholic Church and therefore with an allegiance to Roman Catholic, papal influence. Although this is a global affair, a particular interest lies in both Latin America and Africa with historic affiliations to freemasonry arising from ex-Nazis and P2 lodge fascists. Its bias is toward a distinctly European elite with strong ties to the unaccountable Bilderberg group.... ....The need for thrills and romanticism tends to endanger lives. According to Artis: “By example, act and deed each of us can make a difference.” Indeed. It starts from the basic precept of being transparent and truthful concerning our professed qualifications and experience which Artis seems at the very least, to have embellished. Questions also need to be asked about Artis and his Knightsbridge International and the solicitation of funds based on fraudulent credentials. His involvement with the Jack Idemas case is another indication Artis is not who he says he is. Artis met Idema in Afghanistan in late 2001 and later tried to warn the government and media organizations that Idema was up to some serious naughtiness. Artis having been cultivated by the neo-con Knights of Malta crew as the whiter than white Catholic crusader was directed to shop Idema and to put him out of action as a loose cannon, which he was in one sense, but it was not to the fact that he was failing in his duties as a counter-terrorism operative in Iraq, but because he very likely tracked CIA assets that the US government wanted to keep in place to continue the “insurgent attacks.” That Osama was likely dead and much of the smokescreen of neo-con operations would be discovered by one of their own, could not be allowed to happen. 5 Artis, as Catholic Knight with a much vaunted mission, may have been served up to place Idema in a suitably bad light in order to deflect attention away from the US covert role. A nest of religious and political vipers could well be steering more than one of its brood around several strategies at once. Meanwhile, Idema remains conveniently out of sight in an Afghan jail. http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/knightsbridge-international IN THE NEWS Knightsbridge International Independent Lens . Film Topics . International | PBS http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/international.html Ed Artis, James Laws and Walt Ratterman inspire through deeds not words, .... http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/adn/obituary.aspx?n=walter-ratterman&pid=139692184 Walter "Walt" John Ratterman died unexpectedly Tuesday, Jan. 12, 2010, at the Hotel Montana in Port-au-Prince, Haiti, during the devastating earthquake. Walt was 57.... ....From 1999-present, Walt was a member of the Knights of Malta for Knightsbridge International. In 2004, he was knighted, making him Sir Walt Ratterman. In 2003, he was commissioned a colonel by the Honorable Order of the Kentucky Colonels. Outside of his philanthropy work, Walt enjoyed playing the piano, bike riding, and being an avid reader, always reading books from the countries he's visited. Most of all, Walt enjoyed spending time with his friends and family. http://www.cjr.org/fiftieth_anniversary/tin_soldier.php?page=all&print=true Tin Soldier An American Vigilante In Afghanistan, Using the Press for Profit and Glow By Mariah Blake ....“The media saw this outfitted, gregarious, apparently knowing guy, and they didn’t check him out,” says Ed Artis, chairman and founder of the humanitarian organization Knightsbridge International, who met Idema in Afghanistan in late 2001 and later tried to warn the government and media organizations that Idema was misrepresenting himself. “They ran story after story that furthered the cachet of a self-serving, self-aggrandizing criminal.” Jonathan Idema - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Idema In December 2001, Edward Artis, director of Knightsbridge, wrote to U.S. Army Special .... with entering the country illegally, running a private prison, and torture. Jonathan Idema, Con Man and Afghan Bounty Hunter, Dies at 55 ... http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/30/world/asia/jonathan-idema-con-man-and-afghan-bounty-hunter-dies-at-55.html?pagewanted=all Jan 29, 2012 – Mr. Idema gained notoriety in post-invasion Afghanistan as a swaggering hunter of terrorists, then ignominy when he was imprisoned for taking ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Caraballo Edward Caraballo (born c. 1961) is an American videographer and investigative photojournalist, specializing in covert photography. He was arrested in Afghanistan in 2004 while documenting the exploits of a vigilante group led by U.S. mercenary Jonathan "Jack" Idema..... Huh? What just happened? Tommy....explain it to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) It is a small. small, world! On 22 November, 1963, Roy Cohn's NYC transit line partner Harry Weinberg owned Bus 1213, owned "motorman" Cecil McWatters, and owned the transfer ticket roll and punch from which a pristIne bus transfer was linked by DPD to Lee Harvey Oswald. The accused assassin of JFK, according to DPD, made his get away on a bus owned by Roy Cohn's business partner, and RFK was gunned down in the basement of a hotel owned by Cohn's very close friend, G. David Schine, brother-in-law of Lester Crown. The Schines were close to Mickey Cohen and to J. Edgar Hoover and the Schines, Joe "the wop" Cataldo, Dorothy Pierson's mother, and Jack Ruby's roommate were all from Gloversville, NY, pop. 15,000. What was the Byfield-Hoy-Crown-Hilton-Kupcinet-Korshak influence on the Warren Commission's Earl Warren and Albert Jenner, jr.? Why would we even have the temerity to ask any of these questions? Conflicted interests and over sized influence....who, them? http://www.nytimes.com/1990/11/06/obituaries/harry-weinberg-82-businessman-in-transit-and-real-estate-is-dead.htmlHarry Weinberg, 82, Businessman In Transit and ... - New York Times www.nytimes.com › COLLECTIONS › REAL ESTATE Nov 6, 1990 – Harry Weinberg, an entrepreneur from Baltimore who became a billionnaire through investments in real estate, mass transit and other ventures... https://www.google.com/search?q=harry+weinberg+%22dallas+bus%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-nightly#hl=en&client=firefox-nightly&hs=R1B&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aunofficial&tbs=ar:1&tbm=nws&sclient=psy-ab&q=%22harry+weinberg%22+dallas+cohn&psj=1&oq=%22harry+weinberg%22+dallas+cohn&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=12&gs_upl=1497129l1507195l2l1508214l7l7l0l0l0l0l97l585l7l7l0&gs_l=serp.12...1497129l1507195l2l1508214l7l7l0l0l0l0l97l585l7l7l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=208d80c60c9d6d9c&biw=1173&bih=729Fifth Avenue Coach Dissident Plans Proxy Contest for Control Wall Street Journal - May 15, 1961 The courtis hearing charges brought against management by the dissident, Harry Weinberg, a Dallas transit operator. Roy N. Cohn, bit. ... FIFTH AVE. COACH SCORES ROY COHN;... ......................In Ny Strike ..Bus Drama .'atna Makes Unscheduled Stop . Miami News - Mar 11, 1962 with overhead a picture I of Harry Weinberg, president the bus line, ... Cohn, the bus line's chief coun sel, and some associates tried to push themselves ... Attorney for Bus Line Barred From... Los Angeles Times (Pay-Per-View) ESTIMATE BOARD DENIES PERMITS TO 5TH... New York Times ($3.95) Taking Over the Buses New York Times ($3.95) WAGNER ORDERS SHOWDOWN TODAY TO END BUS STRIKE; Says City... New York Times - Jan 4, 1962 The opposition group, headed by Harry Weinberg, a Dallas, Scranton and Honolulu transit operator, is being advised on legal matters by Roy M. Cohn, .. Fifth Avenue Coach Claims Proxy Control Without Gray Line... Wall Street Journal - May 8, 1961 ... of the meetings was brought by Harry Weinberg, x transit operator of Dallas. who says he owns more than 50000 shares of Fifth Avenue Coach. Roy M. Cohn. ... Understanding the Bus Story Step Two Consider other ways in which the Dallas Police could have acquired the bus transfer. The official story is based upon the acquisition of the transfer from Oswald’s shirt pocket several hours after his violent arrest. The transfer was allegedly found in the pocket of a shirt that had been dragged, pulled and ripped whilst he was being apprehended. The transfer shows no sign of damage. It looks pristine – like it was when it was probably in the book of transfers from which it came. For the official story to be true – then McWatters had to have given this transfer to Oswald. In his affidavit he does not state this as being true. He simply states that it is a transfer from his bus and has his punch mark. Yet if we read the following Warren Commission testimony from C. N. Dhority: Mr. BALL. Now, on this same night, did you show him this transfer No. 004469? Mr. DHORITY. Yes. Mr. BALL. Issued by the Dallas Transit Co? Mr. DHORITY. Yes. Mr. BALL. And what did he tell you about that? Mr. DHORITY. He said it was definitely a transfer that he issued and showed me his punch that he carried and he matched the punch on the transfer. Mr. BALL. Now, did Captain Fritz give you some rifle shells to deliver to somebody? No follow up question from Joseph Ball. Not in the slightest bit interested in whether McWatters gave this transfer to Oswald – the man in the line-up that he had apparently identified. Here is what C. W. Brown had to say about the ID and the transfer: Mr. BELIN. Do you know what McWatters said when he made his identification? Mr. BROWN. Yes. Mr. McWatters said, “Yes, he is the one that got on the bus. I gave him a transfer.” Mr. BELIN. Did you show Mr. McWatters any transfer that had been found in Oswald’s possession? Mr. BROWN. Yes; at the time he was in their office Now what is wrong with this picture? Well, it’s quite simple really. McWatters did not identify Oswald during the line-up - he says so in his Warren Commission testimony- and so he could not have claimed “…he is the one that got on the bus. I gave him a transfer”, because according to C. N. Dhority, he wasn’t shown the transfer until after the line-up. So there's two strikes straight away. These two Police Officers are lying under oath about the events that night. And once you have established their lack of truthfulness about the line-up and the content of the McWatters affidavit then it’s not too large a step to begin asking what else they lied about? According to the information that we have, Cecil McWatters was issued two books of transfers on the morning of November 22, 1963. How could the Dallas Police have gone some way in proving that the transfer they allegedly took from Oswald during the pre line-up search came from one of Cecil McWatters’ transfer books? Well they could have confiscated the books that were on his bus and entered them into evidence. But they didn’t. Why not? Could it have been because the number of the Oswald transfer was out of numerical sequence? Why else would these transfer books not be seized by the Dallas Police Department? Next up: Step Three Dallas City Council Expected to Approve Buying Transit Firm Wall Street Journal - Dec 23, 1963 The Roy Cohn Story Wall Street Journal - Feb 28, 1963 No sooner had the Weinberg-Cohn forces captured control of the company than they .. Edited March 6, 2012 by Tom Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) On edit: Tom Fairlie, after a full day gone by with no comments posted in reaction to what I suspect is a break through....posted proof of Roy Cohn being a counsel and an equity partner with the owner of Dallas Transit around the exact time when the assassination of JFK had to have been in the planning, your reaction could not have been posted at a better time. To post that I am grateful to read your opinion of this presentation is feeble compared to the uplift you've given me. I posted most of what is in this post before I read your post. I am in my fourth year of being shocked that Roy Cohn and G. David Schine have not attracted more suspicion. It's not like RFK was a bitter enemy of both and ended up at the exact moment he appeared to have a serious chance of winning the 1968 democratic presidential nomination, being mortally wounded in the basement of a Schine controlled hotel, or that any assassination related literature ever pointed a finger at Cohn or anything like that, is it? Or that the political shaman who guided Bill Clinton, a Mr. Dick Morris, was the son of Eugene Morris who was raised by Roy Cohn's father, Albert Cohn, or that Obama was sponsored financially by Schine's brother-in-law and his son and daughter...... or that the Bushes and Tom Devine are knee deep in this connected clique of less than 50 names? This post is linked to the info contained in my last two posts on this thread, both are immediately above this post. Again, what will have to happen to give leads in Torbitt, the serious consideration some of them are due? ................... ........... ......I want to stress that I am not suggesting anything sinister here at all, I just wanted to add some flavor to the mix. Chairman of the Board at Universal Life and Accident Insurance Co. was a man by the name of Julius Schepps who amongst other things was a close friend of John Connally and a mentor to Henry Zapruder, Abe's son. In addition, a Director at Universal Life was R.G. Storey who is one of the more interesting characters one can research. Remembering that when Earl Warren visited Jack Ruby, Storey accompanied him. There is a thread dedicated to Storey here - http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...3&hl=Storey A forum archive search of R.G. Storey also has some curious information. FWIW. James http://obits.dignitymemorial.com/dignity-memorial/obituary.aspx?n=Harmon-Schepps&lc=2251&pid=153273110&mid=4788960&Affiliate=dallasmorningnews&PersonID=153279640&FHID=11533 Harmon Schepps, age 93, passed away on August 23, 2011. He was born in Dallas, TX and lived here all of his life with the exception of 2 years, when he lived at Texas A&M. Born of parents, Nathan and Frieda Schepps. He married Shirley Cooper in 1936. They were married 64 years and had 4 children. He is preceded in death by his parents, wife, Shirley Schepps, son, Raymond Schepps, two sisters, Dora Klugsberg and Nettie Zeitman, and 8 brothers, Morris, Louis, Abe, Jake, Mair, Eli, AI, and Julius. [PDF] WeinbergBook 6/27/05 http://hjweinbergfoundation.org/wp.../download.php?id=WeinbergAR07... File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML The seven children, in birth order, were Henry, Harry, Betty, William, David, Nathan, and Sidney. The Weinberg family came to America with extremely modest means. http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1990-11-07/news/1990311082_1_southwest-baltimore-weinberg-betty Betty Fine Baltimore resident November 07, 1990 ....She was the sister of Harry Weinberg, who died Sunday in Hawaii and left nearly $1 billion to a foundation for the poor. She was the wife of Melvin L. Fine, a lawyer who served as chairman of the Workmen's Compensation Commission and had been a state senator. He died in 1969. The former Betty Weinberg was born in Galicia, then part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and was brought to Baltimore by her father in 1912. They lived in Southwest Baltimore. She is survived by three sons, Stanley S. Fine and Howard Fine, both of Baltimore, and Robert B. Fine of Salisbury; three brothers, William, David and Nathan Weinberg, all of Pikesville; and seven grandchildren. Warren Commission, Volume XXIII: CE 1557 - FBI report dated ... www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/.../WH23_CE_1557.pdf installed he was accompanied by DAVE, NATE and SIDNEY. WEINBERG, owners of the Dallas Transit System, and they went to the Carousel Club. ... BUREAU OF INVESTIOAY 'Y. HARMON SCHEPPS, Presiden -., Schepps Dairy, Inc ., http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/pdf/WH23_CE_1557.pdf http://www.nytimes.com/1990/11/06/obituaries/harry-weinberg-82-businessman-in-transit-and-real-estate-is-dead.htmlHarry Weinberg, 82, Businessman In Transit and Real Estate, Is Dead By GLENN FOWLER Published: November 06, 1990 ....Young Harry, along with his four brothers and sisters, worked in the father's automotive repair shop and learned the rudiments of business. Early Business Start.... ................. Page 2 ...Mr. Weinberg's wife, the former Jeanette Gutman, whom he married in 1932, died last year. Besides his son, who lives in Los Angeles, and his brother William, a resident of Baltimore, he is survived by two other brothers, David and Nathan, and a sister, Betty Fine, all of Baltimore; four grandchildren, and one great-grandchild. The Roy Cohn Story Wall Street Journal - Feb 28, 1963 No sooner had the Weinberg-Cohn forces captured control of the company than they .. Official and Confidential: The Secret Life of J. Edgar Hoover By Anthony Summers (Footnote, end of Chapter 18) 3. A source interviewed for this book contradicted a note in FBI files suggesting that Hoover ceased providing McCarthy with information in the summer of of 1953. The interviewee, an electronics specialist who bugged McCarthy and his aides on behalf of the military during the Army-McCarthy hearings, said the secret help continued to the end. 'I was listening in,' he recalled, 'two, sometimes three times a day, to calls between Hoover and Roy Cohn. Cohn and McCarthy were still getting everything they had from Hoover.' LIFE - Sep 5, 1969 - Page 30 books.google.com Vol. 67, No. 10 - 78 pages - Magazine - ...Needless to say, the episode not only added luster to the Cohn legend but thoroughly shook up some of Morgenthau's witnesses. If Cohn through Nichols could bring about the arbitrary transfer of three FBI agents, what chance had an ordinary citizen?... Lee Oswald and the Marsalis Bus ......2. ...... It makes no sense for Oswald to board that bus, assassin or not, for a good couple of reasons. 3. Why would he need a transfer? I have to completely discount Mary Bledsoe’s testimony because the evidence proves she wasn’t on the bus. Because Bledsoe supports McWatters testimony in regard to the bus transfer given out I have to claim my belief that McWatters testimony on this matter was suborned. Jones mentions nothing about transfers being issued. Therefore the question is “where did Oswald get the transfer” that was in his “possession?” I will answer this question a little later because to answer it I believe you first have to contemplate a more fundamental question. Why did he need one? We know that the transfers given out on Elm Street are only good at designated transfer points. As soon as Oswald allegedly got off the bus he was, within four minutes, in William Whaley’s taxi cab. Oswald allegedly got off the Marsalis bus and headed straight for the Greyhound bus station on Lamar Street and immediately got into a cab. So why the need for a transfer? It would appear he had no plans to use it. So why would he even contemplate getting one? The bus transfer is the most curious item involved in this whole affair. If he wasn’t on the bus then how did he get it? Why did it take the DPD two hours to find it? How did they find out it was McWatters who punched it? There is nothing in the record that explains how the DPD found out that it was Cecil McWatters who issued this transfer. It is not contained in any reports that were filed by DPD officers or homicide detectives. We know that Lieutenant Wells sent Dhority and Brown to collect McWatters from the Piedmont line bus that was due outside City Hall at Commerce and Harwood at 6:15pm. He was taken inside where he immediately identified Roy Milton Jones in the line-up, he was then questioned, identified the bus transfer, and then an affidavit taken from him. He was kept in City Hall until the small hours of the 23rd. Considering the incredibly short affidavit he submitted and since we know that the line-up took place at 6:15pm, 6-7 hours is an incredibly long time to be interviewed. What they grilled him on for this length of time is anyone’s guess but for him to include in his affidavit that he picked up his passenger from right outside the TSBD goes some way into trying to understand what they were perhaps “talking” to him about. Especially when McWatters knew he wasn’t allowed to stop where he claims he stopped in his statement. Similar to us not knowing how the DPD found out about McWatters we also have very little documentation that explains whether the DPD took the full book of transfers from McWatters to gain a grasp on the numerical sequences involved in their issuance. In fact, I was under the impression for years that the only evidence in existence of bus 1213 transfers being collected was this photograph of the one allegedly given to Oswald. Transfer number 004459: What I have always found curious is that the DPD and the FBI seemed to show little interest in tracing the woman that McWatters and Bledsoe claimed got the transfer prior to Oswald’s. The lady making her way to the train station would have been issued transfer number 004458. Obviously, the likelihood that the individual involved would have still had the transfer is minimal but they made no attempt to even find out (ladies purses do sometimes have a steroetypical knack of holding onto items that enter them), or to find her to corroborate McWatters recollections. Much the same way they failed to look for the old lady that Oswald offered his own cab to at the Greyhound Station who could have corroborated William Whaley’s statements. The simple fact of the matter is, if these people existed, I’m sure they would have been looked for. Concerning the transfer, I will leave you with this. We do know that the DPD confiscated the book of transfers from Cecil McWatters. Whether it was definitely the same book that Oswald's transfer was allegedly issued from is anyone’s guess because the actual book was never photographed. We do know "a" book was taken because a receipt was given for it. The receipt has the following written on the back“Receipt for the book of transfers from which transfer was issued to Oswald the accused assin of Pres, John F. Kennedy.” What is tantalising about this receipt is what it was written on. What is even more tantalising is the number of the thing it was written on. TRansfer receipt #004451. I’ll leave it up to everyone’s imagination to make their own sense out of what this could potentially mean: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=62307&relPageId=88 (Transfer Receipt) Without the full transfer book it's impossible to cast-iron prove anything regarding this little gem but at least this does prove that the DPD had the full transfer book in their possession and they certainly kept this fact out of the reports and out of discussion and if this knowledge does one thing for me, it certainly reinforces the thoughts I have had about the Oswald transfer that I've had for more than 15 years; Oswald wasn't on the bus. Nor was he in the cab. He left Dealey Plaza by other means. The transfer was planted. In addition, On October, 14, 1963, the Dallas Credit Corporation filed a judgment it had obtained in a Dallas Court against Porter L. Bledsoe in the amount of $115.00. To put this amount in perspective, LHO was paid $50.00 per week for 40 hours worked, gasoline in Texas sold for 25 cents per gallon, gold sold for $35 per ounce, and silver sold for $1.25 per ounce. Today, the lawful minimum pay for 40 hours worked is $286.00, gasoline is at least $3.25 per gal., an ounce of gold costs $1700, and silver sells at $34 ounce. So the contemporary value of that $115 judgment is $670 at minimum, and around $5000, if that judgment was required to be settled with gold. Bledsoe also was facing a payment deadline on the principal of more than $4000 on a note secured by his mother Mary's home property. Court records show that Bledsoe obtained a new loan from an EM Thompson on 30 Jan., 1964, in the amount of $6500, secured by the deed to Mary's house. Porter Bledsoe then paid of the note in the amount of $4000 due for payment to a Dallas bank, and on Feb., 2, 1964, he paid off the $115 judgment and a lien release was filed by the Dallas Credit Corporation on 10 Feb., 1964. The first attempt to discredit any witness offering the FBI a statement that deviated from what they wanted to hear was a check of the witness's credit standing at the local credit bureau, and a check of the witness's reputation. The family record of Mary and Porter Bledsoe included the suspicion of her ex-husband that Porter was not his child due to his then wife, Mary's infidelity when her ex-husband was away for long periods due to his employment on the railroad. You will see none of those negative background details in the FBI reporting on Mary Bledsoe and her son, Porter. Mary's ex-husband lived in Texas to the ripe old age of 103, but the DPD, the FBI, and the WC evidently had no incentive to produce him for questioning, in spite of the courthouse record of Porter Bledsoe's, and whatever was found and suppressed from the local credit bureau, and in spite of the curious sale by Porter Bledsoe of a page from his mother's calender with LHO's name allegedly written on it, for the princely sum of $4 !!! Edited March 7, 2012 by Tom Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robert Morrow Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Have you ever heard the expression "It's just a coincidence?" If my first cousin's retirement pension is invested by CALPERS in Halliburton stock, does that make him responsible for the engineering the Iraq War in 2003? Looking for coincidences and links is fine. But showing the importance and utility of the connection is even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) I am currently researching Dr. Von Braun and Operation Paperclip and am surprised to find that there seems to be no information about his commenting on the assassination of JFK. I find this especially ironic in that JFK visited Von Braun at Canaveral just a few days before the assassination: http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=jfk+and+werner+von+braun+september+1963&FORM=VIRE2#view=detail&mid=2CFCE15B472EF569B31A2CFCE15B472EF569B31A "Torbitt"s reference to his being a part of the assassination cabal is nebulous. Does anyone have more detailed information? Thanks... Edited November 29, 2015 by Pamela Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Gilbride Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Pamela, I looked into von Braun a number of years ago, and concluded he would be the logical choice to head up a secret space program- and while he was heading up NASA. That he was privy to an entirely separate technological track of development. On p. 73 of The Day After Roswell, von Braun "intimated that there was a deeper story about what the Germans had engineered"- he apparently had a look at the famed crash and hinted to the Army brass that he knew a lot more. Hitler's Flying Saucers has a 16-page section on "The Peenemuende Saucer Project". This was a more-than-fledgling Nazi flying disc program during the war run by Hans Kammler, Walter Dornberger and the engineering genius von Braun. Some of their Haunebu designs were huge- over 120 feet across. The Torbitt book that I have begins with a photo section- and the caption for JFK's 9/11/62 visit to the Marshall Space Flight Center to see the Saturn V cluster test-fired says that JFK & von Braun got into an argument about other means of travel to the Moon. When one considers the saucer craze of the 50's, especially the July 1952 Washington flyover, President Kennedy had legitimate cause to wonder about alternatives. Here's a short youtube I think narrated by Joseph P. Farrell that presents strong evidence that there could be such a secret space program: Unfortunately there's scant details available it seems as to von Braun in relation to the assassination. A negative template, perhaps? The Paperclip Nazis were at the pinnacle of the emerging aerospace technocracy, and Dulles was their #1 benefactor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Kaiser Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) Nazi Haunebu.jpg Pamela, I looked into von Braun a number of years ago, and concluded he would be the logical choice to head up a secret space program- and while he was heading up NASA. That he was privy to an entirely separate technological track of development. On p. 73 of The Day After Roswell, von Braun "intimated that there was a deeper story about what the Germans had engineered"- he apparently had a look at the famed crash and hinted to the Army brass that he knew a lot more. Hitler's Flying Saucers has a 16-page section on "The Peenemuende Saucer Project". This was a more-than-fledgling Nazi flying disc program during the war run by Hans Kammler, Walter Dornberger and the engineering genius von Braun. Some of their Haunebu designs were huge- over 120 feet across. The Torbitt book that I have begins with a photo section- and the caption for JFK's 9/11/62 visit to the Marshall Space Flight Center to see the Saturn V cluster test-fired says that JFK & von Braun got into an argument about other means of travel to the Moon. When one considers the saucer craze of the 50's, especially the July 1952 Washington flyover, President Kennedy had legitimate cause to wonder about alternatives. Here's a short youtube I think narrated by Joseph P. Farrell that presents strong evidence that there could be such a secret space program: Unfortunately there's scant details available it seems as to von Braun in relation to the assassination. A negative template, perhaps? The Paperclip Nazis were at the pinnacle of the emerging aerospace technocracy, and Dulles was their #1 benefactor. Growing up in Miami I learned to believe in two things spaceships and Sasquatch otherwise known as "Big foot". Of course, I've never seen either one, not sure about anyone else. Anyone here seen Bigfoot besides TV? Reminds me of Kennedy's assassination, you believe in what you don't see, my mothers boyfriend believes there is life beyond this world, he wholeheartedly believes in aliens. I told him, I believe in aliens too, they come from Mexico and other countries. However, there's no disputing the evidence of Kennedy's assassination when it's all right there, in-front of you. Edited November 30, 2015 by Scott Kaiser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) It's all a game, with the same players playing both sides against us, in the middle: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread810793/pg1 Even this UFO-aliens "debunking" site is propaganda. Edited November 30, 2015 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Gilbride Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 So true. The technology has been there since WWII, for humans to construct and fly these things, but it's so shielded with lies & disinformation & ridicule it won't be uncovered. A further example is an expose such as Annie Jacobsen's 2011 Area 51 An Uncensored History of America's Top Secret Military Base. This has great information on the U-2 and Blackbird advanced space planes from CIA whistleblowers, but doesn't take the UFO whistleblower Bob Lazar seriously. So the impression this "expose" gives is that this super-secret facility is only a base where the CIA tests out new spy plane technology, there's nothing more to see here folks, don't be bothered with Lazar, he's probably another one of those tin-hat types. There is information on von Braun in Farrell's SS Brotherhood of the Bell, but most of it is derived from Torbitt or the debunked MJ-12 documents. I'm quite skeptical that Pamela would find a substantiable source on him in popular books or the internet. She might have to visit wherever his personal papers are housed, or perhaps those of an associate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 So true. The technology has been there since WWII, for humans to construct and fly these things, but it's so shielded with lies & disinformation & ridicule it won't be uncovered. A further example is an expose such as Annie Jacobsen's 2011 Area 51 An Uncensored History of America's Top Secret Military Base. This has great information on the U-2 and Blackbird advanced space planes from CIA whistleblowers, but doesn't take the UFO whistleblower Bob Lazar seriously. So the impression this "expose" gives is that this super-secret facility is only a base where the CIA tests out new spy plane technology, there's nothing more to see here folks, don't be bothered with Lazar, he's probably another one of those tin-hat types. There is information on von Braun in Farrell's SS Brotherhood of the Bell, but most of it is derived from Torbitt or the debunked MJ-12 documents. I'm quite skeptical that Pamela would find a substantiable source on him in popular books or the internet. She might have to visit wherever his personal papers are housed, or perhaps those of an associate. Thanks for the info, Richard. I do have the Brotherhood of the Bell, will check that out, and will locate a copy of Ara 51. I am reading everything I can find on Von Braun. It is mystifying that he was very outspoken on many things, but not on his relationship with JFK and how he enlisted JFK to be his voice for the moon shot. At least, so far. I have contacted Dr. Carol Rosin who was a spokesperson for him during his last days, but have not heard back from her yet. Ironically, I have come into this area of research because of personal experience with the family of one of the physicists who was a part of WVB's team. I asked them many questions about being a Nazi and the environment in Germany at the end of WWII, but nothing about Von Braun. Now, I wish I had just picked their brains. The physicist is deceased, and the young man who was my high school friend died tragically some time ago, so I don't have a way back in. As a number of books have come out on the crew from Peenemunde, I have been surprised that there is so little specific information. So I will be doing a timeline on this man and will bring it to the research community. He specialized in jet engines, so he did not go to Huntsville with the Von Braun team, but ended up in a company in southern Connecticut. I found the Whos Who in America entry for his wife (now deceased also) and was astonished to see how bland it is. Although I was told this man had an entry, Marquis checked all their hard copies for me and did not find one, so that is curious too. I think this is how they managed to stay under the radar. :-0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Gilbride Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 This is a huge lacuna and filling it even partially probably involves several years. You might get lucky. Dr. Rosin may remember associates he contacted fairly regularly, they might have collections of personal papers housed somewhere that hold a clue. My guess on von Braun's associates to look into would be White Sands early Paperclip scientists, Huntsville Germans, & NASA heavyweights such as Kurt Debus and Arthur Rudolph. My conclusion was that there was a "rogue" group out of the 1000 Paperclip guys, who stayed in the desert, or even went to Wright-Patterson, to develop advanced aerospace technology. Von Braun was always the go-to guy. I could not adequately figure out, after Seamus Coogan's expose of Tim Cooper's bogus MJ-12 documents, what Cooper or his cohort Richard Doty were trying to tell us. What was the grain of truth in that disinformation ploy? Von Braun is in a couple of them, and his appraisal of the downed crash seemed quite credible. But was this only a clever story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 This is a huge lacuna and filling it even partially probably involves several years. You might get lucky. Dr. Rosin may remember associates he contacted fairly regularly, they might have collections of personal papers housed somewhere that hold a clue. My guess on von Braun's associates to look into would be White Sands early Paperclip scientists, Huntsville Germans, & NASA heavyweights such as Kurt Debus and Arthur Rudolph. My conclusion was that there was a "rogue" group out of the 1000 Paperclip guys, who stayed in the desert, or even went to Wright-Patterson, to develop advanced aerospace technology. Von Braun was always the go-to guy. I could not adequately figure out, after Seamus Coogan's expose of Tim Cooper's bogus MJ-12 documents, what Cooper or his cohort Richard Doty were trying to tell us. What was the grain of truth in that disinformation ploy? Von Braun is in a couple of them, and his appraisal of the downed crash seemed quite credible. But was this only a clever story? Interesting points. I do think there is a lot missing from books about Wernher Von Braun. Some things are just left out, others are deliberately vague. I do think Dr. Rosin has a wealth of information, especially concerning Von Braun's thinking during the last years of his life. It is a bit odd that he did not ask any of his children to be a spokesperson for him, or his wife. I am tracking info on Debus and Rudolph. It is ironic that had WVB lived, his life might have been turned upside down as Rudolph's was. Do you have a link for Seamus Coogan's article? Thanks, Pamela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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