Dale Myer's Tippit book

[Denis Pointing]

Here is a summary of Tatum's testimony from McAdams site

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo4/jfk12/hscalojt.htm

Does anyone have the complete transcript of Tatum's HSCA interview?

This Ray:

BAYLOR UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER

Wednesday, Feb. 1st, 1978.

OFFICE OF PHOTO DEPARTMENT OF HOBIEZELLE HOSPITAL

3500 GASTON AVE, DALLAS, TEXAS.

Investigators Jack Moriarty and Joe Basteri, menders of the Select Committee on Assassinations, U.S. House of Representatives, Washington., D.C. are in the office of the Director of Photography of the hospital mentioned above, and Mr. JACK RAY TATUM, The Director, has been interviewed with regard to his first hand knowledge, of the Fatal shooting of Officer J.D. Tippit, here in Dallas, Friday, November 22nd, 1963.

Mr. Tatum will reiterate his statement to be reduced to typewritten form

(By Moriarty) "Mr. Tatum, if you'll repeat your statement slowly, I'll attempt to type it."

Although I did not remember the exact time I remember it was early in the afternoon on Friday, November 22, 1963. I was driving XXXX north on Denver and stopped at 10th St. when I first saw the squad car and men walking on the sidewalk near the squad car. Both the squad car and this young white male were coming in my direction(East on 10th Street). At the time I was just approaching the squad car, I noticed this young white male with both hands in the pockets of his zippered jacket leaning over the passenger side of the squad car. This young white male was looking into the squad car from the passenger side. The next thing I knew I heard something that sounded like gun shots as I approached the intersection. (10th & Patton). I heard three shots in rapid (illegible)I went right through the intersection, stopped my car and turned to look back. I then saw the officer lying on the street and saw this young white man standing near the front of the squad car. Next. this man with a gun in his hand ran toward the back of the squad car, but instead of running away he stepped into the street and shot the police officer who was lying in the street. At that point this young man looked around him and then started to walk away in my direction and as he started to break into a small run in my direction, I sped off in my auto. All I saw him to the intersection and run south on Patton towards Jefferson.

Q. Did you know Lee Harvey Oswald, Officer Tippit or anyone else at the scene.

A. No

Q Did you not report this information to the authorities?

A. There were more than enough people there and I could not see what I could contribute.

Q. Is there anything you wish to add to your statement?

A. At this time I can't think or anything.

Jack Moriarty Joe Basteri Jack R. Tatum

Feb, 1 1978

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Thank you Dennis, all is forgiven

[Denis Pointing]

LOL Glad to hear it Ray. Thanks. Denis.

[David G. Healy]

Perhaps I am missing something. Was all the Tippit evidence analysed and publically announced before the death of LHO? I am sure you can see that the death of the accused changed things considerably. Many of the lineups were related to the Tippit killing, do you think they would have stood up in court? Same reasoning.

Neville, I very much doubt if the physical evidence was analysed and publicly announced before the death of LHO because of the time frame. But that doesn't alter the content of the physical evidence one iota. And no, I cant see that the death of the accused changed things considerably as far as the physical evidence IE the shells are concerned. Do you really not think if there was any planting going on the police wouldn't have planted bullets that actually matched Oswald's gun?

And yes, I do think many, if not all, of the lineups would have stood up in court. But that's just IMO and as such isn't worth a light. I prefer facts and the facts show that the physical evidence re the Tippit murder IE the shells found by the Davies is solid and would have been admissible in court. This alone would have been enough to convict Oswald even without witnesses, remember Oswald was found a short distance away WITH the murder weapon. And attempted to kill yet another police officer with it!!

bold but no cigar, son.

[Duke Lane]

Denis, I appreciate your persistence, but you stray off point. That point, in the original, complete post was:

... As for the other two shells, well Duke its not really too difficult now is it? The Davis girls found the shells, handed them to a police officer, they were marked by Captain G.M. Doughty, placed in a filing cabinet, retrieved by an FBI agent and the ID marks positively identified by Captain Doughty.

I then asked you:

They were? When? By what instrument? In the testimony he didn't give? In the affidavit he didn't make? Who was the police officer who got them from the Davises? Whom did he give them to, and he to whom?

You then came back at me with:

Testimony such as this perhaps? Its there to be found if you look Duke.

You thereafter quoted testimony by Patrolman Brown, who did not handle or have anything else to do with the shell Doughty presumably marked.

There is no testimony at all by Captain Doughty, whether about the shell or anything else. He did not file an affidavit. His "positive identification" of that shell, the first one found by the Davis girls - the "third" shell found, after the first two by Benavides - exists only as a statement by an FBI agent about what another FBI agent claims Doughty said to him. Hearsay; inadmissible.

The fourth shell, found by the Davis girls later in the afternoon, is the one that both Brown and Detective Dhority testified about, but they did not identify the shell because they were never given the shell to examine; they merely talked about it.

But yet you persist:

... I'm pointing out that testimony you said didn't exist does exist. Anyway, forget semantics and move on.

The testimony that I said does not exist - Captain Doughty's - does not exist. Officer Brown's testimony is not Captain Doughty's testimony. Detective Dhority's testimony is not Captain Doughty's testimony. Lieutenant J.C. Day's testimony - which doesn't mention the .38 Special shells at all - is not Captain Doughty's testimony.

Get a grip: Captain Doughty's testimony does not exist. There's no "meaning" to that, so "semantics" can't be set aside. There is no testimony about the third shell, and there is no identification of the fourth. Your pretense about "semantics" doesn't make it anything else.

Read this below from: "Evidence for the Law Enforcement Officer" by Gilbert B. Stuckey. Pay particular attention to#3. If there had been a trial those shells would have been admissible as they were marked by both Brown and Dhority. Case closed?

... There are three procedures which may be followed by the officer that will enable him to positively identify an object as the one he found, and to establish that it has a relation to the case at hand ....

Okay, let's look at those:

1. He may keep the object in his complete and exclusive custody and control from the time it was found until it is presented in court.
   We know that none of the men did this.
   
2. He may maintain a complete and accurate record of the chain of possession.
   If this was done, nobody produced such a record.
   
3. He may mark the object in some distinctive manner which will enable him to recognize it at a later time.
   This may have occurred, but none of them were asked to "recognize" it. Doughty was asked nothing, and Brown and Dhority only swore that they marked "a" shell, but were not shown the shell in order to "recognize" it.
   

There is no question that any one of these methods would have been sufficient to allow the items to be admitted as evidence, if their testimony to that effect had been adduced. It was not. The prosecution has rested, the "trial" is over, the bullets were not identified by any of the men under oath - not even in a sworn statement, an affidavit - and conjecturing what any of the men might have said if asked doesn't cut muster. There is no "chain of evidence" because one was not established. Period.

[Duke Lane]

Neville, I very much doubt if the physical evidence was analysed and publicly announced before the death of LHO because of the time frame. But that doesn't alter the content of the physical evidence one iota. ... I prefer facts and the facts show that the physical evidence re the Tippit murder IE the shells found by the Davies is solid and would have been admissible in court....

Maybe they might have ... if anyone had bothered to subpoena Captain Doughty to testify that the "third" shell - that they would have had to show him - bore the marks that he presumably said that he made, and if anyone had bothered to show the "fourth" shell to Brown and Dhority so they could identify it. But they didn't, which could be because they wouldn't have so identified them. We don't know either way, and because we don't know, those shells have to be excluded.

Joe Poe thought that he'd put his initials on the first two shells, found by Benavides. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but his inability to state that the shells that he was shown were, in all fact, the shells that he'd handled on November 22, they, too, must be excluded. Their exclusion must be upheld if the fourth-person FBI report in which it is purported that Captain Doughty "positively identified" the shell that he'd handled is sufficient to establish such "positive identification," since in it, Poe also stated in no uncertain terms that he did mark the two shells.

Sergeant Jerry Hill also testified that "I told Poe to maintain the chain of evidence as small as possible, for him to retain these at that time, and to be sure and mark them for evidence, and then turn them over to the crime lab when he got there, or to homicide." While it may be possible that, on his own, Poe would have forgotten to mark the shells, but is it likely that he would have forgotten to mark them after having been reminded to?

Sergeant Pete Barnes of the Crime Lab testified that "empty .38 caliber hulls was turned over to me at the scene by patrolman -- I believe I would be safe in saying Poe, but I am not sure about that." Poe cannot find his initials which the believes that he put in the shells, and Barnes isn't sure it was Poe who gave them to him. Might have been, but couldn't say for sure.

... And no, I cant see that the death of the accused changed things considerably as far as the physical evidence IE the shells are concerned. Do you really not think if there was any planting going on the police wouldn't have planted bullets that actually matched Oswald's gun? ...

The problem with that scenario is that the bullets went to the hospital along with Tippit's body. Kind of tough to switch something you can't get your hands on.

[Ed LeDoux]

Yes thank you Dennis,

"I was driving XXXX north on Denver and stopped at 10th St. when I first saw the squad car and men walking on the sidewalk near the squad car. Both the squad car and this young white male were coming in my direction(East on 10th Street). At the time I was just approaching the squad car, I noticed this young white male with both hands in the pockets of his zippered jacket leaning over the passenger side of the squad car. This young white male was looking into the squad car from the passenger side. The next thing I knew I heard something that sounded like gun shots as I approached the intersection. (10th & Patton). I heard three shots in rapid (illegible)I went right through the intersection, stopped my car and turned to look back. I then saw the officer lying on the street and saw this young white man standing near the front of the squad car. Next. this man with a gun in his hand ran toward the back of the squad car, but instead of running away he stepped into the street and shot the police officer who was lying in the street. At that point this young man looked around him and then started to walk away in my direction and as he started to break into a small run in my direction, I sped off in my auto. All I saw him to the intersection and run south on Patton towards Jefferson.

Q. Did you know Lee Harvey Oswald, Officer Tippit or anyone else at the scene.

A. No

Q Did you not report this information to the authorities?

A. There were more than enough people there and I could not see what I could contribute.

Q. Is there anything you wish to add to your statement?

A. At this time I can't think or anything.

Jack Moriarty Joe Basteri Jack R. Tatum

Feb, 1 1978

"Men" (plural) Walking East on 10th? Corroborates other witnesses who saw more than one person. (Acquillla Clemons, although it is possible she saw Benavides and Callaway...do we have their clothing descriptions from that day)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-OH06xqX2g

"Sped off in my auto" ? Then how did he see that there "were more than enough people there and I could not see what I could contribute" if he "sped off? Did he circle back? If he did where does he mention this, and how much later?

If he went through the intersection he had to pass in front of Scoggins and Markham. Markham would be at the corner waiting then for Tatum to pass by so she could continue on.

Belin tries twice to get Benavides to say in the middle of the street or verify where on the street the car had stalled:

Mr. Benavides.

I had lunch. And then this man had stalled this car in the middle of the street and asked me if I would fix it. Something was wrong with the carburetor, or pump that had broken in it, and I went around to the parts house to get the parts for it.

Mr. Belin.

Where had the man's car stopped in the middle of the street?

Mr. Benavides.

Well, on Patton Street.

Mr. Belin.

Patton and what?

Mr. Benavides.

Between Jefferson and 10th.

Mr. Belin.

A car stopped in the middle of the street between--

Mr. Benavides.

Jefferson and Tenth.

Of course we would like to know who this stalled car belonged to or what it looked like but alas we are left wondering....

Frank Wright lived along the street from the spot where Tippit was killed, and heard the shots as he sat in his living room. While his wife telephoned for help, Wright went straight to his front door. He later told researchers: "I was the first person out," and caught sight of Tippit in time to see him roll over once and then lie still. Wright also said, "I saw a man standing in front of the car. He was looking toward the man on the ground. I couldn't tell who the man was on the ground. The man who was standing in front of him was about medium height. He had on a long coat. It ended just above his hands. I didn't see any gun. He ran around on the passenger side of the police car. He ran as fast as he could go, and he got into his car... He got in that car and he drove away as fast as you could see.... After that a whole lot of police came up. I tried to tell two or three people what I saw. They didn't pay any attention. I've seen what came out on television and in the newspaper but I know that's not what happened. I know a man drove off in a gray car. Nothing in the world's going to change my opinion."

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKStippet.htm

[Neville Gully]

In an earlier post, Raymond thought that Benevides red car was Tatum's. I replied that the testimony did not support this. Hasty reading on my part (and posting late at night) led to my post. From the testimony by Tatum his account might put him ahead of Benevides at the time of the shooting. No other corroborating reports of him crossing the intersection, by either Markham (who by her own admission was waiting for traffic to pass before crossing the road) or Scoggins, at the time of the shooting are still concerning.

[Denis Pointing]

Neville, I very much doubt if the physical evidence was analysed and publicly announced before the death of LHO because of the time frame. But that doesn't alter the content of the physical evidence one iota. ... I prefer facts and the facts show that the physical evidence re the Tippit murder IE the shells found by the Davies is solid and would have been admissible in court....

Maybe they might have ... if anyone had bothered to subpoena Captain Doughty to testify that the "third" shell - that they would have had to show him - bore the marks that he presumably said that he made, and if anyone had bothered to show the "fourth" shell to Brown and Dhority so they could identify it. But they didn't, which could be because they wouldn't have so identified them. We don't know either way, and because we don't know, those shells have to be excluded.

Joe Poe thought that he'd put his initials on the first two shells, found by Benavides. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but his inability to state that the shells that he was shown were, in all fact, the shells that he'd handled on November 22, they, too, must be excluded. Their exclusion must be upheld if the fourth-person FBI report in which it is purported that Captain Doughty "positively identified" the shell that he'd handled is sufficient to establish such "positive identification," since in it, Poe also stated in no uncertain terms that he did mark the two shells.

Sergeant Jerry Hill also testified that "I told Poe to maintain the chain of evidence as small as possible, for him to retain these at that time, and to be sure and mark them for evidence, and then turn them over to the crime lab when he got there, or to homicide." While it may be possible that, on his own, Poe would have forgotten to mark the shells, but is it likely that he would have forgotten to mark them after having been reminded to?

Sergeant Pete Barnes of the Crime Lab testified that "empty .38 caliber hulls was turned over to me at the scene by patrolman -- I believe I would be safe in saying Poe, but I am not sure about that." Poe cannot find his initials which the believes that he put in the shells, and Barnes isn't sure it was Poe who gave them to him. Might have been, but couldn't say for sure.

... And no, I cant see that the death of the accused changed things considerably as far as the physical evidence IE the shells are concerned. Do you really not think if there was any planting going on the police wouldn't have planted bullets that actually matched Oswald's gun? ...

The problem with that scenario is that the bullets went to the hospital along with Tippit's body. Kind of tough to switch something you can't get your hands on.

Duke, your stubborness is just wasting everyone's time here. Below are three links to the sworn testimony of officers Brown, Dhority and Barnes. All three swore under oath that they marked the shells found at the Tippit murder scene.

Read them, dont read them, accept them, dont accept them. Frankly, I no longer care. This is like trying to reason with a Jehovah witness. My closing comments are brief, unlike yourself I dont use ten unnecessary words for every nessarcy one. If Oswald had gone to trial and those casings produced as evidence for those officers to identify, the chain of possession would have passed the criteria and they would have been accepted as admissible evidence. That's what our debate is about, remember? All your rhetoric and nitpicking wont change that. Incidentally, your last statement, "that the bullets went to the hospital with Tippit's body" do you really think they stayed there? Perhaps you belive they were locked away in the ointment drawer!

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/dhority1.htm

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/brown_c.htm

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/barnes.htm

Edited November 30, 2008 by Denis Pointing

[Neville Gully]

Some more research has shown that Benevides found one Winchester/Western and one Remington/Peters cartridge that were passed to Poe. The Davis sisters found likewise, one of each type that was passed to Doughty. Four more W/W bullets were found in the revolver, all W/W but 2 were copper coated lead and 2 were lead only. Five shells were reportedly found in Oswald's pants pocket some time after his arrest and in custody, again all were W/W.

I have attached the match of one of the spent cartridges to Oswalds revolver from HSCA VolVII page 407. I have udjusted the original to resize the left side and made this a negative so that you can see the matching marking lines on the test fired cartridge on the right.

Edited November 30, 2008 by Neville Gully

[Bernice Moore]

FWTAW.......

From the DPD Files......

B........

[David G. Healy]

Neville, I very much doubt if the physical evidence was analysed and publicly announced before the death of LHO because of the time frame. But that doesn't alter the content of the physical evidence one iota. ... I prefer facts and the facts show that the physical evidence re the Tippit murder IE the shells found by the Davies is solid and would have been admissible in court....

Maybe they might have ... if anyone had bothered to subpoena Captain Doughty to testify that the "third" shell - that they would have had to show him - bore the marks that he presumably said that he made, and if anyone had bothered to show the "fourth" shell to Brown and Dhority so they could identify it. But they didn't, which could be because they wouldn't have so identified them. We don't know either way, and because we don't know, those shells have to be excluded.

Joe Poe thought that he'd put his initials on the first two shells, found by Benavides. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but his inability to state that the shells that he was shown were, in all fact, the shells that he'd handled on November 22, they, too, must be excluded. Their exclusion must be upheld if the fourth-person FBI report in which it is purported that Captain Doughty "positively identified" the shell that he'd handled is sufficient to establish such "positive identification," since in it, Poe also stated in no uncertain terms that he did mark the two shells.

Sergeant Jerry Hill also testified that "I told Poe to maintain the chain of evidence as small as possible, for him to retain these at that time, and to be sure and mark them for evidence, and then turn them over to the crime lab when he got there, or to homicide." While it may be possible that, on his own, Poe would have forgotten to mark the shells, but is it likely that he would have forgotten to mark them after having been reminded to?

Sergeant Pete Barnes of the Crime Lab testified that "empty .38 caliber hulls was turned over to me at the scene by patrolman -- I believe I would be safe in saying Poe, but I am not sure about that." Poe cannot find his initials which the believes that he put in the shells, and Barnes isn't sure it was Poe who gave them to him. Might have been, but couldn't say for sure.

... And no, I cant see that the death of the accused changed things considerably as far as the physical evidence IE the shells are concerned. Do you really not think if there was any planting going on the police wouldn't have planted bullets that actually matched Oswald's gun? ...

The problem with that scenario is that the bullets went to the hospital along with Tippit's body. Kind of tough to switch something you can't get your hands on.

Duke, your stubborness is just wasting everyone's time here. Below are three links to the sworn testimony of officers Brown, Dhority and Barnes. All three swore under oath that they marked the shells found at the Tippit murder scene.

Read them, dont read them, accept them, dont accept them. Frankly, I no longer care. This is like trying to reason with a Jehovah witness. My closing comments are brief, unlike yourself I dont use ten unnecessary words for every nessarcy one. If Oswald had gone to trial and those casings produced as evidence for those officers to identify, the chain of possession would have passed the criteria and they would have been accepted as admissible evidence. That's what our debate is about, remember? All your rhetoric and nitpicking wont change that. Incidentally, your last statement, "that the bullets went to the hospital with Tippit's body" do you really think they stayed there? Perhaps you belive they were locked away in the ointment drawer!

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/dhority1.htm

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/brown_c.htm

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/barnes.htm

Speaking of wasting time.... Old Duke is making you stretch a bit, huh? ROTFLMAO!

A D. VonPein clone perhaps? You clones are popping up all over the place these days. And making no headway. Keep coming back! We do enjoy the show....

Edited November 30, 2008 by David G. Healy

[Duke Lane]

... If Oswald had gone to trial and those casings produced as evidence for those officers to identify, the chain of possession would have passed the criteria and they would have been accepted as admissible evidence. That's what our debate is about, remember? ...

I agreed with you on that, didn't I? My point has been that the shells were not "produced as evidence for those officers to identify," and as a consequence, they were not identified, and the chain wasn't established. Barnes and Dhority testified to marking "a" bullet - not one being shown to them - and Doughty didn't say or do or even write anything.

Short enough for you? I'm trying hard not to be arrogant and stubborn and use ten words where one will do. May I recommend Dale Carnegie to you? Nobody forces you to waste your time reading and responding to my posts, least of all me. You could put me on your "ignore" list and then you wouldn't feel compelled, you wouldn't even see them. Give it some thought.

[Denis Pointing]

... If Oswald had gone to trial and those casings produced as evidence for those officers to identify, the chain of possession would have passed the criteria and they would have been accepted as admissible evidence. That's what our debate is about, remember? ...

I agreed with you on that, didn't I? My point has been that the shells were not "produced as evidence for those officers to identify," and as a consequence, they were not identified, and the chain wasn't established. Barnes and Dhority testified to marking "a" bullet - not one being shown to them - and Doughty didn't say or do or even write anything.

Short enough for you? I'm trying hard not to be arrogant and stubborn and use ten words where one will do. May I recommend Dale Carnegie to you? Nobody forces you to waste your time reading and responding to my posts, least of all me. You could put me on your "ignore" list and then you wouldn't feel compelled, you wouldn't even see them. Give it some thought.

I only wish I could ignore you...unfortunately your one of the best damn researchers on this forum, oh yeah, I removed the word arrogant....but stubborns staying. I'm already familiar with Dale Carnegie, are you saying his book "HOW TO MAKE FRIENDS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE" isn't working for me?

Edited November 30, 2008 by Denis Pointing

[Ed LeDoux]

I have recently read the WC witness testimony relating to the Tippit shooting and the following observations come to mind........please note that this is from memory so some details might be incorrect.

The only 3 witnesses who "saw" the shooting were Helen Markham, Benevides and Scoggins.

Markham was some distance from the event and shortly after the shots were fired put here hands over her eyes. She got but a fleeting glimpse of the shooter and her identification of LHO was questionable to say the least. She did not correctly identify the colour of the "white" jacket found in the gas station parking lot (the shooter had a tan jacket according to most who gave statements). She also said the shooter was travelling west to east as she claims to have seen him step onto the footpath (in front of Scoggins) I think this part of her testimony was added to her story because she thought she "must" have seen it. Her identification of LHO in the lineup was questionable (as was most of those who identified him as the guy with the gun). I believe the only real value in her account is in relation of the timing of the shooting as she was on her way to work and had to catch the 1.12 bus on Jefferson. She estimated the time at approximately 1.06 and in this I believe she is close to the mark. This earlier time than the WC concluded is supported by Bowley, as he too had good reason to be aware of the time (he was picking up his wife at 1pm and was already late.....(we all know what sort of problems that can cause). Also, as Markham did not observe the shooter ahead of her, travelling south on Patton we can exclude this route from the possible one taken by the shooter in that time frame.

Scoggins had just returned to his cab from the Gentlemen's club with his lunch and had only started to eat when the shooting occurred. I think Myer is correct in observing that Scoggins failure to see the shooter pass in front of his cab, maybe 30 seconds before Tippit, indicates that the shooter did not travel west to east along 10th. The claim that he could see the shooting is also doubtful given his obstructed view from the south-east corner of 10th and Patton. The WC exhibit photos taken from his position indicate that his view was obstructed by the trees and shrubs of the corner house (400 Patton, occupied by the Davis sisters). He testified that when the shooting occurred he exited his cab (to the west, away from the shooter) in fear of either being shot or hijacked by the shooter. When he realized he could not escape in that way he crouched behind his cab, blocking the shooter's view of him (and vice versa). He "heard" the shooter exit throught the bushes on 400 Patton and only glimpsed him (most likely from the rear) for a brief time. Check his CE diagram and his view of the man with the fleeing gun. It only extends partway down Patton. Understandably, who wants to get shot as a witness and "if I can't see the shooter he can't see me" mentality prevails. Scoggins then went back into his cab and tried to get the attention of dispatch on his radio for some minutes before getting their attention. I am going from memory here but his ID of the gunman is flawed as he had the opportunity, as did many others who ID'ed LHO in the lineups, because he had the opportunity to see pictures of LHO in the newspaper or on TV prior to the lineup.

Benevides was returning to Patton in order to help fix a broken down car on Patton (somewhere between 10th and Jefferson if I recall correctly. On a side note....The car that Benevides was helping to fix, I believe he stated a faulty carb, was stalled in the middle of the road. Why didn't any of the other witnesses report this? What happened to this car? Shouldn't Scoggins have reported it as he had to get round it to park, unless it broke down while he was getting his lunch in the club? Benevides was travelling east to west and as he approached Tippit's parked car he saw the policeman get out and the shooting. He immediately turned into the curb on the north side of 10th near the shooting scene. Again, understandably, in fear of his own life he hid in his truck until he was sure the killer had left the scene. This has been reported to be some minutes as he thought the killer had entered a house and might return. Again, as with our other witnesses so far, all had but fleeting glimpses of the shooter and immediately after the shooting occured did not look at the shooter. Benevides does not immediately ID in a lineup and because of this, again his ID is flawed as he had opportunity to view pictures of LHO in the hours that followed.

With respect to the clothing of the shooter, I think all of these witnesses described the pants as dark but the jacket as tan (not white).

The Davis sisters claim that immediately upon hearing the shots they go to their front screen door, see and hear Markham screaming about the shooting and then see a man with a gun travel across the corner block in front of them and dissappear through the bushes. Barbara calls the police to report the shooting. I have not found any record of this. did this call appear in the records? Did this call result in the ambulance being sent? I understand the concensus was that it was the result of Bowley's call on Tippit's radio that resulted in the ambulance arrival. This call to police by Barbara Davis should have been some minutes before Bowley. With respect to the shooter's clothing, agan the sisters could not agree on the jacket colour!.

Calloway on the porch, in the used car lot, on the corner of Patton and Jefferson heard the shots, walked to the sidewalk and looked to his right up Patton. He saw a man with a gun on the opposite side of the street and according to his testimonly should have had the best opportunity to ID this person. He claims to have told another man to follow the gunman west on Jefferson and immediately went to the Tippit scene. However, he is contradicted by Guinyard another employee of the caryard who claims Calloway followed the man for a while and then came back. Also Calloway appears to have been heavily influenced in his ID of LHO in the lineup by the Dallas police. Interestingly, he is another witness who claimed to see a tan jacket on the gunman.

Calloway and other witnesses can be seen interviewed here

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=GjiOolyy_0I

Lastly the ejected shells tied to Oswald's gun are not found by police but by Benevides, who finds 2, only after he got to his mother's house and decided to go back and look for them. The other 2 were found by the Davis sisters 2-3 hours after the shooting. (ie hours after LHO's arrest at the theatre.

So we have flawed lineup ID's from witnesses who saw the man fleetingly, who were in fear of their safety, all trying to avoid being seen by him. At a time that it could not have been LHO walking from 1026 N Beckley. The only thing we might assume form their testimony is that the shooter was slim, 20-30, used a handgun and wore dark pants and a jacket (probably tan). His most likely escape route was south on Patton towards Jefferson.

I wonder if the guy stranded in the middle of the street between Jefferson and 10th and in his car was worried.......then again it doesn't seem anyone else saw him, so why should the shooter!!

Funny how it doesn't seem so cut and dried when you read the testimony.

PS The direction of witnesses by Dulles at critical times is noteworthy.

PPS Wonder the WC did not ask Calloway, Guinyard and others what time they thought all this took place. Would seem like a standard question to me.

Very good deductive reasoning Neville on these points.

See my post "Oswald and the Amazing Technicolor Jacket" for even more hilarious jacket comparisons.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...ost&p=86471

I liked how you prefaced "SAW" the shooting as Benavides states he heard a shot and ducked down only looking up to see Tippit on the ground and the shooter turning to leave. Markham with the hand over the eyes. and Scoggins hiding behind his cab.

Lets not forget the witnesses Acquilla Clemons and Frank Wright and how they were ignored by the authorities, but they chose the three blind mice to prop up the 'Oswald did it' fantasy.