Is anyone interested in Apollo missions...

[Jack White]

John and Sid...I applaud your debunking of the professional debunker.

The facts are on your side. Keep it up. Truth will prevail. Keep up the

good work. It is appreciated.

Jack

[Jack White]

That comment was basically added as an after thought. Nathaniel missed the part where I said the quick destruction of steel was largely a myth.

The steel wasn’t removed as quickly as the “inside jobbers” make out. The last steel wasn’t even removed from Ground Zero until 8 1/2 months after the attacks

http://www.wndu.com/news/052002/news_14322.php

During this period numerous volunteers as well as emergency personnel and construction crews etc had access to GZ. Many of the clean up workers came from controlled demolition companies. I don’t know of any reporting they saw anything suspicious.

A controlled demolition expert said “Our team, working at Ground Zero, including myself, never saw indication of explosive use that would have been evident after the event, You just can’t clean up all the det cord, shock tube, blasting cap remnants, copper backing from explosive charges, burn marks along clean-cut edges of columns, etc., nor is there any evidence in the thousands of photos taken by the press and dozens of agencies over the following days. I just can’t see how it happened that way.” http://www.wconline.com/CDA/Archive/24ae78...000f932a8c0____

An architect who doubts “the official story” who visited GZ a few weeks after -11 report he extensively examined and photographer structural steel from the towers and saw “no signs of melting” http://www.angelfire.com/ult/znewz1/wtc.htmlh

A Professor of structural engineering at the University of California Berkeley who study the collapses said he was given full access to wreckage of the towers http://www.designnews.com/article/CA636342...ndustryid=43653

The same controlled demolition expert quoted above spoke to the people who handled the steel and the told him there was no undue rush to remove the steel from GZ or the landfills where numerous forensic engineers and others had access to it. http://www.jod911.com/WTC%20COLLAPSE%20STU...rd%208-8-06.pdf pg. 8

Exerts who had access to the debris at the Fresh Kills Landfill came from 24 local, state, and federal agencies including 1000 FBI agents specially trained in evidence recovery from 55 cities. But hey they were all probably in on it. http://www.fbi.gov/page2/nov03/nyhs112703.htm

Dr W. Gene Corley, head of the American Society of Civil Engineers / Structural Engineers Association of New York ASCE / SEAoNY) Building Performance Assessment Team (BPAT), which produced the so called FEMA Report told the House of Representatives:

“There has been some concern expressed by others that the work of the team has been hampered because debris was removed from the site and has subsequently been processed for recycling. This is not the case. The team has had full access to the scrap yards and to the site and has been able to obtain numerous samples. At this point there is no indication that having access to each piece of steel from the World Trade Center would make a significant difference to understanding the performance of the structures".

www.house.gov/science/hearings/full02/mar06/corley.htm

The National Fire Protection Association, the Society of Fire Protection Engineers also participated in that initial study. Did any of the numerous highly qualified structural, civil and fire engineers from the ASCE, SEAoNY, NFPA or SFPE who participated in that study complain that inadequate access to the steel hampered their report? No. A few engineer who did not participate in that study the recyling of the steel compromised the final result but none of them challenged the collapse theory. One of them assistant fire chief, professor of fire science and (former) associate editor of Fire Engineering magazine Glenn Corbett worked on the more comprehensive NIST Report (also with about 200 other engineers most of who didn’t work for NIST or other federal agencies. Another was Corbett’s boss at the magazine, former chief editor Bill Manning (who isn’t a fire a engineer but a journalist) but he welcomed the NIST report.

http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Dis..._NUM=1&p=25

Over 1300 pieces of steel from the towers are still in a hanger at JFK Airport where I believe they are fairly available for inspection.

http://www.amny.com/entertainment/news/am-...gallery?index=1

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/NISTNCSTAR1-3BDraft.pdf

The theory that a combination of impact and fire damage caused the towers to collapse has yet to be challenged by anyone with relevant expertise and has been back by literally hundreds of highly qualified engineers.

For all the talk of people who believe just about every CT under the sun that they are free of mental conformity normally the exact opposite is true. Instead of conforming mentally to what they hear on Fox and see on other “MSM outlets” they do so with the CT cites they spend so much time on. It doesn’t seem to occur to them to independently verify what they read on them.

Nathaniel your coworkers and the "tweedy professors" you so disdain are right.

Len

So, Len

Turn things around a bit and debunk the government's 'conspiracy theory'. You can choose the 911 Report and the Warren Commission Report or any other comic book transparencies you hold so dear, keeping in mind, of course, that folks who have studied them don't really owe you an explanation of their opine.

Then again, disruputers are only successfull if they can defer the purpose of the continuing discussions on the lies that led us to wage wars. And while you're at it, have any of your friends and associates in New York been affected by the invironment created by the collapse of the WTC?

Bests,

John

John...we truthseekers have a GIANT ADVANTAGE over obfuscators like

Colby, Burton, Lamson et al.

They must be right ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE TIME. We only have

to be right ONE TIME. If we prove any one govt theory wrong, their whole

tower of lies collapses. For instance, it is SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSSIBLE

that CELL PHONE CALLS were made from Flight 93 per the official story.

There are hundreds of other examples.

If you have been following the thread on the moving firetruck at the

Pentagon, you will see that Ulman finally admitted the truck moved

around...but came up with an absurd TWO TRUCK THEORY to explain

it...a clear sign of desperation. And when they have no answers, they

resort to personal attacks...a certain sign of a weak position. Keep up

the good work.

I wonder just who employs these goons. They surely don't do it just for

amusement. Some work at it 24/7. My motive is truth. They have NO

APPARENT MOTIVE.

Jack

[Len Colby]

So, Len

Turn things around a bit and debunk the government's 'conspiracy theory'. You can choose the 911 Report and the Warren Commission Report or any other comic book transparencies you hold so dear,

Straw man, I never said I held either report dear.If you had been paying attention you'd have seen were in several places in this forum I have said that I believe JFK assassination was probably the result of a conspiracy. The only aspect of that case I've looked into is allegations that the Zapruder film and other DP images were altered thus normally this is the only aspect of the case I comment on. You also missed where I stated that the 9/11 Commission played political cover for various parties and various aspects of the case.

keeping in mind, of course, that folks who have studied them don't really owe you an explanation of their opine.

The idea of this like most other forums is for people to debate theories and ideas. If you don't want your opinions (opine is a verb) challenged then seek out a forum where they won't be. I guess you want to be able to make up "facts" about 9-11 to fit your theory, offer no corroborating evidence then stick your head in the sand when they are proved wrong and continue to insist you're right.

And while you're at it, have any of your friends and associates in New York been affected by the invironment created by the collapse of the WTC?

As a matter a fact a friend of mine lived very close to the WTC and he and wife got sick (esp. him). He was one the first and one the most outspoken people to complain about 'Ground Zero illness' aka 'World Trade Center syndrome' he has been interviewed by many major outlets, led groups and even testified before Congress. For his efforts he got death threats (presumably from local land lords) which he took seriously enough to move out of town for a few years. He dismisses 9/11 inside job theories as crap though. The EPA's cover-up of the environmental effects of the WTC collapses is one of the areas which the commission avoided because it was too politically thorny.

Len

And when they have no answers, they resort to personal attacks...a certain sign of a weak position. Keep up

the good work.

I wonder just who employs these goons. They surely don't do it just for

amusement. Some work at it 24/7. My motive is truth. They have NO

APPARENT MOTIVE.

LOL You're right Jack your resorting to personal attacks is a sign of your weak position. Uuuuuh, the irony! Edited October 2, 2006 by Len Colby

[John J. McCarthy]

That comment was basically added as an after thought. Nathaniel missed the part where I said the quick destruction of steel was largely a myth.

The steel wasn’t removed as quickly as the “inside jobbers” make out. The last steel wasn’t even removed from Ground Zero until 8 1/2 months after the attacks

http://www.wndu.com/news/052002/news_14322.php

During this period numerous volunteers as well as emergency personnel and construction crews etc had access to GZ. Many of the clean up workers came from controlled demolition companies. I don’t know of any reporting they saw anything suspicious.

A controlled demolition expert said “Our team, working at Ground Zero, including myself, never saw indication of explosive use that would have been evident after the event, You just can’t clean up all the det cord, shock tube, blasting cap remnants, copper backing from explosive charges, burn marks along clean-cut edges of columns, etc., nor is there any evidence in the thousands of photos taken by the press and dozens of agencies over the following days. I just can’t see how it happened that way.” http://www.wconline.com/CDA/Archive/24ae78...000f932a8c0____

An architect who doubts “the official story” who visited GZ a few weeks after -11 report he extensively examined and photographer structural steel from the towers and saw “no signs of melting” http://www.angelfire.com/ult/znewz1/wtc.htmlh

A Professor of structural engineering at the University of California Berkeley who study the collapses said he was given full access to wreckage of the towers http://www.designnews.com/article/CA636342...ndustryid=43653

The same controlled demolition expert quoted above spoke to the people who handled the steel and the told him there was no undue rush to remove the steel from GZ or the landfills where numerous forensic engineers and others had access to it. http://www.jod911.com/WTC%20COLLAPSE%20STU...rd%208-8-06.pdf pg. 8

Exerts who had access to the debris at the Fresh Kills Landfill came from 24 local, state, and federal agencies including 1000 FBI agents specially trained in evidence recovery from 55 cities. But hey they were all probably in on it. http://www.fbi.gov/page2/nov03/nyhs112703.htm

Dr W. Gene Corley, head of the American Society of Civil Engineers / Structural Engineers Association of New York ASCE / SEAoNY) Building Performance Assessment Team (BPAT), which produced the so called FEMA Report told the House of Representatives:

“There has been some concern expressed by others that the work of the team has been hampered because debris was removed from the site and has subsequently been processed for recycling. This is not the case. The team has had full access to the scrap yards and to the site and has been able to obtain numerous samples. At this point there is no indication that having access to each piece of steel from the World Trade Center would make a significant difference to understanding the performance of the structures".

www.house.gov/science/hearings/full02/mar06/corley.htm

The National Fire Protection Association, the Society of Fire Protection Engineers also participated in that initial study. Did any of the numerous highly qualified structural, civil and fire engineers from the ASCE, SEAoNY, NFPA or SFPE who participated in that study complain that inadequate access to the steel hampered their report? No. A few engineer who did not participate in that study the recyling of the steel compromised the final result but none of them challenged the collapse theory. One of them assistant fire chief, professor of fire science and (former) associate editor of Fire Engineering magazine Glenn Corbett worked on the more comprehensive NIST Report (also with about 200 other engineers most of who didn’t work for NIST or other federal agencies. Another was Corbett’s boss at the magazine, former chief editor Bill Manning (who isn’t a fire a engineer but a journalist) but he welcomed the NIST report.

http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Dis..._NUM=1&p=25

Over 1300 pieces of steel from the towers are still in a hanger at JFK Airport where I believe they are fairly available for inspection.

http://www.amny.com/entertainment/news/am-...gallery?index=1

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/NISTNCSTAR1-3BDraft.pdf

The theory that a combination of impact and fire damage caused the towers to collapse has yet to be challenged by anyone with relevant expertise and has been back by literally hundreds of highly qualified engineers.

For all the talk of people who believe just about every CT under the sun that they are free of mental conformity normally the exact opposite is true. Instead of conforming mentally to what they hear on Fox and see on other “MSM outlets” they do so with the CT cites they spend so much time on. It doesn’t seem to occur to them to independently verify what they read on them.

Nathaniel your coworkers and the "tweedy professors" you so disdain are right.

Len

So, Len

Turn things around a bit and debunk the government's 'conspiracy theory'. You can choose the 911 Report and the Warren Commission Report or any other comic book transparencies you hold so dear, keeping in mind, of course, that folks who have studied them don't really owe you an explanation of their opine.

Then again, disruputers are only successfull if they can defer the purpose of the continuing discussions on the lies that led us to wage wars. And while you're at it, have any of your friends and associates in New York been affected by the invironment created by the collapse of the WTC?

Bests,

John

John...we truthseekers have a GIANT ADVANTAGE over obfuscators like

Colby, Burton, Lamson et al.

They must be right ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE TIME. We only have

to be right ONE TIME. If we prove any one govt theory wrong, their whole

tower of lies collapses. For instance, it is SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSSIBLE

that CELL PHONE CALLS were made from Flight 93 per the official story.

There are hundreds of other examples.

If you have been following the thread on the moving firetruck at the

Pentagon, you will see that Ulman finally admitted the truck moved

around...but came up with an absurd TWO TRUCK THEORY to explain

it...a clear sign of desperation. And when they have no answers, they

resort to personal attacks...a certain sign of a weak position. Keep up

the good work.

I wonder just who employs these goons. They surely don't do it just for

amusement. Some work at it 24/7. My motive is truth. They have NO

APPARENT MOTIVE.

Jack

Hello, Jack

It's the 'strike breaker' mentality. As mentioned in the Conspiracy Theorists article on this site,

all we are doing is asking questions. It is the governments story that is weak. We have no answers, just questions so the nay sayers attack with "show us your proof". Nay nay, monsior. That is NOT our job.

And you are correct, when they can't answer our questions, they go to the personal attack mode. Not to worry. Combat vets have no fear. And certainly not from shills who's claim to fame is breathing free air provided by those who provided the ultimate sacrifices. The gravy comes when slowly but surely, the perps in this case of mass murder will be confronted with irrefutable evidence that 911 was orchestrated by those who had the agenda to go to war in violation of international law. 911 begat the Patriot Act, damned near word for word with the German Enabling Act, which also stripped the German people from their Constitutional Rights, followed by the War Powers Act, signed by elected officials who didn't even read it, in violation of their oaths of office, which led to the preemptive attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq only to find out that Osama bin Ladan had nada to do with 911. And, of course, there were no WMD.

The film of the presidents recent explanation that he saw the first plane hit the WTC tower on televison is brilliant. The first plane to hit the tower was NOT broadcasted live. When the president was advised, by whisper, that the second plane had hit the WTC tower, he had that 500 yard stare not unlike Michael Corleone in the Godfather as he attended the baptism of his Godchild in a church in New York as flicks of assassinations were depicted across the country. No secret service action is quite telling.

But these are only things we observe that point to the discrepencies in the position of the government. I know something about the "positions of the government"; they change to fit the circumstance in the face of reality.

As a former police officer, I know the relevance and importance of a crime scene. It is unbelievable that the 911 mass murder scene was destroyed. And that is a crime in itself.

I have observed the heavy hand of government interferance. Mob hits in Miami were taken over by the FBI who, it turns out twenty years later, were complicit in the damn murders. Our government is the most corrupt organization on the planet and has been for the past 80 years. So many lies, so many deaths, so few have or will be rectified and that is our legacy. The present Texas Mafia is just another example of what this country tolerates, blindly.

And now we have representatives threatening to 'bomb people back to the stone age' not thinking that some of these countries may very well put a nuke on us for our arrogant posture. I am very surprised that scenario has not presented itself.

Bests,

John

[Len Colby]

Your saying my conclusions are wrong is just you saying so, not substantialted, just mean spirited and baseless, conclusions spewed forth with the debunker mindset you are adicted too.

I said your facts were wrong. Your offered no supporting evidence and I provided evidence that show they were false. I do believe your conclusions are wrong because the facts do not support them. It is the “inside jobbers” here who have by in large been unable to back their assertions

Perhaps you will debunk this movie for us. Jim Fetzer liked it so I can assume you will 'nit pick' it for both of us.

Fetzer is an at times dishonest sloppy researcher, I don’t find it surprising he would been impressed by this “movie”.

Asking me to debunk an entire 90 film is a bit unreasonable perhaps you can tell us what parts you found especially compelling (and the time stamp where they appear).

On another JFK forum someone posted a link to the same video and I sent him this reply

I skimmed through the first one, seems like the same debunked crap

-Comparing the concrete framed Windsor Tower to the steel framed WTC, you do know that the steel perimeter columns (the only steel part of the building) started falling off after 2 - 3 hours?http://www.arup.com/fire/feature.cfm?pageid=6150 And that people heard explosions there too?

-Taking the Chief Palmer quote out of context he saw "2 isolated pockets of fire" while in a stairwell on a floor NIST said didn't have big fires. Funny that they show a clip of a pretty strong fire for that

-Citing Leslie Robertson as a credible witness when he said they calculated the towers would survive a plane crash but insinuating he was lying when he said they didn't calculate the effects of the resulting fire and ignoring when he said they calculated for a “slow flying” 707 , i.e. about 180 MPH, when the towers are believed to have been hit at 470 and 590 MPH

-Ignoring NIST's explaination of why the core collapsed

etc. etc. etc.

And the was one really stupid comment about how we should have heard the sound of an explosion after the collapse because it travels slower tan light. Well lets see the speed of sound is about 750 mph the impact zone of the South Tower was about 950 feet 2/11 of a milethere should have been about 1/4100 of an hour less than a second might it be that something snapped just before collapse.

Didn’t they say something about the towers collapsing at free fall speed? LOL they show clips of the falling debris out racing the collapse wave.”

Another member of the forum a known (conspiracist) JFK researcher said:

“OK--let's get real here.

One of the witnesses in the South tower, who had experienced MANY occasions of swaying caused by the wind, said that when the plane hit, the tower swayed so much that he thought it was going to fall over. The video claims that the impact was no more than the wind would cause. That isn't true. The statement is also made that the core "disappeared." Also not true.

As for the witnesses, they are describing as best they can something that no one had ever before witnessed. Of course they sought parallels in what they knew from the movies, but the fact that they interpreted loud noises as "explosions" isn't evidence. A sound is described as "the sound of an explosion" just before the first tower collapsed. It sounded nothing like an explosion.

They keep talking about steel melting, which no one claims. The heat WEAKENED the steel, it didn't melt it.

Demolition footage is used in a highly msleading way--note that in those films, the explosions occur at the lower floors, and the upper floors collapse downward. No one has claimed explosions in the lower part of the buildings, and no films show anything resembling that. The demolition footage is irrelevant. The only similarity is

the clouds of dust, which would occur no matter HOW the building falls. The pressure of air being forced out the sides of the building would cause material to blow explosively outward if the floors were collapsing into each other. The narrator refers to things thrown "all the way across the street" as though that amount of force translates as a detonated explosions. Hogwash. As the falling buildings tipped,

material could FALL across the street. The air pressure explains the rest.

There is also a remarkably silly bit about bone fragments on a nearby roof--and how small they were--smaller fragments are more LIKELY to be thrown further.

All this amid silly over-dramatic music, designed to make it all sound important. The narrator claims the tower "turns to dust" in midair--actually, the dust CONCEALS what is happening to the tower. The claim is idiotic.

So is the claim that the falling floors encountered "no resistance." Think about it. That would require the internal structure of the building to have vanished almost as soon as people left those floors. Total nonsense. She later says again that the core of the building "all of a sudden disappear"[ed]. Ridiculous. Showing a photo of mostly dust, the narrator pretends to be able to see through it, because she claims to "know" what was happening inside that dust cloud, although she doesn't state that because it would sound as dumb as it should. Even funnier, the expert then cited is a SOFTWARE engineer, not a structural engineer. That reminds me of the electrical engineer that wrote the racist book on genetics--no qualifications whatsoever for what he's talking about here. He claims that they had to have "explosives placed all over at all of the primary joints." Utterly moronic. There is no evidence for this in the films. He claims that his theory is supported by the floors "picking up speed" as they fell--but the physics of falling objects predicts acceleration.

A "pancake collapse" is shown--but of a building of only a few stories. Because the 100-plus World Trade Center doesn't look the same, this is said to be evidence that it wasn't a pancake collapse. Another obvious misrepresentation.The narrator asks "Wouldn't a pancake collapse have trapped the papers inside"? The answer, of course, is no--air pressure would send the papers flying, but she treats the question as an answer. It's a wrong answer. Another thing she forgets is that if there were so many explosions "at all of the primary joints," the papers would have been

burned or charred--but we don't see that.

[…]

The video makes no sense—and this is just part one. I stopped there--nothing to persuade me that parts 2 or 3 would be worth wasting more of my time.

[John J. McCarthy]

When the autopsies of the dead begin to show elements of nuclear radiation poisoning in the organs of those first responders and others who were told by the EPA that the air quality at WTC was fit to breathe, the studies of articles like the one below will take on a new interest.

It would be lovely if they could be debunked, but they can't be. The conclusion is terrible. Those who planned and allowed this mass murder deserve the wrath of this nation.

http://johnmccarthy90066.tripod.com/id472.html

Bests,

John McCarthy

[David G. Healy]

Len Colby' wrote:

[...]

Fetzer is an at times dishonest sloppy researcher, I don’t find it surprising he would been impressed by this “movie”.

[...]

dishonest??? Post "proof" of the above assertion -- or retract it

Edited October 2, 2006 by David G. Healy

[Craig Lamson]

Len Colby' wrote:

[...]

Fetzer is an at times dishonest sloppy researcher, I don’t find it surprising he would been impressed by this “movie”.

[...]

dishonest??? Post "proof" of the above assertion -- or retract it

How about "Moorman in the street" or the entire tome on Wellstone. Fetzer simply sucks at this stuff.

[John J. McCarthy]

Len Colby' wrote:

[...]

Fetzer is an at times dishonest sloppy researcher, I don’t find it surprising he would been impressed by this “movie”.

[...]

dishonest??? Post "proof" of the above assertion -- or retract it

How about "Moorman in the street" or the entire tome on Wellstone. Fetzer simply sucks at this stuff.

Nay sayers unite! Let us know when you can answer simple inquiries instead of twisting them into farcicle erroneous assertions. Nite nite! Don't let the truth hurt ya.

Bests,

John McCarthy

[John J. McCarthy]

From: "shaman_nation" <edward19@cox.net>

[Add to Address Book]

To: v911t@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [v911t] American: Patriot to Profiteer - Aaron Russo

Date: Monday, October 02, 2006 4:55:08 PM [View Source]

American: Patriot to Profiteer - Aaron Russo

An in depth review of "America: Freedom to Fascism''

http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/06/10/02/ward.htm

The Movie That Will Cause the Declaration of Worldwide Martial Law.

That's my review of Aaron Russo's Masterpiece of Rights. I cannot put

it more strongly or simply. One way or the other, this is the movie

of your life. The movie will make you sick to your stomach and aware

of what the US government is doing by documented evidence of Both

Political Parties' activity. We must act now or forever live in fear.

''America: Freedom to Fascism''' (A:FtF) is an extremely needed

exceptional movie for the exposure and reform of this government's

abuse of America. As one of the many activists that try to stay

current with all areas of the Constitutional abuses of this

government, enthusiastic surprise and relief overtook me as a post

revealed "Aaron Russo's -'' America: Freedom to Fascism - Full

Version - For movie screening only" on google video. Finally, here

was the movie in which many are placing their hopes for release and

discovery of much needed information available for mass consumption.

My anticipation was gleefully rewarded as the illegal IRS government

scam was thoroughly shown as the defrauding of US citizens by the un-

Constitutional and illegal actions of both parties, the judiciary of

this current government and all past 'representatives' of the People

since 1913. The IRS aspect consumes about 2/3rds of the movie time.

In the remaining time it progresses to the private bankers that set

the stage for the IRS deception via the private Federal Reserve Bank

corporatists.

Some specific examples of the tyranny being performed by this

government upon its people follow. It was nice to see the fascist

actions employed upon myself portrayed when the movie shows

government actions in the Katrina disaster.

After that, comes 'ze papers' in this government's effort to

neutralize anyone without the official 'papers' and the progression

from papers to RFID - Radio Frequency ID. Not only will every move

and transaction be logged, but transactions themselves will require

your 'radio papers'. Your survivability will revolve around your

RFID. No RFID - no money, no transactions, no food - indeed, your

very existence vanishes. With a single click an individual, a group,

or every person on the planet can simply be vanquished to poverty and

anonymity.

The information is far too valuable to be allowed to be trickled out

into oblivion for the filling of ones pocket. Mr. Russo seems more

concerned with his savings account than saving America. So much so,

that he is destroying the value of his supposed patriotic production.

America waited for months with hype of his big opening in theaters

around the country.

On July 28, it opened in 10 theaters where approximately 9,000 people

viewed it in the first week. So far 13 cities have shown or 'pledged'

a showing of the film. Being generous with the stats, in one month

only 12 cities and 36,000 people have even had a chance to see

America: Freedom to Fascism. Again, being generous in the stats, in a

years time, 150 cities and 1/2 a million people will have seen the

picture. In a decade, 1,500 cities and five million people will have

seen the movie. In 10 decades, a century 15,000 the cities and 50

million people will have had access to this movie. With roughly

20,000 cities and 290 million people a whole century will only allow

1/6 of the population and only 3/4 of the number of cities to view

the film. By the time this movie is seen by the number of people

needed to take action, they will all be dead of old age, if this

current government allows them to live that long. In the first month,

between donations and ticket sales the movie has grossed 3/4 of a

million dollars. This is not the action of a patriot nor anyone

actually concerned with getting the truth known about this government

for action of the people. This so called big showing across America

for freedom is nothing more than a method of filling Mr. Russo's

wallet at the expense of the relevance of the movie.

We re grateful to the Washington Post, the NY Times, Time Magazine,

and other great publications whose directors have attended our

meetings (Bilderberg) and respected their promises of discretion for

almost 40 years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our

plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of

publicity during those years. But now the world is more sophisticated

and prepared to march toward a world government. The supra national

sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely

preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past

centuries. David Rockefeller, a member of the Council on Foreign

Relations, actually believes that we would be better off if he and

his banker friends ran the world." In a similar thought process, Mr.

Russo expects us to believe that the corporate media will mass market

a film that exposes their practices. This sham theory of getting the

corporate media to mass distribute and show a movie which literally

cuts their own throats is hogwash. The corporations are not going to

show a movie that shows them as co-conspirators in this government's

tyranny. The idea is ludicrous to even suggest it.

'I am not a virgin that just fell off the cabbage truck in the big

city of government fascism. Eight years of research and writing on

the constitutional abuses of this government have preceded my viewing

of A:FtF. Knowledge of Northwoods presented to others prior to Dylan

Avery's film "Loose Change." Still, the sickening feeling of

queasiness in my guts during those two tidbits of knowledge was

notable. The fact that I felt that same feeling upon viewing A:FtF is

remarkable and a testament to this vital film. The concise spectrum,

depth and method of presentation of the information in A:FtF in such

a short period of time is truly a masterpiece of art. This film must

be seen by massive dispersal to the public in an equally short period

of time to capitalize on its viewing effects. Limited dispersal is

counterproductive to a swelling of the outrage that must be shown by

peaceful demonstrated resistance to this government's tyranny.

It is my firm opinion that A:FtF must be distributed by ALL routes of

distribution, theater, DVD, net, house parties or get-togethers,

private showings, bbqs, etc, anything within the limits of your

imagination. A 3-hour marathon of A:FtF followed by "Loose Change"

(although recent evidence reveals that the "no plane" concept

regarding a 767 hitting the pentagon is flawed and will hopefully be

corrected in the Final Edition) is certainly a devastating blow to

tyranny. There will be vast numbers of people that have been

disheartened and in despair looking to have their voice heard. Those

activists that are lucky enough to get the movie shown in their

cities have an excellent opportunity to organize those in their area

by distributing contact information for a peaceful, nonviolent

organization to let those voices be heard and felt by this

government. Lines entering and especially leaving the theater are

people looking for a way to change this nation from one of tyranny to

one once again ruled by the original intent of the Constitution, a

nation ruled by The People.

It is also my opinion that an appendage should be made to A:FtF DVDs

and net showings to see the theater release and for contributions to

A:FtF to assist Aaron for his efforts in the movie as well as his

financial assistance. Furthermore, reference to an activist

organization of A:FtF to address actual active remedy of the abuses

of this government could also be inserted. Unfortunately, after

contacting Mr. Russo, this concept is not a current option and is on

the back burner for future possibilities.

Aaron Russo's - America: Freedom to Fascism - a Pre-Release Full

Movie (this is not the final cut, but is a great representation of

the significant abuses of our government) - 1 3/4 hour - For Movie

Screening Only. Officially, there is condemnation of the several

hundred brave pirate patriots that can be found by doing a google

search on the topic ("America: Freedom to Fascism" bittorrent).

Almost all the sites recommend that you contribute to A:FtF. That is

not my recommendation. My recommendation is that you see the movie in

a theater when and if it ever gets to a theater near you. This should

give Mr. Russo added incentive to release the movie on a much broader

scale and not assist in the current strangled release.

'Utorrent' is a specific free program used to download bittorrent

files from the net. The speed of the download is dependent on your

computer allowing others to download from your computer during the

process of you downloading it. This process does not give access to

your files. It merely uses your computers bandwidth when not being

used by you to assist others in sharing a bittorent file. The program

is fairly simple to use, but there are a couple insights that must be

noted during the setup. In choosing a port for the program, use a

port number from 16881 to 16889. If you have a firewall, the port

used must also be noted as an approved port in your firewall program.

If this is not done, the download will take days. With the port

opened the download via a broadband connection a file of 700 MB will

take less than a couple hours. Just install the program to run when

you need it. Do not install the program in the start up menu.

'''There is evidence that the internet has reached market saturation

for dispersal of information. There are 220 million adults 'in the US

out of 296 million total population. Approximately 137 million adults

and children have internet access. About 80 million adults believe

the US government either planned or assisted 911. About 50 million

children have internet access at home. In essence almost all current

dispersal of information on the net is to those that already know the

truth. Activism on the internet is basically a non productive

enterprise except for organization. It is imperative that rights

activists shift information and activism venues from the net to the

public in general.'''

The best hope for this nation appears to be the organized philosophy

of Debra Sweet, in The World Can't Wait campaign for the strength of

The People to be seen and felt on October 5, 2006 in a Day of Mass

Resistance. At first there were concerns this was merely 'another

democrat ploy organization for a regime change and not a regime

removal. Subsequent research resolved most of those concerns by the

noting of democrat participation in our current rule by elitists.

This interview by Maryland's US senate candidate, Kevin Zeese, notes

that the removal of the Bush regime is merely the first step in a

regime removal movement on the neo-fascists in both parties.

Hopefully, this is just the first of a series of demonstrations and

actions to force the return of Constitutional rights and peace by The

People to have those rights returned. The USA Today full page ad on

September 21, 1006, calls for taking off work and demonstrating for

your rights at high noon on October 5, 2006. If you value your rights

enough to actually do something about them, I urge you to join this

organization and participate in the first step on a path to a

Constitutional government.'''

If you live in the New Orleans area and would like to participate on

October 5, 2006, contact: edward19(at)cox.net . No demonstration

planned in your area? Organize your own.

Legal Disclaimer: This article is entirely, completely and only my

opinion based on the interpretation of the referenced information.

While the views above may be shared by many millions exhausted by

this government, they are only my views and I do not imply that they

are actually shared by anyone else.

This article is not copyrighted and may be published, copied,

dispersed, posted, and transported as long as the original URL, and

authors" credit accompany it.

Downsize DC, http://www.downsizedc.org/mission.shtml - Read The Bill

Act, http://www.downsizedc.org/rtba_legislation.shtml - Gov pressured

to release spending info in Show Me the Money,

http://action.downsizedc.org/wyc.php?cid=55. Many other quick and

simple ways to email your voice on Constitutional rights and

organizing for activism -

https://secure.downsizedc.org/rtba/coalition/.

Dei Jurum Conventus

Ed Ward, MD; http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/arc_ward.htm

Independent writer/Media Liaison for The Price of Liberty;

http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bests,

John McCarthy

[John J. McCarthy]

Don’t know if I agree with all of his conclusions. However, I have always wondered why some people are drawn into the various CT’s. and he does make some compelling arguments.

As others have observed, there is usually a significant cross-over between the various CT’s – i.e. many of those who believe the 9-11 CT’s also believe the JFK CT’s which fits in with the first half of the paragraph quoted above.

Me thinks that many of the same folks who don't believe the accuracy of the Warren Commission Report any more than they believe the 911 Report do so for the same reasons. The government CT's are providing specious arguments and eggregious assertions to jam their false claims down the historical throat of Amerika.

When these same bogus assertions do not stand the test of time, then we see the tag lines emerge and diversionary tactics evolve to styfle the dissent of justly concerned citizens. Welcome to Amerika.

Bests,

John McCarthy

Edited October 3, 2006 by John J. McCarthy

[John J. McCarthy]

http://johnmccarthy90066.tripod.com/id390.html

Bests,

John McCarthy

[John J. McCarthy]

http://www.pissedoffcombatveterans.com/id25.html

Bests,

John McCarthy

[John J. McCarthy]

The key to solving the mass murder of 911 lies in the irrifutable evidence that the WTC Towers and #7 were brought down by controlled demolitions. Physics and other sciences have said so, without equivication.

That declaration is all that is necessary to debunk the government's CT.

http://www.v911t.org/911Physics.php

Bests,

John McCarthy

Edited October 3, 2006 by John J. McCarthy

[Len Colby]

Len Colby' wrote:

[...]

Fetzer is an at times dishonest sloppy researcher, I don’t find it surprising he would been impressed by this “movie”.

[...]

dishonest??? Post "proof" of the above assertion -- or retract it

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...ost&p=76618

I was going to let that go as an offhand comment but since Mr. Healy asked for proof I will oblige him. There is an old adage among lawyers, ‘never ask a witness a question if you don’t know the answer’.

David do you really think I would say such a thing if I didn’t have proof of your buddy being intellectually dishonest?

I already outlined some of Fetzer’s lies in another thread http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...ost&p=40521

Fetzer lied twice during his presentation at the “American Scholars’ Symposium (June 24 or 25 this year) an event organized by Alex Jones which was videotaped and is available on Google Video http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=86...etzer&hl=en

39 minutes into it he declared “under federal law when ever there is an aircraft crash of the kind that occurred here the National Transportation Safety Board is obliged to carry out an investigation. Do you know that to this day the national Transportation Safety Board has not investigated one of the crashes on 9/11, not one”. This is incorrect because by federal law “the Safety Board does not investigate criminal activity” and once “the Attorney General, in consultation with the Chairman of the Safety Board notifies the Board that circumstances reasonably indicate that the accident may have been caused by an intentional criminal act” “the FBI becomes the lead federal investigative body, with the NTSB providing any requested support”

www.ntsb.gov/Abt_NTSB/invest.htm

OR

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:oPAs2M...NTSB/invest.htm

OR see below

Fetzer knows this of course because he repeatedly cited (and at times misquoted) the law and NTSB policy quoted above in his book and articles about the Wellstone crash.

American Assassination, chapter 7, ‘Alternative Explainations’ section, pg 129 – 130 (1st edition) he even provided the above NTSB link as his source.

http://www.assassinationscience.com/ThompsonReview.pdf

http://www.assassinationscience.com/About_...f_a_Senator.pdf

www.assassinationscience.com/About_AMERICAN_ASSASSINATION.pdf

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/...ne.shtml#_edn56

Fetzer told another lie in that presentation, 20 minutes into it he said the largest item found in the wreckage of the Twin Towers was a “little tiny segment off of a phone” and indicated something about the size of a quarter with his fingers. However numerous larger items were found (http://www.amny.com/entertainment/news/am-...allery?index=25 http://americanhistory.si.edu/september11/...&location=1 ) including a crystal globe paper weight from Tiffany’s which a FBI gave to his secretary http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.htm...20Department%20 . Fetzer knows this too because he wrote about it in his book about Wellstone, “…the FBI’s Minnesota Evidence Respones Team had been accused of stealing evidence from the World Trade Center site where they had been sent to investigate. The stolen evidence was a valuable Tiffany’s paperweight…”

American Assassination, chapter 3, ‘Crash Scene Wreckage’ section, pg 51 (1st edition)

He also lied by omission several times in the Wellstone book failing to inform his readers that 1) Conry (the pilot) told one of his oldest and closest friends who was himself a pilot that he had difficulty flying, especially taking of and landing King Airs, the accident plane was a King Air on approach (part of the landing phase), 2) Conry told his wife the other pilots at the company thought that Guess, the co-pilot, was incompetent, 3)Guess was fired from his previous piloting job (a sky diving company) for incompetence 4) one of the pilots at the company said that Guess had difficulty landing on his own 5) Conry almost certainly had far fewer flight hours than he claimed 6) most of those flight hours were accumulated before a 12 hiatus due to being sent jail and being legally blind 7) he had lasik surgery to improve his vision but was still required by the FAA to use corrective lens, his wife and friend said he didn’t and the coroner didn’t find any evidence he was 8) three days before the crash Conry screwed up so badly his co pilot suggested he retire 9) a colleague said Conry nearly crashed into the control tower when taking off 10) the pilot who said Conry was very careful had not flown with him for about 12 years 11) the plane didn’t suddenly turn off course, the plane missed a turn off and was on the wrong vector for several minutes 12) there was a problem with the beacon at the airport FAA tests carried out shortly after the crash led pilots very close to the crash location 13) Conry normally let his co-pilots fly so much that many said they could not judge his piloting skills others said he had a tendency to become distracted 14) 3 days before the crash he fell asleep between flights, the day before the crash he waken at 1:30 AM to go on a last minute flight, according to the co-pilot he looked so sick the passengers who were Red Cross personnel were afraid to go near him 15) during his biannual flight check 2 days before the crash the instructor had to coach him to respond faster to simulated engine failure, a scenario similar to a stall which the NTSB determined was the cause of the crash (All of the above is documented in the thread about the Wellstone book). This information can be found in the same NTSB and news reports he based his book on

Len

“Investigations Involving Criminal Activity

In cases of suspected criminal activity, other agencies may participate in the investigation. The Safety Board does not investigate criminal activity; in the past, once it has been established that a transportation tragedy is, in fact, a criminal act, the FBI becomes the lead federal investigative body, with the NTSB providing any requested support.

[…]

As the result of recent legislation, the NTSB will surrender lead status on a transportation accident only if the Attorney General, in consultation with the Chairman of the Safety Board, notifies the Board that circumstances reasonably indicate that the accident may have been caused by an intentional criminal act.”