David Josephs

When we apply PD Scott's Phase 1 phase 2 theory it, to me, seems obvious. In a car with others = Oswald getting undercover credibility = double edge sword, same info incriminates Oswald. When Mexico comes to light we'd find that he went to and returned from with others, ergo a conspiracy. Then add Alvarado showing up and telling his story a few days after the fact... But then phase 2 kicks in and anything "conspiracy" must disappear. Alvarado is the perfect example of this flip flop... and of being a Phillips asset in the Oswald "project"... I just don't think that activity related to Oswald in the months prior to the assassination specifically had anything to do with the assassination but his FBI/CIA "job". You can't have Arthur Vallee being set-up in early Nov is Oswald and Mexico were directly related to the assassination unless Vallee was to give credibility to the notion that JFK was being targeted. FBI reports out of Chicago after the 22nd, attempt to connect Vallee with Oswald! The physical reality of his being there during those key days simply doesn't pan out as one takes a closer look. Win Scott, Amb Mann and the FBI could not find one item of evidence where Oswald was anywhere other than where the CIA transcripts placed him. Odio is, imo, a credible witness to Oswald in Dallas when the FBI/CIA has him in Mexico. If she wasn't credible they could have done what they did to Osbourne - simply not believe what was said or witnessed. Instead we get Odio's info buried in the last month before publication... How sure does a person need to be? Mrs. ODIO. She said, "Sylvia, you know that man?" And I said, "Yes," and she said, "I know him." "He was the one that came to our door, and it couldn't be so, could it?" Mr. LIEBELER. Did she think it was Oswald?Mrs. ODIO. Well, her reaction to it when Oswald came on television, she almost passed out on me, just like I did the day at work when I learned about the assassination of the President. Her reaction was so obvious that it was him, I mean. And my reaction, we remember Oswald the day he came to my house because he had not shaved and he had a kind of a very, I don't know how to express it, but some little hairs like if you haven't shaved, but it is not a thick moustache, but some kind of shadow. That is something I noticed. And he was wearing--the other ones were wearing white dirty shirts, but he was wearing a long sleeved shirt. Mr. LIEBELER. But they did in fact, introduce him as Leon Oswald? Mrs. ODIO. And I shook hands with him. Mr. LIEBELER. I show you a photograph that has been marked as Bringuier Exhibit No. 1, and ask you if you can identify anybody in that photograph? Mrs. ODIO. That is Oswald. Mr. LIEBELER With the X? Mrs. ODIO. Yes.

You make some very interesting points Kirk... so in turn, one would expect the Mexico records to be sketchy... yet amazingly the FBI was able to ID and follow up on scores of passengers and bus station employees involved with this travel directly from the records which were kept. We know the # of tickets, which envelopes they are placed, how they are forwarded, and on and on allowing the FBI to generate thousands of reports in its attempt to convince us of this trip. The only "sketchy" evidence remains Oswald's. A good example is a man named Voorhees. A confused 73 year old man... see CE 2460.. prroblem with Voorhees is no corroboration and in fact conflicting info out of San Luis Potosi. In true FBI form there are sprinkles of the truth covering the sh!t sundae, so maybe you won't notice... So the question is - what would be the purpose of getting Oswald to MC in a car in the company of others - both coming and going if we are certain that the mystery man charade had nothing to do with the physical person Oswald? Peter Dale Scott answers with his Phase 1 & 2 scenario - on Oct 8 when this comes to light, the CIA is sheep-dipping Oswald as a Castro-ite - whether in a conspiracy to kill JFK or simply to give Oswald more "street credibility" when he returned to his CIA related work... the evidence appears to initially put Ozzie with other. (note: the entire BRILL episode is interesting as well as they were the only young white couple in a car entering at Neuvo Laredo...

A woman named Elizabeth Catlett Mora - an American Communist in Mexico with a "Bufile" was informed upon by "sources" (T-22) In 1957, Armstrong writes that Oswald and his 8-man squad went from LA to Tijuana Mexico. Allen Felde corroborates. Another instance involved Delgado. WCR p687 In the spring of 1959 Delgado, Oswald, and two other Marines (probably roommates PFC Watts and PFC Wold) traveled to Tijuana, Mexico. When they arrived Oswald poil).ted out the "Flamingo" bar and said it was the best place to have a good time. The entire group then went looking for a "house with girls." Later, after spending time with the girls, the group went to a small hotel for the night where each Marine had his own room. -H&L p226 NOTE: Tony Varona told the HSCA about discussions between himself and Carlos Bringuier concerning Oswald's visits to Mexico and Cuba. Varona said, "He (Oswald) had traveled to Mexico and from Mexico he went to Cuba and came back to Mexico." When asked if Oswald's trip to Cuba was in 1961, Varona said, "/don't know the date, but it must have been during that period. "141

Hi Kirk.... The evidence offered for Oswald's bus ride from Monterrey to Mexico City is the FLECHA ROJAS passenger manifest showing Lee H OSWALJ, BOWEN & McFARLAND. Mumford and Winston were on a "scheme" that allowed them to get on and off buses. We spent one day in Monterrey and left by bus at 7:30 p.m. at Monterrey, and it was on that bus that we met Lee Harvey Oswald. "WCD1245 p274 is the beginning of the typed version passenger list #11889 for Flecha Rojas bus #516 for passengers who ONLY got on in Monterrey (i.e. Mumford and Winston). Their names, as expected, do not appear on this list." They're not on the list because they took a different bus. They took the Del Norte bus Miss MUMFORD. Well, the ticket we had on this deal enabled us only to travel in the States, not in Mexico. So, we bought the ticket on the bus at Laredo and that enabled us to stop off in Monterrey. But the ticket was from Laredo to Mexico City. Mr. BALL. And from what company did you buy the ticket? Miss MUMFORD. As far as I can remember, it was a bus company called Transporter del Norte. Mr. BALL. Now, you got on the bus at Monterrey on the evening of September 26 at 7:30 p.m., you just told me? Miss MUMFORD. Yes. Mr. BALL. And what was the company that operated that bus, do you know? Miss MUMFORD. That was also Transporter del Norte. Miss MUMFORD. Oswald was the first one we spoke to. He left his seat and came down to the back of the bus to speak to us. Mr. BALL. That was after the bus had left Monterrey? Miss MUMFORD. Yes …. Then we arrived in the Mexico City bus station and he didn't speak to us, attempt to speak to us at all. He was one of the first off the bus and the last I remember seeing him he was standing across the end of the room. The McFarland affidavit confirms they left Monterrey with the Australian women and claims that Oswald was seated next to Bowen "the elderly man" This is the FLECHA ROJAS manifest "proving" how Oswald went to Mexico City. This bus leaves Monterrey at 3:30pm. The bus from Nuevo Laredo left at 2pm. In both CE2532 and CE2121 p32 (the NY Times account of the trip) we find the FBI concluding that this Oswald traveling as H.O. LEE, took a 2:30pm 9/26 Flecha Rojas bus from Nuevo Laredo to Mexico City via Monterrey. It's 135 miles from Nuevo Laredo to Monterrey on a bus that can barely make 45mph... Obviously (except to the FBI) Oswald cannot board a bus at 2pm and then leave on another bus 135 miles away only 1.5hrs later. This fictitious Oswald was not on a bus with these people... Bowen/Osbourne denies it, the evidence denies it and then there's this little tidbit about the Australian witness who supposedly adds corroboration to the FBI's evidence.... (May 19, 1964) Mr. BALL. Well, you were shown pictures of a man (Bowen/Osborne) later on by the Federal Bureau of Investigation agent, were you not? Miss MUMFORD. Yes. Mr. BALL. And they showed you pictures of Oswald, didn't they; Lee Harvey Oswald? Miss MUMFORD. No. Mr. BALL. You didn't ever see a picture of Oswald? Miss MUMFORD. No.

This is Feb 25, the day after the memo Bill links us to... A supervisor is already explaining away the errors and mistakes of a subordinate... in turn, the FM-11 which is the "master record" says he leaves by "auto" on Oct 3. If the plan on Oct 3 is still to associate an Oswald with others, he'd leave in a car driven by others. if that was the original plan. a change to that plan to say Lone Nut with no associations... the CIA association of Oswald with others has to disappear or be disavowed - ala Alvarado or in this case... H. O. Lee (O.H. Lee) leaving or arriving by car driven by others. The "actual" FM-11 requested in the FBI doc is/was in the hands of the FBI asset, who, it was said, added to the FM-11 for clarity.

more than one looks strange.... well done Chris... do you suppose this corroborates Truly's testimony, cause we could use some... I've found no one who says the same thing or any images of the turn itself... Hughes is only the start of the turn? and you'd think Dorman would have seen it... of course Dorman wasn't called

http://erenow.com/modern/the-devils-chessboard-allen-dulles-the-cia/18.html Mark Wyatt was attending a meeting at the Gladio base in Sardinia with Bill Harvey when he heard that President Kennedy had been shot at high noon in Dallas. When the telex arrived, in the early evening local time, Wyatt found Harvey collapsed in bed, following a late-afternoon round of martinis. After Wyatt managed to rouse him, the CIA station chief blurted out some provocative remarks about the events in Dallas that deeply disturbed Wyatt for the rest of his life. According to his three children, Wyatt, who died in 2006, at eighty-six, would always suspect that Harvey had some prior knowledge of the Kennedy assassination or was in some way involved. ---- a bit further down I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that Harvey was in Dallas in November 1963,” House Assassinations Committee investigator Dan Hardway, who was assigned by the panel to probe possible CIA connections to JFK’s murder, observed years later. “We considered Harvey to be one of our prime suspects from the very start. He had all the key connections—to organized crime, to the CIA station in Miami where the plots against Castro were run, to other prime CIA suspects like David Phillips. We tried to get Harvey’s travel vouchers and security file from the CIA, but they always blocked us. But we did come across a lot of memos that suggested he was traveling a lot in the months leading up to the assassination.” (More recent legal efforts by the author to obtain Harvey’s travel records from the CIA also proved fruitless, despite the 1992 JFK Records Act, which required all federal agencies to release documents related to the Kennedy assassination.)

I have Wilderness of Mirrors at home.... been a while since I read it but will take a look to see if there's anything about Harvey, Dallas and 11/22. Interesting book btw... about Angleton and Harvey.

Again, thanks for the kind words... Bill was very helpful identifying the players... we emailed while I was working on this back in 2015 and keep in contact from time to time... I read his work enthusiastically - downloading State Secret before many even knew about it... Since so few have taken the time to look at every day OTHER than Sept 25 - Oct 3, Bill's work digs so deep into the CIA, FBI, etc... that the trip itself is usually overlooked. Here is one of the last replies related to my Work.... As you delve into the other 4 papers I address each and every attempt to ID Oswald on these buses - the cornerstones to the FBI's MC trip story... "Here's Hoover in Feb. 64 talking about how even with extra men, every lead in Mexico City fizzles out. At some point, you might consider a chrono of similar statements. Bill https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62477&relPageId=25

Thanks for the kind words Eddy... That was part 1... only 4 more parts for you to go... There is no doubt that "an Oswald" could have been flown into Mexico by "Ferrie" for example. Yet we understand that Goodpasture conjures up Oswald on Oct 8th for reasons OTHER than the photo of the man, or the voice of the man was Oswald. All the proof that tries to put Oswald with Duran actually conflicts rather than supports him being there. My POV was that the FBI is forced to cover for the CIA due to Oswald being on a FBI mission at the time. The CIA put Oswald down there with the Oct 10 memo to FBI/State/Navy. Hoover ultimately tells LBJ "there was a second man down there using his name" rather than "Our Oswald was not there". It is my POV that Hoover covers for the CIA here to cover his own skin. IF I am right and Oswald was at Odio's as I suspect... Hoover's FBI had to cover for them after Nov 22nd otherwise an FBI asset is connected to the JFK assassination. Hoover would not allow that... so with the help of an amazing asset, they create, then recreate the evidence getting Oswald from here to there.... Don't you suppose if anyone wanted a paper trail for Oswald going to MC all they'd need is a bus ticket. lol So one question is whether or not Oswald and Mexico City really had anything to do with each other.... I think the person OSWALD had little if anything to do with OSWALD the man GOODPASTURE created...

Larry, That's actually a composite of 4 or 5 documents showing the FBI search for Oswald after the fact... IMO Hoover knew Oswald was not there, but for some reason covered the CIA's butt. Not sure if you've taken the time to read thru the 6 chapters I did on the Mexico City Travel evidence at CTKA/Kings.... https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/mexico-city-part-2-the-trip-down-part-1 From what I can tell, no on e has looked at the travel as opposed to the time in MC. There are thousands of docs spread out all over the WCDocs with no rhyme or reason. So I organized them. The first thing I did for this writing project was to acquire the documents and put them in chronological order... Who knew what , when and how. What I found was that all the evidence the FBI finally used to place Oswald here or there was funneled thru one man in Mexico City... the #2 man at Gobernacion had his hands on virtually everything... with comments by those who were aware that he added notes and made changes to the FM-11 (master list of Tourist Visas from the border) Everything the FBI got were COPIES of items from this man... he is even the source for the ARTURO BOSCH altered FRONTERA bus manifest which he changed to match the needed departure date and time. Under Hoover's signature, this "accepted evidence for how Oswald left MC was later found to not work with the bus schedule and Oswald being in Dallas on Oct 3. This is just the tip of the iceberg Larry... the FBI was very detailed in their charade here... the physical evidence does come from the locations offered... just not related to a man named Oswald. (The McFarlands and the Australian girls are provable plants used to place Oswald on a bus and nothing more. I can only suggest you wade thru the work I did... The FBI's story falls apart with the same gusto is was cobbled together Cheers DJ WCD 78 p1 tells us that by Nov 23th the FBI had information that the Mexican Officials were able to find and relay information from the “official records” of the Mexican Government which they had been alerted to no later than the early morning of Nov 23rd. A few pages later the FBI tells us that according to their Mexican confidential sources, Oswald was on the Transportes Frontera bus #340 leaving at 1pm Oct 2nd. This information not only turns out to be wrong but specifically created by a Mexican Presidential Staff Official Arturo Bosch in front of the bus line personnel. (Part 3 will delve deeper into the evidence related to Mr. Bosch)

33 frames? and Z starts at 100 + 33? And it's SPECTER who insists that POSITION A is somehow involved... Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to ascertain the speed of the Presidential limousine at the time of the assassination? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; because we were able to determine the speed of the camera, and thereby accurately determine the length of time it takes for a specific number of frames to run through the camera at this 18.3 frames per second, and having located these frame positions in the street, we took the farthest distance point we had in the Zapruder film which was frame 161 through frame 313. Mr. SHANEYFELT. The first position we established that morning was frame 161. Mr. SPECTER. Was there not a position established prior in sequence to frame 161, specifically that designated as position A? Mr. SHANEYFELT. That was actually established later. But the first one to be actually located was 161. And we went back later and positioned point A. Mr. SPECTER. Well, let's start with the position which is the most easterly point on Elm Street, which I believe would be position A, would it not? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes. Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is an album that I prepared of black and white photographs made of the majority of the frames in the Zapruder film---- Mr. SPECTER. Starting with what frame number? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Starting with frame 171, going through frame 334. Mr. SPECTER. And why did you start with frame 171? Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is the frame that the slides start from. This was an arbitrary frame number that was decided on as being far enough back to include the area that we wanted to study. I find it interesting that they did all they could to exclude info prior to z161 (which was originally z168 and changed for CE884) yet still insist on discussing the significance of POS A. Mr. SPECTER. Was there any prior position, that is a position before position A, where the marksman from the sixth floor could have fired the weapon and have struck the President at the known point of entry at the base of the back of his neck? Mr. SHANEYFELT. No; because as the car moves back, you lose sight of the chalk mark on the back of his coat. Mr. SPECTER. So that would be the first position where the marksman could focus in on the circled point where the point of entry on the President was marked? Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is correct. That is simply not true at all. Bottom left... roll the limo back, you don't lose sight of anything while the "chalk mark" on the coat rises... a simple movement of the rifle adjusts for that... so why Shaneyfelt would claim what he does here, and relate it back to the window - when according to Shaneyfelt the limo was never at Position A. Any thoughts on why all the effort, images and explanations related to this spot the limo had never supposedly driven thru... unless you listen to TRULY. Mr. SHANEYFELT. This shows the photograph that was made from the point where Zapruder was standing looking toward the car, and is a point that we have designated as position A because it is in a position that did not appear on the Zapruder film The Zapruder film does not start until the car gets farther down Elm Street. It takes 81 frames for the motorcycle prior to 133 to disappear into that TSBD/Elm street corner and reemerge.... The motorcycle in a few frames is in the exact same spot as Position A. Here is that bike with Pos A for the stand-in limo behind it... When you click frame by frame on TOWNER... during and just after that turn it appears to me that the limo is moving sideways, not rolling forward, but that may be an illusion of the perspective. Somehow from that spot, the limo gets to z133. Both the Towner and Z films are altered to remove that turn

I took these as a good indication that Hoover understood Oswald was not there during the time in question. The Alvarado story does make a little sense, yet in my mind, Alvarado is not enough of an incentive for Hoover to cover the CIA's butt by creating fake travel documents/history with his Mexican assets... and Alvarado didn't show up for a couple days... the Presidential "guard" - Arturo Bosch being the Frontera related one - was at the 4 bus line office in both north and south Mexico... FBI even claimed it was the ANAHUAC line that Oswald arrived on... These reports thought, didn't make the final report or were even in consideration it appears. Finally, if it was Oswald... both the hotel registry and Visa are terribly incorrect. The Visa application was for a 6 month visa for Harvey Oswald Lee. The hotel registry is signed "Lee, Harvey Oswald"... exactly the same as the mismatched VISA. It was from there that I began my journey... always good hearing from you Larry. DJ ps - if Odio is not enough... any thoughts on this proof? Wasn't Oswald spotted in Dallas at the shooting on the 28th of Sept?

Here you go Sandy... a name you WILL find interesting. Look for Esquire article... related to Tippit murder... maybe

Larry - Thanks for your thoughts on this... I have a different view of the trip of course... One last point... Hoover's handwritten notation about CIA double dealing regarding Oswald's trip to Mexico... Given the FBI reports from Nov 1963 all stating no evidence for Oswald anywhere in Mexico, AND knowing Mystery man was not Oswald AND the fact that so much of the Mexico Evidence was acquired by locals on the 22nd only to be funneled thru one person, one of the FBI's top Mexican Government assets... AND the rifle that was supposedly at Magazine street somehow winds up in and out of the Paine garage - sight unseen. It almost appears that the FBI is hiding the fact he didn't go by offering up evidence which is so shoddy on its face. I think Oswald was traveling, in and around Dallas, and then in Dallas itself on the 4th of Oct. After a week with no contact, Marina supposedly hung up on him when he asked her to ask Ruth for a ride home. There'd be no reason for Oswald to go to Mexico City and NOT leave tell tale signs of this trip - if that was the point. the evidence does not bear this out... Cheers.

Larry - Given your conclusion about Oswald in MC... Who do you think LEON was at Odio's door?

Sorry you thought that was a goad... not my intent. Sounded like you wanted to have a conversation.. again, no worries. Hope you find something that sparks passion DJ

No real worries Tommy... I know it's not on purpose.... As for H&L... Theories not withstanding, which bits of evidence supporting H&L bothers you the most? I'd prefer we don't discuss what Armstrong speculates upon... Can we just stick with the evidence available to us? All the reading and research I've done in these areas leads me to understand that there's virtually nothing under the sun which can be conceived that has not been tried, so I stop asking WHY - human beings are some depraved MF's - those with power revel in messing with the lives of others... I'd also prefer we dropped the incredulity... just because something sounds far -fetched or strange by our standards does not mean it is not possible or has not already been done or tried. As for Trump - Never believe anything until it has been officially denied Try watching the news with that understanding and it's amazing how clear everything becomes.... "Any collusion with the Russians?" "No. No. Next Question"

"larger story less credible" - which larger story Michael? I tried to stay away from things like "sounds credible"... the evidence left for us tells a specific story... the truth tends to be easily corroborated after the fact... lies on the other hand, and created evidence have a much tougher time keeping things straight. The first batches of BUS TRIP EVIDENCE which came from Mexico was completely wrong despite it being accepted as evidence of Oswald's visit... when it no longer could stand up to scrutiny, it was dropped. simply dropped by Hoover in favor of something else that could work... like "he took this (or that) bus since it was the only bus to get his to his destination when we say he got there" Mexican Presidential guards showed up at each of the 4 bus lines on 11/22 and "borrowed" all the evidence. The MC story is symptomatic of the entire WCR... Desired conclusion unsupported - in fact contradicted - by the actual evidence gathered at the time and from subsequent investigations without the government's bias. Well Michael - I did about 300 pages on the trip and evidence... This charade unfolds amazingly.. I hope I've done it some justice... https://kennedysandking.com/content/the-evidence-is-the-conspiracy-index is the index to all my work but you'll see the 6 Mexico Chapters in this list. It took the FBI over 2000 documents to explain that Oswald went to Mexico - when all they needed was a single bus ticket... which they finally did get from Marina. Enjoy the ride DJ

Joseph(s) is my last name... better than the "Jacobs" I get from time to time... Thanks for the compliment Tommy. And as usual, I'm sure you'll find areas where I've err'd - that would be greatly appreciated since from my knowledge there are no other deep dives related to the travel to and from MC - I'd like to turn the 6 chapters into a coherent book... Oswald in Dallas at the end of the MC time period, the Odio story and the lack of authentic evidence for his being in MC led me to conclude Oswald was doing his left wing / right wing group infiltration work for the FBI at the time so the CIA knew it could use Oswald's name and not worry about the FBI contradicting them now that Oswald was the assassination's only possible shooter. Mexico City was one of my first writing projects which grew from a small paper on the forged Hotel registry & FM-8 Visa to encompass 2000 Mexico City documents (which I saved and named in chronological order - completely changes how you think of a topic when you have the timely contextual content side by side). If you thought my posts are hard to follow, this early work is loaded with data and though provoking ideas, but is probably not as organized as it could have been... I'll be editing it, updating it and publishing it as I get to it. I hope it provides some of what you're looking for Tommy.... DJ

Michael... there is almost always a link under the frame to the PDF original version of the article in the CTKA archives. I have the same problem and always hit that link. ======================== There are three types of MC travel evidence... that which is blatant verbal lie that which exists in the physical world and was created to implicate Oswald and that which is an accurate portrayal of events that betrays the conclusion our Oswald was there The most obvious of evidence - bus tickets - meets both #2 and #3. Starting in New Orleans there is simply no record of Oswald taking a bus anywhere. In the work I did I came to find that the FBI/DFS/Gobernacion were able to find virtually every other person's evidence for having been on the buses they are credited, and even found that some of the names on the manifests simply did not exist. Despite looking for evidence of Oswald in MC all thru November 1963, Hoover's resources could find nothing, yet Hoover goes along anyway and creates a fairy tale journey of epic proportions. The CIA wasn't able to officially find him either.

"immeasurable damage" Discussing the interpretation of source evidence "causes" the damage you speak of Tommy? You have such little faith in people's ability to come to their own conclusions, make their own decisions... without your valuable insights and advice? Yeah, I'm with Michael... how do I get on your ignore list as well... from my POV your repetitive attempts at wit, your lack of insight and refusal to explore that which you have yet to understand puts you a close 2nd to Mr. T here. I've been thru the arguments you copy/paste from others and they remain lacking and unconvincing. (That adults can't simply count to 200 is amazing.) You take no chances, offer nothing from your own effort and are always first in line to critique the work of others with so little work or experience to your own credit. "Comments?" I agree with you Tommy. Mr. T here checks virtually all the COINTELPRO tactic boxes. He, like an old timer I used to deal with here, is simply in it for the sh!ts and giggles knowing full well what he offers is worthless to anyone spending any amount of time here.... Curious though Tommy, Since when did you become the conscience of the forum members - so much so that you decide what is and isn't valuable, serious, or sober as you frantically hope one of your buddies can supply you with some ammunition that doesn't fall flat on its face in rebuttal to the H&L evidence? Doesn't dawn on you that we're getting weary of all the whining you do on these threads about all the topics you disagree with or don't understand... Keep cursing the darkness Tommy... I and others will leave the light on for you - all you need do is find your way... and take off the blinders.

We were discussing the splice in Towner during the turn onto Elm Mr. TRULY. That is right.And the President's car following close behind came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour. It wasn't that much, because they were getting ready to turn. And the driver of the Presidential car swung out too far to the right, and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway. And he slowed down perceptibly and pulled back to the left to get over into the middle lane of the parkway. Not being familiar with the street, he came too far out this way when he made his turn. Mr. BELIN. He came too far to the north before he made his curve, and as he curved--as he made his left turn from Houston onto the street leading to the expressway, he almost hit this north curb? Mr. TRULY. That is right. Just before he got to it, he had to almost stop, to pull over to the left. ... and what Dale Myers tried to do in his explanation by claiming a 22 frames per second speed for a camera moving at 18 fps... Why in the world would Dale make the Towner film run almost 25% faster Chris? Speeds up the limo for one, hides/removes 1.8 seconds of film if the speed was actually 18.3 fps. Is Truly adding details that never happened - and if so, what purpose would it serve... Do we not believe it is simply a coincidence that HUGHES is also burn/damaged at the exact same point... as the limo would be approaching the island curb. Zapruder claims he did not stop and start filming after the motorcycles turn onto Elm. But of course nothing of importance happened on that corner anyway....

Really Chris? The Secret Service in CE875 tells us that the 3rd shot was over 30 feet further down Elm? CE585 does the same thing... Amazing... hey Chris... any other corroboration like say Altgens, Hudson, Leo Gauthier and WCD298... Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car. another amazing fact is that LEO GAUTHIER, the FBI AGENT who oversaw the creation of this WCD298 model was one of the men with Eisenberg who in May 1964 completely negated the work from Dec 2,3,4 and up to delivery of this model in mid-January 1964 by reconstructing the evidence. The FBI asked WEST to remove the data related to the 3rd shot from his work so that there'd be 2 and only 2 shots hitting the limo... any ideas on how Eisenberg could draw this months prior to the reenactment and get it so correct? {snicker snicker} Mr. SPECTER. Did you participate in the onsite tests made in Dallas? Mr. GAUTHIER. I did. Mr. SPECTER. Was a survey made of the scene used to record some of the results of that onsite testing? Mr. GAUTHIER. Yes. Mr. SPECTER. And by whom was the survey made? Mr. GAUTHIER. The survey was made on May 24, 1964, by Robert H. West Except what SPECTER is questioning GAUTHIER about is the work done in early DECEMBER. The Model was erected for the Warren Commissioners on January 20 Mr. GAUTHIER. Our data to build this were compiled on December 2, 3, and 4. It took about 5 weeks to prepare this exhibit in Washington. Mr. SPECTER. And where have these models been maintained since the time they were prepared by the FBI? Mr. GAUTHIER The models were delivered to the Commission's building and installed in the exhibits room on the first floor, on January 20, 1964. Makes one wonder how a model and related data is delivered JANUARY 20 yet the survey data related to this endeavor is not compiled for another 5 months. The survey by WEST was made on Dec 2,3,4