William Plumlee

Who should be weeping?

I'm just sending a message to some old old friends. No big deal

note: classified. referenced and documented in three seperate places as of June of 2007 FOIA (O.K. release Legal)

Below is previous posting of a few years ago, Oct 16, 2004:

I have been ask a lot of questions about David Morales. In the past I have just past them off. Some ask me how Iknow he was not a player in the assassination of John Kenedy. I know some will take unkindly with this post, but following is information that was given to an investigative committee in 1991 Senator John Kerry's Iran Contra Re-Supply network ref; Dick Mc Call and John Winner.., close door session..." classified Top Secret Committee Sensitive".

Question: How do you know that Morales was not involved in the Kennedy assassination?

I was told by Tracy Barnes, John Martino, William "Wild Bill Harvey", and John Roselli shortly after the assassination, that David was in Miami.

The early records shows that Morales was in the JMWAVE complex at the University of Miami campus at 10am that day.. He signed in on the duty log sheet at 9:20 A.M. and at the gate at 8:45 A.M. He was checked in at the Green Mansions Resort Motel/Hotel the evening of the 22nd. Rm 102. Reference: Congressman Tom Downing 1975; Bernard Finisterwald Jr. 1981, and Arther Paisley (pho?) just before he was killed in a boat explosion on Chesapeake Bay. And also another investigation recorded with the FBI Denver Colorado in 1964, SAC Scott Warner...recorded and on file at the Denver FBI office. Phoenix FBI was the OO and the Colorado State Reformatory deposition and interview was also field with the Denver FBI and recordered within another 302 file.. Phoenix was the OO for this investigation. Bernard Finisterwald tried to get this file from them and was told it had been destroyed along with the other 302's. The second time Finesterwald's filed a FOIA on this subject the request was denied for Security reasons. I was told the information was still classified in 1987. Tosh

note 01-11-08: Sec 12b to be declassified: Burnsfield

Information received Sept 2007: Legal

"..... 27 pages of detailed CIA operative field reports from the time frame of April of 1962 through 1964 to be released to public. (June of 2008) Within are detailed information which contains much about JFK and Miami and the Dallas underworld and the Fourth Army HDQ'ed at Dallas's Love Field. ....".

Read it a weep.

NOTE: Classified testimony of 1990 to be declassified in June 2008. Within this release is documented information about the JFK assassination and military special operations of the sixties

Forum reference:

(John Simkin @ Sep 12 2006, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In his book, Blond Ghost: The Shackley and the CIA's Crusades (1994), David Corn defends Ted Shackley against Gene Wheaton's unified theory of CIA illegal operations.

Sheehan and Wheaton sat down in the kitchen of Hoven's house in early February of 1986. It was magic. To a wide-eyed Sheehan, Wheaton, posing as an experienced operator, tossed out wild stories of clandestine operations and dozens of names: Wilson, Secord, Clines, Hakim, Singlaub, Bush. A whole crew was running amok, supporting Contras, conducting covert activity elsewhere. Drugs were involved. Some of this gang had engaged in corrupt government business in Iran and Southeast Asia. Now the same old boys were running weapons to Latin America. Central to the whole shebang was a former CIA officer named Ted Shackley. Sheehan was captivated. He had struck the mother lode.

Sheehan spoke a few times with Carl Jenkins. At one session, Sheehan listened as Jenkins and Wheaton discussed what Wheaton was calling the "off-the-reservation gang"- Secord, Clines, Hakim, and Shackley - and the operations they ran in and out of government. According to Hoven, Wheaton and Jenkins wanted to see information about this crowd made public and saw Sheehan as the mechanism of disclosure.

Wheaton and Jenkins did not tell Sheehan that they hoped to settle a score with a band they believed had an unfair lock on the air-supply contracts they desired. But to Hoven it was clear that one faction of spooks was whacking another. Hoven was not sure who was on what side. He guessed that somebody somewhere -

maybe even in the Agency itself - was upset with the freelancers and wanted to see them reined in. But if Jenkins or anyone else thought they could use Sheehan as a quiet transmitter of damaging information, they were as wrong as they could be.

Throughout the winter and spring, as Sheehan talked to Wheaton and Jenkins, he had something else on his mind: a two-year-old bombing in Nicaragua. On May 30, 1984, a bomb had exploded at a press conference in La Penca, Nicaragua, held by Eden Pastora, a maverick Contra leader who resisted cooperating with the CIA and the main Contra force. Several people were killed, but not Pastora. Afterward, Tony Avirgan, an American journalist who suffered shrapnel wounds at La Penca, and his wife, Martha Honey, set out to uncover who had plotted the attack. A year later, they produced a book that charged a small group of Americans and Cuban exiles-some with ties to the CIA and the Contras-with planning the murderous assault. One of the persons they fingered was John Hull, a Contra supporter with a spread in northern Costa Rica and a relationship with North and the CIA. Their report noted that some Contra supporters were moonlighting in the drug trade.

Hull sued the couple for libel in Costa Rica. He demanded $1 million. Avirgan and Honey, who lived in San Jose, received death threats. They considered retaliating by filing a lawsuit in the States against individuals in the secret Contra-support network. But they could find no lawyer to take such a difficult case. Eventually Sheehan was recommended to them. They checked him out. The reports were mixed. But he had one undeniable positive attribute: he would accept the case. The couple retained him.

Come late spring of 1986, Sheehan was mixing with spooks in the Washington area, and he was pondering how to craft a lawsuit for Avirgan and Honey. He collected information on the Contra operation. He drew closer to Wheaton, who had a new tale every time they met. Then Sheehan made a pilgrimage to meet the dark angel of the covert crowd: Ed Wilson.

The imprisoned rogue officer made Sheehan's head swim. The essence of Wilson's story, Sheehan claimed, was that the Agency in 1976 had created a highly secretive counter terrorist unit modeled on the PRUs of Vietnam and had run this entity apart from the main bureaucracy. The mission: conduct "wet operations" (spy talk for assassinations). After the election of Jimmy Carter, this group was erased from the books and hidden in private companies, and Shackley was the man in charge of the unit both in and out of government. The program was divided into different components. CIA man William Buckley supposedly had directed one out of Mexico with Quintero and Ricardo Chavez. Another unit was headed by a former Mossad officer. Felix Rodriguez was involved in yet one more in the Mideast. Sheehan took Wilson at his word. "Wilson went into such detail," Sheehan later maintained. "It's not something that's being made up."

At one point after Sheehan met with Wilson, it dawned on him: everything was connected. The La Penca bombing, the North-Contra network, the Wilson gang, all those CIA-trained Cuban exiles, the whole history of Agency dirty tricks, the operations against Castro, the war in Laos, the nasty spook side of the Vietnam War, clandestine Agency action in Iran. It was an ongoing conspiracy. It did not matter if these guys were in or out of government. It was a villainous government within a government, a plot that had existed for decades, a permanent criminal enterprise. Sheehan had a unified held theory of covert U.S. history. And Shackley was the evil Professor Moriarty, the man who pulled all the strings. The avenging Sheehan now was determined to take Shackley down.

Sheehan melded the La Penca bombing case to his Wheaton - influenced investigation of the old-boy network. Avirgan and Honey shared with him all the information they carefully had developed on the Contra support operation. Names and stories he threw at them - including Shackley's - were unfamiliar. They took it on faith that Sheehan knew what he was doing when he blended the results of their professional investigation with the grab-bag of information he had collected from Wheaton, Wilson, and others. "We saw John Hull as the center, and Sheehan saw it as Shackley," Honey recalled. "Shackley was the main ingredient. I don't know why Danny fixated on him. He told us he had lots of information on Shackley's involvement in La Penca. That was b.s. But what do we know, sitting in Costa Rica?" Sheehan was looking for a case he could play before a large audience. He repeatedly told Avirgan and Honey the public did not care about La Penca. But people would pay notice if the enemy was one grand conspiracy headed by a dastardly figure.

Sheehan applied the resources of his small Christic Institute to the case. Wheaton continued investigating the Wilson crowd and other covert sorts. He started telling Jenkins that he believed he was chasing a decades-old, top-secret assassination unit. Wheaton claimed it had begun with an assassination training program for Cuban exiles that Shackley had set up in the early 1960s. The target was Castro. The secret war against Cuba faded, but the "Shooter Team" continued. It expanded and was now called the Fish Farm, and Shackley remained its chief.

Sheehan knitted together all this spook gossip and misinformation with a few hard facts, and on May 29, 1986, he dropped the load. In a Miami federal court, Sheehan filed a lawsuit against thirty individuals, invoking the RICO antiracketeering law and accusing all of being part of a criminal conspiracy that trained, financed, and armed Cuban-American mercenaries in Nicaragua, smuggled drugs, violated the Neutrality Act by supporting the Contras, traded various weapons, and bombed the press conference at La Penca. Sheehan's plaintiffs were journalists Tony Avirgan and Martha Honey. The conspirators were far-flung: John Hull in Costa Rica; Cuban exiles based in Miami (including Quintero); drug lords Pablo Escobar and Jorge Ochoa in Colombia; arms dealers in Florida; Contra leader Adolfo Calero; an Alabama mercenary named Tom Posey; Robert Owen, a secret North aide; the unknown bomber at La Penca; and Singlaub, Hakim, Secord, Clines, and Shackley. Sheehan alleged that Shackley had peddled arms illegally, plotted to kill Pastora, and (with Secord, Clines, and Hakim) accepted money from drug sales for arms shipments. Sheehan demanded over $23 million in damages.

With this lawsuit, Sheehan believed, he could break up the Contra support operation and cast into the light shadowy characters who had been up to mischief for years. Sheehan and Wheaton had stumbled across some real players and some real operations. But they both possessed hyperactive imaginations, and whatever truth they did uncover they had twisted into a false, cosmic conspiracy.

The filing-drafted sloppily by Sheehan-surprised Shackley and his fellow defendants. Hoven and Jenkins were stunned. Neither expected Sheehan to produce such a storm. Sheehan clearly was in this for politics and ego. He was not about to be a quiet disseminator of information. "I had been left with the assumption," Hoven noted, "that I was set up to pass information to Sheehan. But they" - whoever they were - "mucked it up because Sheehan was not playing it close to the script."

Corn’s view has been generally accepted by most commentators on the CIA. Daniel Sheehan was also criticised by “conspiracy theorists” for including too much in his original legal action that he could not prove. This was mainly based on information provided by Carl E. Jenkins, who was still working for the CIA at the time. Jenkins later refused to testify for Sheehan. Peter Dale Scott has suggested that Jenkins’ role was to undermine Sheehan’s case. I am sure he is right about this. However, I believe Gene Wheaton was a genuine informer. As far as I can see, nothing that Wheaton told Sheehan has proved to be incorrect. It has to be remembered that Wheaton began telling his story before the Iran-Contra scandal was exposed by the shooting down of the C-123K cargo plane and the capture of Eugene Hasenfus on the 5th October, 1986.

Wheaton’s unified theory goes further than the one told to Sheehan and assessed by Corn.

In 1995 Gene Wheaton approached the Assassination Records Review Board with information on the death of John F. Kennedy. Anne Buttimer, Chief Investigator of the ARRB, recorded that: "Wheaton told me that from 1984 to 1987 he spent a lot of time in the Washington DC area and that starting in 1985 he was "recruited into Ollie North's network" by the CIA officer he has information about. He got to know this man and his wife, a "'super grade high level CIA officer" and kept a bedroom in their Virginia home. His friend was a Marine Corps liaison in New Orleans and was the CIA contact with Carlos Marcello. He had been responsible for "running people into Cuba before the Bay of Pigs." His friend is now 68 or 69 years of age... Over the course of a year or a year and one-half his friend told him about his activities with training Cuban insurgency groups. Wheaton said he also got to know many of the Cubans who had been his friend's soldiers/operatives when the Cubans visited in Virginia from their homes in Miami. His friend and the Cubans confirmed to Wheaton they assassinated JFK. Wheaton's friend said he trained the Cubans who pulled the triggers. Wheaton said the street level Cubans felt JFK was a traitor after the Bay of Pigs and wanted to kill him. People "above the Cubans" wanted JFK killed for other reasons." It was later revealed that Wheaton's friend was Carl E. Jenkins. Wheaton also named Irving Davidson as being involved in the assassination.

In an interview with William Law and Mark Sobel in the summer of 2005, Gene Wheaton claimed that Carl E. Jenkins and Rafael Quintero were both involved in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. The operation was organized out of JM/WAVE, the CIA station in Miami. In 1963, Ted Shackley was chief of JM/WAVE station. Shackley was also a close associate of George Bush.

Bush was head of the CIA when in 1976 Frank Castro established Coordination of United Revolutionary Organizations (CORU). Other members included Luis Posada, Orlando Bosch, Armando Lopez Estrada and Guillermo Novo. CORU was partly financed by Guillermo Hernαndez Cartaya, another Bay of Pigs veteran closely linked to the CIA. He was later charged with money laundering, drugs & arms trafficking and embezzlement. The federal prosecutor told Pete Brewton that he had been approached by a CIA officer who explained that "Cartaya had done a bunch of things that the government was indebted to him for, and he asked me to drop the charges against him."

Bush also played an important role in covering up the assassination of Orlando Letelier and Ronni Moffitt, by CIA contract agent Michael Townley.

Bush was grooming Shackley to take over from him as director of the CIA. Jimmy Carter’s election put an end to this plan. Bush then worked with Shackley to help Reagan defeat Carter in 1980. Bush had been a candidate for the job (some of his speeches had been written by Shackley) but decided to help Reagan after being promised the vice-presidency.

Bush was also the key figure in the Iran-Contra Scandal. However, as Lawrence E. Walsh, who wrote the official report on the scandal, Bush refused to be interviewed or to hand over documents during the enquiry. As soon as Bush became president he pardoned all those who could have provided evidence against him. He also gave top jobs in his administration who helped him cover-up the scandal (this includes Dick Cheney who is still being rewarded for his silence).

It is Shackley and Bush that is the unifying factor in understanding CIA illegal activities between 1960-1990.

Plumlee reply to Simkin: Sept. 2006

John:

You might like to note that in 1983 Wheaton and another operative were talking to then Senator Gary Hart about the Contra northern front and the formation of the new southern front. Both of these gentleman provided Senator Gary Hart with military maps and detailed flyways as well as aircraft ID numbers, and names of pilots, long before the Iran-Contra affair and the names of locations, operatives, and pilots, became public knowledge. (1983-86) The information provided by both of these operatives was given to The Senate Arms Service Committee which decided to take "No Action" as per Senator Hart's memo of 1984 and again in 1991. This was before the C-123 crash, which opened the door into the contra re-supply operations and the "Savings and Loan scandal of the mid eighites. In 1990 an article with Senator Hart's information and the map notations was published in a southern California publication which created a "firestorm" in Washington DC. Leslie Cockburn also had inside information which she published concerning the secret airbase located in CR (Santa Elena) which was later referenced as "Point West" in O North's notebook, as noted in her 1987 book "Out of Control", and CBS producer Ty West's 60 min program, confirmed Cockburns account of the affair.. All of this information was and still is still being withheld. Senator John Kerry has had the major parts of this information "Classified Top Secret, Committee Senitive" as of 1990. FWIW

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...ancedResults.do

John Farrentello's father worked at Ed Mc Lamora's Sportorium in Dallas and ran numbers for the Dallas mob in the 40's. He had a son Johnney JR. They lived on Buna Vista street, in Dallas...(1949-65).., three houses from the Morgan residence 3314 Elizabeth St where young Plumlee lived in 1952. Farrentello Sr. also worked for Ruby in the early sixties. (documented)

Bobby Plumlee, John Farrentello, and Eugene Huckaby were arrested near New Orleanes, LA in 1952, in a stolden car. Plumlee was 14 years of age.

(documented)

The Farrentello's were friends of John Roselli and the Smaldones of Colorado. Plumlee became friends with Roselli in Miami. Farrentello in the 62-63 time frame worked on the ship REX and later JM/WAVE Miami Station........"....hip bone connected....""". (documented)

Military QC Classified Secret Subject XXXXX Pentagon AllSUP JCS 2 ........ " attatched to xxxxxxx Ft Sam Houston 42 pages classsified in its int NOFOR

JAN 10 08 NEW INFORMATION ON:

CAPT. EDWARD G. SEIWELL age 91 Dallas, Texas Previous CO Fourth Army Reserve, Dallas Love Field 1952-56 Interviewed, certified, notorized, whitnessed, and transcribed, on file JCS (J2) Pentagon as of 2005; auth. release date of Jan.08; also copies of interview of Capt Seiwell located at Camp Maybre, Texas 49th Armord Div. HDQ under file number NG 25926077 and CIA 80Txxxxxx classified. One copy of sealed Court record dated 1952 on Subject WRP # ??? in file. (note Plumlee was 14 years of age and in the Texas National Guard. At age 15 he was transfered to the regular army at Ft Bliss Texas. (documented)

Also on file DPD INTEL Field Report from 49th Armord Div. dated Feb. 1964.... signed by Capt Gilbert Cook concerning the location of "Dallas Safe Houses" in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas, Texas.......". Additional information on Capt. Seiwell found at: OFFICE of ADJUTANT GENERAL STATE of TEXAS Referenced in the files of the 156th Tank BN. Company C

note: It took a dead researcher three and one half years to get into those DPD files and the Texas NG and Army reserve files........ or I should say three years plus....... and three bullits.

note; some of the records are sealed even today. FOIA filed Sept 07 as well as motion to declassifie the 1952 as well as the 1964 military files on subject .

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...o?docSetId=1275

PAST POST

William PlumleeNov 22 2004, 08:40 PM

QUOTE(Steve Thomas @ Nov 22 2004, 08:35 PM)

"....In the course of his reply, Kelley said, “The Dallas Police had some information on him and the State Department had some information in connection with his trips to Russia. The military was supplying information to our headquarters and it was being provided to me at Dallas.....” .

Captain Fritz knew Oswald lived on Beckley before he started talking to him. The address didn’t come from Oswald and it didn’t come from any of the arresting officers. The Sheriff’s Deputies didn’t learn it until after the police had already arrived at Beckley. If Hosty can be believed, it didn’t come from the FBI. I believe it came from someone associated with military intelligence.

Steve Thomas

Very interesting post from the record.

(Plumlee's reply)

Now we need to look at the Forth Army Reserve, Dallas Love Field. There was at one time a report from Company C 156th Tank Bat. which was relayed to 112th Intel at Fort Sam Houston which had Oswald living on Beckley for a very short time. They had received other earlier information from a 49th Armored Div. Texas National Guard, a Capt Cook and that information was sent to an ONI unit at Hensley Field Grand Prairie, Texas, requesting information about the status of LHO. This request was made before LHO had lived on Beckley and before he went to N.O. LHO name was on record with ONI before Beckley.

Congressman Tom Downing had received the documents from an 'unknown officer" (Seiwell) of the Forth Army Reserve, Dallas. In time this information and documentation was given to a Texas State Representative, in Austin Texas. Shortly after this information was received by Congressman Downing. The hard copy was lost or misplaced shortly before the HSCA was chaired.

The WC did not obtain this information.

Professional researchers need to research the Forth Army Reserve and do a cross check on the names found in the Fourth and the Fifth Army and cross check the ONI Navy field office at Hensley or Bauchman Lake near Dallas Love Field. Something, I think will pop up which could prove interesting. (end)

John SimkinNov 25 2004, 12:44 AM

QUOTE(Steve Thomas @ Nov 22 2004, 07:35 PM)

Captain Fritz knew Oswald lived on Beckley before he started talking to him. The address didn’t come from Oswald and it didn’t come from any of the arresting officers. The Sheriff’s Deputies didn’t learn it until after the police had already arrived at Beckley. If Hosty can be believed, it didn’t come from the FBI. I believe it came from someone associated with military intelligence.

Fascinating piece of research. I cannot see how anyone could disagree with your concluding paragraph.

The work is so well-done that I have nothing to add to it. However, I did come across something recently that might be relevant to this issue.

In 1963 J. Lee Rankin appointed Norman Redlich as his special assistant on the Warren Commission in the investigation of the assassination of John F. Kennedy. Throughout the investigation, Gerald Ford provided J. Edgar Hoover with information about the activities of staff members of the commission. Ford became concerned about Redlich and contacted Hoover about him. Hoover ordered that Redlich's past should be investigated. He discovered that Redlich was on the Emergency Civil Liberties Committee, an organization considered by Hoover to have been set-up to "defend the cases of Communist lawbreakers". Redlich had also been critical of the activities of the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

This information was leaked to a group of right-wing politicians. On 5th May, 1964, Ralph F. Beermann, a Republican Party congressman, made a speech claiming that Redlich was associated with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. Beermann called for Redlich to be removed as a staff member of the Warren Commission. He was supported by Karl E. Mundt who said: "We want a report from the Commission which Americans will accept as factual, which will put to rest all the ugly rumors now in circulation and which the world will believe. Who but the most gullible would believe any report if it were written in part by persons with Communist connections?"

Gerald Ford joined in the attack and at one closed-door session of the Warren Commission he called for Redlich to be dismissed. However, he retained his job although he did change his mind about the issue that persuaded Ford to report him to Hoover.

The reason I am raising this issue is that according to Seth Kantor (Who Was Jack Ruby?), Ford had reported Redlich to Hoover because of a theory he had about Ruby’s possible relationship with Oswald. Here is an interesting passage from Kantor’s book that explains how Redlich changed his mind about this issue:

The Belin Theory was that the city bus transfer in Oswald's shirt pocket might well have been his basic "passport" to Mexico. Oswald had been reported to have been in Mexico two months earlier and having gotten there by bus. Belin also was aware of the Warren Commission testimony given by Nelson Delgado, who had served in the Marine Corps with Oswald. Delgado had recalled Oswald once telling him that the best way to escape from authorities in the United States to Russia was by way of Mexico, where a plane could be caught to Havana, and then another plane to Moscow.

The Belin Theory was innovative and extremely logical but suffered a fatal axing within the Warren Commission when Belin figured out that Oswald probably was in the act of escaping to Mexico when encountered by officer Tippit on Tenth Street. That injected a foreign connection into the escape which blew the Warren Commission's mind. Mexico. Cuba. Russia. Belin had practically invented World War III.

It was Norman Redlich who put the axe to the Belin Theory. Redlich had a great deal of control over what would appear in the Warren Report. Redlich, remember, had survived the communist witch-hunt aimed at him on Capitol Hill three months earlier when the granting of his security clearance had been threatened. And now Redlich wanted to keep from stirring up any more problems for Earl Warren, so he argued that Belin had come up with nothing more than supposition, which had no place in the Warren Report. Belin argued in return that the Commission had a public obligation to disclose the existence of Oswald's possible escape plan, even if it were removed from chapter six of the Report and relegated to the 31-page section in the appendix of the Report, entitled "Speculations and Rumors." But Redlich instead saw to it that the Warren Report made no attempt to explain why Oswald, the fast-moving young man on the lam, appeared to be heading directly toward Jack Ruby's apartment with a gun. Instead, the Warren Report simply said, "There is no evidence that Oswald knew where Ruby lived."

Norman Redlich is still alive. I have emailed him and asked him to get involved in this seminar. So far he has not responded. I have his phone number if you are interested in following this matter up.

Richard J. SmithNov 26 2004, 05:50 AM

Steve,

OUTSTANDING piece of work, but then again, I have come to expect nothing less from you. Very well done.

Richard

Steve ThomasNov 26 2004, 08:00 AM

Captain Fritz knew Oswald lived on Beckley before he started talking to him. The address didn’t come from Oswald and it didn’t come from any of the arresting officers. The Sheriff’s Deputies didn’t learn it until after the police had already arrived at Beckley. If Hosty can be believed, it didn’t come from the FBI. I believe it came from someone associated with military intelligence.

In his HSCA unpublished testimony, Col. Jones said that he had been contacted early in the afternoon informing him that a person named A. J. Hidell had come to the attention of the authorities. (He thought that it was because Hidell had been arrested, but couldn't be sure)

(I thought that part of his testimony was very interesting.)

Jones said that he checked his card index and checked the name A. J. Hidell...

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...jones_0020a.htm

That all sound kind of innoucuous, but I've been doing a little reading about the 4th Army Headquarters at Fort Same Houston. Here is an exceprt from a book by Morton Halperin, et.al. entitled, The Lawless State:

"In July 1969, the Department of Defense opened a new war room in the basement of the Pentagon. Staffed by some 180 people and packed with all the latest equipment -data processing machines, closed circuit television, teletype networks, elaborate situation maps-the new operation was a marvel of military technology. The most striking aspect, however, was not the imposing technology, but the purposes that were being served. This was not a regular command center but a very special operation-a "domestic war room," the headquarters of the Directorate for Civil Disturbance Planning and Operations. It was the coordinating center for the Pentagon's domestic war operations.

The office, now known as the Division of Military Services, played a central role in the military's widespread intelligence operations against the American people, a sweeping campaign of civilian surveillance which ultimately affected more than 100,000 citizens. In the fall of 1968, there were more Army Counter-lntelligence Analysis Branch personnel assigned to monitor domestic citizen protests than were assigned to any other counter-intelligence operation in the world, including Southeast Asia and the Vietnam War.' In the later part of the 1960s and early 1970s, 1,500 army plainclothes intelligence agents with the services of more than 350 separate offices and record centers watched and infiltrated thousands of legitimate civilian political organizations. Data banks with as many as 100,000 entries each were maintained at intelligence headquarters at Fort Holabird, Maryland, and at Fourth Army headquarters at Fort Sam Houston, Texas."

According to Jones' testimony, "From 1960, I attended and completed the advanced intelligence course at Fort Holabird, Maryland. He was then assigned to Nuremburg Germany. (Would he have worked or met with Edwin Walker?)

He came back from Germany and was assigned to Fort Sam Houston from June, 1963 to January 1, 1965. He was reassigned to Fort Holabird. He served there for 18 months and then back to the 112th for another seven months.

This guy certainly was at the center of domestic counterintelligence work.

Steve Thomas

William PlumleeNov 26 2004, 02:18 PM

QUOTE(Steve Thomas @ Nov 26 2004, 04:00 PM)

Captain Fritz knew Oswald lived on Beckley ........

........In his HSCA unpublished testimony, Col. Jones said that he had been contacted early in the afternoon informing him that a person named A. J. Hidell had come to the attention of the authorities. (He thought that it was because Hidell had been arrested, but couldn't be sure)

(I thought that part of his testimony was very interesting.)

Jones said that he checked his card index and checked the name A. J. Hidell...

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...jones_0020a.htm

That all sound kind of innoucuous, but I've been doing a little reading about the 4th Army Headquarters at Fort Same Houston. Here is an exceprt from a book by Morton Halperin, et.al. entitled, The Lawless State:

"In July 1969, the Department of Defense opened a new war room in the basement of the Pentagon. Staffed by some 180 people and packed with all the latest equipment -data processing machines, closed circuit television, teletype networks, elaborate situation maps-the new operation was a marvel of military technology. The most striking aspect, however, was not the imposing technology, but the purposes that were being served. This was not a regular command center but a very special operation-a "domestic war room," the headquarters of the Directorate for Civil Disturbance Planning and Operations. It was the coordinating center for the Pentagon's domestic war operations.

The office, now known as the Division of Military Services, played a central role in the military's widespread intelligence operations against the American people, a sweeping campaign of civilian surveillance which ultimately affected more than 100,000 citizens. In the fall of 1968, there were more Army Counter-lntelligence Analysis Branch personnel assigned to monitor domestic citizen protests than were assigned to any other counter-intelligence operation in the world, including Southeast Asia and the Vietnam War.' In the later part of the 1960s and early 1970s, 1,500 army plainclothes intelligence agents with the services of more than 350 separate offices and record centers watched and infiltrated thousands of legitimate civilian political organizations. Data banks with as many as 100,000 entries each were maintained at intelligence headquarters at Fort Holabird, Maryland, and at Fourth Army headquarters at Fort Sam Houston, Texas."

According to Jones' testimony, "From 1960, I attended and completed the advanced intelligence course at Fort Holabird, Maryland. He was then assigned to Nuremburg Germany. (Would he have worked or met with Edwin Walker?)

He came back from Germany and was assigned to Fort Sam Houston from June, 1963 to January 1, 1965. He was reassigned to Fort Holabird. He served there for 18 months and then back to the 112th for another seven months.

This guy certainly was at the center of domestic counterintelligence work.

Steve Thomas

(Plumlee's reply)

He also worked with Capt. Edward G Seiwell 4th Army Reserve who was assigned at Dallas Love Field before he too went to the Specialized Army Unit (SAU) at Ft Sam Houston and then later into the 112th.

Very good documentation can be found if you ask for it in the right manner. This is a good post. There is a lead here if anyone cares to check it out. Why was an 'Abort Team' sent in? Who sent them?

For over nine years this 'Specialized Army Unit" (SAU) was burried within the Pentagon. It was a very small 'test unit' before it surfaced in 1969, but it had been operational before it became the DMS. Even the CIA did not know about it's early existence. It was solely a military matter. A left over from Ike's days.

President Kennedy found out about this secret unit and ask the CIA about it. They knew nothing. Yes the military was in Dallas that day and they were not in uniform. And other military intel units did not know of their existence, or where they were located..,or why. (end )

Steve ThomasNov 27 2004, 08:29 AM

Tosh

"...Very good documentation can be found if you ask for it in the right manner. ..."

Who would you ask?

Steve Thomas

William PlumleeNov 27 2004, 11:00 AM

QUOTE(Steve Thomas @ Nov 27 2004, 04:29 PM)

Tosh

Very good documentation can be found if you ask for it in the right manner.

Who would you ask?

Steve Thomas

(Plumlee's reply)

Steve:

An FOIA request worded very specific. The Texas Adj General Office at Camp Mabre, Austin Texas. Fifth Army archives in reference to the 4th Army Reserves located at Dallas Love Field, before the 4th it became part of the 5th Army. I think this would be at Fort Sam Houston, Texas. Trace the Navy ONI when they were located at Bauchman Lake, Dallas Texas, or Naval Air Station, Grand Prairie, Texas.

I think digging deep into these lost or misplaced files would pay dividends. The normal routing through the FOIA and searching the NAAR or Military Personnel Records Center at St Louis MO. have long been purged and that is a waist of time.

In order to get to new evidence pertaining to the Kennedy matter, or 112th MI, you have to go to alternate sources which requires a lot of leg work and time. It was designed that way. The government does not destroy anything it just goes into a black hole somewhere. (end)

Shanet ClarkNov 27 2004, 03:19 PM

Great thread.

Not much to add, except that the point is clear that the MI guys knew too much and got caught covering up, a typical scenario.

As far as a further search, remember that the MK/Ultra operational files were destroyed by Helms but the program was exposed when the financial records were unearthed.

Shanet

Steve ThomasNov 29 2004, 07:42 AM

I have a slight correction to make:

Orginally, I wrote:

In the National Archives, there is a message dated November 26, 1963 from the Commanding General, U.S. Continental Army Command re-transmitting a message dated November 23, 1963 from someone at Fort Sam Houston, in San Antonio to CINC U.S. Strike Command at McDill Air Force Base in Florida. The November 23rd message summarizes a telephone conversation between a Captain Saxton in Strike Command and a Lieutenant Colonel Fons, Deputy Chief of Staff, Intelligence at 4th Army Headquarters at Fort Sam Houston that took place on November 23, 1963. In the middle of this summary, there is this passage:

Though the original message is dated as November 23rd, the time given is 0405 Z.

I believe this is Coordinated Zulu Time. The Centrl Time Zone is I believe, six hours behind GMT which would mean the time the original message was sent from Dallas would be about 11:00 PM on the 22nd.

Steve Thomas

William PlumleeNov 29 2004, 09:20 AM

QUOTE(Steve Thomas @ Nov 29 2004, 03:42 PM)

"... ....".

I find this extreamely interesting. GOOD WORK. This is what its all about. Sharing research... good or bad as to what some of us may think. Thanks for the leg work. There is more to do in this direction.

Steve ThomasNov 29 2004, 10:05 AM

Tosh,

I find this extreamely interesting.

Thank you.

Do you know anything about either of the two officers mentioned in that phone call?

Captain Saxton in Strike Command and a Lieutenant Colonel Fons, Deputy Chief of Staff, Intelligence at 4th Army Headquarters at Fort Sam Houston.

Steve Thomas

William PlumleeNov 29 2004, 10:17 AM

QUOTE(Steve Thomas @ Nov 29 2004, 06:05 PM)

Tosh,

I find this extreamely interesting.

Thank you.

Do you know anything about either of the two officers mentioned in that phone call?

Captain Saxton in Strike Command and a Lieutenant Colonel Fons, Deputy Chief of Staff, Intelligence at 4th Army Headquarters at Fort Sam Houston.

Steve Thomas

(Plumlee's reply)

No Steve. Nothing direct or factual only hear say and I am not sure about that source. There was a Capt. Saxton who worked with the 156 tank Bn CO C with a Captain Gilbert COOK and a Captain Black of the 49th Armored Div, Texas National Guard and the 4th Army Reserve Dallas Love Field. But I would not know if they were connected to any of this. For that matter I'm not really sure it was 'Saxton", could have been "Sampson" but I think it was, "Saxton". Its been awhile.

William PlumleeNov 29 2004, 11:38 AM

QUOTE(Steve Thomas @ Nov 29 2004, 03:42 PM)

I have a slight correction to make:

Orginally, I wrote:

In the National Archives, there is a message dated November 26, 1963 from the Commanding General, U.S. Continental Army Command re-transmitting a message dated November 23, 1963 from someone at Fort Sam Houston, in San Antonio to CINC U.S. Strike Command at McDill Air Force Base in Florida. The November 23rd message summarizes a telephone conversation between a Captain Saxton in Strike Command and a Lieutenant Colonel Fons, Deputy Chief of Staff, Intelligence at 4th Army Headquarters at Fort Sam Houston that took place on November 23, 1963. In the middle of this summary, there is this passage:

Though the original message is dated as November 23rd, the time given is 0405 Z.

I believe this is Coordinated Zulu Time. The Centrl Time Zone is I believe, six hours behind GMT which would mean the time the original message was sent from Dallas would be about 11:00 PM on the 22nd.

Steve Thomas

Reference to Beckly Address and house behind: 'The Flight to Dallas' and 'Howdid the police first learn of 1026 N. Beckley'.

Thank You for your respond. I t must be kept in mind that I first took Senate investigators to this place in 1978 and Jim Marrs and others from Oliver Stone's research team there in 1991. In 2002 I took Nigel Turner to this house behind Beckley and he took pictures.

Most all these people told me I was wrong about the house. They said that only a park was behind the Beckley address. I told them you missed the alley entrance to the place and took them there. After I had done this then everybody said they knew about this house behind Beckley and they were just testing me.

Do you know about the other place? This was a small place LHO and Marina rented down the street? It too, was a hard place to get into. Are you familiar with the doorway and how to get to this small apartment. And do you know the real address?. That too is an interesting story.

Perhaps Jim Marrs would like to come on this forum and tell how he found out about this place. I think it would prove interesting for the sake of truthful research. Thanks again for the post. I hope my story has cleared a few matters for you. There is more..., lots more... but its like eating a elephant... You do it with small bites ...". end

Steve ThomasNov 29 2004, 01:55 PM

Thanks for your help. Your suggestions have led me down research paths I hadn't explored before. I've been learning about CONUS Intelligence, Chirstopher Pyle, Operation Garden Plot, Senator Sam Ervin's Senate Subcommittee on Consti­tutional Rights and the Army Spy Scandal of 1970-71.

Very interesting stuff.

Steve Thomas

Steve ThomasNov 29 2004, 02:01 PM

(Plumlee reply)

Do you know about the other place? This was a small place LHO and Marina rented down the street? It too, was a hard place to get into. Are you familiar with the doorway and how to get to this small apartment. And do you know the real address?. That too is an interesting story.

S reply:

No. I hvae never heard of this other place.

Steve Thomas

William PlumleeNov 29 2004, 03:08 PM

(Plumlee's request for help and information)

Perhaps others out there should cover this subject if they know. I think it is interesting as to the dates Oswald lived there. (at to this other place) I'll leave it here for now and hope someone comes forward with factual information that we can compare. Thanks for the interest and your post. I hope this leads somewhere for you. Tosh

NOTE TO THIS DAY NOBODY HAS RESPONDED TO ABOVE 2004 RESEARCH. documentation is now in place.

Deleted by Mr Plumlee's legal firm

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