William Plumlee

As to the law I would not know about that. I do know that VA records show many young men in the military at ages 14-17 during the time fram I speak.I know about the Iran-Contra and the Boland Act and that was above the law of the land... Special Operations... and we have S/E Asia and young men in special ops under age.. but I'll let the research community untangle all that. I know I was in the Texas National Guard one month before I turned 15 and at Ft Bliss in the Regular Army in 1953 and in the Fourth Army Reserve in 1954 at Dallas Love Field.......I was a Cpl before I was 16. I was under CIA contract from the military at 18 and with JM/WAVE Miami Station at age 24-25. Fact.

Thanks for the reply, Tosh.

Iran-Contra was a matter of overstepping a law introduced by Reagan - though I'm sure those involved didn't see it that way.

This is an entirely different matter. We are not talking about a third world country in Latin America or Africa. 14 year olds in the Military is a serious concern. It would require legal authority, administration and on an individual basis - parental consent. This is not something the DoD could just decide to do because they thought it was a good idea.

The reason the threads are disjointed is because I have been trying to respond for over 12 hours now. In an attempt to help and futher research. I can handle the HARD questions.... Can you handle the HARD research?

Your acknowledgment that the initial post may be hard to grasp without reading all the other threads is welcome... and the reason given for the disjointed nature completely understandable.

As far as research goes... I think it is imperative that the law underpinning what you say happened is identified. Understanding the background and intended purpose of various laws and policies is part of my way of proceeding. When you view Oswald's actions alongside those things... the true nature of those actions start to emerge.

Let's move on with more questions. I have no idea how hard they are.

Do you believe you were targeted for this because of your police record?

I had a choice go into the army or go to Jev until 18 then jail. I was told this by the FBI and the Judge on the case. anyway and they approved my enlistment.

Was parental consent requested and granted?

They (the court close door chambers) told my mother and father it would be best for me, because if I kept going the way I was I would be in prison by the time I was 20. However, they did not sign any papers. I joined anyway

They (the court, the FBI, and the Army) new I was in the Texas National Guard as a tank driver, Sherman. My parents did not know I went into the regular army until I came home on leave from Ft Bliss. They just thought I ran away again and the law would bring me back. I was accepted into the regular army and they (the army) knew of my probation and age. In fact my real age and birth date is on my discharge papers which have been posted... as well as where I worked as a aircraft mech at Southwest Airmotive (they got me that job at Southwest.... I agreed to be hon discharged and sent back to Dallas until I turned 18 of which I did. and I went back to work at Southwest (note: I was ran over by a jeep at Ft Bliss in 1954 and was at Wm Baumont Army Hospital for 14 days.)

Again, I understand you're being fired questions all over the place, so take your time.

This might help also. I hope it post as an attatchment:

It failed... I do not have enough space... It was a VA Awards letter and had all my elistments dates ect.... oh well come see come saw....

As to the law I would not know about that. I do know that VA records show many young men in the military at ages 14-17 during the time fram I speak.I know about the Iran-Contra and the Boland Act and that was above the law of the land... Special Operations... and we have S/E Asia and young men in special ops under age.. but I'll let the research community untangle all that. I know I was in the Texas National Guard one month before I turned 15 and at Ft Bliss in the Regular Army in 1953 and in the Fourth Army Reserve in 1954 at Dallas Love Field.......I was a Cpl before I was 16. I was under CIA contract from the military at 18 and with JM/WAVE Miami Station at age 24-25. Fact.

Thanks for the reply, Tosh.

Iran-Contra was a matter of overstepping a law introduced by Reagan - though I'm sure those involved didn't see it that way.

This is an entirely different matter. We are not talking about a third world country in Latin America or Africa. 14 year olds in the Military is a serious concern. It would require legal authority, administration and on an individual basis - parental consent. This is not something the DoD could just decide to do because they thought it was a good idea.

The reason the threads are disjointed is because I have been trying to respond for over 12 hours now. In an attempt to help and futher research. I can handle the HARD questions.... Can you handle the HARD research?

Your acknowledgment that the initial post may be hard to grasp without reading all the other threads is welcome... and the reason given for the disjointed nature completely understandable.

As far as research goes... I think it is imperative that the law underpinning what you say happened is identified. Understanding the background and intended purpose of various laws and policies is part of my way of proceeding. When you view Oswald's actions alongside those things... the true nature of those actions start to emerge.

Let's move on with more questions. I have no idea how hard they are.

Do you believe you were targeted for this because of your police record?

I had a choice go into the army or go to Jev until 18 then jail. I was told this by the FBI and the Judge on the case. anyway and they approved my enlistment.

Was parental consent requested and granted?

They (the court close door chambers) told my mother and father it would be best for me, because if I kept going the way I was I would be in prison by the time I was 20. However, they did not sign any papers. I joined anyway

They (the court, the FBI, and the Army) new I was in the Texas National Guard as a tank driver, Sherman. My parents did not know I went into the regular army until I came home on leave from Ft Bliss. They just thought I ran away again and the law would bring me back. I was accepted into the regular army and they (the army) knew of my probation and age. In fact my real age and birth date is on my discharge papers which have been posted... as well as where I worked as a aircraft mech at Southwest Airmotive (they got me that job at Southwest.... I agreed to be hon discharged and sent back to Dallas until I turned 18 of which I did. and I went back to work at Southwest (note: I was ran over by a jeep at Ft Bliss in 1954 and was at Wm Baumont Army Hospital for 14 days.)

Again, I understand you're being fired questions all over the place, so take your time.

I'll side with the facts, regardless of the source.

In this case, after reading the initial post in this thread, many of the questions posed by Mr Colby also occurred to me.

Am at a loss to understand what Mr Plumlee thinks the document contains.

As for Stanton.... look from page 3 on...

The answers to Colby's questions may be scattered throughout other threads... but any connection between what was written in the initial post and its title needs to be clear and in one place.

None of this is by way of calling Mr Plumlee into question... though questions need to be asked.

As I have an interest in the use of youth during the Cold War, I'd be very interested in knowing what law covered the use of 14 year olds as indicated (at least in the thread title).

In considering this question, bear in mind that for a law to be used, it does not have to spell out (in this instance) something along lines of "TEST OPERATIONS: age requirement 14 to 18 etc etc"... existing laws can be "interpreted" or have loop holes found or inserted for needed actions to occur within the law.

Note: The Oct 1951 interview with Staton about a stolden auto-- was long before the auto in the Plumlee case was even reported stolden (Feb 22, 1952 four months before the Plumlee auto was even stolden) Staton interview Oct 1951------Plumlee ITSA Feb. 22,1952 auto reported stolden... Plumlee Farentello, and Huckby subjects. Plumlee received four years Federal Probation as a minor 14 years of age... nine months later in the Texas National Guard, Oct 22, 1952. ... Fact. Record Seal (as indicated on lower right hand of pages) Fact

As to the law I would not know about that. I do know that VA records show many young men in the military at ages 14-17 during the time fram I speak.I know about the Iran-Contra and the Boland Act and that was above the law of the land... Special Operations... and we have S/E Asia and young men in special ops under age.. but I'll let the research community untangle all that. I know I was in the Texas National Guard one month before I turned 15 and at Ft Bliss in the Regular Army in 1953 and in the Fourth Army Reserve in 1954 at Dallas Love Field.......I was a Cpl before I was 16. I was under CIA contract from the military at 18 and with JM/WAVE Miami Station at age 24-25. Fact.

The reason the threads are disjointed is because I have been trying to respond for over 12 hours now. In an attempt to help and futher research. I can handle the HARD questions.... Can you handle the HARD research?

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=3 ( 1951)

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=2 (1952)

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=2

What were young men as young as 14 doing in the US Army? The following link indicates an arrest in New Orleans in July 52 and then this person was husseled into the army approx 4mo later (Oct 52) and sent to Ft Bliss for training in Oct 52-54. What Units did these young men go into and how were they used and why? Interesting when you add Cuba, the mob, and Kennedy to the equation. If a person is on 4 years Federal probation for crossing a state line in a stolden can in 1952-53.... then how did he get into the US Army while on federal probation? compare below link with military discharge and record......

I was told a few years ago that there were "NO Records" of any military service for this person for that time frame. FBI J E Hoover Director.

I do not expect anyone to respond to these questions... I am just sending documentation out there to pull a chain or two... a signal if you like... Whatever, it is now recorded before the fact....... not after. I still hold an Ace.

Tosh

I could find any:

- reference to Staton’s* age of the let alone that he was a minor lest alone that he was 14. The fact that “he entered a guilty plea” and was sentenced to and adult facility, the Federal Reformatory in El Reno, OK would seem to indicate he was an adult.

- Indication that Stanton or any minors ever joined the military.

- Indication he was in arrested in or was ever in New Orleans, he was in custody in Ozona Tx a town with less than 4000 residents halfway between El Paso and Houston, reference is also made to Quitman TX, another small town, both are several hindered miles west of LHO’s hometown.

- Evidence that he “on 4 years Federal probation” his total sentence was “one year and one day”

- Indication what this case had to do with the assassination or what your involvement was, were you arrested with Stanton? According to John bio of you and other sources you were born in 1937 and joined the army in 1954 when you would have been 15 or 16.

Is this what you meant by “pull a chain or two”?Len

* The person arrested for steeling the car was only identified as Stanton

THIS BUDS FOR YOU DUDE:

I think you have missed something in your research. Where did you get the information you posted?

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=3

This was a 1951 case on a stolden auto had nothing to do with Plumlee, Farrentello, and Huckbee of the 1952 case dated in Feb of 1952.

Was Staton interviewed before the car was stolden in 1952?

Staton or whoever is not in the document I posted; as subject in 1952 case. ITSA

Your post is miss leading as well as your tone. Post your references and documentation as to what you have posted in reference to my postings.

The Statton case and dates were a screw up by a SAC FBI in Dallas.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=3

My point: Young men were put into the army, as I was as a "test operation". I did not say the boys with me also went into the army with me..... I posted the court file and the military record to ask. "How could this be"? And stated what happened to me and how and why I went into the military at such a young age... If you look at the army discharge which has been posted, then you can see the dates... arrested, put on probation abd then within months (9mo) in the Texas National Guard, then Ft Bliss, 1953-54 and then rank of Cpl. and back to Texas in the Fourth Army Reserve as a Cpl. (not even 17 yet and a Cpl in the Forth Army. You were not even supose to be in the Reserve until you had completed one complete tour of duty (a min of two years.)

Anyway I am trying to help, but if I were you I would re research what I have said and posted today and last night. You might find it interesting the documents that did not surface years ago have now been released FOIA and the probation file on me in 1952 has been un- sealed. FACT..

From you tone I feel you are twisting matters and not looking at the right document. The people with me when we were arrested were Egune Huckby, Bob Plumlee (me), and Johney Farentello.

The person you mentioned above is nowhere in the document that I know of. Please show me. Again here is the link to the page that says the names of the boys involved in the car theft.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=3

I think you have confused the Forum members with your post. I hope it was not intended. Please post your documentation and references as to your posting the above information. This would be apreciated. My point: Young men were put into the army, as I was as a "test operation".

If your going to play with the Big dogs.... then you've got to learn to piss in the TALL grass...

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=2

What were young men as young as 14 doing in the US Army? The following link indicates an arrest in New Orleans in July 52 and then this person was husseled into the army approx 4mo later (Oct 52) and sent to Ft Bliss for training in Oct 52-54. What Units did these young men go into and how were they used and why? Interesting when you add Cuba, the mob, and Kennedy to the equation. If a person is on 4 years Federal probation for crossing a state line in a stolden can in 1952-53.... then how did he get into the US Army while on federal probation? compare below link with military discharge and record......

I was told a few years ago that there were "NO Records" of any military service for this person for that time frame. FBI J E Hoover Director.

I do not expect anyone to respond to these questions... I am just sending documentation out there to pull a chain or two... a signal if you like... Whatever, it is now recorded before the fact....... not after. I still hold an Ace.

Tosh

I could find any:

- reference to Staton’s* age of the let alone that he was a minor lest alone that he was 14. The fact that “he entered a guilty plea” and was sentenced to and adult facility, the Federal Reformatory in El Reno, OK would seem to indicate he was an adult.

- Indication that Stanton or any minors ever joined the military.

- Indication he was in arrested in or was ever in New Orleans, he was in custody in Ozona Tx a town with less than 4000 residents halfway between El Paso and Houston, reference is also made to Quitman TX, another small town, both are several hindered miles west of LHO’s hometown.

- Evidence that he “on 4 years Federal probation” his total sentence was “one year and one day”

- Indication what this case had to do with the assassination or what your involvement was, were you arrested with Stanton? According to John bio of you and other sources you were born in 1937 and joined the army in 1954 when you would have been 15 or 16.

Is this what you meant by “pull a chain or two”?

Len

* The person arrested for steeling the car was only identified as Stanton

I think you have missed something in your research. Where did you get the information you posted? Staton or whoever is not in the document I posted

Your post is miss leading as well as your tone. Post your references and documentation as to what you have in reference to my postings.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=3

My point: Young men were put into the army, as I was as a "test operation". I did not say the boys with me also went into the army with me..... I posted the court file and the military record to ask. "How could this be"? And stated what happened to me and how and why I went into the military at such a young age... If you look at the army discharge which has been posted, then you can see the dates... arrested, put on probation abd then within months (9mo) in the Texas National Guard, then Ft Bliss, 1953-54 and then rank of Cpl. and back to Texas in the Fourth Army Reserve as a Cpl. (not even 17 yet and a Cpl in the Forth Army. You were not even supose to be in the Reserve until you had completed one complete tour of duty (a min of two years.)

Anyway I am trying to help, but I would re research what I have said and posted today and last night. You might find it interesting the documents that did not surface years ago have now been released FOIA and the probation file on me has been un sealed. FACT.. From you tone I feel you are twisting matters and not looking at the right document. The people with me when we were arrested were Egune Huckby, Bob Plumlee (me), and Johney Farentello

The person you mentioned is nowhere in the document that I know of. Please show me. Again here is the link to the page that says the names of the boys involved.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=3

I think you have confused the Forum members with your post. I hope it was not intended. Please post your documentation and references as to your posting. This would be apreciated. My point: Young men were put into the army, as I was as a "test operation".

Thanks, Tosh.

This is all very interesting. James Dolan was associated with the Smaldones out of Colorado as well as a guy named George Fuqua who he ran small time poker game rip-offs with. Fuqua was killed in 1968 by James Cherry who a year later would also kill Dallas Deputy Sheriff Buddy Walthers.

All these crims were in turn associated with Jack Todd. We can also slide Jack Ruby into this melange of undesirables plus several other folk of dubious reputation. The Campisis, Lewis McWillie and R.D. Matthews all supporting cast in this drama.

One may even suspect that this network may have been employed for aspects of clean-up duty. In my opinion of course.

James

Now we go toward Mac Wallace? Careful or Lady Bird will jump from her grave and sick the "Boggy Man" on you.

Another name of that line.... "Jerry Stilley" (pho) Denver County Jail inmate brought up from Canyon City (doing life) on an appeal for killing a Denver cop. It was said he was connected to Denver's crime family and made a hit. Stilly killed himself in prison after all his appeals were thrown out. It seems he stabbed himself in the back.

The uses of children -- in both the legal and common definitions of the word -- by military and civilian agencies of the USG for any number of unholy/illegal purposes remains one of the most underdeveloped of our research topics.

Forgive my ignorance, but:

Do you care to define "Illusionary Warfare"?

Were minors regularly engaged in same?

Not sure how to answer that question. But I will try. we would play games and set up traps. Make it appear we were going to hit in one place while other teams would strike in a different direction...., kind of like a diversion tactic. We would use sound as a diversion and used the power of influence to create a false impression or direction and we did use a varity of methods. It was new at the time. It was "War Games". We used it in Dallas to hide our presents while looking for snipers. We were not the attack team as some have said. We were out of the Pentagon. But if its not in a book.., then it did'nt happen...so you can't use that because that goes againest the norm and accepted procedures.

Below is previous posting of a few years ago, Oct 16, 2004:

I have been ask a lot of questions about David Morales. In the past I have just past them off. Some ask me how Iknow he was not a player in the assassination of John Kenedy. I know some will take unkindly with this post, but following is information that was given to an investigative committee in 1991 Senator John Kerry's Iran Contra Re-Supply network ref; Dick Mc Call and John Winner.., close door session..." classified Top Secret Committee Sensitive".

Question: How do you know that Morales was not involved in the Kennedy assassination?

I was told by Tracy Barnes, John Martino, William "Wild Bill Harvey", and John Roselli shortly after the assassination, that David was in Miami.

The early records shows that Morales was in the JMWAVE complex at the University of Miami campus at 10am that day.. He signed in on the duty log sheet at 9:20 A.M. and at the gate at 8:45 A.M. He was checked in at the Green Mansions Resort Motel/Hotel the evening of the 22nd. Rm 102. Reference: Congressman Tom Downing 1975; Bernard Finisterwald Jr. 1981, and Arther Paisley (pho?) just before he was killed in a boat explosion on Chesapeake Bay.

Was that the Green Mansions Resort located in the Adirondacks, near Lake George in Chestertown, NY?

Green Mansions Hotel and Resort Miami Springs, Florida.... across the street from Eastern Airlines HDQ. The one you mentioned I think was owned by the same group. One of those places burned..., I think it might have been NY again not sure. The Green Mansions of Miami Springs was what is called "..a limited hang out..., or "cut-out'.. (known as classified methods and proceedures) Pilots of the region stay there and held parties there.

Tosh,

Regarding this connection from Colorado back to Dallas, would that be via James Dolan?

James

It could be, but I am not sure. I would not be in a position to know that lineage. However, I think you might be right. But I can't confirm that..... just can't remember. Farrentello and a "Jim Noland" used to "hang out-limited" at "Sloppy Joes" on Flagler in Miami. Noland was from Dallas and was involved in gun running and had something to do with Ceicel Franandez of Oak Cliff. I call that the "Texas Connection". But Lady Bird (if she were alive) would kick my A... can't say that word.

note: classified. referenced and documented in three seperate places as of June of 2007 FOIA (O.K. release Legal)

Below is previous posting of a few years ago, Oct 16, 2004:

I have been ask a lot of questions about David Morales. In the past I have just past them off. Some ask me how Iknow he was not a player in the assassination of John Kenedy. I know some will take unkindly with this post, but following is information that was given to an investigative committee in 1991 Senator John Kerry's Iran Contra Re-Supply network ref; Dick Mc Call and John Winner.., close door session..." classified Top Secret Committee Sensitive".

Question: How do you know that Morales was not involved in the Kennedy assassination?

I was told by Tracy Barnes, John Martino, William "Wild Bill Harvey", and John Roselli shortly after the assassination, that David was in Miami.

The early records shows that Morales was in the JMWAVE complex at the University of Miami campus at 10am that day.. He signed in on the duty log sheet at 9:20 A.M. and at the gate at 8:45 A.M. He was checked in at the Green Mansions Resort Motel/Hotel the evening of the 22nd. Rm 102. Reference: Congressman Tom Downing 1975; Bernard Finisterwald Jr. 1981, and Arther Paisley (pho?) just before he was killed in a boat explosion on Chesapeake Bay. And also another investigation recorded with the FBI Denver Colorado in 1964, SAC Scott Warner...recorded and on file at the Denver FBI office. Phoenix FBI was the OO and the Colorado State Reformatory deposition and interview was also field with the Denver FBI and recordered within another 302 file.. Phoenix was the OO for this investigation. Bernard Finisterwald tried to get this file from them and was told it had been destroyed along with the other 302's. The second time Finesterwald's filed a FOIA on this subject the request was denied for Security reasons. I was told the information was still classified in 1987. Tosh

note 01-11-08: Sec 12b to be declassified: Burnsfield

I'm sorry if this is rehash, but when did you meet Barnes, and when did you last talk to him?

Not sure but it was when he was associated with the DoD in Domistic Operations. I am not sure of the year but it was the time when "Wild Bill" Harvey had the Desk. Also Southwest Aero Charter and Southwest Airmotive of Dallas Texas had an employment record on Tracy Barns dating back to the fifties.... however I'm not sure if that is the same person. I worked for Southwest Airmotive, as a trainee aircraft mech in the early fifties (as noted on my army discharge) and T. Barns (Tracy) was a supervisor at S/W Airmotive. (1954 in the Army Reserve at Love Field worked at love Field) I never saw him after 63-64 I think but remember back to 57 and he was around Miami then, but not directly connected with those operations. I think 57-64 but its a long time ago. I know what I say will be recorded in stone and I am not allowed to mistake a date by a year or two. After all its been over fifty years. I find it hard to find my J-3 Cub anymore.., let alone start it.

LHO was about 14 when Marguerite "volunteered" his services to the CIA "false defector"

program by taking him to NYC for "testing". Read Harvey and Lee.

Jack

We LHO was in the Marines (or before) He attended the Illusionary Warfare training program at "Nags Head" NC (?) before going to Hawaii and being station in Japan. He was a very young man even then. So was I. (documented.. found in a 302 file declass 07) (note this file also states... "... that file has been purged..." Also in New Orleans reference is found as to this file number in a letter to Garrison. Perhaps Gary Shaw would like to comment.

Recently new de classified documents have been turned over to the MF Foundation and I have been told they are in process of being catalogued.

Also; I have been told that researcher Jay Harrison's work has been put on disk and will be forth coming. We will see.

Thanks Tosh. Ah, The 'Intelligence Community' - the 'gift' that keep on giving.....us reasons to restructure it. I believe the relevant documents can be found here.

Attatchment and pictures did not post... sorry

Thanks Tosh. Ah, The 'Intelligence Community' - the 'gift' that keep on giving.....us reasons to restructure it. I believe the relevant documents can be found here.

The CIA in Latin America

By Tom Blanton

Posted March 14, 2000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Today’s Washington Post features an op-ed on page A17 titled “Hardly a Distinguished Career,” written by National Security Archive director Tom Blanton and commenting on the CIA’s decision to award the Distinguished Career Intelligence Medal to the highest-ranking CIA official fired in a 1995 scandal for failing to inform Congress about the CIA’s ties to human rights abuses in Guatemala.

Document 1: The Biographic Register, U.S. Department of State, July 1973, p. 402

According to State Department biographical registers and journalistic accounts, the official, Terry R. Ward, started his career at the CIA in the early 1960s, initially in Laos as a paramilitary officer. He then served under diplomatic cover in a series of CIA stations in Latin America: Argentina in 1965 to 1968, the Dominican Republic from 1968 to 1970, Bolivia from 1970 to 1972, Venezuela from 1973 to 1975, and Peru from 1975 to 1977. By the middle 1980s, he had risen to the position of deputy chief of the Latin American division of the CIA’s directorate of operations. In 1987 and 1988, he was station chief in Honduras, supervising the CIA’s Nicaraguan contra operation. In early 1989, he returned to CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia, as chief of the Latin American division. In 1993 he became station chief in Switzerland, where he was when CIA director John Deutch fired him in 1995. For reasons of privacy, we have deleted the name of Ward's wife.

Document 2: CIA Training Manual, "KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation," July 1963 (excerpt).

Document 3: CIA Training Manual, "Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual," 1983 (excerpt).

The CIA used two secret manuals during Terry Ward’s career to train Latin American militaries and security services in interrogating suspects, one titled “KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation - July 1963,” and a updated version titled “Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual -1983.” These two documents were declassified in January 1997 in response to a 1994 Freedom of Information Act request by the Baltimore Sun, and the Sun’s threat of a lawsuit under FOIA. The Sun headlined its report on the documents (27 January 1997, by Gary Cohn, Ginger Thompson, and Mark Matthews) as “Torture was taught by CIA.” The Sun’s story noted the admonition on page 46 of the 1963 manual that when planning an interrogation room, “the electric current should be known in advance, so that transformers or other modifying devices will be on hand if needed.” The Sun reported that “...this referred to the application of electric shocks to interrogation suspects.”

The 1963 manual included a 22-page section titled “The Coercive Counterintelligence Interrogation of Resistant Sources,” which on page 100 admonishes that “drugs (and the other aids discussed in this section) should not be used persistently to facilitate the interrogative debriefing that follows capitulation. Their function is to cause capitulation, to aid in the shift from resistance to cooperation. Once this shift has been accomplished, coercive techniques should be abandoned both for moral reasons and because they are unnecessary and even counter-productive.”

The 1983 manual as declassified included numerous revisions made by CIA apparently in July 1984 in the wake of public revelations about a CIA “assassination” manual used by the Nicaraguan contras. The revisions added a full page following the table of contents labeled “Prohibition against use of force,” and overwrote in hand-printed letters most of the manual’s references to “coercive techniques.” For example, the 1983 sentence on the second page of the introduction read “While we do not stress the use of coercive techniques, we do want to make you aware of them and the proper way to use them.” The 1984 revisions overwrote “do not stress” with the word “deplore” and replaced the phrase “the proper way to use them” with the phrase “so that you may avoid them.”

Document 4: CIA Inspector General, "Report of Investigation: Selected Issues Relating to CIA Activities in Honduras in the 1980s," August 27, 1997 (and related documents).

The CIA Inspector General’s secret report titled “Selected Issues Relating to CIA Activities in Honduras in the 1980s” is dated 27 August 1997, and was declassified in September 1998 as the result of repeated requests by members of Congress and the National Security Archive on behalf of the Honduran human rights commissioner, Leo Valladares Lanza. Triggered by a series of reports by New York Times reporter James Lemoyne, the IG report detailed CIA’s knowledge of human rights abuses in Honduras, including the activities of the Honduran death squad ELACH working for the 316th Battalion of Honduran military intelligence. The 316th Battalion was specifically formed in the early 1980s to support the CIA’s program to interdict arms flows through Honduras from Nicaragua to the Salvadoran guerrillas -- the rationale given to Congress for the CIA’s development of the Nicaraguan contras.

Although heavily censored, the IG report and related documents confirmed that the CIA failed to followup CIA director William Casey’s 1986 commitment to Congress that the Agency would investigate ELACH and Battalion 316. Although the 316 Battalion was formally disbanded in September 1987, during Terry Ward’s tenure as Honduras station chief, an 18 February 1995 CIA cable concluded that “Although the CI [counterintelligence] division [under the Honduran armed forces chief of staff for intelligence, or C-2] retained some of the 316th military intel battalion’s functions and personnel [two lines deleted], a considerable number of the unit’s personnel, sub-units and functions, such as analysis centers, were transferred to other sections within the C-2.” In February 2000, the Honduran government announced that it would begin to pay reparations, initially in the amount of $2.1 million, to the families of 19 of the 184 acknowledged victims murdered by the 316 Battalion (see “Reparations for ‘Disappeared’ Hondurans,” in the Washington Post, 24 February 2000).

Document 5: Excerpts from journalist Sam Dillon’s book, Comandos: The CIA and Nicaragua’s Contra Rebels (New York: Henry Holt, 1991, 393 pp.)

These excerpts describe (1) the State Department-funded investigation in 1986 and 1987 that established repeated instances of the murder or torture of prisoners by the Nicaraguan contras based in Honduras (pp. 197-201); (2) the contra’s 1987 “counterintelligence” campaign within their own ranks, which included CIA polygraph experts as well as routine torture and indefinite detention while the contras’ CIA handlers “turned the other way” (pp. 194-195); and (3) Terry Ward’s role with the contras (pp. 222-223).

Document 6: CIA Cable, From: Chief, Latin America Branch, To: Immediate Director, "Station Investigation of Human Rights Violations in Guatemala," October 15, 1991.

On October 15, 1991, the CIA station in Guatemala sent an “eyes only” cable to Mr. Ward (identified as “Chief/LA”) titled “Station investigation of human rights violations in Guatemala.” Summarizing the murder of U.S. citizen Michael Devine, the cable states that “the entire command structure of the military zone where the killing took place was controlled by men known to be capable of murder under the most casual pretext.” At least one of those commanders was a paid CIA asset. After discussing several other cases, the cable concludes by reporting that “the extrajudicial killing of certain categories of persons is almost routine.”

Document 7: President's Intelligence Oversight Board, "Report on the Guatemala Review," June 28, 1996 (excerpt).

On June 28, 1996, the President’s Intelligence Oversight Board reported that during the period of Mr. Ward’s direction of Latin American operations, the CIA provided “vital” funding, ranging from $1 million to $3.5 million per year, to the Guatemalan military intelligence services (the D-2 and the Department of Presidential Security) whose human rights records “were generally known to have been reprehensible by all who were familiar with Guatemala.” The Board said “we learned that in the period since 1984, several CIA assets were credibly alleged to have ordered, planned, or participated in serious human rights violations such as assassination, extrajudicial execution, torture, or kidnapping while they were assets -- and that the CIA was contemporaneously aware of many of the allegations.” The Board found Mr. Ward “derelict” in not ensuring accurate information went to Congress about the Devine case specifically and the Guatemala human rights situation generally -- the offense cited by CIA director John Deutch when he dismissed Mr. Ward in 1995.

The June 1996 Oversight Board report went on to express alarm that until 1996, the CIA had never established guidance for balancing the value of an asset’s information against other U.S. interests, such as “moral implications, the damage to U.S. objectives in promoting greater respect for human rights, the loss of confidence in the intelligence community among members of Congress and the public, and the effect of such relationships on the ethical climate within U.S. intelligence agencies.” The resulting “scrub” of CIA assets, according to the Post’s R. Jeffrey Smith (March 2, 1997, p. A1), “dropped more than a thousand secret informants from its worldwide payroll” for lack of productivity, criminality or human rights abuses. Smith wrote, “A disproportionately high number of informants dropped for such abuses were employed in Latin America during the 1980s and early 1990s.” This was the peak of Terry Ward’s CIA career.

Did Terry Ward train torturers? Did Terry Ward recruit human rights abusers and non-performing assets? We don’t know for sure. Conversely, did Terry Ward’s work save lives and make the U.S. more secure? Again, we don’t know. The declassified record tells us only that he was “derelict” in his Constitutional duty to inform Congress of Guatemalan human rights abuses, that he failed to followup the CIA’s commitment to investigate the Honduran military’s death squad, that he looked the other way when the Nicaraguan contras tortured their prisoners, that he kept on the CIA payroll Guatemalan officers who were murderers, and that he was a senior official in a system that rewarded CIA case officers for the recruitment of assets regardless of the damage done to U.S. interests such as promoting human rights or civilian control of foreign militaries.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tom Blanton is the director of George Washington University’s National Security Archive, which helped the U.N. historical clarification commission in Guatemala and the Honduran human rights commissioner get declassified U.S. documents on human rights abuses in those countries. Michael Evans, Tamara Feinstein, Catherine Nielsen, and Carlos Osorio assisted with the research for this article and electronic briefing book.

Mr. Plumlee,

The followng three questions certainly may be read as attempts to pry into your personal life. Yet such inquiries seem to be precisely what you are inviting.

A decision on your part to decline to answer will be accepted without prejudice.

1. How would you define, in detail, your relationship with Mary Ferrell?

2. Are you still in touch with/advising the founder(s) of Forgotten Families of the Cold War, and if so, what can you report on that group's progress to date?

Thank you.

Charles Drago

I met Marry in Dallas when Oliver Stone's people were just starting to investigate for the JFK movie. She was introduceed to me by Alex Hoe and John Stockwell. I did not talk to her in any detail at all. At that time I was kept away from other researchers. John Stockwell I think told her I was a CIA pilot. However at that early date there were no declassified documentation FBI or otherwise, to even indicate I was connected. In short. I never talked to her direct about any thing on JFK. We just chatted and then I was pulled away and taken out of the building. At that time I did not know who she was or what she was working on.... some years later... I sent two boxes of FBI FOIA de classified info about Roselil and other information that Bud Fensterwald and Gary Shaw had on me. (1981) Her reply was " ... claimed to be a CIA..."... which offended me. She also obtained information from Jay Harrison about Dallas and those connections of mine and tried to reach me. I did not respond...... a few years later I heard she died.

No. I am not in touch with any of the Forgotten Families. I know they and Sherry really worked hard for the truth, but got side tracked into BS stories from ego manics and their info and work went dead.... I think...... There are hundreds of stories like theirs, but will never see daylight.... The "clean-up artist" are at work.. alive and well

A few weeks ago I was told by a young researcher 20 years old, that I had never been a pilot and was never in a DC3 type aircraft. So xxxxx took anything I had to say with a grain of salt and as a result did not background check anything concerning JFK because XXX said I was a BS artist. Following is an example of how dis information is put forth. You can not prove a negative. Those who hi jack threads and put false information on forums do more damage to the research community than hundreds of CIA "clean-up artist".

I only post this as an example. Why it was never posted before now is beyond me.

E-Mail copy: (OK'd by sender)

Rodney. The following information was posted awhile back to discredit me. (2005) Another DC-3 pilot (Dixion) came to my rescue, but it was not posted or addressed on that forum at the time. And now I am being told because of that post that I have never been in a DC-3. Ha 2500 logged hrs in that bird. One old DC-3 pilot did come forward in by behalf but it did not get posted.

Would you care to comment on this? The following is the exchange.........

"...And once again, here is "Tooshee" posting an exact description of his "snitch-self" !! This is the clown who heroically tells some San Diego trash-tabloid scribbler about "waving" a white hanky out the window as a signal to the nasty-XXX dopers. Then, our hero, SITTING IN THE RIGHT SEAT of a DC-3, starts the left engine first.

Hey dumb-XXX !! Ever heard of "Google" ??!! Crank in "DC-3/C-47" and then tell us how you reached across the whole overhead panel to "start an engine". The left-seater starts the engines, "pseudo-zoomie"; and you always start the RIGHT ENGINE first, because that's the one which has both the electric generator and the hydraulic pump !! What a phony !!.......

.................

,.... .... ....

gals, and gullibles -- find my "map" and my phony "I ran dope for the big Uncle" crap-story -- Huh, pretty please !!

Get a life, and go bug "Wimp-Drank-to-much-Beer". ...". end of post.E Mail reply with permission

Reply to above derog post by XXX:

from MV Dixion to Education Forum Att. Mr Simkin, Education Forum:

Mr. Dixion's reply to XXX postings in reference to DC-3. ( Dixion was a DC-3 pilot DC-10 capt. for Cont. Airlines.

Mr. Dixion's reply to post

"... The following is not true. I tried to counter this wrong information but could not because I am not a member, nor do I want to be one. I thought you might like this information. I would think other DC-3 pilots would come forward and support a fellow pilot.

December 06. Capt Dixion's reply. note. He could not reply to post because he was not a member of that forum.

"....My name is M.V. Dixion and I live outside Escondido Ca. I was directed to this website by another pilot friend of mine. I am a retired Airline pilot and flew the DC-3 for seven years in the 1960-67, and have over six thousand hours in that aircraft. I retired from the Airlines after 35 years, with the same company, in 1994 as a DC-10 Capt. based out of LAX.

I notice the slam on this fellow pilot and thought I would add my two cents worth.

1. Yes you can start a DC-3 from the right hand seat. In fact I have flown the DC-3 solo many times from the right seat.

2. The gentleman who stated that the hydraulic punp is on the left engine is wrong. The DC- 3 had hydraulic pumps on both engines Pratt&Whittney 1830's (and 1830-92 series of engines) Perhaps the gentleman has his aircraft mixed up. The DC-4 had the hyd- pump on the number 3 engine Ask any pilot about this.

I think this person wants to discredit Mr Plumlee who ask for information about an article and map. I see it as an attack on the person who ask for information. But that is not my interest to get engaged in that sort of debate. Anyway the information about the DC-3's hyd pump is wrong, as well as other statements made by himI

If you have questions you can reach me through the ALPA and I would be happy to reply in more detail. I do not like to see a pilot take in in the shorts as this person seems to want to do to the DC-3 pilot, Plumlee) who only ask a question about a map..

I reference this exchange on the Education Forum.

Poster's, remarks and reply to Mr. Plumlee's question asking for help in locating a map of Central America: (2004-2005)

Hello Tosh, (Rondey Stitch 2008)

Thanks for giving me the referrals. I copied them to my computer and will print them out and absorb the details when my printer is fixed. Everything sounds interesting.

........ .......... .....

I read the negative comments. If it were me, I'd ignore it. Further, if you had a type rating in the DC-3, that would immediately discredit the other party and then I'd drop it.

I flew the DC-3 (got my type rating in it from American Flyers, Fort Worth, in 1951, and also type rated in the DC-4, with lots of time in that. It has been many decades ago, but I can not see any problem with either pilot's positions starting the engines. The sequence of engine starts in the DC-4 were 3, 4, 2, 1.

The ratings I received were DC-3, DC-4, DC-8, Convair 240//340/440 and the 880 jet; Martin 202/404; Curtis C-46. I received one of the first ATP pilot ratings in Japan, # 170 (Orville Wright was before me!!!)

Again, why not get your story out, and it could be not only in print form but on the Internet.

Best wishes,

Rodney Stich End of Email

P.S. I was warned when I used the word S... and the word A.. H...e in a reply and If I did not stop I would be taken off the forum. Makes me wonder about this form of selective enforcement found on this Forum.

I support the work on this forum and John Simkin's dedication to try and get to the truth about Dallas and beyond. I would like to see its members focus on issues and supporting evidence and the facts and information which is available from dedicated researchers.

I have been warned by the powers that be not to go on Forums anymore. Well I am not the type that will be intiminated by those A.. H... e's

Here I am. Now take you best shot.

Edited for language.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=2

What were young men as young as 14 doing in the US Army? The following link indicates an arrest in New Orleans in July 52 and then this person was husseled into the army approx 4mo later (Oct 52) and sent to Ft Bliss for training in Oct 52-54. What Units did these young men go into and how were they used and why? Interesting when you add Cuba, the mob, and Kennedy to the equation. If a person is on 4 years Federal probation for crossing a state line in a stolden can in 1952-53.... then how did he get into the US Army while on federal probation? compare below link with military discharge and record......

I was told a few years ago that there were "NO Records" of any military service for this person for that time frame. FBI J E Hoover Director.

I do not expect anyone to respond to these questions... I am just sending documentation out there to pull a chain or two... a signal if you like... Whatever, it is now recorded before the fact....... not after. I still hold an Ace.

Tosh,

Thanks for resuming your posting to this forum.

--Thomas

__________________________________________

I tried to post a reply but it did not appear... perhaps because I used the word CRAP and "BS"..... Prob got put on moderation

I'll try it again:

I have always tried to help forum members in their search for the truth but some do not like to focus on new information or searc for it or research it. Its easier to just say its....... Perhaps it is because my information interfers with their theories and ongoing work etc. If its not in a book... it did not happen mentality.

Examp. " A pile of GRASS in a barn yard. The farmer tells the city man... "That pile over there is GRASS and it stinks bad". "Thanks for the info, but I don't believe you". The city man goes and sticks his head in the GRASS " Damn if you aren't right. I did'nt know that until I put my head into it. That proves it".

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=2

What were young men as young as 14 doing in the US Army? The following link indicates an arrest in New Orleans in July 52 and then this person was husseled into the army approx 4mo later (Oct 52) and sent to Ft Bliss for training in Oct 52-54. What Units did these young men go into and how were they used and why? Interesting when you add Cuba, the mob, and Kennedy to the equation. If a person is on 4 years Federal probation for crossing a state line in a stolden can in 1952-53.... then how did he get into the US Army while on federal probation? compare below link with military discharge and record......

I was told a few years ago that there were "NO Records" of any military service for this person for that time frame. FBI J E Hoover Director.

I do not expect anyone to respond to these questions... I am just sending documentation out there to pull a chain or two... a signal if you like... Whatever, it is now recorded before the fact....... not after. I still hold an Ace.

Tosh,

Thanks for resuming your posting to this forum.

--Thomas

__________________________________________

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...ancedResults.do

The Farrentello's were friends of John Roselli and the Smaldones of Colorado. Plumlee became friends with Roselli in Miami. Farrentello in the 62-63 time frame worked on the ship REX and later JM/WAVE Miami Station........"....hip bone connected....""". (documented)

That's interesting. I've never seen a reference to a relationship between the Dallas crime family and the Denver/Pueblo family (led out of Denver by the Smaldone brothers and out of Pueblo by JIm COletti).

I've seen some references to the Farrentello's but this was more than I knew.

I hope the information helps in your research into this tradgic events of Dallas.

Here is another little tid bit for your research.

Check out the old burned down "KO KO Club and ITS big fire in Denver around the seventies and the Aloha Valley Beach Club and the owners (" Calverresie (spel pho) Grayhound racing at Denver, Pueblo, Phoenix and the some of the dog trainers and those who owned the "Concessions" of the time.

Some will say this is not related, but what can they say?

You will find a connection back to Dallas.... Have fun. I hope Ihave help in some small way... I'm playing with fire.... Its about time for the nuts on this forum to make their appearance.. Keep up the good work. "... again.., the hip bone connected to the leg bone and the leg bone connected to ...".

Tosh,

Regarding John Farrentello, is he the same guy that in the late 1950's ran the Texas Nut Company?

James

James: I'm not sure. I do know that he had some interest in the "Starlite Club". and the "Rainbow Gardens". And at one time booked "Candy Barr" at Ruby's club. There was another person named "Shorty Wymer" ( Y mer phoe sp) who owned the "Knox Street theater, across the street from the Highland Park Pharmacy on Knox St during the war years and for awhile after. Not sure if that means anthing except they all knew Jack Ruby and hung out at the Sportatorum. All these people were close with Mac Wallace, Gordon Mc Clindon and others I can't recall from Dallas, Ft Worth, and, the Austin Texas region.

All these people had strong ties to the Dallas Police Department and gambling. They also had interest in the New Orleans and Miami area. But I do not know if there were any connections to the Nut Company you mentioned. Farrentello Sr. did know Ed Walker for whatever thats worth. A name comes to mind "Hoot Gibson" of east Texas and he associated with Texas elections officials and had many law enforcement contacks. Its been awhile.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=2

What were young men as young as 14 doing in the US Army? The following link indicates an arrest in New Orleans in July 52 and then this person was husseled into the army approx 4mo later (Oct 52) and sent to Ft Bliss for training in Oct 52-54. What Units did these young men go into and how were they used and why? Interesting when you add Cuba, the mob, and Kennedy to the equation. If a person is on 4 years Federal probation for crossing a state line in a stolden can in 1952-53.... then how did he get into the US Army while on federal probation? compare below link with military discharge and record......

I was told a few years ago that there were "NO Records" of any military service for this person for that time frame. FBI J E Hoover Director.

I do not expect anyone to respond to these questions... I am just sending documentation out there to pull a chain or two... a signal if you like... Whatever, it is now recorded before the fact....... not after. I still hold an Ace.

Not sure if this is going to work. If not I sent it to John and if he wants he can post it. The picture is a Dallas FBI taken in Dallas in Novermer 63 and was located a few months ago at the DPD.

"....Are their 'assassin teams' still operating? Are there "clean up artist" embeded in the media?.... does a bear crap in the woods?". BAT-316; SoA D-8 RTC SEC C

".....It was just four paragraphs under the heading “Other Matters” dealing with Marine Corps operations for next year, but each word reverberated at Quantico like a shot from a 105mm Howitzer.

Buried in the hundreds of pages that comprise the 2004 Defense Authorization Act, was the order that the mysterious death of Col. John Sabow, USMC, be reviewed and that “experts outside the Defense Department” investigate the medical and forensic evidence from the 12 year-old shotgun death.

Thanks to California Congressman Duncan Hunter, chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, the Marine Corps will no longer have absolute control on what is revealed by the new probe. And that could open a Pandora’s Box when the cover-up of Sabow’s murder is revealed.

More than 12 years has gone by since the colonel’s body was discovered outside his quarters at El Toro MCAS in California, a shotgun by his side. Evidence the Marine Corps chose to ignore showed Sabow did not commit “suicide.” For all these years, the Corps refused to re-examine the case. Politicians and most of the establishment media declined to get involved. Until now.

“This is something I have prayed for so long,” said Dr. David Sabow from his home in South Dakota. “My brother was murdered and his name blackened all this time. Now, at last, we may get to the bottom of what really happened!

".... various authors can be accessed from one location..".

Investigation of the death of Colonel James Sabow, USMC

The investigation of the circumstances of the death of Colonel James E. Sabow is continued in this report. The extraordinary quality of the photographs of the crime scene and autopsy was instrumental for this examination. Evaluation of the gunshot residue, back spatter residue, cranial injuries, blood spatter, the Colonel s bathrobe and the position of the body lead to the conclusion that Colonel James Sabow was murdered and an attempt was made to stage the body to appear that he committed suicide. The Colonel was rendered unconscious and mortally wounded by a devastating blow by a broad, flat club to the right occipital region of his skull prior to the intraoral shotgun blast. The reconstruction of the homicide crime scene indicates that three or more assailants were likely.

Summary of the case, by Dr, David Sabow

Shotgun Death of Col. James Sabow By Dr. Jon Nordby

Dr. Jon Nordby was retained by the Deaprtment of Defense to reanalyze all the evidence in this case. This is a link to the massive report by Dr. Nordby. Dr. Nordby concluded that Col. Sabow committed suicide.

Dr. David Sabow Critiques Dr. Nordby's Report

Bryan Burnett Critiques Dr. Nordby's Report

Investigation of the death of Colonel James Sabow:

Gunshot residue, backspatter and crime scene analysis.

Colonel James E. Sabow , USMC, died on January 22, 1991. He was found dead in the backyard of his home on the Marine Corps air base at MCAS, EL Torro, California. The circumstances of his death have been controversial for more than fourteen years. The gunshot residue (GSR) investigation in this case had remained, until this paper, incomplete. This paper examines the GSR as well as the backspatter residue associated with the clothing of Col Sabow. The results show that it is highly probable that the Colonel did not commit suicide, but was murdered. Enhanced photographs of the crime scene and autopsy also support the homicide scenario.

Letter to Congressman Duncan Hunter from Attorney Michael Jacobs (December 24, 2006)

Attorney Michael Jacobs recently retired from the Homicide Trials Division, Orange County District Attorney’s Office, has reviewed over 400 suspicious death cases and after reviewing the evidence of the Colonel Sabow death has concluded that this is a homicide.

Letter to Alberto Gonzales from Congressman Duncan Hunter (April 19, 2007)

Congressman Duncan Hunter, ranking member of the Armed Services Committee, has been involved in this case since 2003 when he requested a reinvestigation of the Colonel Sabow death through the Armed Services Appropriation Bill of 2004. The recent submission of the report by Bryan Burnett and Dr. Sabow, and more importantly, the letter from attorney Michael Jacobs, recently retired chief of the Homicide Trials Division of the Orange County’s District Attorney’s Office (El Torro Marine Air Corps Base was located in Orange County, CA).

Letter to Congressman Hunter from the Department of Justice (May 17, 2007)

The response letter from the Department of Justice to Congressman Duncan Hunter. The lack of a personal letter from Alberto Gonzales displays the continued lack of interest on the part of the Department of Justice to investigate the Sabow homicide.

Semper Fidelis – The Homicide of Colonel James E. Sabow

Dr. J. David Sabow, the brother of Colonel James Sabow, has devoted enormous amounts of time and resources into the investigation of the death of his brother. Dr. Sabow kept a diary of his extraordinary observations and experiences. This account of the events before, during and almost a year after the homicide is presented here.

[Edited by Bryan Burnett]

Sort of like the JFK matter.... the MO lives on.

It's worth a great deal.

What can you tell us about a "Pegasus" group?

Nothing..... but its in the soon to be released documents and I am sure your question will be addressed by others more qualified than I..

"....A little sidebar about PEGASUS.... "Dallas is a one horse town" . In the fifties another side was installed on PEGASUS and it could be seen for forty miles... Dallas was no longer considered a 'One Horse Town". Magnolia? PEGASUS/MAGSEA