William Plumlee

January 31, 2008

I was asked a question awhile ago via email from a young researcher. "How Come Your Still Alive?"

I was not going to respond. However, upon thinking about that question, I felt it was a valid question and deserved a reply. Sometimes we do not agree. Looking back on life, is a like Monday night football.., quarter- backing after the game is over. Its easy to see ll the mistakes made in the game.

The following is my reply... and I leave you in Peace:

"... Can't be said in 25 words or less:

The way to stay alive is to release various detailed information and documentation pertaining to an "event" is by getting the information in various creditable places and documented beyond doubt, before the fact. Even Gary Web did that and it worked until the press was turned against him... Also Col Sabow United States Marine Corp made a mistake by saying what he was "going to do", he should of done it and said this is, "what I did".

To stay in the shadows and be secret and play a secret game will get you killed or character assassinated. If you push and threaten and then not release your information that will cause you to have an accident, or have a heart attack, or commit suicide, or get run over by a truck, or the wings fall off your aircraft. Before the FACT is the key. That will keep you alive; at least until they can 'Defuse' you and your information..... OR you can make a deal... release just enough information and throw a donut to the wolves... go into their den and come out with what they want you to come out with... slanted, and criptic information to pass to those who are selected by the wolves, and those who are not informed as to how that dark world really works...

I call that working for the MAN. Playing both ends on the middle... you get paid for that. Convicted Felons usually go that route. Or make a deal. What some have said about me makes the MO fit for me as well as GPH and others. You can get caught in a vice when you play these games... You either go all the way and protect yourself before the FACT or you work for the Man..and Plant their information... Have I planted false information knowing it to be false? No I have not.. and I have a paper trail to prove it. I am on record of going against the MAN... and it has cost me dearly... IRS bank seized, burned out of my home; shot at and beat up more than once...others have also paid that price.

A few days before John Roselli was reported missing in 1976, I 'turned' and went against the powers that be. I was scared and I testified. And then I went into hiding and running. Soon I needed money and started flying for the MAN in the Drug War, but I documented everything I did and the routes I flew... some years later came the Contra and the escalating Drug War. That is when I came out from hiding and turned to save my own neck. I got every document, map, and FBI reports I could find and I turned it all of it over to the Senate of the United States before the fact. (documention) In hopes of getting someone to look into this "Out of Control" government we had lurking under the vail of demoracy and freedom. I pegged and revealed their "Special Interest" activites and reported it to the Senate. I sent a message and THEY sent one back...

Its not a game out there its real. The average eight to five can in no way comprehend that other world. However, today some in the INTEL world and the FBI, DEA and other alphabet people are starting to see the trail from the Hoover days... J Edgar Hoover had Mr. Hemming by the balls and Hoovers FBI twisted and Mr.Hemming went to his knees ..., well you, or some of you know the rest of that story.

Although Mr. Hemming and I did not see Eye to Eye (and that puts it mildly) I do and did respect his "early years" in his effort to work for and with the Cuban rebels and the people of Cuba for a democratic Cuba..., but I will always see him as a man caught in a vice and a fallen victim to the powers that be. Mr Hemming, in my view, was used and too, he was abused....and like me and others he made a lot of mistakes along the way... that was the way it was suppose to be. Some of us had to play the hand that was dealt.. I believe we create our on reality, good or bad. I pray Mr Hemming will RIP..., he did earn that and he did it in his own way. To that degree I see him as a Patriot. And I pass no judgements.

This post has been edited by William Plumlee: Yesterday, 09:43 PM

January 30, 2008

If Hemming really had significant knowledge of who was behind the assassination, why was he not among all the suspicious deaths over the years, particularly during the time of the HSCA? Why was he allowed to live to age 71 if he had a real story to tell?
Was it because of his value as a diversion, people always wanting to know what this person immediately identified with the JFK case had to say, no matter how implausible? (He told Weberman that E. Howard Hunt was one of the shooters and went down the TSBD elevator shaft by rope.) What if he happened to say too much? Or was it because he was involved in disinformation?

Why, in 25 words or less, did he live so long? (R.I.P.)

At the moment I don't have the energy to detail, but I think he was publicly mostly disinformation, but had [some] real information [and suspicions] and gave out little bits and pieces of these....along with the a heavy dose of disinformation - which kept him alive - others as well. In the end a tragic figure, rather than a villian, IMO.

I was asked a question awhile ago via email from a young researcher. "How Come Your Still Alive?"

I was not going to respond. However, upon thinking about that question, I felt it was a valid question and deserved a reply. Sometimes we do not agree. Looking back on life, is a like Monday night football.., quarter- backing after the game is over. Its easy to see ll the mistakes made in the game.

The following is my reply... and I leave you in Peace:

"... Can't be said in 25 words or less:

The way to stay alive is to release various detailed information and documentation pertaining to an "event" is by getting the information in various creditable places and documented beyond doubt, before the fact. Even Gary Web did that and it worked until the press was turned against him... Also Col Sabow United States Marine Corp made a mistake by saying what he was "going to do", he should of done it and said this is, "what I did".

To stay in the shadows and be secret and play a secret game will get you killed or character assassinated. If you push and threaten and then not release your information that will cause you to have an accident, or have a heart attack, or commit suicide, or get run over by a truck, or the wings fall off your aircraft. Before the FACT is the key. That will keep you alive; at least until they can 'Defuse' you and your information..... OR you can make a deal... release just enough information and throw a donut to the wolves... go into their den and come out with what they want you to come out with... slanted, and criptic information to pass to those who are selected by the wolves, and those who are not informed as to how that dark world really works...

I call that working for the MAN. Playing both ends on the middle... you get paid for that. Convicted Felons usually go that route. Or make a deal. What some have said about me makes the MO fit for me as well as GPH and others. You can get caught in a vice when you play these games... You either go all the way and protect yourself before the FACT or you work for the Man..and Plant their information... Have I planted false information knowing it to be false? No I have not.. and I have a paper trail to prove it. I am on record of going against the MAN... and it has cost me dearly... IRS bank seized, burned out of my home; shot at and beat up more than once...others have also paid that price.

A few days before John Roselli was reported missing in 1976, I 'turned' and went against the powers that be. I was scared and I testified. And then I went into hiding and running. Soon I needed money and started flying for the MAN in the Drug War, but I documented everything I did and the routes I flew... some years later came the Contra and the escalating Drug War. That is when I came out from hiding and turned to save my own neck. I got every document, map, and FBI reports I could find and I turned it all of it over to the Senate of the United States before the fact. (documention) In hopes of getting someone to look into this "Out of Control" government we had lurking under the vail of demoracy and freedom. I pegged and revealed their "Special Interest" activites and reported it to the Senate. I sent a message and THEY sent one back...

Its not a game out there its real. The average eight to five can in no way comprehend that other world. However, today some in the INTEL world and the FBI, DEA and other alphabet people are starting to see the trail from the Hoover days... J Edgar Hoover had Mr. Hemming by the balls and Hoovers FBI twisted and Mr.Hemming went to his knees ..., well you, or some of you know the rest of that story.

Although Mr. Hemming and I did not see Eye to Eye (and that puts it mildly) I do and did respect his "early years" in his effort to work for and with the Cuban rebels and the people of Cuba for a democratic Cuba..., but I will always see him as a man caught in a vice and a fallen victim to the powers that be. Mr Hemming, in my view, was used and too, he was abused....and like me and others he made a lot of mistakes along the way... that was the way it was suppose to be. Some of us had to play the hand that was dealt.. I believe we create our on reality, good or bad. I pray Mr Hemming will RIP..., He did earn that and he did it in his own way. To that degree I see him as a Patriot. And I pass no judgements.

This post has been edited by William Plumlee: Today, 03:13 AM

January 30, 2008

Rex, No offense to you personally, but I get to page 3 on this thread you suggest [or others] and am told I must get a membership in order to go further. I live hand to mouth since being 'done in' and having lost all my money and things FOR working on the JFK assassination and now am asked to pay money to work further on it?! I understand it may seem a trivial amount to some, but it is not trivial to me. I wonder what MF would feel about this. Truth is not to be sold nor squandered, IMO.

PETER. I WILL PAY YOUR FEES. ALTHOUGH I DO NOT ALWAYS AGREE WITH YOU RESEARCH AND CONCLUTIONS. HOWEVER, I RESPECT YOUR DEDICATION AND TIME ON THIS SUBJECT IN SEARCH FOR TRUTH.

PERHAPS REX CAN MAKE THE ARRANGEMENTS VIA EMAIL TO ME AND WE WILL GET YOU A MEMBERSHIP.

January 30, 2008

On a trip to NARA last year, I noticed that 5 documents in the HSCA Immunized Testimony boxes remained withheld in full. Most prominent were Santos Trafficante's immunized testimony of 14 Nov 1977, and a lengthy memo written later in preparation for his public testimony.
I made inquiries, and all 5 documents are now open in full, and last week I went to College Park and scanned them. See the page below for links to all of them, as well as other HSCA testimony I got while there (Priscilla Johnson McMillan and William Walter).

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/...timony_Released

Trafficante's testimony contained no bombshells that I could see - he did name Tony Varona as being hired into the anti-Castro plots, which I don't believe came out as such in his public testimony. But mostly Trafficante played dumb, pretending that the only reason he was brought into the plots was as an interpreter. Presumably no one else in Florida could be found who spoke both English and Spanish. Trafficante did himself bring up the British reporter in jail (Hudson, though not by name), but denied that Ruby visited him there.

I don't know why this and other testimony was withheld in full - I was told they simply "fell through the cracks." Maybe someone else will find a tidbit that I missed.

Rex

Rex. Not sure if this helps, but there are seven pages withheld in an FBI report dated approx August of 1976 (reference (62-2116 for correct dates) found within the PHX-72 OO (Office of Origin) field report) referenced as a FBI 62-2116- (???pgs) file. These pages were sanitized in full in 1993, but made reference to the death of John Roselli and his previous associates. (referenced Phoenix Organized Crime, Sgt Ed Salem and Sgt Harry Hawkins, as well as the Tri-State Drug Task Force, chaired then by Arizona Governor, Bruce Babbit. Also Senator Berry Goldwater's name was also found within these pages, but not sure in what context)

Also this report was part of information obtained from "Dade County Homicide, Miami Florida" in 1978 (I think). Those none sanitized pages made reference to Trafficante, John Farrentello, John Martino, Tony Varona, John Mc Cord, and Charles Nicolette, ? Mc Willie? I think but not sure. There were also references to the 'Grace Ranch' of Tucson Arizona and the 'Mc Cord Ranch of New Mexico'. The FBI file was sanitized, however the Dade County information was not and that information was not included within the FBI data banks of 1993. This subject came up during the hearings of Senator John Kerry's investigations into Iran/Contra and Narco.., which was Classified Top Secret Committee Sensitive, and remains classified as of this date. This information also "Fell through the cracks" so to speak

January 29, 2008

Tosh,
He's on your six. But he's shooting blanks.

In more ways than one.

ITS HIS JOB..., MAN! :rolleyes:

However, there are others out there who don't shoot blanks. But I do have a "Wing Man". And an ACE in the Hole.

Take care.

January 29, 2008

Taken from another thread which has become contaminated with clutter:

In reply to a post by Robert Howard......... thank you Robert for the leadin:

QUOTE(Robert Howard @ Jan 29 2008, 05:18 AM)

There is a document on William Plumlee in JFK Assassination files relating to John Martino, I am afraid it will not satisfy the allegations and charges being tossed back and forth.....

See

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/....do?docId=75745

Thanks Robert. I think the following FBI document should be added to the FBI file above. Notice how negative information is not sanitized, but some of the secret matters on other documents are sanitized and still classified... such as the Mc Cord Ranch, The Grace Ranch of Tucson... The trip to Galveston Texas with aircraft...Who was on board that aircraft and why were they going to Galveston Texas.?.. And too, we can't forget about the "Thunderbird Inn" in Las Vegas... and too, Santa Barbra California to see Holt...Why?. Of course this thread will never get to this stage of research because it will drift into clutter with matters of no value to the facts of what I was involved with in those days, or posted today... Again notice this document and too, notice that ALL my FBI files went to the Director himself J Edgar Hoover... HUMMMMMM

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/check4.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/FBIlist1.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/FBIlist2.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/FBIlist3.PDF

Also note the following file was also withheld from the FOIA request of 1993 and concerned ongoing investigations into Iran/Contra and the Mexico CIA Thing of 1989-90: (ref; Senate Hearings and testimony 1990-91...ref; Senator G. Hart and Senator J Kerry)

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/DEAfiles.pdf

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi9.PDF

(note; I received an Email asking who Roselli was in reference to FBI 62-2116 "The Roselli/Plumlee" file.)

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi9396.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbiresponse.PDF

note: FBI released 120 pages through FOIA in 1999 after a six year appeal fight. These files 1999 differ from the ones released in 1981. However it was said in 1993 there were no files on my FOIA request. Some of the sanitized sections in these 120 pages concern National Security as stated and marked.

(note: 7 pages found within this FBI 62-2116 are classified and the other three pages are sanitized totally blacked out at request of NSC National Security. note: the file number on Plumlee is the same file number as Roselli.... "The Plumlee/Roselli File" as some make reference.. Additional pages of this file are under another FBI number and has recently been declassified. That is a CIA file number. Plumlee was NOT the source of that information. It came from Military Intel; Pentagon.

Notice the FBI said they had "No Files or information as to Plumlee's FOIA request". However, some years later a few files were released... and a few months later a few more were released. Last year, more files were released for a total of over 400 pages and still counting. To me this raises a question: WHY and Who in the FBI tampered with the Plumlee FBI file? What would be the motive for this? Why would Hoover himself even be interested in this information? Why are the positive information of the Plumlee FBI file sanitized and the negative information stated by the FBI not sanitized?

The FBI stated I wrote checks all over the USA. However, "...No Checks could be found written by Plumlee...". as referenced within FBI Lab report.

I will help.... if I am allowed. Some out there know I can blow them and their stories out of the water. That leads to motivation on their part to see that this does not happen. Plumlee has to be discredited to protect their fabrications and falsehoods; and the disinformation that has been planted through out the years. And too, because these planted falsehoods have been written about in books... that makes these self serving statements true as the publics view as they are lead into believing falsehoods as Facts.

And Now on with my story.., if I am allowed...

These released documents as well as the recently CIA declassified information as well as documentation released from the Pentagon should be of interest in reference to JFK and that day. (detailed and referenced in book Deep Cover Shallow Graves)

I would like to start a New Thread on this But it too would soon be taken away into never never land..and anything I would have to say would be clouded and lost in the clutter... This is the reason for my book... " Deep Cover Shallow Graves".. I did not want to write this damn book but I was asked my many to restart the project. Even Jay Harrison wanted to see this book... But the United States Government at one point did not want to see it in print... Things have changed to some degree today and its a 'Look See" if you get my drift... It does have a chapter called "The Texas Connection".

Thanks again.

This post has been edited by William Plumlee: Today, 02:36 PM

January 29, 2008

On the 12th November I posted a message about the behaviour of members.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2224

This in itself has been taken over by personal bickering. I have therefore decided to make a new statement about the aims and objectives of this forum and to stress the kind of behaviour that we expect from members.

JFK Forum

The main objective of this forum is to bring together researchers into the assassination of John F. Kennedy. It is hoped that this forum will enable researchers to share information they have acquired about the case. In this way, the forum will become a major way of communicating information about the assassination to the wider community (we have a far larger number reading the forum than those posting information).

Rules of the JFK Forum

(i) All members have to provide a biography. A link to this biography should be added to their signature (see below for instructions how to do this).

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1471

(ii) All members should use a photograph of themselves as an avatar (see below for instructions how to do this). If you still find you have problems with this please email me and I will help you with this.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1861

(iii) Wherever possible, members should give references (books, documents, etc) concerning the comments that they make. This will help those carrying out academic research into this area.

(iv) Members should not make personal attacks on other members. Nor should references be made to their abilities as researchers. Most importantly, the motivations of the poster should not be questioned. At all times members should concentrate on what is being said, rather than who is saying it. It is up to the reader to look at the biography submitted by the poster, to judge whether they are telling the truth or not. The word “xxxx” is banned from use on the forum.

(v) Members should take care over the accuracy of their postings. This includes spellings, capital letters, etc. This is important as the forum is read by young students and therefore we should not be setting them a bad example. I would suggest you write initially in a word processing program that automatically checks spellings, etc. The finished work can then be copied and posted into the forum.

(vi) Make sure your postings are relevant to the thread. Please start another thread if your comments do not belong to any existing threads.

(vii) When you start a thread please make sure it is relevant to the events surrounding the assassination of JFK. We have other areas of the forum where you can post about Politics, History, Mass Media, Sociology, etc.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?act=idx

(viii) Members should use the quote function of the forum when replying to people’s posts. To do this click the REPLY button. Pressing this button will allow you to reply to a topic, and have the text from a particular reply quoted in your own reply. This can be edited so that only the relevant passage is included. If you want to reply to several postings, copy and paste the relevant comments into your own answer. To make this clear use the colour options to highlight what someone else is saying. Type in the name of the person after the quotation.

(ix) It helps the reader if the text of your posts goes right across the page. If you find this has not happened, use the EDIT button to make sure it does. I do this for you whenever I can but I find it very time-consuming so I would prefer it if you did it yourself.

(x) There is no need to add your own name to postings. The forum software does this automatically.

Please feel free to add your comments about these rules. I welcome suggestions about other rules we might need. However, do not use this thread to reopen disputes with other members. If you do, they will be deleted.

;(iv) Members should not make personal attacks on other members. Nor should references be made to their abilities as researchers. Most importantly, the motivations of the poster should not be questioned. At all times members should concentrate on what is being said, rather than who is saying it. It is up to the reader to look at the biography submitted by the poster, to judge whether they are telling the truth or not. The word "xxxx" is banned from use on the forum.

note: (What about inferring or implying one is a xxxx?) (What about respect toward forum members reguardless of their views.... name calling at the likes?)

John what about innuendo references that a member is a xxxx without saying it but inferring that the person is not truthful?. Also "Cherry Picking" a document to use only the parts that benefit the attacker as to his views and attempting for personal reasons to falsely discredit the source of the information or poster? How about cluttering the thread for the purpose of stopping the flow of information?This is just my thoughts... It seems when I post I am attacked with "cattie remarks" and implied I am a xxxx..... I do not expect anything to be done about any of this except for me to get chastise for even bringing it up... I am not the only one who feels this way... a little respect for all and their information they might have would go a long way in exchanging information pro and con about what happened that day in Dallas.

Example the "Declassified Military Files" Post..., happens to be one of many postings which have been "hi-jacked for whatever reasons....

WHY has so many good researchers left this forum or no longer post? I do not expect a respond.

January 29, 2008

Posted at Plumlee's request - the reason he doesn't have his complete military files.

Thanks Peter; The documents posted were in no way the complete military file. I only posted the files obtained from the Texas National Guard at Camp Mabre Texas, because they were the only ones available to me. They were certified by the Adj. Gen of the Texas National Guard. In those files at the 49th Armored Div. HDQ was scattered pages of the Army Reserve and the regular Army found in their data base of which did not go to Saint Louis Mo and avoided the fire of 1972. These were not complete military files and I never said they were. I held the rank of Cpl in the Army Reserve as well as the Texas National Guard at the ages of 15-16-17. The post and document reflects I was in the military at 14-18 as those documents state. And I posted documentation to that effect. From 1952 until 1955 these files state for whatever reasons I was in military status. Others are still sealed.

The VA found and obtained another file from the "Pentagon, JC-2" which was much more detailed as to my military record and as a result I was awarded full VA benefits. Parts of that file are still "Classified" at the request of the CIA. May 1964.

I hope this helps you in your research. I have many other documents and documentation, as to what I have testified to the Senate of the United States and the Church Committee of (1974, I think it was) Because of the nature of that testimony some of it was behind close doors as the documentation states and was classified.

January 29, 2008

There is a document on William Plumlee in JFK Assassination files relating to John Martino, I am afraid it will not satisfy the allegations and charges being tossed back and forth.....
See

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/....do?docId=75745

Thanks Robert. I think the following FBI document should be added to the FBI file above. Notice how negative information is not sanitized, but some of the secret matters on other documents is sanitized and still classified... such as the Mc Cord Ranch, The Grace Ranch of Tucson... The trip to Galveston Texas...Who was on board that aircraft and why were they going to Galveston Texas... And to, we can't forget about the "Thunderbird Inn" in Las Vegas... and too, Santa Barbra California to see Holt...Why?. Of course this thread will never get to this stage because it will drift into clutter with matters of no value to the facts of what I was involved in those days... Again notice this document and too, notice that ALL my FBI files went to the Director himself J Edgar Hoover... HUMMMMMM

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/check4.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/FBIlist1.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/FBIlist2.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/FBIlist3.PDF

Also note the following file was also with held from the FOIA request of 1993 and concerned ongoing investigations into Iran/Contra and the Mexico CIA Thing of 1989-90:

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/DEAfiles.pdf

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi9.PDF

(note; I received an Email asking who Roselli was in reference to FBI 62-2116 "The Roselli/Plumlee".)

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi9396.PDF

(note: 7 pages found within this FBI 62-2116 are classified and the other three pages are sanitized totally blacked out at request of NSC National Security. note: the file number on Plumlee is the same file number as Roselli.... "The Plumlee/Roselli File" as some make reference.. Additional pages of this file are under another FBI number and has recently been declassified that is a CIA file number. Plumlee was NOT the source of that information. It came fromMilitary Intel; Pentagon.

Notice the FBI said "No Files or information" However, some years later a few files were released... and a few months a few more were released. Last year, more files a total of over 400 pages and counting. To me this raises a question: WHY and Who in the FBI tampered with the Plumlee FBI file. What would be the motive for this? Why would Hoover himself even be interested in this information? Why are portions of the Plumlee FBI file sanitized and the negative information not sanitized?

I will help.... if I am allowed. Some out there know I can blow them and their BS stories out of the water. That leads to motivation on their part to see that this does not happen. Plumlee has to be discredited to protect their BS and falsehoods and the disinformation that has been planted through the years.

And Now on with my story if I am allowed...

These released documents as well as the recently CIA declassified information as well as documentation released from the Pentagon should be of interest in reference to JFK and that day. (detailed and referenced in book)

I would like to start a New Thread on this But it too would soon be taken away into never never land..and anything I would have to say would be clouded and lost in the clutter... This is the reason for the book... " Deep Cover Shallow Graves".. I did not want to write this damn book but I was asked my many. Even Jay Harrison wanted to see this book... But the United States Government at one point did not want to see it in print... Things have changed to some degree today and its a 'Look See" if you get my drift... Thanks again.

January 28, 2008

This is a typical document from FBI on Plumlee....he obviously wasn't selling Girl Scout Cookies....

Finally!

Something which one can thoroughly evaluate.

Can not speak for others, but that most certainly convinced me.

However, perhaps it would be best were I to NOT mention exactly what it convinced me of.

"he obviously wasn't selling Girl Scout Cookies"

Perhaps not, and I would have to go back and check the US Code to see if "stealing" Girl Scout Cookies was a Federal Crime at the time.

http://openlettersmonthly.com/issue/he-died/

I can only think that Thomas is jealous of the fact his cookie sales didn't get as much blacked-out due to national security. Oh, the burdens we all have to bear in life.....

Oh, the burdens we all have to bear in life

How true!

The burden of "ignorance" has always weighed heavily onto the progress of all cultures and nationalities.

Now!

The Train just went by (Mississippi Export/aka "Peanut Special") and it dawned that perhaps this topic should also get back onto the "right track". (The Peanut Special can not get diverted as it has only one set of tracks).

First off:

The expunged FBI record of questioning of some group of underage kids who may or may not have been involved in an auto-theft, has absolutely ZERO to do with the topic heading which is:

Declassified military file

The only connection in which this questioning would have any connection to military records would be if one can show, by documentation, that the individual was actually found guilty of the crime and thereafter actually "forced" into joining the military service under what was referred to as the "Juvenile Offender" status.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #22

I started this thread to answer the question; how did a young man of 14 get into the Regular Army, and too how young men bond (sic/aka bound) for prison were sent into the army to train for specialized military operations for whatever reasons.

-------------------------------

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=12092

I. How did Plumlee get into the National Guard at 14 while on 4 years federal probation?

--------------------------------------

I was accepted into the regular army and they (the army) knew of my probation and age

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #20

Would anyone have any interest in those two blocks on the form which have to do with "Juvenile Offender" status enlistment as well as that block which deals with convictions in Civil/Civillian Court.

As well as the "Probation" question block?

Last time that I counted, four years added to 22 Oct 1952 would equate to 22 October, 1956.

However, by this application date which was 9 Feb 55, the individual (applicant) was neither on probation nor awaiting final disposition of Civil Procedures.

HMMMMMMMMMMM?

Your nit-picking on this one issue doens't hide IMO you larger mission of trying to discredit Plumlee for more significant things he did later on - I'd suggest people not be fooled by what is rather transparently going on here. Again, it is what you don't discuss and address I find more significant that the minor points you try to score.

Post #20 Jan 27 2008 ".....Would anyone have any interest in those two blocks on the form which have to do with "Juvenile Offender" status enlistment as well as that block which deals with convictions in Civil/Civilian Court. As well as the "Probation" question block? Last time that I counted, four years added to 22 Oct 1952 would equate to 22 October, 1956. However, by this application date which was 9 Feb 55, HMMMMMMMMMMM?....".

End of quote

XXXX

Peter: Do not lower yourself to reply. Its a setup. The Facts speak for themselves:

FACTS DOCUMENTED IN POST BY PLUMLEE ON THIS FORUM:

1. FACT: I was in the Texas National Guard in 1952 and I was 14 years of age.

2. FACT : I was on 4 years federal probation at the time I went into the Texas National Guard.

3. FACT; I was still on federal probation at the time I went into the US regular Army,

4. FACT; I was still on federal probation when I went in the U.S Army reserve in Dallas Texas.

5. FACT: I held the rank of Cpl at the age of 16.

6. FACT: I held the MOS of 006 basic trainee US ARMY and later in the US Army reserve the MOS of 1795 tank crewman and continued to hold the rank of Cpl. I was not yet 17.

7. FACT: The juvenile file of Oct of 1952 (14 years of age) was SEALED by the court as required by law and the facts of the case were sealed.. (4 years federal probation and an agreement to enter the Texas National Guard as agreed to by the court on Oct 22 1952 as agreed to by my parents, the court, and the Texas National Guard. My probation office was a Mr Nolette of Tyler Texas and he worked my case with the United States Army.

8. FACT: The Juvenile file was unsealed in 1955 at the request of the Federal Government and the US military. The unsealed court records were sanitized by the CIA.

Note an sealed court case unsealed by the court, is not sanitized. It was sanitized later by the federal governments as to agreements to protect methods and procedures and a CIA private government training operation.

FACT: I was released from federal probation early (while I was in the US Army Reserve at Dallas Texas as requested by Capt Edward G Seiwell my CO at the time) The Court approved this formal request (found within the sanitized Pages of the probation report and court records and summations)..

9. FACT: How would anyone know what is in the sanitized pages document, except me, my mother, who is still alive at 90, and my family?

10. FACT How could a statement be made that it did not happen because the sealed court document can not be read or say it had?...How would anyone know what it said? All the pages as to any agreements and terms of the court are blacked (sanitized) out in its entirety. However, the statement below was made to infer I was not being truthful and too, I had fabricated my military service and the reasons I was in the military in the first place, as well as my being on four years federal probation at the time.

Previous quote by forum member: ".... the individual (applicant) was neither on probation nor awaiting final disposition of Civil Procedures. ..". Reference to Post of: Jan. 20,2008

11. FACT: I was injured in the US Army in 1954 and as a result was awarded VA benefits.

12. FACT: I received a gun shot wound in the right thigh as noted on my US Army DD214

Note; It was implied I was not injured and had faked the VA claim and the American tax payer was giving me a free ride at their expense. ( no reference ony a negative opinion)

13. FACT: In 1955 I went to work for the first of many CIA front companies as a aircraft flight mechanic for companies which were not even know about until 1970. Example; Regina Air Cargo, Riddle Airlines, Southwest Airmotive, and others. (As noted in FBI CIA FOIA declassified releases)

Again I state how could this be...? Was there help from the United States Government at the highest levels? Was the United States Government recruiting young troubled men who were bound for jail into a specialized military training program in the 1950's?. I say, Yes, they were.

I say they were and I have attempted to back up what I say with documentation which has recently been declassified and released. The information and documentation I have posted has been twisted, slanted, implied, infered and used to discredit me and my story and the Facts thereof. Some have attempted to mis lead members of this forum.., pulling and drawing them away from the truth and the facts of my statements.

For some, to say this did not happen, because some believe it did not happen, is not research. I posted what I believe and know, only to help the members of this forum.., and I tried to document what I said the best I could.

I have received absolutely No support from the Forum moderators when some have implied that I am a xxxx, a fabricator, and untruthful person When they post derogatory statements with absolutely no documentation that relates directly to my case, statements, and allegations. They post their opinions as Facts and manipulated the truth.

If I had done the same to these members, then I feel I would be, chastised, warned, and perhaps my posting privileges suspended. I see this as a 'Slanted Forum' special interest, and working for the MAN." I see, and feel, this Forum has lost its objectiveness in its quest for information and truth which might be related to the JFK Assassination and those responsible.

I am sure some had rather see me leave again or die again, because they know I know what they are and can prove it. However, this is not why I post on this forum or the subject matter I post. I am not interested in those type of people. I too, have real questions about JFK and that day. And I too, could learn. I have never said I know everything that happened that day. I have only said I know some things. I have asked for help from others but I get no respond, except from those who still feel they have all the answers and people like me do not know anything, or even exist... BUT if we do exist then we are LIARS, Fabricators, and untruthful people. They have to cover themselves at the expense of truth and facts. Because some of us are still alive and know their deeds and their fabrications and that they were never in the 'Ball Park". Never a player. They are poor lost souls who never made the grade..., and for that they can not forgive themselves.

"I am sure some had rather see me leave again or die again, "

As a general rule, one only gets to actually "die" one single time.

One can however, for benefit of publicity or whatever, fake their deaths many times.

So! You served in the National Guard, and were shortly thereafter dismissed due to "Minority"/aka the Guard having found that you were underage.

Thereafter, you managed to enlist into the Army Reserves, and from there went into active duty. Where again, you were dismised do to Minority, which also effectively dismissed you from the USAR as well.

However, while on active duty, by your own accounts, you were run over by a jeep, and :

11. FACT: I was injured in the US Army in 1954 and as a result was awarded VA benefits.

In addition:

12. FACT: I received a gun shot wound in the right thigh as noted on my US Army DD214

Perhaps you would be good enough to indicate exactly WHERE on your DD214 it indicates that you received a "service related" gunshot injury.

6. FACT: I held the MOS of 006 basic trainee US ARMY and later in the US Army reserve the MOS of 1795 tank crewman and continued to hold the rank of Cpl. I was not yet 17.

There is no "MOS of 006"!

The military designation of '0006" represents that you were a "Basic Trainee". One does not receive their "MOS" until such time as they have completed the next 8 to 9 weeks of training which constitutes Advanced Individual Training.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States..._Basic_Training

Basic Training is divided into two parts: Basic Combat Training (BCT) and Advanced Individual Training (AIT).

Basic Combat Training, or BCT, consists of the first 9 weeks of the total Basic Training period. It is identical for all Army, Army Reserve, and Army National Guard recruits.

Advanced Individual Training, or AIT, consists of the remainder of the total Basic Training period. It is where recruits train to eventually become experts in their chosen field, and it is therefore different for each available Army career path.

Advanced Individual Training

Advanced Individual Training, or AIT, is where new soldiers receive specific training in their chosen MOS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_MOS

Additionally! Under the assumption that you actually completed Basic and AIT training and were awarded the MOS of Tank Driver/aka Tank Crewman, then the MOS would have been MOS 3795, NOT MOS 1795.

The MOS 1795 was reserved for the senior ranking members of the Tank Crew and you would not have been awarded this MOS directly out of AIT/Advanced Individual Training.

Tank crewman – 3795

Tank driver – 3795

--------------------------------

Tank ammunition section chief – 1795

Tank commander – 1795

Tank first sergeant – 1795

Tank leader – 1795

Tank platoon sergeant – 1795

http://www.koreanwar-educator.org/topics/p_mos.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now! Were one to assume and accept that you did in fact complete the 8 to 9 weeks of Basic Training as well as the 8 additional weeks of AIT to get the MOS of a Tank Driver, then that comes to about 16 to 17 weeks of training/aka 4-months.

Thereafter, there is absolutely nothing in regards to any additional "training" which you either received or were engaged in which would have given you any form of "covert" operations and/or classified training training.

Personally, I could care less as to whether you drove a tank or a submarine.

Had you, (and your record most definitely does not reflect so) completed any complete assignment/tour of duty with the National Guard; the USAR; Active Duty; or any combination thereof, then you would have done more than many.

In addition, you have sought to present that during this completely lack-luster EXTREMELY short period of service in the NG; the USAR; and/or Active Army, that you received some sort of clandestine training which prepared you for CIA operative work.

And, I adamantly state that this is pure BS!

Your own presented documents demonstrate that you were a Private E-1 when you first entered active duty.

That, upon your "Minority" release from Active Duty Service, you had served a sum total of 4-months and 1-day of actual credited active service time, and this included your NG (0 days) USAR (0 days) and Active Duty (4-months& 1-day) time.

Which, just so happens to be about the amount of time required for one to actually complete Basic and Advanced Individual Training and actually gain a true MOS.

Therefore, a prudent person just might ask exactly when was it that you attended these "covert operative" schoolings run by the Military/aka Army, and were they attended on your own time to the extent that you did not even receive credit for time served, which also is a principal requirement for promotions and for pay purpose calculations?

Your "credibility" and/or lack thereof in attempting to present that you have had some great "secret" training and were thusly a operative of the CIA, leads directly to your credibility and/or lack thereof in whether anything you say relative to the JFK assassination has credence.

Unfortunately, irrelevant as to credibility, prior history has well established that many will believe about anything on the subject of the JFK assassination.

Which unfortunately has brought about that no one of any sensibility will pay a lot of attention to any claims on the subject, irrelevant as to whether factual or not.

Hopefully, these little discussions and/or revelations will at least forwarn many prior to their diving off headfirst into this newly presented rabbit hole.

I would ask the Forum audience to ask themselves why one Doubting Thomas is trying so very hard to 'assassinate' the information Plumlee is trying to provide.....yes many believe or say they do....strange things abou the JFK Assassination - the strangest being any part of the official version.

SAVE YOUR BREATH AND TIME PETE. NOBODY IS READING THIS THREAD. NOBODY CARES WHAT HE THINKS, OR WHAT I POST. DON'T WASTE YOU TIME WITH IDIOTS.

I would have posted that other MOS document, but can't attatch anything because my signal is to low out here. Its not important anyhow and I do not have the time to waste on this.

January 28, 2008

I pray I am wrong I have seen this developement once before. I post this for no other reason than to establish what I think is about to happen once again.

I feel the wheels are again slipping into gear and moving. I fear for Obama. I pray that he gets solid security protection and fast. You can not win in this country unless you are part of the machine, (by partisan.) If it looks like you might go againest the powers that be..., then those powers that be..., will take you out and cover their tracks and pin it on some poor unsuspecting soul and then he too, will be eliminated. History will repeate itself... This is what I feel.

I believe we Americans are fast approaching that point of no return with these pending elections. It has already been decided who will win this upcoming election in Nov. And I believe a "LONE NUT" or a bunch of "Lone Nuts" are being Groomed as I type this.

America has too many sins and cannot afford to have them revealed to the world.., and they or those powers will shut Obama or anyone else who changes or attempts to change the direction of this election. Perhaps, in my own way this post might help to stop or change that direction. History, I feel is about to repeat itself once again. I believe and feel strongly that there is a movement to assassinated him. I believe someone are lurking out there to protect the status quo; and all the power of the good people of this nation and those which are in government must protect this man anyway we or they can... That is why I write this... I feel I am doing my part to stop this before it escalates and goes beyond the secret planning stages. I know, I too, am playing with the powers that be at this moment.... BUT, if it happens it is before the fact... This is what I see, and what I believe, and what I am compelled to write. I pray I am wrong.

January 28, 2008

This is a typical document from FBI on Plumlee....he obviously wasn't selling Girl Scout Cookies....

Finally!

Something which one can thoroughly evaluate.

Can not speak for others, but that most certainly convinced me.

However, perhaps it would be best were I to NOT mention exactly what it convinced me of.

"he obviously wasn't selling Girl Scout Cookies"

Perhaps not, and I would have to go back and check the US Code to see if "stealing" Girl Scout Cookies was a Federal Crime at the time.

http://openlettersmonthly.com/issue/he-died/

I can only think that Thomas is jealous of the fact his cookie sales didn't get as much blacked-out due to national security. Oh, the burdens we all have to bear in life.....

Oh, the burdens we all have to bear in life

How true!

The burden of "ignorance" has always weighed heavily onto the progress of all cultures and nationalities.

Now!

The Train just went by (Mississippi Export/aka "Peanut Special") and it dawned that perhaps this topic should also get back onto the "right track". (The Peanut Special can not get diverted as it has only one set of tracks).

First off:

The expunged FBI record of questioning of some group of underage kids who may or may not have been involved in an auto-theft, has absolutely ZERO to do with the topic heading which is:

Declassified military file

The only connection in which this questioning would have any connection to military records would be if one can show, by documentation, that the individual was actually found guilty of the crime and thereafter actually "forced" into joining the military service under what was referred to as the "Juvenile Offender" status.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #22

I started this thread to answer the question; how did a young man of 14 get into the Regular Army, and too how young men bond (sic/aka bound) for prison were sent into the army to train for specialized military operations for whatever reasons.

-------------------------------

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=12092

I. How did Plumlee get into the National Guard at 14 while on 4 years federal probation?

--------------------------------------

I was accepted into the regular army and they (the army) knew of my probation and age

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #20

Would anyone have any interest in those two blocks on the form which have to do with "Juvenile Offender" status enlistment as well as that block which deals with convictions in Civil/Civillian Court.

As well as the "Probation" question block?

Last time that I counted, four years added to 22 Oct 1952 would equate to 22 October, 1956.

However, by this application date which was 9 Feb 55, the individual (applicant) was neither on probation nor awaiting final disposition of Civil Procedures.

HMMMMMMMMMMM?

Your nit-picking on this one issue doens't hide IMO you larger mission of trying to discredit Plumlee for more significant things he did later on - I'd suggest people not be fooled by what is rather transparently going on here. Again, it is what you don't discuss and address I find more significant that the minor points you try to score.

Post #20 Jan 27 2008 ".....Would anyone have any interest in those two blocks on the form which have to do with "Juvenile Offender" status enlistment as well as that block which deals with convictions in Civil/Civilian Court. As well as the "Probation" question block? Last time that I counted, four years added to 22 Oct 1952 would equate to 22 October, 1956. However, by this application date which was 9 Feb 55, HMMMMMMMMMMM?....".

End of quote

XXXX

Peter: Do not lower yourself to reply. Its a setup. The Facts speak for themselves:

FACTS DOCUMENTED IN POST BY PLUMLEE ON THIS FORUM:

1. FACT: I was in the Texas National Guard in 1952 and I was 14 years of age.

2. FACT : I was on 4 years federal probation at the time I went into the Texas National Guard.

3. FACT; I was still on federal probation at the time I went into the US regular Army,

4. FACT; I was still on federal probation when I went in the U.S Army reserve in Dallas Texas.

5. FACT: I held the rank of Cpl at the age of 16.

6. FACT: I held the MOS of 006 basic trainee US ARMY and later in the US Army reserve the MOS of 1795 tank crewman and continued to hold the rank of Cpl. I was not yet 17.

7. FACT: The juvenile file of Oct of 1952 (14 years of age) was SEALED by the court as required by law and the facts of the case were sealed.. (4 years federal probation and an agreement to enter the Texas National Guard as agreed to by the court on Oct 22 1952 as agreed to by my parents, the court, and the Texas National Guard. My probation office was a Mr Nolette of Tyler Texas and he worked my case with the United States Army.

8. FACT: The Juvenile file was unsealed in 1955 at the request of the Federal Government and the US military. The unsealed court records were sanitized by the CIA.

Note an sealed court case unsealed by the court, is not sanitized. It was sanitized later by the federal governments as to agreements to protect methods and procedures and a CIA private government training operation.

FACT: I was released from federal probation early (while I was in the US Army Reserve at Dallas Texas as requested by Capt Edward G Seiwell my CO at the time) The Court approved this formal request (found within the sanitized Pages of the probation report and court records and summations)..

9. FACT: How would anyone know what is in the sanitized pages document, except me, my mother, who is still alive at 90, and my family?

10. FACT How could a statement be made that it did not happen because the sealed court document can not be read or say it had?...How would anyone know what it said? All the pages as to any agreements and terms of the court are blacked (sanitized) out in its entirety. However, the statement below was made to infer I was not being truthful and too, I had fabricated my military service and the reasons I was in the military in the first place, as well as my being on four years federal probation at the time.

Previous quote by forum member: ".... the individual (applicant) was neither on probation nor awaiting final disposition of Civil Procedures. ..". Reference to Post of: Jan. 20,2008

11. FACT: I was injured in the US Army in 1954 and as a result was awarded VA benefits.

12. FACT: I received a gun shot wound in the right thigh as noted on my US Army DD214

Note; It was implied I was not injured and had faked the VA claim and the American tax payer was giving me a free ride at their expense. ( no reference ony a negative opinion)

13. FACT: In 1955 I went to work for the first of many CIA front companies as a aircraft flight mechanic for companies which were not even know about until 1970. Example; Regina Air Cargo, Riddle Airlines, Southwest Airmotive, and others. (As noted in FBI CIA FOIA declassified releases)

Again I state how could this be...? Was there help from the United States Government at the highest levels? Was the United States Government recruiting young troubled men who were bound for jail into a specialized military training program in the 1950's?. I say, Yes, they were.

I say they were and I have attempted to back up what I say with documentation which has recently been declassified and released. The information and documentation I have posted has been twisted, slanted, implied, infered and used to discredit me and my story and the Facts thereof. Some have attempted to mis lead members of this forum.., pulling and drawing them away from the truth and the facts of my statements.

For some, to say this did not happen, because some believe it did not happen, is not research. I posted what I believe and know, only to help the members of this forum.., and I tried to document what I said the best I could.

I have received absolutely No support from the Forum moderators when some have implied that I am a xxxx, a fabricator, and untruthful person When they post derogatory statements with absolutely no documentation that relates directly to my case, statements, and allegations. They post their opinions as Facts and manipulated the truth.

If I had done the same to these members, then I feel I would be, chastised, warned, and perhaps my posting privileges suspended. I see this as a ‘Slanted Forum' special interest, and working for the MAN." I see, and feel, this Forum has lost its objectiveness in its quest for information and truth which might be related to the JFK Assassination and those responsible.

I am sure some had rather see me leave again or die again, because they know I know what they are and can prove it. However, this is not why I post on this forum or the subject matter I post. I am not interested in those type of people. I too, have real questions about JFK and that day. And I too, could learn. I have never said I know everything that happened that day. I have only said I know some things. I have asked for help from others but I get no respond, except from those who still feel they have all the answers and people like me do not know anything, or even exist... BUT if we do exist then we are LIARS, Fabricators, and untruthful people. They have to cover themselves at the expense of truth and facts. Because some of us are still alive and know their deeds and their fabrications and that they were never in the ‘Ball Park". Never a player. They are poor lost souls who never made the grade..., and for that they can not forgive themselves.

January 24, 2008

Did I read somewhere that Tosh Plumlee testified before the Kerry Committee in the 1980s?
BK

Bill, I don't know if it is in 'print' anywhere, but Tosh and I, and perhaps a few others, have mentioned it over time in posts. Yes. He was subpeonaed and testified in secret sessions. I confirmed this after had told me he had by going to Kerry's Office in D.C. and discussing this matter specifically with one of his chief Aides. He was asked questions on Iran-Contra type subjects and [surprisingly] also about his Dallas flight, and matters related to it. [Knowing the general material Kerry got from Tosh and other witnesses, it was my belief the Secret Government was not likely going to allow him to ever become President.] So, that he testified is certain...but don't expect to see the testimony. As I understand it from Tosh, he had later to review his testimony after it was transcribed, sign it and sign that he was aware it was classified and couldn't disclose it. One would have to file a FOIA and I doubt it would meet with a lot of success. Peter

Peter,

It would be nice to hear what TP has to say about it before he disapears or dies again.

I know others who testified before the Kerry Committee and I've read their testimony. I don't believe the Kerry Com docs are hidden away because I've read some of them.

I'd still like to hear TP's side of the story.

BK

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/senate1.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/senate2.PDF

http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/sengaryhart.PDF

Look at the file number and request the testimony through FOIA and see what it says "Classified Top Secret; Committee Sensitive". as of Sept 2006.... I did not classifie... I do not have a "Side" of any story... of course you are the expert.

January 24, 2008

Will anything change about what is written down as the official version of what happened on that fateful day? As each day/year passes, it becomes less likely. I am of the opinion that history will record that a nut who supported Castro shot the president, or even that Castro had it done.
"If so, take heart that you've been part of enabling that falsehood by yielding it to future historians."

Greg,

Are you saying that I have posted something damaging to the effort to find the truth about JFK's murder,? Or, are you saying that I am part of the cover-up. Your words don't make any sense to me, as I was only stating my feelings out loud, with, I might add, received the response that I had hoped for, except for you. Tosh and Harry seemed to have similar feelings. I am very surprised, though, that more members of the forum have not responded. None the less, all that I was attempting to say in the sentence above is that the " official" govt. closure to the case will come after Castro's death by blaming him or if admitting conspiracy on any level by stating that people loyal to him were responsible. I do not believe this for a minute. The High Noon ambush in Dallas Texas was propagated or instigated by people inside the government of the United States.

Terry

Terry: I have only a minute. I am in transit at the moment but wanted to say....

#1 Don't get "Sucked" into Never-Never Land by some on this forum.. There are good researchers working here and I think you will see why they work in the shadows. I will be brief and state what I believe:

#2 I believe the "Texas Clan" had the means, motive, and opportunity, to kill the President. AND they did it.

#3 I believe LHO did not fire a shot. That he did not kill anyone that day.

#4 I believe that Castro and the mafia, or the CIA as an agency, as such, had nothing to do with the assassination. However, I do believe that "The Texas" mafia (if I may use the term) is the whole key to finding the truth about that day.

#5 I know a "team" was sent to Dallas to STOP or Abort the pending hit. I know some of this information was available to the Pentagon and in good faith they acted. That does not mean the United States Government plan and carried out the assassination. BUT the Texas group used its contacts within the then current administration to jockey into position to make the hit and then lead the investigations into "Never-Never Land". And its worked for over forty years. Various personal within the CIA were aware of this pending hit as well as military Intel and called upon its sources (pro and con) to launch two separate missions. One to hit-- one to stop. Two groups fighting with each other for control of America's resources for special interest.

Can I prove this? Hell No. If and when I try... I too, get sucked into the land of NEVER and anything said is of no value. People hate me and anyone who dare goes where I go on this subject will also teast their wrath. I think you and others who even think in this direction will be discredited and waste hours and days defending your thoughts on this subject..... those who can control your thoughts by slight of hand and other means, and all the mechanics used ... will write the history as they see it and want you to see it. They will dictate what they want you to believe and twist what really happened that tragic day.

#6 Now its time for those to come and discredit my thinking on this subject by stating what a bad person. I am and have been...What a "first class" xxxx I really am..., perhaps even one of the assassins, but for sure a "fabricator" and a xxxx, and the likes. Your are not allowed these days to voice or write what I have just expressed... Its not proper to have these type of thoughts. Its not in ones best health. The Gatekeeps of Texas are still around and still have a small degree of power in the political arena of our day. They have a multiple of sins to cover. AND they will do whatever is needed to protect their past miss deeds, as well as mis deeds of today.., at all cost.

I will be gone for a few weeks and it will be said 'I ducked and ran" like I always do and I refuse to answer the 'Hard' questions. These people see themselves as 'The Gate-Keepers" of truth as they see.., theywill suck up your time...., and you better believe them or they will do a number on you. I love America and always have..., but sometimes you have to pay a price to keep her free.... the cost is escalating more and more eachday.

Thanks for your time to let me vent. Now bring it on.

January 24, 2008

Could someone post pictures of the South Knoll where Tosh says he was under a tree during the assassination? I believe I had those photos before, but they were on a hard drive that went bad.
Kathy Collins

Kathy: Not to load you down. I get lost in these post so please forgive:

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/southknoll.htm

You might like to go to this link and the Cancellaro picture will come up (or should) The "Forked Tree" shadow is above the car, near the steps, south knoll....left side of photo..., to the left of the pick up truck... NOT above the pick-up, as some have pointed out. I am sure nobody else is going to help you on this... this thread will go dead. ..,off course I am self serving". I was told years ago that Tom Wilson had done work on this photo and certified this before he died... as yet I have not seen Tom's work or that his work has not been proven. Jack White said he had looked at it and that he could not see anything there.... case closed.

P.S. I believe in this young generation... I believe they can get to the bottom of this..., if they are allowed.. All of us old farts will soon be gone soon... perhaps we can leave something behind that at least smells and rings of truth. I have faith.., they have good noses and good values .., in spite of what this generation say about them.

January 24, 2008

Could someone post pictures of the South Knoll where Tosh says he was under a tree during the assassination? I believe I had those photos before, but they were on a hard drive that went bad.
Kathy Collins

January 24, 2008

Could someone post pictures of the South Knoll where Tosh says he was under a tree during the assassination? I believe I had those photos before, but they were on a hard drive that went bad.
Kathy Collins

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JAMESdealey.htm

Kathy this is an overhead which was posted a few years ago on this forum.... you might like to put "South Knoll" in the Education Forums search engine. You will find that this area or research is a "NO NO". and does not fit into the norm of research. There are other pictures which show the south side of the plaza and the "Forked Tree" shadow where Sergio and I were located at the time of the shots. However, some years ago when I told and pointed out the location of where Serigo and I were standing... that location was soon moved by some posting on this forum and it was said I could not be found in any of the photos and at that point the thread went into "Never-Never" land... It did not fit with the norm and popular views as to the assassination. The FULL uncrop Cancellaro (sp) was posted for a brief time but it two was lost to time... Peter Lemkin, Jim Mars, and Tim Carroll had detail drawings as to this location... but they too got bushwacked and their investigation turn away from this location of the '"outh Knoll"... I spent hours, years ago, attempting to explain the location only to be told I or nothing was there... Some were not even looking in the right place... You watch little Lady... Its going to happen again if you seem to be interested in this location. Tim Carroll (RIP) did very good research in this direction before he passed away last July. I wish you the best... review the old threads from about Nov 04 and on. and I think you will see what I mean. I am sure you are not going to go far in this direction... the buzards are lining up... their computers are humming and their mouths watering... Its their job... Have Fun.

January 23, 2008

I received an email yesterday before I left on my trip, and was asked if I would repost this because it had been lost to time.

It fits into what has been posted recently. I found it by accident on the internet. I told those people I would re post because they are not members of this forum and have additional information which has been recently declassified and released via FOIA.

Capt. Seiwell was located (about two years ago I was told) and gave an affidavit as to what he can remember about that time frame and 4th Army Intel matters of that time. I am in process of obtaining a certified copy of that interview and will post it if and when I receive. I will be in Dallas soon and plan to meet with him... if he is still alive... he is 91 or 92 today.

The following are question I asked and information I had given to forum members.

COPIED EDUCATION FORUM

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/lofivers....php/t5831.html

My notes: AND that person was Capt Edward G Seiwell, Dallas Texas (I was told this was recently confirmed by Capt Seiwell)

January 23, 2008

Moving topic to Political Conspiracies

I apologize I was mis informed as to moving something to another location. I understand now. Dawm M explained this to me... please forgive...

However, what the article does point out is that this type of activity has been going on for years in America and the JFK assassination did not escape this forum of politic under dealings. I will go in Peace.

"... A man doesn't know what he knows until he knows what he doesn't know. Laurence J. Peter...".

"...Speak when you are angry - and you'll make the best speech you'll ever regret. Laurence J. Peter...".

January 23, 2008

Every morning when I open The Education Forum, I pause and think, maybe there has been something new overnight. Maybe someone has come forward with solid, irrefutable evidence. New documents have been found. Is this even possible? Will anything change about what is written down as the official version of what happened on that fateful day? As each day/year passes, it becomes less likely. I am of the opinion that history will record that a nut who supported Castro shot the president, or even that Castro had it done. I believe as Secretary of War Stanton said at the passing of Lincoln, "He now belongs to the Ages". I do not think that the Government of the United States will ever have the facts revealed. After all, as a consolation for his slaughter, they did allow him to have the title "Camelot". The final chapter has been written (officially).

Very well said, Terry... very well said. If someone did come forward they would perhaps be shot or ran over by a truck.

However, age will be be the master. He who controls the thoughts writes the history.... this history has been written and filed away with those who have left us....

January 23, 2008

Moving topic to Political Conspiracies

Threads of this type of government lies can be found running all through the JFK assassination investugations... lies, lies and corruption...cover-up.

TWO BIRDS IN THE SAME NEST.... LETS THROW ONE OF THEM OUT.... THE MO FOUND IN THIS ARTICLE IS THE SAME AS THE JFK INVESTIGATIONS. ITS BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS. NONE THE LESS.. DON"T DARE TAKE OFF OUR BLINDERS ...SOME OF US MIGHT SEE SOMETHING WE DO NOT LIKE.

WAKE UP AMERICA. WE GET THE GOVERNMENT WE DESERVE. APATHY IS THE STARTING POINT TO LAUNCH GOVERNMENT MISDEEDS AND LIES. I LOVE AMERICA. I WISH I COULD DO SOMETHING TO SAVE HER.

January 23, 2008

NOTE: I feel the following article which appeared today is appro for this Forum and at this location.
It shows that this has been going on far to long in AMERICA.... IT HAPPENED IN WATERGATE, THE 60's, 70's AND con't TODAY

THE MAIN THRUST IT HAPPENED IN THE 63 DEATH AND INVESTIGATIONS of JFK SAME TYPE of MO... I FEEL THIS IS A FORM ...., OF WELL YOU KNOW THE WORD: LIES from HIGH PLACES.... IT HAPPEN WITH THE DEATH OF COL JAMES E SABOW UNITED STATES MARINE CORP AND OTHERS. BUT SOME DN NOT WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT OR READ THIS ARTICLE.

Hundreds of lies led to war, study says

2 journalism groups find U.S. made 935 false statements

Douglass K. Daniel, Associated Press

Wednesday, January 23, 2008

(01-23) 04:00 PST Washington - --

A study by two nonprofit journalism organizations found that President Bush and top administration officials issued hundreds of false statements about the national security threat from Iraq in the two years following the 2001 terrorist attacks.

The study concluded that the statements "were part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses."

The study was posted Tuesday on the Web site of the Center for Public Integrity, which worked with the Fund for Independence in Journalism.

White House spokesman Scott Stanzel did not comment on the merits of the study Tuesday night but reiterated the administration's position that the world community viewed Iraq's leader, Saddam Hussein, as a threat.

"The actions taken in 2003 were based on the collective judgment of intelligence agencies around the world," Stanzel said.

The Center for Public Integrity, a research group that focuses on ethics in government and public policy, designed the new Web site to allow simple searches for specific phrases, such as "mushroom cloud" or "yellowcake uranium," in transcripts and documents totaling some 380,000 words, including remarks by President Bush and most of his top advisers in the two years after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

The study counted 935 false statements in the two-year period. It found that in speeches, briefings, interviews and other venues, Bush and administration officials stated unequivocally on at least 532 occasions that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or was trying to produce or obtain them, or had links to al Qaeda, or both.

"It is now beyond dispute that Iraq did not possess any weapons of mass destruction or have meaningful ties to al Qaeda," according to Charles Lewis and Mark Reading-Smith of the Fund for Independence in Journalism, writing an overview of the study. "In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003."

Named in the study along with Bush were top officials of the administration during the period studied: Vice President Dick Cheney, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and White House press secretaries Ari Fleischer and Scott McClellan.

Bush led with 259 false statements, 231 about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and 28 about Iraq's links to al Qaeda, the study found. That was second only to Powell's 244 false statements about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and 10 about Iraq and al Qaeda.

The center said the study was based on a database created with public statements over the two years beginning on Sept. 11, 2001, and information from more than 25 government reports, books, articles, speeches and interviews.

"The cumulative effect of these false statements - amplified by thousands of news stories and broadcasts - was massive, with the media coverage creating an almost impenetrable din for several critical months in the run-up to war," the study concluded.

"Some journalists - indeed, even some entire news organizations - have since acknowledged that their coverage during those prewar months was far too deferential and uncritical. These mea culpas notwithstanding, much of the wall-to-wall media coverage provided additional, 'independent' validation of the Bush administration's false statements about Iraq," it said.

There is no startling new information in the archive, because all the documents have been published previously. But the new computer tool is remarkable for its scope and its replay of the crescendo of statements that led to the war. Muckrakers may find browsing the site reminiscent of what Richard Nixon used to dismissively call "wallowing in Watergate."

Online resources

Center for Public Integrity:

www.publicintegrity.org

Fund for Independence in Journalism:

www.tfij.org/

January 23, 2008

Hundreds of lies led to war, study says

2 journalism groups find U.S. made 935 false statements

Douglass K. Daniel, Associated Press

Wednesday, January 23, 2008

(01-23) 04:00 PST Washington - --

A study by two nonprofit journalism organizations found that President Bush and top administration officials issued hundreds of false statements about the national security threat from Iraq in the two years following the 2001 terrorist attacks.

The study concluded that the statements "were part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses."

The study was posted Tuesday on the Web site of the Center for Public Integrity, which worked with the Fund for Independence in Journalism.

White House spokesman Scott Stanzel did not comment on the merits of the study Tuesday night but reiterated the administration's position that the world community viewed Iraq's leader, Saddam Hussein, as a threat.

"The actions taken in 2003 were based on the collective judgment of intelligence agencies around the world," Stanzel said.

The Center for Public Integrity, a research group that focuses on ethics in government and public policy, designed the new Web site to allow simple searches for specific phrases, such as "mushroom cloud" or "yellowcake uranium," in transcripts and documents totaling some 380,000 words, including remarks by President Bush and most of his top advisers in the two years after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

The study counted 935 false statements in the two-year period. It found that in speeches, briefings, interviews and other venues, Bush and administration officials stated unequivocally on at least 532 occasions that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or was trying to produce or obtain them, or had links to al Qaeda, or both.

"It is now beyond dispute that Iraq did not possess any weapons of mass destruction or have meaningful ties to al Qaeda," according to Charles Lewis and Mark Reading-Smith of the Fund for Independence in Journalism, writing an overview of the study. "In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003."

Named in the study along with Bush were top officials of the administration during the period studied: Vice President Dick Cheney, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and White House press secretaries Ari Fleischer and Scott McClellan.

Bush led with 259 false statements, 231 about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and 28 about Iraq's links to al Qaeda, the study found. That was second only to Powell's 244 false statements about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and 10 about Iraq and al Qaeda.

The center said the study was based on a database created with public statements over the two years beginning on Sept. 11, 2001, and information from more than 25 government reports, books, articles, speeches and interviews.

"The cumulative effect of these false statements - amplified by thousands of news stories and broadcasts - was massive, with the media coverage creating an almost impenetrable din for several critical months in the run-up to war," the study concluded.

"Some journalists - indeed, even some entire news organizations - have since acknowledged that their coverage during those prewar months was far too deferential and uncritical. These mea culpas notwithstanding, much of the wall-to-wall media coverage provided additional, 'independent' validation of the Bush administration's false statements about Iraq," it said.

There is no startling new information in the archive, because all the documents have been published previously. But the new computer tool is remarkable for its scope and its replay of the crescendo of statements that led to the war. Muckrakers may find browsing the site reminiscent of what Richard Nixon used to dismissively call "wallowing in Watergate."

Online resources

Center for Public Integrity:

www.publicintegrity.org

Fund for Independence in Journalism:

www.tfij.org/

January 22, 2008

I have been asked many questions and told why I could not have done what I claim. Starting with the military. Then Cuba, Then JFK, then Contra, Then the Drug War. I can't get past #1

So all I can say is "Read my Book". "Deep Cover Shallow Graves" sch for release in late Oct. now some can say "OH this is publicity for his book"... thats the stacked game... can't win against the house... why try?

I. How did Plumlee get into the National Guard at 14 while on 4 years federal probation?

2. How did he get into the regular army at 16?

3. How did he obtain the Rank of CPL at 17?

4. How did he qualifie for the GI Bill in 1955 at 18?

5. How did he get in to the Army Researve and keep his grade of Cpl.

6. How did he obtain an MOS of 006 and then less than 4 months have the MOS of 1795 a Tank Crewman.

7. How did Plumlee get "service connected" for 100% VA disability benefits.

8. How did Plumlee go to work for a CIA companies in 1956 in Miami?

9. How did he know John Roselli, John Martino, Tony Varon, Bill Harvey, and Tracy Barnes and a host of others.?.

I know. He, Plumlee, faked it all. And he lied and manipulate all the Federal agencies, FBI, CIA, DoJ, DIA ,and the Pentagon, Congress and the Senate of the United States, as well as the Mafia and later the DEA... Not bad for a 14 year old with an IQ of only 82 according to FBI reports of the time...He did all this and more with no help from anyone CIA- Military Intel- or US Government, Mafia and DEA. No wait a minute... He did none of this Its all BS Black is White... White is Black... and there is nothing out there which proves anything he has said.

You buy that and I'll sell you the London Bridge

Now its time to get on the Merry go Round and someone ask me " Do you have anything to back up what you claim... you know your military service ... you know your VA service connection for disability... you know?... any documents, letters, reports, anything? Mr Plumlee embellishes his stories and cannot be believed. Some of you, not all, have NO clue how that game was played and is being played today. I'm sorry if I offend some... but I too, am tired of being offended. I do not mind being investigated but lets do it in a professional arena and I'll do my best to help...

January 22, 2008

Reply to those " Wantabees" who want to keep this "debate??" going.....

"...Sir I respect your tours of duty (if any) and your military lineage. And I respect your opinions of me. If it makes you feel better to slam me and infer I am a xxxx and have never done or been what I say..., then that is O.K. too. I am not here to prove anything to you. However, for you to talk about medals, law, and the likes and apply all that to establish your self serving maner as fact so as to cover your false observations about something you know nothing about, is the mark of a very stupid man.

I could question your motives and I too could get into a pisxxing match with you on various matters... but you would not comprehend and would keep rattling about matters you know nothing about...... I will not justified my existence to you or anybody... so you keep on turning and churning and calling "white black" and "black white" the likes.... It makes no difference to me.

Sir I don't give a damn who you are or what you think you know, or What you think you are in your own eyes ..... I do not care what you post and I care less about the information feed to you by those who hide behind their BS and get people like you to wash their dirty linen to cover their tracks and lies. I do know them and too, I know their motives..... Your nose is so brown I can see it from here. I know your type; a hanger on from another planet I believe. Less than a "Wantabee"

If you have something to say to me then say it straight out in one complete sentence. You do not have to back it up.., just say it..... I respect your views, but being the type person you are, I do not expect you to respect me or my life. So be it.

You go on and suck up this space and others time with your views and your so called expertise and self serving manner. That is ok with me. But if you have to do it... do it professional. Better yet I will say it for you...

I'm full of Crap.. (Oh you said that) I have never done the things I have said and proven... OH Yes, You Said That. I did not prove anything its all lies and fabrications in your view. Right? OH you said that or implied that.... You have established your point.

Now would you care to contribute constructively to the research of this Forum and its search for the truth of the JFK assassination?.. Would you care to record your views pro and con and put them out their for others to review and question you on?. Do you have an opinion about this case and can you contribute something factual and constructive perhaps even documented, one way or the other?.... or are you just the type that does not have an opinion?... You have an opinion about me and go to pains to express it.... Can you go through that same 'pain" and time, to put your thoughts down on this subject for the members of this forum to evaluate? I think not...its easier to slam me and others and create a false illusion of smoke and mirrors. I have wasted enough time with the likes of you.... I have to move on... you have shown me nothing. When it comes to OPS your less than nothing... and so is your friend...

I will continue to be of what help I can for the members of this forum... and you too, if you would let me... If I can be of no help in your view, then thats ok also....

I told someone I would come back on this forum because I was asked.... Its some like you who like to suck the air and pull us away into a never never land.. Well I will not go with you. I know who is leading you and why.

I would like to go forward with meaningfull reaearch instead of this back and forth crap... I know? I will noy answer the hard questions as you say... but some still want me to continue my ramble and BS... You have made your point..... but I do not think you have destoried my credibility regardless how hard you have tried... I can bring it all together, I assure you... once I get past you clowns and those other "Gatekeepers", who have to protect their lies and falsehoods at the expense of good honest researchers and people.

Sign In

William Plumlee

Posts

Joined

Last visited

Content Type

Profiles

Forums

Events

Store

Posts posted by William Plumlee

Questions

Gerry P. Hemming

Trafficante Testimony Released

Trafficante Testimony Released

John Roselli and Robert Plumlee

John Roselli and Robert Plumlee

JFK Forum: Rules of Behaviour and other points

Declassified military file

Declassified military file

Declassified military file

I Feel History is about to repeat itself

Declassified military file

Kerry Committee Hearings

Anything New?

Not a JFK Debate Forum Anymore

Not a JFK Debate Forum Anymore

Not a JFK Debate Forum Anymore

Fourth Army Reserve Dallas Love Field

The Bush Administration's Private War

Anything New?

The Bush Administration's Private War

The Bush Administration's Private War

The Bush Administration's Private War

How Did This Happen

Lost reply

Browse

Activity

Support

Store